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Rumsfeld Under Fire  
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

I thought about starting this thread last night when I saw a clip on CNN of several retired US Generals (2 Army, 1 Marine) blasting Dumsfeld and his antics in the Pentagon.

Glad I didn't - more info available today.

I watched a 4th US Army retired 4 Star on "The Situation Room" on CNN discuss Rumsfeld's current position as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/10/newbold.iraq.tm/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/11/rumsfeld.iraq/index.html

I can't find a clip of Gen Joulwan's commentary on The Situation Room, but I'm sure it'll be available soon.

I can say - now - I told you so. Even before I left DC in 2001, the Pentagon was in turmoil over the SecDefs autocratic, dictatorial management. Gen Shinseki was all but run off from the Pentagon because he dared to share a different opinion about the direction of the Army. Dumsfeld so heavily brow beat senior leadership in the Pentagon that no one - not one single Active Duty 4 Star - would take the job when Shinseki left. Had to bring a man out of retirement.

I've said it before - I'm saying it again: Rumsfeld must go.

I can only hope this is the beginning of the end of this Secretary of Defense.

90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

Looking at the title of the thread, I thought maybe he was out hunting with the VP.  Big grin

User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
I've said it before - I'm saying it again: Rumsfeld must go.

 checkmark 
That man is the second worst thing to happen to the US military in the two administrations.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1840 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2):
That man is the second worst thing to happen to the US military in the two administrations.

Jeez. who topped him, in your estimation?


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Jeez. who topped him, in your estimation?

The man who gave RIF a whole new meaning, President Clinton.

... Just noticed that I left out the word "last" from my previous post by accident... it should read, "in the last two administrations"


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 4):
The man who gave RIF a whole new meaning, President Clinton.

Oh, I should have guessed.  sarcastic 


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
Oh, I should have guessed.

Are you going to try and deny that Mr. Clinton slaughtered the US military?

That aside, I've very rarely commented here on my opinion of other facets of his administration so I find it hard to believe that you could guess much about my thoughts in that regard.

Alas we sidetrack... but since we three all seem to be in agreement that Rumsfeld needs a footwear induced trip to the curb, we will have to wait for a Rumsfeld supporter to chime in before getting back on track.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 4):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Jeez. who topped him, in your estimation?

The man who gave RIF a whole new meaning, President Clinton.

Well, Falcon my friend - there is a point here.

Let me expound on his estimation:

The worst SecDef in my adult lifetime: Donald Rumsfeld.

The largest RIF of the Military in my adult lifetime, the sitting PotUS: Bill Clinton.

Bush 1 started it, I know - Clinton accelerated it. Now, my friend, we pay the heavy, heavy price.

Regardless - Rummy has to go. Period.


User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

Here is another article where JSC Gen. Pace defends Rummy. Just for argumental reasons.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/11/rumsfeld.iraq/index.html
That being posted, I agree %100 with Newbold, this has been a failure at the highest levels of government and that the troops have done a great job for the most part, despite being put into a most difficult situation, for Bush, Rummy and Condi to minimize thier roles in the mishaps is tragic IMHO.
My question is, if he goes...who takes over? I know the Powell wasnt really interested in the job of SecDef, but how much would he have done differently? Especially with combat experience which Rumsfeld never had IIRC, I know he was a navy pilot, but in between Korea and Vietnam.
What I see in this administration is an eagerness to put troops in harms way, when they werent willing to do the same themselves. I dont think combat experience should be needed for a PoTUS, but between SecDef, VP and PoTUS, one of them should have seen thier buddies get hurt before they send folks in, especially under false pretenses.


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Poor Henry Kissinger II. How do you guys think this'll end up?


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 6):

Are you going to try and deny that Mr. Clinton slaughtered the US military?

Talk about being overly dramatic, that's it.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

I posted that bit from Gen Pace above. Pace is doing exactly what he needs to do to keep his job . . . .

Interesting note here: All these retired Generals that are now speaking out are doing so only now because of the law. They are still bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice for a time after separation from the military. Furthermore, they have friends and associates in the Pentagon that they have to protect as well . . .

If Rummy were to get replaced it'd be a hard call as to his successor. No one I can think of at the moment makes me happy. Colin Powell of course, but he burned his bridges. Besides, why would be want to be SecDef having been SecState already?

No one else comes to mind. And ANYONE could be a failure, especially if selected by PotUS . . . he has proven less than stellar in his staff selections in some cases . . .


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter):
I've said it before - I'm saying it again: Rumsfeld must go.

Agreed 100%. Saw Ann Coulter once on Fox stating that Rumsfield was the greatest SOD in the history of the USA. I almost threw up my dinner.

In my humble opinion, he has seriously harmed the military with his management style, (its my way or the highway). Iraq is a perfect example of a mess. I recalled staff asking for more soliders, and he refused the request, and the rest is history.


User currently offlineBoeingfanyyz From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

When has Rumsfield, or any other member of the Bush administration, not been under fire!? Espccially Cheney, quite literally (think about it!!!)

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 



"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Ive got just the man for the job! I am sure most of my right winged counter parts will love this one.


Think about it, knows his way around DC, combat vetran, and actually has an exit plan. Much better than I can say for the top three dudes going for us now.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
Talk about being overly dramatic, that's it.

Sorry, but I know a lot of good people who very suddenly found themselves at the end of their careers.

The RIFs could have been handled in a much better manner, namely allowing natural contraction of numbers by lowering recruitment levels... instead of axeing whole units in place.


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 14):
Ive got just the man for the job! I am sure most of my right winged counter parts will love this one.

I thought Dave Thomas was dead?




"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Couldn't agree more, Rummy should have been gone long long ago.

Bush inherited a depleted military, and Rumsfeld has done his best to force a square peg in a round hole despite the "guys in the field" whom Bush oft refers request for more.



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Good thread ANC. Many high level officials have been saying this for quite sometime. You know as well my distaste for Rumsfeld from previous threads I've posted.

On a sidenote, it was the army that Clinton created that won the war Afghanistan and the initial round of combat in Iraq.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 16):
I thought Dave Thomas was dead?

He is, his genetic mutated clone though is Rep. John Murtha D Penn.


User currently offlineJamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1773 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
On a sidenote, it was the army that Clinton created that won the war Afghanistan and the initial round of combat in Iraq.

One could argue that those occured in spite of what was "created" rather than because of.



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1762 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
Good thread ANC. Many high level officials have been saying this for quite sometime. You know as well my distaste for Rumsfeld from previous threads I've posted.

On this issue TBar we unequivocally agree . . . always have.

Top Brass in the Five Sided Funny Farm have bailed out on careers because of Rummy. In this single aspect - the Vietnam era is replaying itself right on the shores ofthe Potomac. Civilian Leadership (read that : Rumsfeld) is not, will not, cannot listen to Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines trained in the Operational Art of War and it's continuing to cost us gravely.

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 20):
Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
On a sidenote, it was the army that Clinton created that won the war Afghanistan and the initial round of combat in Iraq.

One could argue that those occured in spite of what was "created" rather than because of.

I would agree with your assessment James . . . the US Military, in it's current form - that is post Clinton era drawdowns - is great out of the gate, but has no staying power. It's too damned small, stretched too thin, and inadequately equipped. And the fault begins with Bush 1, accelerates with with Clinton and continues with Bush 2.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1754 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 6):
we will have to wait for a Rumsfeld supporter to chime in before getting back on track.

Are there any such creatures, even among the hardcore Bush supporters?

No matter what you think of Bush, Rumsfield's arrogance has been an issue from day one. While reports similar to those posted above, from civilians and lower level military brass, have been appearing almost since the beginning, at last there are some truly top level brass in positions to expose the situation. I only hope that Bush's demonstrated blind loyalty doesn't lead him to categorically dismiss it all.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

More  redflag  from Rummy . . .

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...2006-04-11-rumsfeld-rebuttal_x.htm

"He never raised an issue publicly or privately when he was here that I know of," said Rumsfeld. "An awful lot of people around here were not shy about giving their views. ... But in terms of why he would come up with this now, I just can't speak to that."

I can speak to it . . . the answer is simple: Lt Gen Newbold didn't want to have his ass handed to him and be forced to retire like SHinseki and a dozen others . . . that's the answer to that.

I watched Gen Joulwan yesterday on CNN (The Situation Room) where he made this comment (paraphrasing), "We need more Generals to stand up and take issue with this Secretary of Defense. Plenty of junior soldiers already do, but if you're a general, you ought to act like it". Very well said IMO.

Having been stationed at the Five Sided Funny Farm I can assure you it's nothing more than a politicians haven . . . very few REAL soldiers there.

Occasionally, you'll see Brigadier General David Grange on CNN. He retired as a one star, although - he once wore two stars! Now there is a top notch general. Why one star now??? Well, it's like this. He was the Division Commander (I believe it was the 82nd) as a 2 star, but was a junior 2 star. Once his command time had expired, he was told he would be transferred to the Pentagon. He refused the assignment stating, as I have, that it's not the real Army in the Pentagon. He wanted to stay with the troops. He was summarily retired. Since he hadn't held the 2 star rank for the prescribed minimum time, he was reduced in rank to a single star upon retirement.

Quite a shame that our DoD (my Army) allows that crap. Rummy could have stopped that too, but he didn't.


Gen Peter Pace, C-JCS, said, ""We have sufficient personnel, weapons, equipment, you name it, to handle any adversary that might come along," he said.

IMO - utter nonsense. Standing next to Rummy today (yesterday actually), defending his boss. Honorable to defend your boss - but only if he's right. I've lost a great degree of respect for Pace.

Rumsfeld needs to go!


User currently offlineItsjustme From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2768 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

OK, I'll say it...by allowing this obviously inept person to keep his position, isn't the Commander In Chief just as much to blame as Mr. Rumsfeld?

25 ANCFlyer : Yes.
26 HatTrick : I can hear it now: "You're doing a heckuva job Rummie!"
27 Sv7887 : How about Robert McNamara? Rumsfeld almost seems like a clone of this fellow -Sam
28 ANCFlyer : I did say "in my adult lifetime". Macnamara, according to my Father, was the worst he's ever seen . . . I believe you're right, Rummy is a clone, ver
29 Bushpilot : Just for debate reasons...what are anyones thoughts on the job Cheney did as SecDef? Speaking in terms of non-political, during his time in the Bush 4
30 ANCFlyer : He did fine - better than fine. He listened to what Powell and Schwartzkopf had to say, generally went with their decisions from a militarily tactica
31 Post contains links and images Confuscius : Add another one... http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/13/iraq.rumsfeld/index.html BTW, Rumsfield has tendered his resignation twice but... Hmmm.... A
32 Bushpilot : But the idiot in charge didnt accept it and told him he was going ahelluva job!
33 Post contains links ANCFlyer : More on Rummy: A friend sent me this . . . another good read. More on Dumsfeld. http://www.slate.com/id/2139777/?nav=tap3 Yes he has, over a year ago,
34 11Bravo : That is all starting to sound a lot like the conflict between the military and the White House that surfaced during the last years of the Vietnam War
35 Bushpilot : I think this is the crux of the problem. Man did the invasion go well for our military, because that is what they train and are equipped to do. We ca
36 Post contains links ANCFlyer : And another . . . MG Swannick, former 82nd Airborne Division Commander calls for Rumsfeld to depart the AO. http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/13/ira
37 Post contains links ANCFlyer : From AOL: http://articles.news.aol.com/news/ar...0060413175009990004&_ccc=1&cid=842
38 Post contains links Mir : NY Times article on the subject today: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/14/washington/14military.html -Mir
39 DL021 : OK...I'll go in now with an opinion. With open rebellion amongst a group of normally quiet people (retired generals) who are loath to open up unless t
40 11Bravo : To suggest that the draft amnesty or Aspin's lethargy are even remotely in the same league as the Rumsfeld's deeply flawed Iraq policy and ineptness
41 Post contains images Texan : Are you suggesting that if we were somehow able to lower the fire a little bit he would be incinerated?!? Give me the tongs and fire poker! Texan
42 Maury : OK...40-odd replies (some quite odd, heh) and now it's time to ask: who's next? Let's say Rummy goes--are there any good candidates to replace him, or
43 11Bravo : I think he's gone this time. If he isn't this dissent will only get worse. I just don't see how Bush can keep him now. As for a replacement, that's a
44 Post contains links and images Confuscius : Update: Bush: Rumsfeld 'exactly what is needed' http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/14/iraq.rumsfeld/index.html "He's also the one who ran over everyb
45 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Agreed, the Brigade Combat Teams are the way to go . . . although the idea isn't Rumsfeld's, he simply perpetuated it and directed it become reality.
46 Bushpilot : I have the perfect one...TOM CLANCY! Think about it, already a military insider, who has shown he can listen to soldiers and brass alike, at the end
47 Confuscius : Current score: 6 - 2 Against: Maj. Gen. John Batiste (USA) Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold (USMC) Maj. Gen. John Riggs (USA) Gen. Anthony Zinni (USMC) Maj. G
48 TPASXM787 : This is absolutely true. The problem with (most) sec def is they don't call it like it is. It's a political position, and that's how they act. Wars a
49 GDB : Was McNamara's micromanagement really just about Vietnam? If so, couldn't LBJ have been the one insisting on it? Because he would always be very aware
50 Bushpilot : You should watch the movie "Fog of War", it is an interview with McNamara, I had a few found respect for him after watching it. In WWII he was an Air
51 Post contains links Bushpilot : More on Dummy, seems a GITMO abuse case was under his blessing. It is a yahoo link from a Salon.com story. I dont vouch for its credibility, but just
52 ANCFlyer : Add a non-committed: Immediate past Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: Gen Richard Meyer. He made comment today, but made no comment regarding wh
53 L-188 : Yup. The McNamara story I remember is the one where he threw a tempertantrum on some runway in Vietnam. Apparently the Marines where on one side and
54 DL021 : First off...calling him "Dumsfeld" does nothing to legitimize arguments because he's obviously very smart and it doesn't help to make an incorrect ins
55 ANCFlyer : I rather thought that would have happened when Shinseki was fired . . . a dozen three stars and half dozen four stars simply quit rather than stay on
56 DL021 : The idea of eliminating tanks was floated but I don't think it was ever seriously going to move forward. The idea of transitioning heavy divisions to
57 L-188 : Hell I am still critical of the decision during the 1st drawdown to get rid off all of the light infantry divisions. I to this day will never underst
58 GDB : Bushpilot, indeed I have seen 'Fog Of War'. Fascinating stuff, like it or not, McNamara in his old age, with all that experience behind him, makes tel
59 L-188 : South Korea also. Disagree. The NA provided the troops, and the US gave them something they had never had before-precision air power. A few dozen SF
60 SATX : If they're equally to blame then why you do you repeatedly bash Rumsfeld but not Bush? It's just an honest question hoping for an honest answer. The
61 SFOMEX : Indeed. I am not familiar with the military, but I have a cousin serving in Iraq and some friends with a long family history of service in the Armed
62 ANCFlyer : Honest answer to an honest question: Bush has fucked the dog where Rumsfeld is concerned. I've stated that before SATX, Bush needs to replace him. Ac
63 Luv2fly : Well for what its worth Bush also stood behind Michael Brown, and we all now what that was worth in the end.
64 LTBEWR : Where the problem seems to be is that Rumsfeld would not take the advice of the Generals as to our ability to go into Iraq and occupy it or pass it al
65 ANCFlyer : Source please? I have not heard one General say that; I have not heard Rumsfeld say that. In all fairness to the current goatrope in the Pentagon, th
66 Confuscius : "When was Rumsfeld ever a "good soldier". He was an Air Force Reserve pilot, not a soldier." Birds of a feather... Hmmm.....
67 11Bravo : ..., and might I remind you that Bush and Rumsfeld are responsible for the deaths of 2,376 US military personnel in Iraq because they did NOT heed th
68 Gilligan : Why, with no campaign to run, would Bush care what others say? Especially when that person knows that they will be looking for a new job in 2009. Hey
69 Halls120 : As bad as Rumsfeld may or may not be - the spectacle of retired generals- egged on by active duty officers, according to some reports - is the more t
70 Post contains images B777-700 : And, as is common knowledge, when you attack Bush, you attack America. So the real questions are, why do these generals hate America? Why do they sup
71 Halls120 : LOL, you do like to take things out of context, don/t you? I'm not suggesting for a second they don't have the right to oppose the war. However, if t
72 ANCFlyer : No question. But any leadership that can cause this type of dissention among very senior officers has to be questioned . . . Damn skippy it's trouble
73 Post contains images B777-700 : I think I've been watching too much Colbert.
74 Halls120 : Sure it does. And we all had the opportunity to resolve that question in 2004. I don't believe these generals are out to "get" Bush. If they are, the
75 ANCFlyer : Is it not the responsibility of leaders to point out flaws and seek redress when they identifiy the problems? They carried out their orders - having
76 Halls120 : Yes, it is their responsibility. I'm not saying they shouldn't be speaking up. I want retired military officers to speak up. But as I've said before,
77 ANCFlyer : I understand . . . I respectfully disagree. Bush keeps his hands off the Pentagon. What the hell dose he know of warfighting? He lets Rumsfeld have a
78 Post contains images Confuscius : "...I broke bones, bled alot, and froze my ass off frequently to be able to wear my black beret." Gilligan, lighten up little buddy.
79 Post contains images Gilligan : Not when it comes to my black beret.
80 Post contains links ANCFlyer : CNN article I just found. http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/16/rumsfeld/index.html In defense of Rumsfeld's position.
81 Post contains links ANCFlyer : NY Times article - expounds on the 1 page memo released by the Pentagon. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/wa...200&en=896f347f84c90b7e&ei=5087%0A Ano
82 NWOrientDC10 : When egos clash, it certainly makes the news. I guess wannabes have to have their fifteen minutes of fame too. Russell
83 Halls120 : Here is an excerpt from today's WSJ editorial that I agree with completely.
84 ANCFlyer : Great post Halls . . . don't mistake my disdain for Rumsfeld as a call to eliminate civilian leadership. The Founding Fathers got many things right wh
85 Halls120 : I would never suggest that your dislike for Rumsfeld personally was anything other than just that. The democrats I understand. This is politics, and
86 DL021 : One more thing....I've voiced my opinion that Rumsfeld should go, but there is this..... If President Bush decides Rumsfeld stays then Rummy gets my s
87 Post contains links and images Confuscius : Update: Current score: 6 - 6 Rumsfeld just rallied to tie the score.  (Rumsfeld ahead in tiebreaker: 17 - 15 Stars) http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/
88 Post contains links ANCFlyer : Today was a "Meeting of the Generals". Not much was said as far as the current issues with Rumsfeld. That's not unusual for this type of meeting. Howe
89 Post contains images SATX : No wonder you're so happy with the current administration. Whenever they go against your view, you just put it out of your mind, pucker up and kiss t
90 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : I've had a few days to ponder on this subject and have realized this: I, as a private citizen, am not really in a position to criticize (or praise for
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