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Scotland And The Four Nations Of Britain  
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2650 times:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/nations/four_nations_01.shtml

Just found this article, and it makes for an interesting read.
Your thoughts?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

Pile of steaming cack.

There are five distinctive nations of Britain  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 1):
Pile of steaming cack.

There are five distinctive nations of Britain Wink

Och, I was hoping this could at least stay a serious topic for at least 20 replies  Yeah sure
Oh well  Sad
 Wink



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 2):
Och, I was hoping this could at least stay a serious topic for at least 20 replies

I am serious  grumpy 

Anyway I can see a distinct irony in that remark of yours  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2621 times:

Anywya, in all seriousness, it's quite a well written piece and has enlightened me about a few things which I didn't know about my bonnie country  Smile


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2603 times:

The mistake that some folks in Scotland made a number of times was enlisting the aid of the French against Englishmen. That almost always turns out badly.

Of course, the american revolution was a continuation of the war between France and Britain, and I'm figuring the only reason Farmer George wasn't interested in a real fight was he had other things on his mind, America was a howling wilderness (some say it still is) inhabited by trolls (still is some say), and Texas hadn't been invented yet.

 stirthepot   stirthepot   stirthepot 


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2600 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 5):
The mistake that some folks in Scotland made a number of times was enlisting the aid of the French against Englishmen. That almost always turns out badly.

Indeed, that is quite embarrassing  embarrassed 



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4532 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2600 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 5):

Nice Scottish touch to your post there Dougloid: MacBeth's three witches.



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
interesting

well, and what, in percentage-points, are the shares of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern-Ireland in the population of Great Britain ?


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2539 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
Scotland And The Four Nations Of Britain

Why would anyone write a title that only mentions the least important nation of the four?   

Anyway, it's wrong. There are only three nations in Britain.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
well, and what, in percentage-points, are the shares of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern-Ireland in the population of Great Britain ?

Well, the total population is 60 million, of which (roughly - from memory) the English comprise 50 million, the Scots 5 million, the Welsh 3 1/2 million, and the Northerm Irish 1 1/2 million.

Which would work out as:

English 83%
Scots 8%
Welsh 6%
Northern Irish 2.5%

BUT (and a big but) this is based on the populations of the constituent countries. Many of those in England are not necessarily English. England is the country which has by far the highest proportion of immigrants and assimilated peoples, and the point here is that "British" is an inclusive term much, much more than English, Scottish, Welsh and so on. So, a fairly sizeable minority of those living in England would call themselves British, but not necessarily English - and that's before you include Scots, Welsh and Irish living here.

[Edited 2006-04-13 21:06:42]


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

And FWIW, there are over 45 million Scots living around the world outside of Scotland.
Including that numpty Sean Connery, who recently said he would never live in Scotland again, despite calling himself a patriot  Yeah sure



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):
And FWIW, there are over 45 million Scots living around the world outside of Scotland.

The sensible ones  Wink



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):
there are over 45 million Scots living around the world

And every one of them should be Hung, Drawn and Quatered...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineBa757gla From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

i do hate narrow minded scots who dont care about England!!! im scottish i would happily support england football team

User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 10):
There are only three nations in Britain.

Then give NI back to the irish government.  Wink

Quoting Banco (Reply 10):
English 83%
Scots 8%

The landscape must be kept in mind. The terrain in most of scotland is a lot rougher and inhospitable than most of england.

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 14):
i do hate narrow minded scots who dont care about England!!!

Sadly there's many of them, many who think Scotland is the best country in the world and the rest are inferior.

Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 13):
And every one of them should be Hung, Drawn and Quatered...

Just like yourself then?

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 14):
i do hate narrow minded scots who dont care about England!!! im scottish i would happily support england football team

Let me guess, you're a Rangers fan?  Yeah sure



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 8):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 5):
The mistake that some folks in Scotland made a number of times was enlisting the aid of the French against Englishmen. That almost always turns out badly.

Indeed, who wants to fight on a battlefield cluttered with dropped weapons and soaked in urine?

Just to show you what happens to the French when they're meddling with perfidious Albion there, they went to bat, bankrolled the US, independence, 1776, everything's great, zees estoopid Engleesh, what happens in 1804? We buy Louisiana for pennies on the dollar....heh heh heh even though it is under water half the time.


 stirthepot   stirthepot   stirthepot 


User currently offlineIAH777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 0 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 17):
Just to show you what happens to the French when they're meddling with perfidious Albion there, they went to bat, bankrolled the US, independence, 1776, everything's great, zees estoopid Engleesh, what happens in 1804? We buy Louisiana for pennies on the dollar....heh heh heh even though it is under water half the time

I hear that ex-FEMA Director Brown made some phone calls to Paris right after Katrina hit. Word is he was offering to trade LA back for a baguette and a wedge of Port Salut.  biggrin 


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Quoting Banco (Reply 10):
English 83%
Scots 8%
Welsh 6%
Northern Irish 2.5%

BUT (and a big but) this is based on the populations of the constituent countries. Many of those in England are not necessarily English. England is the country which has by far the highest proportion of immigrants and assimilated peoples, and the point here is that "British" is an inclusive term much, much more than English, Scottish, Welsh and so on. So, a fairly sizeable minority of those living in England would call themselves British, but not necessarily English - and that's before you include Scots, Welsh and Irish living here.

As there also are immigrants in Scotland and Wales, their share would not go up much, while the "English" share might go down to 65%. OR, to put it the other way round, it may make Indian or Pakistani MORE important "nationalities" in Britain than the Scots !

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 11):
over 45 million Scots living around the world

well, heard that there is a similar number of "Irish" in the world

[Edited 2006-04-14 13:46:37]

User currently offlineBa757gla From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

im british not scottish

User currently offlineBA747YYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 13):
And every one of them should be Hung, Drawn and Quatered...

And one must wonder with all the great things and people Scotland what has ever come out of your whole of a country (Khazakstan)? Your most famous citizen is Borat!

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
it may make Indian or Pakistani MORE important "nationalities" in Britain than the Scots !

Well certainly more important than the NI, and of course the Welsh


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
well, heard that there is a similar number of "Irish" in the world

It's a "descent" thing. On the same basis, God knows how many "English" there are around the world. It's meaningless.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineVc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2251 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
it may make Indian or Pakistani MORE important "nationalities" in Britain than the Scots !

There are very few Indian or Pakistan people living in the UK, as all immigrants take on the nationality of their new country, whereas the 4 indigenous countries of the UK, England , Wales , Scotland, and northern Ireland are the countries that form the UK so you can be Welsh and British at the same time. You cannot be Indian and British at the same time though  Yeah sure

little vc 10


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 2246 times:

Quoting Vc10 (Reply 23):
You cannot be Indian and British at the same time though

No dual citizenship possible? My daughter is both a Filipino and German citizen.

Jan


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 24):
No dual citizenship possible?

Britain allows dual citizenship. More often than not, it's the other country that doesn't.

But in terms of the "Indian" or "Pakistani" communities, they're British passport holders because it was their parents and grandparents who came here taking British citizenship at the time. Their offspring don't have the choice, and usually not the inclination, to hold another passport. They were born here, have lived here all their lives and so on. Why would they want another country's passport? They're British. I think what you have to understand as a German is that our mass immigration from the sub-continent happened many years before Germany's equivalent from places like Turkey. We're about 25 years ahead of you to a large extent.

But this is where it differs with the three home countries. Being English, Scottish or Welsh is a state of mind as much as anything else, which is why it has a much narrower focused identity than simply "British".

(I leave Northern Ireland out of that, because it opens up a whole new area!)



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
25 ME AVN FAN : "nationality" ? you in fact mean the legal nationality. which is different from personal feelings. A British passport for sure has a higher "travel-v
26 Post contains images Andz : That made me cringe, almost ashamed to admit I'm Scots. I have British and South African citizenship.
27 Vc10 : Can anyone tell me why a nation should allow any of it's nationals to have dual nationality, either you are British etc or you are not little vc10
28 ATCT : Go WALES! Supporting my heritage.
29 Yyz717 : This proves that Britain is effectively synonymous with England. Moreover, when you consider that English is by far the wealthiest of the countries a
30 ME AVN FAN : Simply out of common sense. There are people who change location for "labour" purposes and then really are at home in both countries. There are peopl
31 Scotty : A few points. "Britain" is not a nation. It is an island The UK is made up as a result of an agreement in 1707 between only two signatory nations. Sco
32 Yyz717 : Officially yes, but practically no. England so dominates Britain that England effectively is Britain which is England. Scotland and Wales are relativ
33 Banco : I would doubt even the most one-eyed, patriotic Englishman would think that. Most of us tend to quite like our set-up of having different nations wit
34 Yyz717 : Demographically and economically, that is exactly what Scotland is to the UK. Don't let political correctness get in the way of facts.
35 Banco : A big call from someone on the other side of the Atlantic. How about the FACT that I am English, I am British, and I actually live here unlike someon
36 Yyz717 : No, you're wrong. And it would seem a hothead also. The facts have been stated above: English 83% Scots 8% Clearly, the English outnumber the Scots b
37 Banco : I think I might retain that as one of the most astonishingly arrogant, self-centred and smug posts I've ever seen. You have no idea of my ancestry, a
38 QANTASforever : I don't know how much of that bad Canadian tequila you've been drinking tonight, Yyz717 - but you've been saying some craaaazy things. QFF
39 Yyz717 : Arrogance begets arrogance, doesn't it? Your attempt to dismiss my opinion because I am from overseas is the most astonishingly arrogant comment here
40 QANTASforever : And that has got to be the most astonishingly hypocritical thing you've said all day! You dismiss my opinions of my own country just because I arrive
41 Banco : Oh, so people who aren't white aren't English then? Or are whites more English than non-whites? Is that what you are saying? I think you should clari
42 Yyz717 : The facts are: English 83% Scots 8% Scotland is small and marginalized. Period. ' That seems to be the entire basis of your argument. You seem to be
43 QANTASforever : Yes that's right - go for the messenger as opposed to the message. Nobody doubts your ability to avoid recognising valid points made against you. QFF
44 Banco : Don't chuckle. Answer the question. You made the assertion that you are more English than I am after I pointed out you don't even know my ethnicity w
45 ME AVN FAN : Wrong he may be, but to declare "end of story" unilaterally is completely wrong. I DISapprove whomever declares a discussions to be "end" just out of
46 MD11Engineer : YYZ has a long history of posts telling other people how to run their business. Remember when he told us to stop immigration to Germany, because it w
47 Scotty : Like Canada in North America. You sound very much like one of those types who move across the pond and still think that everything back home is exact
48 QANTASforever : Sheesh. I'm certainly seeing a pattern emerging. His argument is that minorities shouldn't have ANY say. That may be a simple point but I certainly d
49 Yyz717 : I agree. Completely. Canada is as relevant to NA and Scotland is to the UK. Which is fairly minor. Another insult. "He doesn't come here so he does n
50 Post contains images Skidmarks : This lad needs nurturing Whereas the other gentlemen bickering over statistics and percentages need shooting. The Scots may be a very small 8% but a
51 Scotty : Agree to an extent in that the contribution that Scots HAVE made is disproportionately higher than their 8% or whatever should have merited. But they
52 GDB : Scotland 'punching above it weight' was a fact way before Labour took power in 1997-after 18 years of being out of office but having such a large majo
53 Yyz717 : According to who? The higher PCI in England suggests that the English contribute far more to the UK on a per capita basis. Scotland is massively subs
54 Vasu : I also tend to think of it as "The United Kingdom"... I'm British, not English... it says so in my passport! On a sideline, does anyone know why we e
55 ME AVN FAN : if so, it would be wrong, as minorities should be respected anywhere because only the "United Kingdom" is member of the European Council and in Eurov
56 BA747YYZ : Who knows, it is an advantage though, also a creative way to avoid millitary service in certain countries. Scotland has a lot of Oil! All too true
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