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9 Years For A Murder... What A Joke!  
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5697 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1621 times:

"A 19-year-old Turkish man has been jailed for nine years and three months by a German court for shooting his sister in a so-called "honour killing".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4905758.stm

I am not advocating capital punisment, but 9 years for a cold blooded murder seems to be very light sentence. In less than 5 years he's most likely out of jail.
Your thoughts?

BTW, I have no intention to bash German courts because over here (CZ) the sentences are equally ridiculous - one is likely to get heavier sentence for a tax evasion or insurance fraud than for killing someone.

5 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8706 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1610 times:

I have no doubt those who believe in "honour killings" are blaming this "shame" the sentence brings over the family of the murderer on his victim, too.

The sentence of 9 years and three months is slightly below the maximum possible sentence for juvenile offenders. That is the point, someone up to the age of 18 and most offenders up t the ages of 21 are subject to juvenile courts which means a lot of differences; I'm no expert but it's pretty safe to say the main difference is milder sentences.

The real shame is that the murderer's two older brothers were acquitted. Of course they did not actually kill their sister and you can't sentence them for anything they didn't do, but I imagine sentencing them for incitement could have worked and maybe made other "dishonoured" male relatives of Muslim women think twice about "honour killings". But to try and solve the issue, a whole lot more than sentencing offenders needs to be done and changed.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5697 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
The real shame is that the murderer's two older brothers were acquitted. Of course they did not actually kill their sister and you can't sentence them for anything they didn't do

Don't they intentionally choose the youngest kid to perpetrate the honor killing, because he will get out with a very light sentence?


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8447 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

9 years would be considered a long scentence here. All you have to do is claim insanity and you get a few months in house a few months in the asylum and then you're considered rehabilitated.

User currently offlineEuclid From South Africa, joined Apr 2005, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1508 times:

In this country most people that commit murder get off with no sentence because the police just couldn't be assed to actually catch criminals. Those that do appear in court usually gets bail, for amounts as low as R 500 (500 rand), roughly about 80 American dollars. Usually only murderers in high profile cases gets real jail time, in this case meaning they may be only in prison for eight or so years.

Now, in this same country, you will get fined R 1 000 if you own a TV set without a valid TV licence. Hence the joke, if a TV licence inspector comes to your home, kill him. It will save you R 500.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3571 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1491 times:

Germany has two kinds of punishment systems.

The usual system is ordinary punishment system, which has life sentence (for murder and some other crimes), up to 15 years of prison, and fines (based on the income, up to 180 days of income are possible).

However, for more than 100 years we have introduced a special system for young offenders. You always get punished according to the ordinary system when you are above 21 years old. Between 18 and 21 years, it depends on your personal development, if you still seem to act as a person that isn't grown up, you get punished according to the juvenile system.

The juvenile punishment system is appliccable for everybody between 14 and 18, and, as said, can be appliccable to people that are up to 21 years old. It has another purpose.

The general punishment principle of the German state is that of "general prevention", which means the purpose of punishing people is to prevent other people to do the same offenses. Re-integration of offenders is only a secondary requirement.

The juvenile punishment system wants something else. It wants to bring young offenders back on the track of legality, therefore, punishments are only used if no other alternative is seen. Instead, for smaller offenses, young offenders must work in social organisations like hospitals, help old people and something like that, or they must confront their victim and try to apologise for their behaviour and do everything to bring the situation back to normal.

The reason is, if young people are sent to jail, they meet real criminals, starting a criminal career when they are out again. The law thinks that chances are good that people who do smaller offenses when they are young have good chances of never doing something illegal again. Everybody has done something stupid when he is younger, and the position is that a flexible system can work out better than the strict criminal system.

However, working at a hospital for 2000hours is no proper punishment for severe crimes, therefore, the law also has provisions for youth jails, up to 10 years are possible.

So, 10 years are the maximum possible for people under 18 who commit murder. In this case, the courts came up with a judgement which is very close to the maximum punishment, this seems not that much out of proportion.

Bear in mind that this guy will be sent home to Turkey directly when he is released from jail, so he has more than enough to worry about.

It can, of course, be discussed whether the juvenile punishment system in Germany has achieved the intended results. Very often, people who are getting criminal when they are 14 remain criminals, and the system could not change that very much. But I think the idea of the system is good. I am thankful that we do not have 16 year old guys to sit on the electric chair.

Michael


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