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Angry @ Oil Companies? Me Too, But Read This.....  
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1886 times:

It won't ease your anger, but you may be more understanding of it. That's my philosophy on the whole thing now..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2005/10/27/AR2005102702399.html

Some quotes from the article..

For instance, in 2004 Exxon Mobil earned more money -- $25.33 billion -- than any other company on the Fortune 500 list of largest corporations. But by another measure of profitability, gross profit margin, it ranked No. 127.

"People who are freaking out about Exxon's record profit are the same people who were freaking out about AOL Time Warner's record losses" of $98.2 billion in 2002, he said. "One quarter's net income or loss doesn't mean anything."

Most financial institutions, such as commercial banks, are routinely more profitable than Exxon Mobil was in its third quarter. For example, Exxon Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004. By percentage of total revenue, banking is consistently the most profitable industry in America, followed closely by the drug industry.

Again, I am still pissed about gas prices, but this article helps understand it better.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

Well... so I guess big business is about nothing but screwing as much money as possible out of everyone else. **** providing the best service possible while turning a decent profit when you can just "milk 'em" and make your wallet change from fat to obese.

15,7 cents of profit for each dollar of revenue... maybe dish some of that out via higher interest on savings accounts and such?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1877 times:

We (as consumers) get ripped off by banks...

It takes four days to clear a cheque in the UK, the cash actually "clears" much earlier however they hold onto it for 2 or 3 days and invest it, allowing THEM to make on MY money! In the mean time i'm left short because they're faffing around with my cheque.

My bank charges £28 for going over my overdraft. No matter how much i go over. I've gone over by two pence before and been forced to pay £28 in "administration" fees. In no way shape or form does it cost my bank £28 when i go over drawn.

Its a disgrace what they get away with...!



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

Gross Profit Margin would be the last line when its time to pay taxes. Wonder what creative ways that Exxon-Mobil is using to reduce their tax burden?

User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12570 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1793 times:
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Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
Again, I am still pissed about gas prices, but this article helps understand it better.

I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue. It doesn't reduce the cost of your gas, but at least you're seeing that the oil majors are not the villains you thought they were. thumbsup 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineCrjonbeez From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 2):
It takes four days to clear a cheque in the UK, the cash actually "clears" much earlier however they hold onto it for 2 or 3 days and invest it, allowing THEM to make on MY money! In the mean time i'm left short because they're faffing around with my cheque.

happens to me at work as well. we receive our checks on thursday, they are deposited on friday, and we don't see any of the 401(k) money we invested get put into our morgan stanley account until the coming monday. it irritates the hell out of me! if the check is good to cash friday at 12am, why must i miss out on at least a full day of the market with money i chose to invest? currently, the money seems to be invested sometime monday afternoon, usually by market close. most of the time, it isn't credited to my acount in time for ME to see anything out of it until tuesday.  banghead 


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue

We all work only for money, and most people work for costs of business plus a little profit above that. Imagine if we were only paid what it cost us to live, w/o that little 'extra' for us to spend as we wish. I dont begrudge anyone or anything their money, because one day, and it keeps gets closer, I want to be there.

If you all want to complain about money and waste, check out the cost for any government program. Normally, a government job will cost us twice as much as a private job, and those two projects would be similar.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue. It doesn't reduce the cost of your gas, but at least you're seeing that the oil majors are not the villains you thought they were.

People with half a brain realise that the company is there to make money and there are other companies who make more money. But because oil prices are at record high's they instantly assume that the oil company is screwing them when they are really being screwed by their bank or supermarket who makes nearly double the amount of profit per dollar that passes through them.

Some people simply can't see the forrest for the trees.


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1655 times:

Think of the effort required to find and produce oil. Then think of the effort required to take your money and and make a profit on it. Oil companies are greedy bastards, but banks beat them by miles.

Bankers and lawyers, the two greediest groups on the planet.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
Again, I am still pissed about gas prices, but this article helps understand it better.

I'm glad you're changing your attitude on this issue. It doesn't reduce the cost of your gas, but at least you're seeing that the oil majors are not the villains you thought they were.

I still find the retirement package that EXXON's CEO got is absolutely unexcuseable. If it wasn't for that, I actually might find myself defending the oil companies, but not with this.


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1619 times:
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Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
Gross Profit Margin would be the last line when its time to pay taxes. Wonder what creative ways that Exxon-Mobil is using to reduce their tax burden?

One of the most creative ways is to pump billions back into the development of additional supplies, through conventional exploration and drilling, oil sands development, etc. If they didn't do that, their tax bill would skyrocket. Of course, if they didn't do that, pretty soon they'd have no oil to sell at all, and their profits would disappear, along with the rest of their operations.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17538 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1603 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
15,7 cents of profit for each dollar of revenue... maybe dish some of that out via higher interest on savings accounts and such?

Where do you think that profit goes?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Where do you think that profit goes?

Extra premiums for Citicorp managers and high-ranking bankers, extra profit for Citicorp shareholders i.e. mostly funds who then pay their managers and brokers extra premiums. Most notably: most of it is unlikely to benefit the "small guy" who's exactly the one making these profits possible.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17538 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1576 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):
Most notably: most of it is unlikely to benefit the "small guy" who's exactly the one making these profits possible.

And how much better off would this "small guy" be if Exxon did not make these profits?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Where do you think that profit goes?

Well, first there are taxes. Part of it goes to shareholders as dividends, part of it goes to pay interest on bonds, a fair amount of it goes into exploration, research and development of new ventures, some of it gets held in investments which can be called upon when these record profits go south (and they will).

Salaries are budgeted and are part of the expenses of doing business and do not come out of profits

This article does paint an interesting picture, and also underscores that one can't draw conclusions from one isolated set of numbers. If we did that, one might concluded that the airline industry is in far deeper do-do than it may appear in the broader term, for example.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4024 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 2):
allowing THEM to make on MY money

Stop using cheques... it is by far the most expensive form of payment for the banks so it is only fair they get a little out of it.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Thread starter):
For example, Exxon Mobil's gross margin of 9.8 cents of profit for every dollar of revenue pales in comparison to Citigroup Inc.'s 15.7 cents in 2004.

That is a completely wrong way to look at the profitability of a bank... if they told something about the ROE or the C/I they could have a point but this?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
And how much better off would this "small guy" be if Exxon did not make these profits?

Citicorp (or rather Citigroup), not Exxon. Those 15,7 cents were Citigroup income per dollar of revenue.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17538 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 16):
Citicorp (or rather Citigroup), not Exxon. Those 15,7 cents were Citigroup income per dollar of revenue.

I'm talking about Exxon. How much better off would the "small guy" be if Exxon didn't make that $25+ billion in profit?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
I'm talking about Exxon.

And I was talking about Citigroup. There's little sense in adapting a point I made about Citigroup to Exxon. Does Exxon offer savings accounts? I at least haven't heard of it yet.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
How much better off would the "small guy" be if Exxon didn't make that $25+ billion in profit?

Paying a little less at the pump, he'd probably be likely to have a somewhat lower blood pressure. And millions of small guys would be able to inject the money in your national economy, which might just end up being better for it than some super-executives storing considerable amounts of it in off-shore accounts.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

It was a good article, although I have never blamed Exxon-Mobil and the like for the gas prices. If I were to blame anyone, and I don't, supply and demand takes effect here and I'm a big proponent of the capitalist society so we do these things to ourselves via lack of foresight. However, I would blame every government in the last 20 years at the lack of refineries being built. In Canada I wonder about the lack of progress on tapping the Athabasca Oil Sands and making that an economical method of getting oil. I also think some of the credit should go to OPEC.

The price will continue to go up until people decide that it's too expensive and they find another way to get around (ie. public transportation), reducing the profits of companies like Exxon-Mobil or the ability to turn crude into gasoline is improved. You can't blame Exxon-Mobil for making a profit (yes it's a big one!), and I don't believe for a second, that if any of us were oil execs that we wouldn't try to make as much money as possible, it's business, their main goal is to turn a profit margin for their stockholders, and they do it very well.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17538 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 18):
Paying a little less at the pump, he'd probably be likely to have a somewhat lower blood pressure. And millions of small guys would be able to inject the money in your national economy, which might just end up being better for it than some super-executives storing considerable amounts of it in off-shore accounts

So by making a profit, Exxon is hurting the economy? Does that mean GM just did the economy a favor by losing $353 million in three months alone?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
So by making a profit, Exxon is hurting the economy? Does that mean GM just did the economy a favor by losing $353 million in three months alone?

Oh sure that helped, I know 4 guys who now have a lot more free time on their hands.  Wink


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4024 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 15):
Stop using cheques... it is by far the most expensive form of payment for the banks so it is only fair they get a little out of it.

Actually I take that back. I just made a national transfer via internet between my bank accounts (different banks) and the SOBs still managed to take three days to perform the transaction.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
So by making a profit, Exxon is hurting the economy?

Mhm. So I think I'll call it a night. Twist is for dancing, not for words.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17538 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 23):
Mhm. So I think I'll call it a night. Twist is for dancing, not for words.

You said if Exxon did not make the $25 billion profit...

Quoting Aloges (Reply 18):
millions of small guys would be able to inject the money in your national economy, which might just end up being better for it than some super-executives storing considerable amounts of it in off-shore accounts.

It's not a far leap to "the Exxon profit could be hurting the economy". Not a twist, not a shimmy, not a grand jete in sight...



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Aloges : I said so all while I was talking about Citigroup? Why, that's interesting... It is. It's absolutely no far leap to "secret offshore bank accounts hu
26 Mham001 : And once again, in todays news, the same old tired voices call for investigations of the mean ole nasty oil companies and excessive profits. WASHINGTO
28 Aloges : MaverickM11, you asked about Exxon, I answered to that. You brought up Exxon: It was the polite thing to do, answering your question. Should I not hav
29 Prebennorholm : Some numbers: Exxon profit: $25 Billion. Exxon sales: One thousand billion tons fuels world wide. That makes roughly 9 or 10 cent per US gallon fuel s
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