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Why Do We Keep People Alive At All Costs?  
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5819 posts, RR: 31
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

The end came quicker than any of us ever imagined. On the Friday she was fine but by Saturday her speech was slurred and she seemed a little distant. Ever stubborn to the last, she refused point blank to see a doctor.

By Monday she seemed better, although tired, and unusually she stayed in bed for the day. She was at last persuaded to call a doctor, but it had to be her own, who wasn't available till the following day.

By early evening she had a snack of cheese, toast and tea, and after talking to her husband for a while said she was tired and wanted to rest.

He checked on her regularly and she seemed to be asleep, although breathing a little heavily. After two hours he tried to wake her. She continued to breathe, but wouldn't respond.

By the time the ambulance was on its way all her close family were around her and she slipped very quietly away.

She went the way she always wanted to go: at home and surrounded by her family and friends and in no pain.

She was the most considerate and generous of women, always concerned about other people, and was the person everybody in the family (and outsiders) would turn to in a crisis. Now that we all need her she's not there.

While we loved her very much and she didn't want to go so soon (she was going to be around for at least another 20 years), EVERYBODY in the family agrees that it was for the best, if the only other option was to be kept alive for years by medical devices.

She would have HATED that. Who wouldn't? Why do we insist on draining the last evidence of life from someone, sometimes cruelly, just for the sake of it?

If someone is religious, surely they have no need for men to play God and keep them alive aritifically; if they are not they should not have a problem with letting someone go when their time has come.



In memory of a remarkable, wonderful woman.

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Well said to say the very least. Sorry to hear about your loss. Take care my friend.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

Why do we insist on draining the last evidence of life from someone, sometimes cruelly, just for the sake of it?

One should make a Living Will with a DNR order.

My condolences...

[Edited 2006-04-26 01:55:49]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5819 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1):
Sorry to hear about your loss. Take care my friend.

Thanks Luv2fly, much appreciated m8.


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
Why do we insist on draining the last evidence of life from someone, sometimes cruelly, just for the sake of it?

Why indeed! Prolonging life is in many cases not in someone's best interest if there is no improvement in one's quality of life. Yes you may live a few months longer, but if it is going to be in pain and suffering you really have to ask if this is humane?

What a wonderful tribute Braybuddy! Thank you!

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineABfemme From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
surely they have no need for men to play God and keep them alive aritifically

Braybuddy, I have first hand knowledge and thoughts on this - I will post my thoughts tomorrow in the light of day, for now I am very touched by what I have read - She was indeed a remarkable woman

Kind regards

Claire

ps - If you want to IM me I am there for you, don't hesitate.


User currently offlineKmh1956 From Bermuda, joined Jun 2005, 3324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3372 times:

That's one of the loveliest things I've ever read in this forum. You and your family have my deepest condolences, and thankfully great memories instead of rememberiing the constant whirr and click of life-support machines.


'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6621 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3369 times:
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I am very sorry for your loss. My father passed away rather suddenly 1 year and 3 months ago. He was my best friend and my best teacher. Even today, the pain has not gone away. Even today, when I come home from work I always expect to hear the greeting he had for me ever since I came home from kindergarten.

So I guess I am one of the few who can say that I understand how you feel right now.

On the other hand, I am not sure this thread was meant by you to start a discussion on keeping life at all costs. I will only say that I really share your pain, I hope you find resignation soon, and that maybe later we can start a discussion about those issues. Maybe right now is not the time. And I do not mean to be patronizing.

You and your family will be on my prayers and I will offer Sunday mass for you.


User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3649 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

Maybe if she had gone to the doctor immediatly she would still be alive and well.

User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5819 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 8):
Maybe if she had gone to the doctor immediatly she would still be alive and well.

Sure. Or maybe hooked up to drips, drugged up to the eyballs and on life support machines. Or maybe not. We'll never know and don't want to.


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3584 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Sorry about your loss. My grandmother is also at a point where I just want her to be at peace. She has been in the hospital after a stroke last Friday and is not communicating or cognisant at all.


Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5819 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3357 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 10):
My grandmother is also at a point where I just want her to be at peace

I think if you live to be a grandmother you have achieved a lot in life. I understand completely how you feel, JAGflyer, and when the time comes you will look on it as a release for her. Best wishes.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

A beautiful tribute Braybuddy - Thank you for sharing and my condolonces to your and your family.

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 8):
Maybe if she had gone to the doctor immediatly she would still be alive and well.

Was that really necessary?



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Sorry to hear about your loss, Braybuddy, and your tribute was magnificent. At least she went quietly w/o much pain or suffering.

The position of keeping someone alive is very difficult. We can all talk about it, but it must be difficult to make the decision to 'pull the plug' while knowing that your decision will end that person's life. I wish never to be placed in that situation, but much rather have my loved ones go quietly into the night, after living a long, full life.


User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5819 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 4):
What a wonderful tribute Braybuddy! Thank you!



Quoting ABfemme (Reply 5):
or now I am very touched by what I have read - She was indeed a remarkable woman



Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 6):
You and your family have my deepest condolences,



Quoting AR385 (Reply 7):
I am very sorry for your loss



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 12):
Thank you for sharing and my condolonces to your and your family.



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 13):
Sorry to hear about your loss, Braybuddy,

Thanks for all your kind thought and words a.netters. . there are humans in here after all!

I'm hitting the sack now amd will hopefully catch up on this and post tomorrow.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3324 times:

I think that it's a decision that's personal. I'm old enough to have seen a fair number of people in my family get on the boat with Brother Charon.

It's one thing for a person who's lived a long time. My father died in 2001 and I sometimes find myself having imaginary conversations with him about really interesting stuff-he was a metallurgical engineer and just about the smartest person I ever met. He worked his way through MIT on scholarships and ROTC-he was the son of a fisherman.
When he went, he'd been in declining health for some years, and his mobility was limited. It was a choice for him. He got baptized at the age of 81 and put his affairs in order.

My aunt, who I was devoted to, died of uterine cancer at age 54. But it was her choice that no heroic measures, chemotherapy, radiation, radical surgery etc be taken. As a result she went rather quickly. It was a choice she made.

See, here's the deal. The people we love and admire the most aren't cowards-they've already made up their mind to go forward into the unknown.

And that's why we miss them so much. Because that's what made them who they were-it's character and bravery, is what it is.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 8):
Maybe if she had gone to the doctor immediatly she would still be alive and well.

And maybe if my parents stopped having kids after me I would have been the youngest! Yet they did'nt Blance, the did'nt!

I think you owe Braybuddy an apology!



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

Braybuddy,

Beautiful words. I am so sorry for your loss.

767Lover


User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3649 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3286 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 16):
I think you owe Braybuddy an apology!

It's just my opinion that her symptoms were a sign of stroke and she should have gone to the hospital ASAP. Maybe it could have been fixed easily.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 18):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 16):
I think you owe Braybuddy an apology!

It's just my opinion that her symptoms were a sign of stroke and she should have gone to the hospital ASAP. Maybe it could have been fixed easily.

And that might be way people always say "hindsight is 20/20" Though this is life and life does not give you a do over. What is done is done, and adding you callous remark does nothing expect show a lack of respect in a difficult time.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineArmitageShanks From UK - England, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3649 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3260 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 19):
And that might be way people always say "hindsight is 20/20" Though this is life and life does not give you a do over. What is done is done, and adding you callous remark does nothing expect show a lack of respect in a difficult time.

Don't get me wrong I feel terrible that he lost a loved one. That is one of the worst pains in the world, but to say that it's pointless to seek medical help when it is obvious is just not smart.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 20):
Don't get me wrong I feel terrible that he lost a loved one. That is one of the worst pains in the world, but to say that it's pointless to seek medical help when it is obvious is just not smart.

Well you can not change what has already happened, so what Mom always said to do, "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all!"



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Please accept my condolences on your loss. I know from experience that it is hard to deal with.


But I guess, in answer to the question of why people do it, I guess its a somewhat selfish thing in some cases. Ie a will cannot be executed while someone is still alive, or the though of them being alone and not being next to someone is too much to handle.


User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3251 times:

Braybuddy, I'm very sorry for you loss.
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.


User currently onlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5819 posts, RR: 31
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 20):
but to say that it's pointless to seek medical help when it is obvious is just not smart.

I understand your point ArmitageShanks, but we wonder now if she knew something we didn't. Twice in the previous month she had mentioned death in conversations with me. I don't believe in precognition, but maybe she had some indication of her illness and said nothing to anybody.

She HATED to see people kept alive artifically and always said to shoot her if she ever got like that. So maybe her refusal to see a doctor was a recognition that the game was up and she wanted to exit this life at home, and her death was a death to order, if ever there were such a thing.

[Edited 2006-04-26 07:52:50]

25 AndesSMF : Perhaps she did know something. But I still feel for you, and for her. But what else can you ask for. She was a grandmother in good health who died p
26 Searpqx : Braybuddy, I think you've made an important point. My Grandmother discovered that she had advanced liver cancer as well as a host of other health con
27 777DadandJr : Hey Braybuddy, My condolences and prayers to you and your family. It sounds like she was a wonderful woman. Having recently lost my mother, I can rela
28 Oly720man : Sorry for your loss Braybuddy, but I'm sure, as you say, she went the way she wanted to go, in her own home, and not kept going in some impersonal hos
29 Post contains images Kazzie : im sure those words meant more to her than you will ever know. Amazingly written, May she rest in peace... Just Remember, A life is Lived, but only to
30 BHXFAOTIPYYC : My mum's twin sister died in 1987 at 52 with cancer. She looked like an inmate from Belsen by the time she died weighing about 70 lbs; seeing her nex
31 Braybuddy : Thanks to everyone for their heartfelt words and sympathy. I must add that I certainly didn't post this thread looking for any -- you'd need to be an
32 FOMEA : Braybuddy, Sorry to hear about you Loss. My Deep condolences. Regards F-OMEA.
33 Nordair : You have a very odd way of showing it. But it is nice to know that you are not the inhuman piece of trash you appear to be. Braybuddy, my condolences
34 AeroWesty : Braybuddy, my sincere condolences to you and your family. I was with my mother and grandmother when they passed, and it was a peaceful event for them
35 777DadandJr : Hey Braybuddy, My apologies for the assumtion that she was your grandmother. Though, after reading your reply 31, it seems she was mother, grandmother
36 Rolfen : Did you watch "million dollar baby"? see it.
37 Braybuddy : Thanks guys, and to anyone else above I've missed. No apoligies necessary 777DadandJr: I referred to someone else's grandmother in a post and I could
38 Pope : I read somewhere that in the US on average about 75% of your total lifetime health care spending will occur within 2 years of your death. There's a di
39 Braybuddy : Sounds a horrific way to go Pope, and your mother's reaction was unfortunate, if understandable at the time. At least you know you have nothing on yo
40 Pope : To this day I feel that my father's last lesson to me was in the way he died. The lesson, enjoy life everyday because it really is fragile and you'll
41 AndesSMF : In Latin America, aunt would be used for a non-relative as a sign of love and respect. As I said, this is a decision that no one wants to ever go thr
42 ArmitageShanks : Oh but I am. That's the beauty of internet forums... you can be anyone you want.
43 Saxdiva : Braybuddy... sorry for the loss of your friend. Kindred spirits are hard to come by, and it sounds like she meant a lot. Best wishes, Leanne
44 Luv2fly : Most likely the reality is dead on of the persona!
45 AR385 : Pope, my experience was similar to yours. We found out my father had stomach cancer on the 23th Dec. 2004, after he collapsed on me vomiting blood. In
46 DrDeke : I too am very sorry about your loss. My grandparents are getting right up there in age and although they are doing well at the moment, I am all too a
47 Braybuddy : Thanks to both of you, Saxdiva and DrDeke. Much appreciated. You can rest assured that you did the right thing. Put yourself in your dad's place and
48 AndesSMF : It is very important to follow the wishes of a dying person, it is the last favor they are asking of you. It would be disrespectful to the person for
49 Rolfen : Fate, buddy, you'll miss the love of your life for the most stupid reasons, friendships that never had the chance to be... young people dying, it seem
50 Redngold : Braybuddy - I'm sorry to hear of your loss. I'm glad that it went "as well as can be expected." Your eulogy brought tears to my eyes. To aswer your qu
51 LO231 : Buddy, I'm very sorry to hear about your loss, my deepest condolences. I know what you're talking about, my mother has passed away a year and a half a
52 Redngold : Sometimes even when you seek aggressive medical treatment, there is no help left. My grandfather died in the emergency room of a hospital where he ha
53 Braybuddy : Thanks to both of you, Redngold and LO231, and my condolences on both your losses.
54 Jetflyer : Why leave someone in pain and pointless misery and life if they're not capable of it, is what I say. Also I',m fed up of the idiots who tell us "you c
55 Post contains images DrDeke : I understand where you're coming from and I'm not telling you to change, but a lot of people do seem to change their minds on this when they get a bi
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