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Why Have They That Problem?  
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1282 times:

Could someone tell me in a gentle way why the Americans refuse the critics ?

It 's the only western country I know which calls critics "hatred".
Even the Germans, who are really in a bad situation when talking about the history don't react like that. They just admit the mistakes of their former govt. That's no problem.
It seems that some Americans are genetically uncapable of self-criticism.

(And that does NOT mean that I am Anti-American - which I'm not - , as some of you will try to say).

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYKA From Netherlands, joined Sep 2001, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1179 times:

Both Canadians and Americans think they are superior to everybody else and regard other nations(including those in Europe) as backward and primitive. That propaganda is is fed to them at a very young age which results in the "shut up, were better than you" attitude whenever you atempt to critisize them.



User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1177 times:

What are you taught in school when you're young about Europe ?

My girlfriend visited the US and she loved it. But one day a guy (at university !!) asked her if we had cars in France.
She nearly collapsed of surprise.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1173 times:

Well do you have cars in France?  Yeah sure

User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1172 times:

Let me add this. Don't generalize all Americans. Just like you think "all us" Americans are fed how superior we are...you only see the ignorant Americans the one that can make a million people look bad to someone else. Grow up, because you can't assume 280 million people all think the same way. If anything, its thinking like that, that gives certain Americans a feeling of superiority...whether right ot wrong.

User currently offlineLuxair From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1162 times:

Kroc you are right to say that not all Americans are like that!
I went a few times to the States and I met a lot of nice people their
who are not thinking in a way "we are better than the rest of
the world" Everytime when they asked me where are you from
and I told them that I am from Europe they where very interested and
the most of them told me that their dream was to travel ones
to Europe. I have to agree, that US foreign politics is bad and was bad in the
past but I hope that they will change for the future!!! But the most of the
people in the states is not always thinking that way of their politicians!

Greetings



Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1150 times:

I think the problem Sobolino, isn't that Americans are saying "we are better than everyone else". It's the way you and other American-bashers are constantly saying "Americans are worse than everyone else" that rankles so many on here. It makes YOU feel better about yourself, and makes YOU feel superior.

User currently offlinePHX-LJU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1153 times:

I'm a European as well as an American, yet I fully condemn people who attack the US. For me, and for many people around the world, the US is more than just another country; it's symbol of freedom and democracy.

Opinion polls prove that most Europeans like and respect the US. Only a few people (with personal problems) enjoy attacking America.

As I've said a million times, I have no problem with people who criticize America's policies. However, if someone compares the country's democratically elected president to Hitler (as someone has done on this board) that is HATRED. Just as I do not tolerate racism, I will not tolerate such anti-American outbursts. Call Bush an idiot if you want, but comparing the US to Nazi Germany is beyond sick.

Tell me, why should a person condemn racism but not anti-Americanism? To me, both are equally repulsive!


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

"Opinion polls prove that most Europeans like and respect the US. Only a few people (with personal problems) enjoy attacking America".

Well said, and vice versa for Americansattacking Europe. It's only a few.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

You're 100 % right, PHX-LJU, that Anti-Americanism is stupid.
Exactly like anti-communism that your country promoted so much in the past.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1139 times:

Anti-Communism is a way of life that limits a persons basic freedoms. Anti-Americanism is people against Americans just cause they re Americans. The two cannot be compared.

User currently offlineWhistler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1143 times:

What the hell are you talking about sebolino???

Sheesh  Insane


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1137 times:

LOL, Sobolino!! Anti-Communism wasn't "stupid". It was taken to absurd extremes by many, most notably Senator Joe McCarthy, but the basic anti-communism wasn't "stupid". Again, anti-Communism was born out of the Soviet Union. One of their leaders, Nikita Khruschev once told the US "We will bury you". They were committed to the destruction of Captalism. They were the political anthesis of what the west was about, so being Anti-Communist isn't "stupid", unless, uh, you have sympathies with that failed political philosophy?

User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1129 times:

Good, Alpha1, you learned your lesson and you know it.

I'm not communist myself, but still the US showed how little consideration they had for people that don't think in the American way. As far as I know the MacCarthism took place in the USA against US citizens, no ? Oh yeah, these people were a real danger for your great country.
Unfortunately, this forum shows that it's still hard to speak freely in the US and with Americans.

Yes, anti-communism was stupid and is still. As usual you're trying to fight against ideas and not against problems. Kroutchev was sovietic before he was communist. But the efficient propaganda in the US made a clear mix between those.
I dislike communist regimes, but tell me, if it's so bad and evil, why was your president in China last week ?

And you still didn't tell me, Alpha1, why you refuse the critics.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1121 times:

I will not "refuse" criticism when it's warrented. In the case of this war, it's ill-considered American-bashing in my view.

And again, you don't get it. Communism was out to destroy the way of life in the US-even in France!! So being anti-communist wasn't stupid-if something is the exact opposite of what you stand for then your against it, hence the word "anti". And yes, McCarthy branded many Americans as communist sympathizers, but his zealotry was born out of this country's struggle against the Soviet Union. He took it waaaay too far, and he ended up paying a bitter price for it-he ended up dying a lonely, destitute alcoholic.

As for President Bush visiting China, don't insult our intelligence, Sobolino. We may not like the way another country thinks, but we still have to deal with them. And, as I've said before, war creates strange bedfellows. It's the old saying: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's what China is in this conflict-the enemy of our enemy.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1117 times:

Sebolino. Until you live in the U.S., you cannot accuratly state how "it's still hard to speak freely in the US and with Americans." Again, you are baing your whole opinions on 280 million people on a few people who you argue with on the internet. Your generalizations are absurd.

As for your continued push with Communism...With America, and say Russia (USSR), We were not only against Communism, but we are also against oppression, expansion, and in an arms race. We never opposed the people of a Communist Regime. That is why Bush is in China, or was in China. The relationship we have with China is greatly different than what it was with the USSR. Bush was there also to improve relations not only with China, but with other Asian nations.


User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1113 times:

We agree on the last point KROC, it's why I think that should not have been degraded into anti-communism. It was a fight (or small war) against the other superpower. And yes, I know France was in danger, but not from communism, from USSR which was more Stalinist than Communist in the real meaning. Unfortunately a hunt against communists took place (I don't care they were communists, but they were simple men with their own ideas, that's the point).

User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1108 times:

By the way, I have a real and serious question (pronounciation).

In English do you say anti in anti-communism with the sound E or with the sound I ?? (I'm serious).

And in anti-social, anti-clerical is it the same ? Is it always the same ? My feeling is that sometimes you say ANT-E and sometimes ANT-I (???????)  Insane

If you answer, I will emigrate to America and will become a good citizen  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1107 times:

Ant-E or Ant-I. You will alwyas here both ways. Again on this communism thing. I bel;ieve you are reffering to McCarthy's purge against so called American Communists. By no means was any of that right in any sense fo the word, but again, one man used teh nations fears to power his own views and feelings. Also, how many people did Stalin actually KILL for opposing Communism?

User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1102 times:

You're right once again. Stalin was a monster and people were afraid in US and in Europe. But I have the feeling it's not totally over. I think it's still VERY VERY bad to be communist in the US , no ?

User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

YKA wrote: "Both Canadians and Americans think they are superior to everybody else..."

Be careful with your generalisations. While both countries do have their share of nationalists (as do other countries), both have also had some pretty shrill critics from among their ranks. Ted Byfield, Barbara Amiel and David Frum are among those Canadians who have been sharply critical of Canada. Likewise, Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky and Michael Parenti have assumed the same role in the U.S.

(On a side note, it's interesting to note that both countries' strongest domestic critics and most prolific flag-wavers are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum compared to their equivalents in the other country. For example, Canada's critics tend to congregate on the right, America's on the left.)



User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1093 times:

"(On a side note, it's interesting to note that both countries' strongest domestic critics and most prolific flag-wavers are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum compared to their equivalents in the other country. For example, Canada's critics tend to congregate on the right, America's on the left.) "

I don't know for the Canada, but for the US it's probably because it's a generally more right-wing country (where the democrats are considered on the right compare to the French spectrum).


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1094 times:

Sebolino: I haven't heard of Communism in the U.S. in a long time. At least not on a serious level. There iwll always be someone who wants to follow it, but it is proven that full fledged communism doesn't work, and Americans know that, and it is generally not of concern.

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1093 times:

No one ever answered the question whether France had cars!


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (12 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1092 times:

What I mean, KROC, is that we have a communist party in France, and that's no problem. We even have communist ministers in the government and they don't want to put down the economy.
90 % of the population doesn't share the ideas, but there never were any problems with them.

The main difference with communists and the socialist government is that the communists want a higher minimum salary, they want to forbid the enterprises to fire if they make profit, they want to tax more rich people, and such things ...


25 Sebolino : You're right. I have to answer. No, I have to admit it. We don't have cars. We don't have roads anyway. Luckily we have huge parts of grass where our
26 Alpha 1 : Sobolino, I think it worth noting that the Communist Party was never outlawed in the United States. It's message simply never resonated except with a
27 KROC : Alpha 1 beat me too it! I second his post.
28 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Sorry, KROC, but I'm a 70wmp typist!!
29 Post contains images KROC : Wow, thats good. Blows my 55 WPM out of the water!
30 Heavymetal : Sebelino, thanks for answering your own question. We tend to have a distaste for pronouncements of pure and rancid generalization. There are 280 milli
31 Mcdougald : Sebolino wrote: "I don't know for the Canada, but for the US it's probably because it's a generally more right-wing country" I think one of the big di
32 PHX-LJU : A better question is "Why do some Europeans (a small minority) have problem with the US?" Once again, here are three reasons: 1.) Ignorance (witness A
33 PHX-LJU : And, yes, I should add my usual disclaimer: Most Europeans LIKE the US, and opinion polls prove. The America-bashers are an insignificant minority, in
34 Stratofish : Because Americans and Europeans ARE DIFFERENT. We´re simmilar in most ways but there are different ways of thinking. Mostly because of different upbr
35 Heavymetal : We don't 'flame' you for every kind of criticism...people get 'flamed' because 9 times out of 10 on these forums, such criticism is hopelessly general
36 PHX-LJU : >>We don't 'flame' you for every kind of criticism...people get 'flamed' because 9 times out of 10 on these forums, such criticism is hopelessly gener
37 Post contains images Ryanb741 : Say, how would the Americans on this forum feel if the UK became another US state? We will behave ourselves I promise, and think about it, you will ge
38 Post contains images PHX-LJU : >> We will behave ourselves I promise, and think about it, you will get a whole Royal Family for free No!!!! Keep them, please!!!!!
39 PHX-LJU : Seriously, even though I've never liked Tony Blair that much, I think he has a great foreign policy.
40 Jessman : You're right. I have to answer. No, I have to admit it. We don't have cars. We don't have roads anyway. Luckily we have huge parts of grass where our
41 Post contains images Mx5_boy : Ignorant Americano's and Impoverished Europeans! All of you fall to your knees, you will soon be under the next world superpower - Australia. Prepare
42 Post contains images Miguel : It is very easy to critizice, but allways dificult to hear. We react as if we were attacked. It is necessary courage to look into ourselves and think
43 PanAm747 : >>The american people, 280 million, can not be guilt of their governement foreign policy
44 Post contains images Sebolino : "I saw cars in France last summer, did they outlaw them?" You're a criminal !!! Now, everybody will know that we have cars. Hey, can you imagine what
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