Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Boliva Nationalizes Oil And Gas Industry!  
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1657 times:

Quote:
President Evo Morales nationalized Bolivia's natural gas industry and oil Monday, ordering foreign energy companies to send their supplies to a state company for sales and industrialization.

Source AP.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...NWCN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Chilling, we all new it was coming, but so fast, I just hope Santa Cruz can finally gain independance from Bolivia and carve themselves a better future free from the stupidity that governs in La Paz.

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

It's braking news in Argentina. This affects Repsol-YPF (considered Spanish but it's also largely an Argentine company), and some minor Argentine and foreign oil drillers, plus Petrobras, BP and Total.

All oil production from those companies must immediately be turned over to the government for industrialization, refining, and commercialization. Bolivia's government will also take a majority stake in the stocks of all companies or they will be forced to leave in 180. Those companies that earn over 100 million dollars will only keep 18% of the profits, the remainer will go to the state.

Bolivian military forces have now taken control of the oil fields in the country.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

Mossadeq anyone?  stirthepot 

Admittedly Evo Morales is a twat (although an elected one) that play right into the hands of Chavez and co. ...

... on the other hand, having control over their natural resources is someone every country has the right to do (although there are less drastic ways than this). If the companies that made the investments are somehow compensated for them I can't really point any fingers, though I don't see that happening...



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

Ah, yes, Socialism is alive and well in the southern end of the America's, I see.

Bolivia and Argentina, going back to a failed system of economics. Yippie for them.  rotfl 


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

Oh, the poor oil and gas industry. Boo hoo. Too bad. Tough luck.  Big grin


Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17501 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

I was just about to post the same thing. More from el comercio:

http://www.elcomercioperu.com.pe/Edi.../2006-05-01/onlPortada0498539.html

It's sad but honestly, what can you do? Peru has had almost a decade of decent growth and they piss it away by voting for Alan bloody Garcia and Ollanta Humala.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17501 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 5):
Oh, the poor oil and gas industry. Boo hoo. Too bad. Tough luck.

They will do just fine. It's the Bolivians that will be the victims in the end with more poverty and social decay than when the mean-ol' gas companies were in charge of the oil extraction/production, in spite of the fact that every Bolivian will now be an employee of the state oil and gas company.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

Quoting Luisca (Thread starter):
Quote:
President Evo Morales nationalized Bolivia's natural gas industry and oil Monday, ordering foreign energy companies to send their supplies to a state company for sales and industrialization.

Watch out. Here comes Sir Anthony Eden and the British Army just itching for a re-run of the Suez Crisis!


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

To get this straight: I have very little sympathies for Evo Morales, but against the background that Bolivia is one oil-rich nation and at the same time the poorest country in the New World, something has to be done.

Again, Morales' strong pro-Cuba and anti-American course and nationalizing Bolivia's oil and gas industry is most probably wrong, but it should first and foremost be the population that benefits from Bolivia's natural resources, not international companies.
Call that "compassionate capitalism" if you want.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1570 times:

Isn't he just doing exactly what he claimed he would do when running as a candidate? So why all the sudden 'surprise'?

Mr Morales swept to victory as Bolivia's first indigenous president in January elections after vowing to "recover" the country's natural resources by renationalising them.

However, he has shown signs of pragmatism since coming to office, and has held friendly meetings with several oil bosses. On a visit to Brazil in January he said renationalising the industry would not mean expelling foreign companies or expropriating foreign property. "Foreign companies have every right to recover investments and make profits, but profits should be balanced," he told a press conference at the time.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4963348.stm



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 11):
Call that "compassionate capitalism" if you want.

No compassionate capitalism would be if the corporations involved decided of their own volition to help improve the local situation.

This is socialism, pure and simple.

What's to happen to the people of Bolivia when the corporations decide that the new burdens of doing buisness there out weigh the benefits and move shop somewhere else?


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1556 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 8):
Perhaps not, but why did you put Argentina with Evo Morales when none of that has happened? No industries have been nationalized in Argentina... No alliance with Cuba... Why would you suggest that by lumping one with the other?

Argentina, Bolivia and Cuba are joining in some kind of economic alliance. Read it somwhere over the weekend. And trust me, it's only a matter of time till Fidel Jr. nationalizes industries in Argentina. He's a socialist, pure and simple. Socialism is a failed system.


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1550 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Argentina, Bolivia and Cuba are joining in some kind of economic alliance. Read it somwhere over the weekend. And trust me, it's only a matter of time till Fidel Jr. nationalizes industries in Argentina. He's a socialist, pure and simple. Socialism is a failed system.

One can never say never but this is very unlikely.

There is absolutely no ecomomic alliance with Cuba. Again (and this is not the first time it's happened here), you are confusing Argentina with Venezuela  redflag   redflag   redflag , which did announce a new economic alliance between Cuba, Venezuela and Bolivia...

Hate to say this, but get your countries straight, Falcon.  redflag 



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 15):
There is absolutely no ecomomic alliance with Cuba. Again (and this is not the first time it's happened here), you are confusing Argentina with Venezuela , which did announce a new economic alliance between Cuba, Venezuela and Bolivia...

Hate to say this, but get your countries straight, Falcon.

Uh, would you like some crow with your filling of Humble Pie, Derico?

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=121119


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 13):

What's to happen to the people of Bolivia when the corporations decide that the new burdens of doing buisness there out weigh the benefits and move shop somewhere else?

Hm. Only time will tell. The people didn't seem to be benefitting from their resources as it is, so maybe it stands a chance of getting at least a little better. Much of the Middle East was built up through the sale of natural resources. Maybe the same can be done for Bolivia, instead of letting it turn out like the oil-rich African countries that seem to give up an awful lot and yet don't seem to benefit much at all in return.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Socialism is a failed system.

So was the previous version of Argentina. They hit rock bottom before our very eyes. I watched it on TV. Why wasn't that considered a 'failed system'?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17501 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
The people didn't seem to be benefitting from their resources as it is, so maybe it stands a chance of getting at least a little better.

This has happened time and time again in Latin America, and it always fails, and the poor are always the hardest hit and the worst off since they can't leave.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
They hit rock bottom before our very eyes

Which time?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):

WHERE is Argentina in that entire link???????? All I see is Venezuela, Cuba and Bolivia...

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
So was the previous version of Argentina. They hit rock bottom before our very eyes. I watched it on TV. Why wasn't that considered a 'failed system'?

No no no, that was a 30 year messy reestructuring of the country with some bad policies to boot, with nothing to do with socialism or capitalism. Please I would ask all of you to not put examples of processes in a country that is far more complex than you guys need to defend your views.

Also, this is not 2001. It's almost 2007... Things have changed dramatically.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1524 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):

This has happened time and time again in Latin America, and it always fails, and the poor are always the hardest hit and the worst off since they can't leave.

If they were already in bad shape, maybe it's time for a change. Seems hard to see how it can get that much worse.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
Which time?

I was referring to when they defaulted on their dept.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 13):
This is socialism, pure and simple.

I agree, therefore I feel repelled by Morales' course.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 13):
No compassionate capitalism would be if the corporations involved decided of their own volition to help improve the local situation.

Or if Morales would find a way to improve the situation without nationalizing the oil industry, i.e. by charging a more reasonable tax for each barrel. The money could then be spent for education, infrastucture or food subsidies. Waiting for companies to voluntarily show some compassion is a bit naive.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17501 posts, RR: 45
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Seems hard to see how it can get that much worse.

And yet every Morales/Chavez/Garcia/etc populist manages to do just that--promise the world to the people and deliver less than nothing other than maybe a huge bill ten years down the line.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1515 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):

This has happened time and time again in Latin America, and it always fails, and the poor are always the hardest hit and the worst off since they can't leave.

If they were already in bad shape, maybe it's time for a change. Seems hard to see how it can get that much worse.

It can get worse, Morales' cronies are gaining more and more power, they are trowing out companies that generate employment and revenue in Bolivia, investment is way down and will now almost certainly disappear; who wants to invest in Bolivia with the possibility of the government taking it all away with no compensation. Also he is giving more and more power to indigenous clans that are causing a de stabilization of the country, in 2 years Bolivia will be a country of tribes.

If the 60% indigenous population want to live like 10th century Aborigines be my guest, but the rest of the country doesn't have to be forced into it. Santa Cruz, Bolivia's most productive province, wants full Independence from Bolivia and have threatened to do it if Evo Implemented a Marxist government, which it seems he will be doing soon.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1510 times:

Well, I certainly agree that the middle and upper class won't be happy about this. Still, I'm sure they can take care of themselves. No need to cry over them.


Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1502 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
Quoting Derico (Reply 15):
There is absolutely no ecomomic alliance with Cuba. Again (and this is not the first time it's happened here), you are confusing Argentina with Venezuela , which did announce a new economic alliance between Cuba, Venezuela and Bolivia...

Hate to say this, but get your countries straight, Falcon.

Uh, would you like some crow with your filling of Humble Pie, Derico?

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp...21119

Falcon84, its been a while since I have bee here in NonAv but you are still the same jerk who doesn't even check what he says before he says it. In that article their is no mention or Argentina in any pact, the only mentioning of the word Argentina is about a summit held their were ALL AMERICAN (THE CONTINENT) COUNTRIES Participated, in that summit CHAVEZ (VENEZUELA) said his usual stupid Anti US rant. Argentina has no ties to this pact.

I suggest you take a first grade reading comprehension courses and a second grade Geography lesson wouldn't be to bad either.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17501 posts, RR: 45
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1501 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 21):
Still, I'm sure they can take care of themselves.

Yeah, they'll go away because they can, and they'll take their money with them. Companies will no longer want to invest in Bolivia because they know the government will just steal their property, the wealthy have been scared out of staying in Bolivia so they are no longer spending money there nor remitting money to family members, so what's left? A bunch of poor people and decrepit ancient state run industries that are as inefficient as they are expensive to run. Where is the upside?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4304 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1501 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 20):
If the 60% indigenous population want to live like 10th century Aborigines be my guest, but the rest of the country doesn't have to be forced into it. Santa Cruz, Bolivia's most productive province, wants full Independence from Bolivia and have threatened to do it if Evo Implemented a Marxist government, which it seems he will be doing soon.

Do you think this will happen? A separatist movement in Santa Cruz. I had always heard the region of Tarija had some leanings towards secession from Bolivia and joining Argentina, or at least many of the people there did...

Falcon, I think you did confuse Argentina with Venezuela. It is Venezuela, Cuba, and Bolivia that signed a new economic pact, not Argentina, Cuba and Bolivia.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
25 AndesSMF : Hate to say this, but the only 'American' oil companies involved are Brazilian and Argentinian, so this is a different anti-americanism. No it wouldn
26 RootsAir : Then explain me why half of the Swiss population vote left winged and the country is well off. tankfully, natural resources are going back to the sta
27 Post contains images SATX : Wow, you just jumped off the deep end there. That's like comparing Bush to Hitler or something. Let's try to keep this within the realm of plausibili
28 MaverickM11 : All of Europe is, and they're all headed for a very nasty reality if they don't balance their checkbook real soon and/or start making like good Catho
29 AndesSMF : OK, agreed, Zimbawbe is an extreme example. But what history has sometimes shown is that the nationalized industry often benefits the cronies of the
30 NoUFO : To quote Spiegel Online: "The countries (Bolivia and Venezuela), however, agree on their stance concerning the USA. Together with Cuba's head of stat
31 MaverickM11 : I disagree. I personally believe that full blown free trade combined with free markets and sound and predictable legal institutions can fix poverty j
32 Post contains images Falcon84 : My mistake on that one. I did mean Venezuela, and don't hae a clue why I put in Argentina. Just a slip of the fingers. Sorry bout that Derico. Stick
33 Derico : That would not change at all if Pemex was owned by Exxon Mobil, one must say.
34 Post contains images AndesSMF : That makes sound economic policy... Thank you for a better explanation.
35 MDorBust : He could go an even better route. Put in place large increases in industrial taxes, then offer tax exemptions to companies that undertake civic impro
36 MaverickM11 : Probably somewhat true but ExxonMobil, or any publicly traded company is much more transparent and answers to many more people and groups than any go
37 Post contains images Derico : That could be true if the overseeing bodies were fair and uncorruptable, but in Latin America that is still mostly a fantasy. And while in the past t
38 MaverickM11 : ...true but I doubt that Pemex has the same outside pressure on it that ExxonMobil does. I doubt the folks at Greenpeace even know what a Pemex is, b
39 Post contains images Jacobin777 : pot calling kettle black? ever seen the debt figures of the United States? do you know where the United States rates in terms of household savings ra
40 SATX : And when it doesn't? Then what? When you draw such far-reaching conclusions like this you really lose me.
41 AndesSMF : It has always worked, the trick is the 'predictable legal institutions' clause, which means little or no corruption. Where capitalism has been tried
42 SATX : Is this not also true where socialism has failed?
43 LTBEWR : If I am correct, there are groups of citizens of Bolavia have lawsuits going against American companies for pollution from natural gas development. Th
44 MaverickM11 : It's not the debt that's the problem. Europe will one day have to reconcile the fact that it has more people drawing from the state coffers than it d
45 AndesSMF : That is true.
46 Jacobin777 : my point was MaverickM11, that we as a nation aren't too far from that either...we save no money, have massive amounts of debt, have tapped our house
47 MaverickM11 : That is not public policy though, that is irresponsible consumer decision making.
48 NoUFO : The problem would be the usual: General industrial taxes make the production of goods more expensive and are basically an invitation to outsource pro
49 Post contains links MaverickM11 : It's only just the beginning. http://www.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/05/02/bolivia.gas.reut/index.html
50 AndesSMF : Hmm...he's getting a little closer to Mugabe already.
51 Derico : Well I just hope for the outside chance they will manage the resources well, and with the high prices for those products, Bolivia will be able to inve
52 SATX : How is this worse than the regimes in Equatorial Guinea, Liberia, Angola, Nigeria, Sudan, Chad, that are backed by the oil companies themselves? It sm
53 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I think you have a better chance of meeting the tooth fairy. From the CNN article: "YPFB will pay foreign companies for their services, offering abou
54 Jacobin777 : it basically was...with former loser...er I mean Dr. Sir Alan Greenspan basically drastically lowering interest rates, creating multiple bubbles, and
55 Post contains images AndesSMF : Oh, c'mon, the only bubble so far in the last decade was the .com bubble, and it was shorter than you remember. As for the lowering of the interest r
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The Goverment, Horses, And Private Industry posted Fri Sep 8 2006 14:32:15 by MDorBust
What I Dont Understand About Europe And Gas Prices posted Mon Apr 10 2006 16:15:28 by Cadet57
Time To Acknowledge Peak Oil And To Do Something posted Thu Sep 1 2005 15:04:51 by GoogleBoy
Bunker C Oil And Soybeans. A Double Trouble posted Sun Dec 19 2004 06:36:12 by L-188
Mileage Tax And Gas Tax? posted Thu Nov 18 2004 01:52:35 by Matt D
A Solution To Gas Prices And Illegal Immigarnts posted Thu Jul 27 2006 16:51:53 by Matt D
Congress And Oil Company Profits posted Wed Nov 9 2005 15:14:42 by ANCFlyer
Your Domestic Heating: Oil, Gas, Coal, Electric,.? posted Wed Oct 26 2005 18:30:11 by HAJFlyer
Katrina And The Gas Disaster! posted Thu Sep 1 2005 02:01:14 by Zippyjet
Katrina - $7 A Gallon Gas And Other Price Gouging posted Wed Aug 31 2005 21:41:15 by FlyingTexan