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Qaddafi - "US And Europe Should Become Islamic"  
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

http://www.memritv.org/

The third video from the top, number 1121. This is the leader of a country speaking to a crowd. Not a small minority, but a large crowd of Muslims. I do not see outrage from the crowd, nor from other Muslims around the world. I think that this sort of rhetoric poses a greater danger to Islam than some cartoons...so where is the moderate majority when a fool like this speaks?

(Please try to avoid turning this into a theology debate. It's an argument that's similar to saying my daddy is stronger than yours, or my ..... is bigger than yours. All books can be manipulated or changed and the koran is not an exception)


Proud to be an Assyrian!
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

I think everyone's favourite Libyan is just flapping his gums to get a bit more airtime. After all Berlusconi and Ahmedinijad have been getting most of it lately.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

Well we all know how unstable he is and how much he lacks credibility. It's not this nut that bothers me. It's the fact that thousands and thousands of poor people are listening to him and believing his every word. This is a shame to Islam - not some cartoons. The cartoons were made based on stereotypes...like the ones perpetuated by the colonel himself.


Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2771 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
I think everyone's favourite Libyan is just flapping his gums to get a bit more airtime.

What would the worlds response be if Bush had said 'everybody should become a Christian'? Would you be outraged or simply say that he "is just flapping his gums to get a bit more airtime".


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

AndesSMF,

I think we all know that the tree-hugging, know-it-all, western, peace activists would have been complaining and threatening lawsuits, holding demonstrations, criticizing Christianity, etc ...



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

What an idiot. Who the Hell is he to speak? You wont see me changing my religion to Islam. I would also go off if President Bush said everyone needed to be a Christian. Secularism is the way to go.

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

Quoting Marco (Thread starter):
I do not see outrage from the crowd, nor from other Muslims around the world.

Why should they be outraged? Don't Muslims want more folks to be Muslim? Don't Christians want there to be more Christians? While you say don't turn this into a "My religion is better than yours" it is hard to avoid in this instance. Whether or not he is a diligent practicing Muslim (probably doubtful but I have no proof) he is doing what all politicians do everywhere...playing to the crowd and saying what they want to hear. There will always be problems when religion and government mix and cloud each others goals.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2757 times:
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Qaddaffi's son must be on holiday again. Daddy's been let out of his cage again.


Made from jets!
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 3):
What would the worlds response be if Bush had said 'everybody should become a Christian'? Would you be outraged or simply say that he "is just flapping his gums to get a bit more airtime".

Bush is the most powerful man on earth, conversely Qaddafi has been imasculated quite badly over time and is powerless right now. So different standards must be applied to the two.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 8):
Bush is the most powerful man on earth, conversely Qaddafi has been imasculated quite badly over time and is powerless right now. So different standards must be applied to the two.

Sort of. While the Colonel (why doesn't he promote himself to General?) may be less of a threat himself he can rile up the Muslim world with his statements and cause issues that way.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

Why should they be outraged? Don't Muslims want more folks to be Muslim? Don't Christians want there to be more Christians? While you say don't turn this into a "My religion is better than yours" it is hard to avoid in this instance.

Not it's not. It's not hard. A president of an Islamic country should not go on TV addressing thousands of people and calling for the Islamization of Europe and the States. It is not right to insult someone else's religion. It is not right to claim "Christian women are naked". There's a difference between sharing your religion with others (which I'm not particularly fond of anyway) and between inciting hatred in a generation of Muslims that is already fragile.

(Meanwhile embassies were burnt down in Syria and Lebanon because cartoons were drawn that "defamed" Mohammad. Isn't this a bigger defamation to their religion?)

Whether or not he is a diligent practicing Muslim (probably doubtful but I have no proof) he is doing what all politicians do everywhere...playing to the crowd and saying what they want to hear. There will always be problems when religion and government mix and cloud each others goals.

All of these reasons are excuses and unless we address the crises of the Islamic world rather than sugar coating everything in order to sound politically correct, or open minded or culturally sensitive, the problem will get worse.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

Quoting Marco (Reply 10):
All of these reasons are excuses and unless we address the crises of the Islamic world rather than sugar coating everything in order to sound politically correct, or open minded or culturally sensitive, the problem will get worse.

If there is one thing I'm not it is being politically correct. I'm just saying that he is being a politician to the core. There are many issues in the Muslim world, some caused by the West, some caused by them, but he is in the role of a leader of a Muslim country who don't have the same rules as we do.

Now that I have read the transcript I can see where you are coming from as he does take jabs at Christianity and the West. But to play Devil's Advocate here...what about the Pope in his role as the leader of Vatican City and the entire Catholic Church saying that Christianity is the one true way and religion? At the heart of it they are two leaders promoting their religion over another because that is their view of the "right way." Unfortunately, the Ppope is goign to incite a riot with his words while the good Colonel can do exactly that.

While I am a Christian I have a lot of problems when government and religion mix. It is one thing to let your ideals from your religion shape your policy decisions it is another thing to discredit others who don't practice your religion and attack their politics and ideals.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

what about the Pope in his role as the leader of Vatican City and the entire Catholic Church saying that Christianity is the one true way and religion? At the heart of it they are two leaders promoting their religion over another because that is their view of the "right way." Unfortunately, the Ppope is goign to incite a riot with his words while the good Colonel can do exactly that.

Gee what a comparison. A symbolic figure of a tiny "country" who has always tried to promote dialogue between different religion and a fanatic Qaddafi whose opinions will be listened to by 300 million Arabs ...



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Quoting Marco (Reply 12):
A symbolic figure of a tiny "country" who has always tried to promote dialogue between different religion

I would hardly consider the Pope a symbolic figure as he is the leader of the country and global church. Of course it isn't a great comparison but it is one of two countries that are guided by religion. It's what came to mind first. I also wouldn't consider the Catholic Church the best example of promoting dialogue between religions. Under JP II yes, under many Popes before him...not so much.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

Quoting Marco (Reply 2):
Well we all know how unstable he is and how much he lacks credibility.

Maybe, but he must have his merits.

Quoting Marco (Thread starter):
so where is the moderate majority when a fool like this speaks?

Let's see you outwit assassins, run a country for 30 years, then you can call Qaddafi a fool. He's even got full diplomatic relations with everybody. George Bush talks about Jesus all the time; this is no different. I would not be surprised if Google hires Quaddafi because he's so smart.


User currently offlineTIA From Albania, joined Mar 2006, 524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Quoting Marco (Reply 2):
It's not this nut that bothers me. It's the fact that thousands and thousands of poor people are listening to him and believing his every word. This is a shame to Islam

In this case it's not Islam's fault, its the regime's fault. During the cold war, the communist dictators spread propaganda and thousands of poor people believed it, and that had nothing to do with Islam. The situation here is the same, substitute Marxism-Leninism for Islam and I am sure Qaddaffi's speech would sound the same as one given by Stalin. I don't think the people are listening because they are Muslim, but rather because they live under a dictatorship.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2706 times:

Quoting Marco (Thread starter):
I think that this sort of rhetoric poses a greater danger to Islam than some cartoons...so where is the moderate majority when a fool like this speaks?

I guess they're ignoring him, much in the same way moderate and liberal Christians ignore the Pope, Pat Robertson and other Christian leaders when they too spout nonsense. It's because they aren't associated with it in any way.

In any case, why should a Lebanese Muslim couple sipping wine and eating mezze at a cafe in Beirut have to be saddled with the burden of Gaddafi's rants? Or a Pakistani female pilot? Or some Turkish dude taking a siesta after a big meal? Or anyone else for that matter?

If you're so obsessed with what moderate Muslims are doing as Gaddafi (or is it Qaddafi? Or Ghadaffi?) foams at the mouth, then you should run a survey instead of going on A.net and indulging in your own childish rant.


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

any case, why should a Lebanese Muslim couple sipping wine and eating mezze at a cafe in Beirut have to be saddled with the burden of Gaddafi's rants? Or a Pakistani female pilot? Or some Turkish dude taking a siesta after a big meal? Or anyone else for that matter?

Yet so many burnt down embassies when cartoons were drawn ...

If you're so obsessed with what moderate Muslims are doing as Gaddafi (or is it Qaddafi? Or Ghadaffi?) foams at the mouth, then you should run a survey instead of going on A.net and indulging in your own childish rant.

Back to the topic please (not very fond of your "sarcasm")



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
I guess they're ignoring him, much in the same way moderate and liberal Christians ignore the Pope, Pat Robertson and other Christian leaders when they too spout nonsense

Obviously somebody doesnt read the news. When some of the above mentioned people go on a rant, they are not ignored. Pat Robertson has been put down many a times, and so have other Christian leaders.


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2698 times:

Let's see you outwit assassins, run a country for 30 years, then you can call Qaddafi a fool. He's even got full diplomatic relations with everybody. George Bush talks about Jesus all the time; this is no different. I would not be surprised if Google hires Quaddafi because he's so smart

Starving your people and running military dictatorship are certainly very noble things.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

BBC, CNN, etc make sure that Pat Robertson's (and other fanatics) comments are aired, displayed, or whatever. People always reply, moderates always criticize.


Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2686 times:

Quoting Marco (Reply 17):
any case, why should a Lebanese Muslim couple sipping wine and eating mezze at a cafe in Beirut have to be saddled with the burden of Gaddafi's rants? Or a Pakistani female pilot? Or some Turkish dude taking a siesta after a big meal? Or anyone else for that matter?

Yet so many burnt down embassies when cartoons were drawn ...

By fundamentalist fanatics following fundamentalist religious leaders with way too much power in largely failed states (Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia...).

By and large the majority of Muslims were both hurt by the cartoons and embarassed by the senseless violence of their fundamentalist brethren.

If you burden the hundreds of millions of Muslims (150 million in Indonesia, 120 million in India, 110 million in Pakistan, 1 million in Dubai) with the fanaticism of the tens of thousands of fundies and Muttawas and Wahabis who were largely responsible for burning down embassies, then you should also blame every member of every ethnic/religious/racial/political group for the extremism of a noisy minority.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 18):
Obviously somebody doesnt read the news. When some of the above mentioned people go on a rant, they are not ignored. Pat Robertson has been put down many a times, and so have other Christian leaders.

Yes. By many in the United States who see Pat Robertson as the dangerous demagogue he is and because of the danger he poses to the US. You don't expect to see British Christians or Indian Christians or Bhutanese Christians for that matter saddled with the burden of having to dissociate from him to defend Christianity. He's a non-entity to them.

But can you possibly expect any Libyan who wants to see the dawn of tomorrow to step up to the plate and say that Gaddafi is a raving lunatic? Hell, no. If he/she did, they'd be drawn and quartered. So lets accept the political limitations imposed on free speech in Gaddafi's dictatorship. But at the same time, why should some Egyptian doctor or an Iranian socialite too busy trying to find contraband Chanel clothes in Teheran have to go on the defensive for Gaddafi's rubbish? Moreover most moderate Muslims in Islamic theocratic states are too terrified of their own fundamentalist governments to open their mouths lest they end up swimming with the sharks.


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2676 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):

Agreed, but a silent majority doesnt do any good.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
then you should also blame every member of every ethnic/religious/racial/political group for the extremism of a noisy minority.

I would blame them. Using the Nazis as an example, there were really a handful of people coordinating their atrocities, while the majority of Germans stood as the silent majority.


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2662 times:

Face it Libya is a rough state, just remember the Bulgarian nurses and the Palestinian doctor. No Libyan where responsible for this, pigs do also fly....

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2646 times:

Quoting Marco (Thread starter):
so where is the moderate majority when a fool like this speaks?

-
Now, please, tell us whether you indeed are surprised by silly utterances of good old Muammer ? the man who in his anger about Sadat with his revolver, in front of TV, shot the TV-apparatus ? plus many other stories .... still being outraged about him ?
-
people in the word are quite happy that he no longer supports terrorists.


25 AndesSMF : I am not surprised, just concerned that I havent seen much about this. But perhaps you are right. I am not certain if Qadafi (misspelled) holds much
26 Doona : Well, he has a point, we should all become muslims... because, you know, we'd all be alot... erh... happier?
27 AndesSMF : ...I could take a second wife...yeah! I could be happier!
28 L410Turbolet : You can be "happier" even now, can't you? And you don't even have to marry her. Plus you can keep your drinking habits.
29 Post contains images Windshear : I think he just had one of his strokes again Imagine how much Jihad the west had to go on, should we react everytime a Muslim leader og religious fig
30 Post contains images Asbg : Is physical satisfaction your main intention? Why else would you take another wife? *If I'm wrong, I apology in advance.
31 Jacobin777 : not to mention Chaves and Morales.... he's basically marginalised for the past couple of decades....not too many people talk about Qadafi anymore....
32 Post contains images VonRichtofen : I thought Europe already is Islamic
33 Post contains images FOMEA : Well said Jaysit. Regards F-OMEA
34 Windshear : By stating the problem Marco has with the fanatics you your self refer to, is not burdening all 1.3 billion Muslims. If talking about a problem in so
35 TIA : I hope you understand that both Doona nd AndesSMF were joking.
36 Post contains images Windshear : I was kinda thinking the same thing. Boaz.
37 Falcon84 : I think most people would be outraged, just as the world should be when OBL or Khadaffi, or anyone else in the Islamic world says such a thing. In fa
38 BHXFAOTIPYYC : Relax Marco, no-one in Libya is poor or starving. They aren't as rich as the Saudis/Kuwaitis etc but Libya has a lot of oil and a very small (about 4
39 QR332 : Let me get this straight... You actually expect us to get angry at Qadaffi? You really think anyone in the Middle East, or the rest of the world for t
40 Falcon84 : Whatever, QR. But when those who agitate and threaten the west with destruction, like OBL, like that looney running Iran, it tells me that many of th
41 TIA : Define 'showdown', 'Islamic world' and 'West'.
42 Post contains images Pyrex : A bit surprising... like Saddam, he was never much of a religious fundamentalist - more of a secular pragmatist. I guess the African crowds we used to
43 Falcon84 : A military conflict, or the real threat of one.
44 Post contains images Windshear : I don't really think anyone takes him seriously Boaz.
45 Aither : The real issue here is the lack of reaction from the "arab world". If one European president, even a fool one, would say "Middle East people should be
46 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - well, Khaddafi does NOT want a "showdown with the West", he simply wishes the West to become Muslim, which in his views of course is wishing the We
47 TIA : There has already been a military conflict between a non-Muslim and Muslim country, so that is not saying much. There have been showdowns happening s
48 AndesSMF : Correct me if Im wrong, and I mean no disrespect, but isnt Albania a 'muslim' country? But in my head I cant conceive how to separate the Islamic wor
49 ME AVN FAN : well, an interesting thought. The official name of Morocco is al-Mamlakah al Maghrabiya which means Kingdom of the West and the whole "area" of Weste
50 TIA : Yes, Albania is a mostly Muslim country on paper, although in reality the majority is atheist or non practising. And what you just said is exactly my
51 AndesSMF : Thank you, I didnt realize what Maghreb meant, very informative. As soon as you asked your question I suddenly remember that Albania was Muslim. Than
52 TIA : No disrespect to you, but that's wrong. Albania is not part of the "Islamic world," or part of the Christian world for that matter. I don't like divi
53 L410Turbolet : Besides playing with words your point is? I guess that's just someone's wishful thinking.
54 Post contains images Doona : Unfortunately, it seems most of the leaders who strongly assume the secular pragmatist position have to be nutjobs at the same time... Cheers Mats
55 Acidradio : Where are all the Satanic cult members when you need them to get in the middle of all this?
56 TIA : I don't know who that wishful thinking was referring to, me or ME AVN FAN. But if you believe that Albania is part of the Islamic World, I've got new
57 Marco : Relax Marco, no-one in Libya is poor or starving. Whether or not they're starving is not what's important here because Libya generates enough revenue
58 ME AVN FAN : you might start to provide examples. But after some gentlemen in Riyadh and Tehran, and some people like Osama BinLaden, you will be rather narrow of
59 MD11Engineer : Related to the topic: One thing I have noticed over the last 20 years is that there seems to be a growing Arabisation of the Islamic world. While Isla
60 AndesSMF : I think that at least the line is blurred, and it may be very hard to classify who is who. But if you look at your history, it only takes very few pe
61 ME AVN FAN : I am confused. What exactly do you regard as "Arabisation" ? a radical interpretation of Islam has nothing to do with the Arab World.
62 Post contains images Solnabo : "Europe will be a muslim continent" Yeah riight, and the Vatican will be a huge mosque?? What to expect from a camel breeder...... That s.o.1000 b´s
63 MD11Engineer : though. Ok, it is a theory I've been pondering for quite a while now. Maybe "Arabisation" is the wrong word. My reasoning: Islam got spread starting f
64 TIA : Or as was the case in Albania through forced conversion and financial appeal. A large number of Christian Albanians were forced to convert to Islam d
65 Aloges : As far as I know, the Saudi royals have been under a lot of pressure from exactly the radicals you mention. As a means of appeasement, they supplied
66 Post contains images Windshear : Exactly! Wahabism and Salafism is quite scary. But neither have much to do with modern Islam, IMHO. Just a shame that this radical form of Islam is g
67 L-188 : Sorry but I can't give up Pork Chops mit Apple sause.
68 ME AVN FAN : ok, now we get nearer to the point. The "state ideology" of the KSA is Wahhabism (Abdel Wahhab) which is a radical reformatory creed of Sunni Islam.
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