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Ultra Religious Freaks: Bolder Than Ever!  
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2063 times:

So I'm helping my dad coach a 13/14 year old baseball team this summer, and yesterday we were out doing a bottle and can drive to help raise money for travel expenses this summer when we go to tournaments. I was out with two of them, and one of the the dads yesterday. He was one of the dad of one of the two I was out keeping an eye on. After a while, they came back from a house carrying two books.

They came walking up to us, and one of them says "That guy must have like Downs Syndrome or something...We asked for bottles and cans, and he was acting like he didn't understand us...then he said he didn't have any, but that he wanted us to have these books..." They handed me and the dad the books, and the title read: "The Secret Terrorists". I start thumbing through it, and this is what I see:

The table of contents had

Chapter 1: Target America
Chapter 2: President Andrew Jackson
Chapter 3: Harrison, Taylor, and Buchanan
Chapter 4: President Abraham Lincoln
Chapter 5: The Sinking Of The Titanic
Chapter 6: World War One
Chapter 7: World War Two
Chapter 8: President John F. Kennedy
Chapter 9: The Waco Massacre
Chapter 10: The Oklahoma City Bombing
Chapter 11: The World Trade Center Attack
Chapter 12: Religious Terrorism in America


I havn't finished the book yet. The chapter about the Titanic jumped out at me. I was stunned to see them blame the sinking of the Titanic on the Jesuits, and the Roman Catholic Church/The Pope. They also blamed the Jesuits for WW1 and WW2 so far. I plan on finishing the book today, just so I can have a laugh or two.


What makes me sick, is that these freaks would hand these books to a 13 year old, and a 14 year old. I mean, that is just wrong. If you have your religious views, fine. But how dare they push those views on kids they don't even know. I'm very lucky one of the kids fathers was there. And, I know the family of the second one, so I know they will be happy, and thank me for taking the book away from him if he tells mom or grandpa and grandma. I'm just getting more and more sick and tired of these ultra religious nut jobs. When they start imposing their views on kids without their parent's consent...that crosses a line.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBristolFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 2045 times:

May I suggest:



or



as a suitable end to the book.

BF



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineDrDeke From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 830 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Yeah, I know it's weird, but what is really wrong with it? You go up to someone's house asking for donations and they give you a (crazy) book. Sure you don't have to read it, but it doesn't make the person a criminal or something.

I'm against religious evangelism probably a lot more than the next guy, but I really don't see how this person is "imposing" his views on anyone. It's not like this guy was out on the streets pushing copies of his book onto the impressionable youth. I'd be surprised if most 13-14 year olds would even take two glances at a book given to them by a crazy stranger, but if the book got them to question their views on something, what's wrong with that?

-DrDeke



If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 3341 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Shred it and put it in the mailbox of the guy that gave the book.


Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 2):
but what is really wrong with it?

It isn't appropriate. If he gave me the book, I wouldn't have thought much of it. But he gave it to kids.

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 2):
but it doesn't make the person a criminal or something.

I don't believe I said it did.

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 2):
It's not like this guy was out on the streets pushing copies of his book onto the impressionable youth.

But, it is. Granted he wasn't out on the streets doing it...But the kids were asking for bottle and can donations, not reteric.

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 2):
You go up to someone's house asking for donations and they give you a (crazy) book

Exactly. Donations. Not propaganda.

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 2):
I'd be surprised if most 13-14 year olds would even take two glances at a book given to them by a crazy stranger, but if the book got them to question their views on something, what's wrong with that?

They did take two looks at it, and asked me what it was. I had to be careful with my words, and explain they were blaming a certain religion for all these tragic events in history. What's wrong with it? The fact that they gave it to the kids! Give it to an adult if you want, but you don't assume the kids' parents are ok with it.


It's no different than when I was in middle school, and as we left school to walk home, some nut was handing out copies of the Bible to us as we left. I felt it was very inapropriate to do so, and so did my parents. That crap ended when several other parents went to the school with mine.


User currently offlineClipperHawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

I would like for you to name this group and expose them. Let's see what group espouses this lunacy.


"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 4):

It's no different than when I was in middle school, and as we left school to walk home, some nut was handing out copies of the Bible to us as we left. I felt it was very inapropriate to do so, and so did my parents. That crap ended when several other parents went to the school with mine.

That is happening more and more frequently now. At the college I go to, these Christian fundies set up a booth in front of the Cafeteria/Commons area, and they just bother everyone going in, and try to hand out bibles. I find it offensive not only because I don't like to be bothered, but also because I feel it infringes on my rights. I'm agnostic. A couple of them from the booth are in my Western Civ. class, and all they do is rant and rave about how terrible the Catholics are, as well as Muslims and Charles Darwin, etc. I think that because of the recent power they are taking in this country, they are getting bolder and bolder. Either way, its very annoying. The people you describe at that house are some of the typical fundies I've had to deal with as of late.

-Copa


User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 5):
I would like for you to name this group and expose them. Let's see what group espouses this lunacy.

It's hard to tell exactly who is making these accusations. I have a feeling that it could be multiple parties involved...but one group that jumps out at me is the Orthodox Christians. I'm still reading, though.


User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

Is there a name in this book or published by?

Anytime I see an attack against the Catholic Church, the usual suspects come to mind. And of course the rest of the intelligent world just shrugs off these malcontents who print these type of hate books off as insignificant in their hate. In other words, they waste trees and their own money.

I'll pray for them today. LOL Which is more than what they would ever consider doing for me.

Enjoy the laughs from this book. Then dump it in the trash where it belongs.



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineCasInterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

For those that would like to examine it all, I offer you the online version.
Nutcases web site Smile

I didn't link straight to the book, but it is on that page. These guys are complete nuts.
For future note: Anything this ridiculus probably has a lot of info on the net, google for it next time if you are curious.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
"That guy must have like Downs Syndrome or something...We asked for bottles and cans, and he was acting like he didn't understand us...then he said he didn't have any, but that he wanted us to have these books..."

I actually find this just as alarming as the content of the book. Your 13/14 year old baseball team members should know better than to make assumptions or joke about peoples' disabilities. Also, they should know not to take anything from strangers except that which they are asking for. They should have been told how to decline unwanted items in a courteous manner, and they should have been warned about how to deal with people who might invite them inside or otherwise act inappropriately when they visited the door.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't send out a bunch of 13/14 year olds without direct supervision in the first place. I'd have at least one adult per two or three pairs, so that the adult could keep an eye on each pair to make sure they weren't being taken inside, assaulted, etc.

Door to door solicitation needs to be supervised just like Halloween trick-or-treating.


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineMuddydwagon From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 657 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1913 times:

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
I was out with two of them, and one of the the dads yesterday. He was one of the dad of one of the two I was out keeping an eye on. After a while, they came back from a house carrying two books.

Sounds like supervision to me.

Cheers Peter


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

Website excerpt:

" On April 19, 1993 agents of the United States government attacked their compound and murdered helpless women and children with battle tanks, flame-throwers, and poison gas. "

...Did I miss something that happened at Waco?

...

"Those four BATF agents, who were bodyguards of Bill Clinton, were killed by their own people!"

Yeah... file under looney bin...


User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 10):
Your 13/14 year old baseball team members should know better than to make assumptions or joke about peoples' disabilities. Also, they should know not to take anything from strangers except that which they are asking for. They should have been told how to decline unwanted items in a courteous manner, and they should have been warned about how to deal with people who might invite them inside or otherwise act inappropriately when they visited the door.

Excuse me? Where in the hell do you get off telling me I wasn't properly supervising them??!!

Since you obviously have no clue what you are talking about, I'll fill you in on the speach that was given to them before we set out. I'll then outline how they were supervised, so you can extract that foot you just shoved down your throat.

They were informed NEVER, under any circumstances to enter a person's house for any reason. They were told how to decline that kind of offer politely: "I'm sorry, we can't do that. We need to wait outside, and collect them here." They were then told if the person persists, trying to convince them it's ok, to walk away. Is that good enough for you? Does that qualify us to coach this team now? Or would you like to continue to say out un-fit I am to supervise kids?

As for while we were out. We followed them from the street, making sure they weren't abducted. They were also told never to leave the sight of the adult supervising them, which, to my knowlage was followed strictly. No problems were repoted by the fathers who assisted us yesterday. Each father that was with us, was also assigned to his own son, and another kid. The only exception was the grandfather of our set of twins, who is ex-military, and worse than I am about making sure the kids don't enter houses.


And, in case you havn't noticed, it doesn't matter what you tell kids, and how many times you tell them, it is still awkward for them when a person hands them an item like a book. They were told not to accept anything that looked dangerous, etc. But for crying out loud, it's a book. I will tell you right now that even though none of the kids on this team are my own son, I would protect them as though they were all the same if put in a situation that required it. I take great offense to you questioning my ability to watch after these kids.


User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting Muddydwagon (Reply 11):
Sounds like supervision to me.

You really shouldn't make comments like that, since you weren't there. You have no idea where we were standing during that time.

Don't comment on that which you have no clue.


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 10):
I actually find this just as alarming as the content of the book. Your 13/14 year old baseball team members should know better than to make assumptions or joke about peoples' disabilities. Also, they should know not to take anything from strangers except that which they are asking for. They should have been told how to decline unwanted items in a courteous manner, and they should have been warned about how to deal with people who might invite them inside or otherwise act inappropriately when they visited the door.

Often times, these fundies force the thing into the hands of people. C'mon, these are kids too. It sounds as if S12PPL was watching them, and the person at the door did sound like a nutcase, handing out this sort of literature. As I have stated earlier, I have to deal with this sort of stuff from these sort of people all the time. These kids probably didn't know what to do when a person like that handed this over than the wanted bottles or cans. Red, would you still be defending this if it was Islamic literature given to the kids, or would you be decrying the action?

-Copa


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

I'm sorry if I didn't read this paragraph correctly, but it wasn't clear to me that you were watching them very closely since they came back with books that you didn't know about.

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
So I'm helping my dad coach a 13/14 year old baseball team this summer ... I was out keeping an eye on. After a while, they came back from a house carrying two books.



Quoting S12PPL (Reply 13):
They were then told if the person persists, trying to convince them it's ok, to walk away.

I'm glad you were supervising them, and that you gave them good information - but based on your reaction to them getting something other than bottles or cans, I have to wonder why you didn't tell them to do in that scenario.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 13):
But for crying out loud, it's a book.

Ahhh, but there's the rub. You are the one who characterizes the book as "making you sick" and the person handing it out as a "freak" and "ultra religious nut job" without even knowing the person. You are the one who, in your original post, characterized the book as if it was a weapon and the act of handing it out as offensive. You are the one acting as if a crime was committed. So which way do you want it?

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 15):
Often times, these fundies force the thing into the hands of people.

Did he hold a gun to their heads? No. They could have handed it back, left it on his doorstep, etc. The appropriate response would have been, "No thank you, I've got to go now."

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 15):
Red, would you still be defending this if it was Islamic literature given to the kids, or would you be decrying the action?

I don't care what kind of literature it is - the kids should have been told not to accept anything other than what they went for, and not to take anything else. Again, the appropriate response would have been, "No thank you, I've got to go now."


I'm not defending the content of the book. It sounds like a work based on anti-Catholic conspiracy theories and most logical people would toss it. But that doesn't mean that you have the right to characterize the person who handed it out as a "nut job," "nutcase," "pusher" - especially when you do not know the person. The kids learned that they could make assumptions about people they don't know - that the man has "Downs Syndrome or something" and get away with it. You're ranting about them being handed something that was entirely benign in the context of what they could have been given. What if they had been given pot? Beer? LSD? That would have been a real crime.



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3499 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
President Andrew Jackson

If Indian Removal wasn't terrorism, I don't know what is.

Other than that, bullshit.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 16):
Did he hold a gun to their heads? No. They could have handed it back, left it on his doorstep, etc. The appropriate response would have been, "No thank you, I've got to go now."



Quoting Redngold (Reply 16):

I don't care what kind of literature it is - the kids should have been told not to accept anything other than what they went for, and not to take anything else. Again, the appropriate response would have been, "No thank you, I've got to go now."

Red- Were you present when these kids got the literature? You weren't, but S12PPL was, and he offered his insight on it. It is easy to say what someone should have done when you weren't there observing what happened. You also should realize these are kids, not an adult like you or me. Dealing with these sort of people is hard for me, and I'm two months off of 20. These are 13-14 year old kids. If it were me at that age, I would have said something to them, but these kids seem nicer.

-Copa

[Edited 2006-05-08 02:39:04]

User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1809 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 18):
Red- Were you present when these kids got the literature? You weren't, but S12PPL was, and he offered his insight on it.

He said that "they came back from a house carrying two books" which means he only learned second-hand about how they got them. His "insight" seems nearly as inflammatory as the contents of the book. I take exception to that overreaction.



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
I havn't finished the book yet. The chapter about the Titanic jumped out at me. I was stunned to see them blame the sinking of the Titanic on the Jesuits, and the Roman Catholic Church/The Pope. They also blamed the Jesuits for WW1 and WW2 so far. I plan on finishing the book today, just so I can have a laugh or two.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Now, THAT'S one I haven't heard of!

Thanks, S12! You just made my day!

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

Sure red, but you weren't at the house. They may not have been at the door, but then again, I don't think 13/14 year old kids need to have their hands held when they go door to door looking for donations. His insight as inflammatory as the book? Give me a break. He and the father who was with him were both there in the immediate area, while you weren't anywhere close, yet you seem to think you know more than them on this? Where exactly did that come from?

-Copa


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

Too bad you wern't collecting newspapers, or other paper items as well for recycling. You could have added those books to the pile for the recycler, a suitable way to treat trash like that.

User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1751 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
That guy must have like Downs Syndrome or something

I find this sentence as appalling as the book. Is this what these parents teaching their children? Make fun of special kids?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 23):
I find this sentence as appalling as the book. Is this what these parents teaching their children? Make fun of special kids?

I think you don't spend much time around kids. Kids say stupid shit all the time. I know the mother of the kid very well, and she is very religious. She was constantly approaching me and my dad last summer when we had her two twin boys on our team asking "Are Aaron and James behaving?" "Are they acting up?" "Are they demonstrating good behavior to the rest of the team?" Kids are kids. They pick a disease or disability, and use it in a joking context. Please don't question the mother. She's a good person.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 16):
I'm sorry if I didn't read this paragraph correctly, but it wasn't clear to me that you were watching them very closely since they came back with books that you didn't know about.

No, I don't hover over their shoulders every second they are under my care, if that is what you are asking. I don't invade their privacy, and I don't smother them. I let them do whatever they want when they are under my supervision, so long as it doesn't endanger them in any way, or open myself up to a situation that would question my carracter, I.E. letting them watch movies that I don't know their parents would approve ove etc.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 16):
Ahhh, but there's the rub. You are the one who characterizes the book as "making you sick" and the person handing it out as a "freak" and "ultra religious nut job" without even knowing the person. You are the one who, in your original post, characterized the book as if it was a weapon and the act of handing it out as offensive. You are the one acting as if a crime was committed. So which way do you want it?

I knew when I hit the "post" button, I would get this response. What I meant was that it was a book. It's not like the guy was offering them porn, where I'd know exactly what their response would be. It was a book, and any 13/14 year old would be in a strange situation there. It isn't blatently offensive by reading the cover. "The Secret Terrorists". It makes any person curious. Even myself. However, I'm 22. I have a little more life experience than they do. So did the father with me. When they held the books out to us, we knew it wasn't something they should have been given as minors, and took them right away. Had the guy offered them booze, or porn...I think it's pretty well known they would have refused it straight away. But this was a book that looks innocent enough to a 13/14 year old by the cover. That's what I mean by "It's just a book".

Quoting Redngold (Reply 16):
Did he hold a gun to their heads? No. They could have handed it back, left it on his doorstep, etc. The appropriate response would have been, "No thank you, I've got to go now."

Again, they are kids. And two kids that have been taught to respect adults. I know this for a fact. I've gotten to know the father that was with me, and I know the family of the other kid. The father has approached me twice now and told me "If _______ ever talks back to you, you can deal with it however you see fit, and then you tell me, too." The other kid, grandpa is a strict one with him and his brother. If they act out, he is quick to put them in their place.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 16):
I don't care what kind of literature it is - the kids should have been told not to accept anything other than what they went for, and not to take anything else. Again, the appropriate response would have been, "No thank you, I've got to go now."


I'm not defending the content of the book. It sounds like a work based on anti-Catholic conspiracy theories and most logical people would toss it. But that doesn't mean that you have the right to characterize the person who handed it out as a "nut job," "nutcase," "pusher" - especially when you do not know the person. The kids learned that they could make assumptions about people they don't know - that the man has "Downs Syndrome or something" and get away with it. You're ranting about them being handed something that was entirely benign in the context of what they could have been given. What if they had been given pot? Beer? LSD? That would have been a real crime.

I can respect most of this. However, the speech was given to them before we set out yesterday. All I can do is tell them. They have to be the ones to actually follow through. Put yourself in a kids shoes, though.

Another situation from yesterday:

The same group I was with rang a door bell. No answer after a long wait. They went on. Later on while I was with them, the lady answers her door as we are on the opposite side of the street. "Did you ring my door bell?!" They answer "Yes. We are doing a bottle drive for our baseball team, and were just trying to see if you had anything you were willing to donate..." Her response was nasty, and harsh. "Well don't just ring my door bell and walk away!!" One of the boys tried to be nice, and said "Well, we waited for at least a minute before we left..." To which she responded yelling "Well don't just ring the bell and walk away! It's rude!"

There is no winning with a person like that, so I just stepped in front of him, and said "We're sorry to have disturbed you. Have a nice morning."


25 Mt99 : What kind of excuse is that? Should kids pick Race or Religion and use it in a "joking context"? I dont think so. . That does not make it right. I ho
26 S12PPL : Don't they all ready without help? We don't allow them to joke like that at team events. And, I know they don't around their parents. But kids do it
27 Mt99 : If a kids actions are not reflective on the parenting - i dont know what that is. What makes team events different? It not that - Its insulting to a
28 S12PPL : No...I'm not, thank-you. No one is insulting your sister. You are taking things just a wee bit too seriously, don't you think? And you didn't answer
29 Mt99 : You said no one would believe me - so why would i answer? You didnt answer mine either..
30 S12PPL : So in other words, it's pot, kettle, black? Thought so. As for Simple. They aren't around their parents. It's very very rare any kids on this team ev
31 Mt99 : Dont be silly. But at 12/14 years old - kids should begin to have an idea of what is right and what is wrong. You could have said: "Hey - that commen
32 S12PPL : Oh my gosh...are you seriously going to judge me?? Are YOU really going to judge ME? After you blew this out of proportion just because your sister h
33 Mt99 : But i havent. So whats your point?
34 S12PPL : You are generalizing. Saying everyone is insulting your sister because they picked on Downs, when in fact they aren't even talking about your sister.
35 Mt99 : You'd be just as upset if someone made an insentive comment about people suffering from cancer. Is picking on Downs better than picking on cancer? No
36 BigOrange : Maybe they should, but most don't, myself included. When I was that age, I remember in school we used to make fun of people with disabilities. No it
37 S12PPL : The big deal is handing these books to kids, without their parent's consent. Period. How would you feel if some stranger gave your child a copy of a
38 BigOrange : Actually, no I wouldn't. If my kids (if I had any) were given a book with differing views than mine, they would be free to read it. Once they had rea
39 S12PPL : I find that hard to believe. If some stranger just handed your kids something you thought was not appropriate, I find it very hard to believe you wou
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