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Reverse Immigration USA-India  
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1351 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

I heard this from a fellow doctor, who is also Indian. What do you think?

Because America is going down the toilet, politically, academically, financially, etc., the future generation of Indians (and for the purposes of argument, other Asians) will firsthand note the rot inside America and actually emigrate to their "mother" countries of China, India, etc.

I have strong doubts about this theory. First of all, the Indian kids growing up now are firmly entrenched Americans, and I don't think they have the balls or cojones like our parents did to emigrate to a strange land and start over.

Second, it's not like those countries who could potentially take these new "immigrants" actually need their ilk anyway in terms of jobs and thus visas won't be handed out like candy.

Again, what do you all think?

Tex


Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

There will always be some Indians who will go back, as many have already done so in the past 5 years given the more favorable investment and business climate in India. Moreover, many of the earlier generations of engineers, doctors, etc. who comprised the first big wave of Indian professionals immigrating to the US are choosing to retire in India (for that matter many Americans are choosing to retire in Mexico as their retirement dollars stretch further).

However, this has not slowed emigration from India to the US. The lines at US Embassies for visas and green cards are just as long, if not longer.

Those who were born in the US or came here at a very young age are culturally American and while they may have visited India numerous times, (and may even choose to do a year abroad in India while in college), moving to India will be very hard.

Perhaps over the decades to come, India will not be as large a source of immigrants as it is today. Look at Ireland, for instance. Or Italy. As they became more prosperous, fewer of their people moved to the US. However, very few of those who did emigrate to the US, went back.

Besides, lets not forget that anything can happen in India. Socialism can rear its ugly head again, and the economy could tank.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Because America is going down the toilet, politically, academically, financially, etc., the future generation of Indians (and for the purposes of argument, other Asians) will firsthand note the rot inside America and actually emigrate to their "mother" countries of China, India, etc.


My guess is that if that were to happen as your friend predicts, the folks back home who stuck it out would probably speculate that these returnees of privilege were out for the main chance, no?

I'll be happy to have Sir Walter Scott printed on a postcard and send it to all these folks he's talking about.

Breathes there the man with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
"This is my own, my native land!"
Whose heart hath ne'er within him burn'd
As home his footsteps he hath turn'd
From wandering on a foreign strand?
If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
For him no Minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung.

-- Sir Walter Scott

[Edited 2006-05-15 21:33:34]

User currently offlineLH477 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 584 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
I have strong doubts about this theory. First of all, the Indian kids growing up now are firmly entrenched Americans, and I don't think they have the balls or cojones like our parents did to emigrate to a strange land and start over.

I tend to agree. India is still a third world country. Most Americans/Canadians of Indian descent would find India too dirty, too poor, too chaotic, too dusty, too hot. They have gotten far too comfortable in US/Canada to even consider going back to the old country. They likely don't have the fortitude to emigrate back.

I too am thinking about going back to India after finishing my graduate studies. I actually do enjoy the physical India. There is something mystical about the old country that the mechanical and quiet often souless North America just doesn't have.



Come on you gunners......!!!!!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Quoting LH477 (Reply 3):
They have gotten far too comfortable in US/Canada to even consider going back to the old country. They likely don't have the fortitude to emigrate back.

Why is this an issue of fortitude?

The history of the world is replete with the migration of people from places of limited opportunity to a place where they can succeed. It is but a natural course of events that's been played out over and over again.

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Because America is going down the toilet, politically, academically, financially, etc., the future generation of Indians (and for the purposes of argument, other Asians) will firsthand note the rot inside America and actually emigrate to their "mother" countries of China, India, etc.

We've heard this before and we'll hear it again.
The US is still a very vital cultural and economic force. Yes, we've had a temporary setback with the war in Iraq, a thuggish President, etc. But that having been said, said President has done a relatively decent job on the economy, even if he's been an abject failure everywhere else. This sense of malaise that America is on skid row is just that, and it will diminish with new leadership.


User currently offlineDeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

I was born and raised in the US, and while I love visiting my family back in India, the thought of moving there for good NEVER crosses my mind.

Again, my family is upper-middle class and lives well, but let's be honest, the country itself is way too over-crowded, the standard of living there is far poorer than anything here, and especially for me, I am a huge meat eater. I love a thick steak - can't get that there.

I can definately see people who come over here heading back since they have grown up there, but I would seriously doubt that most American born Indians would pick up and move.

Plus, you think the US government is corrupt??


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 5):
Plus, you think the US government is corrupt??

Amen.

The level of bribery, corruption, and pettiness seen in India when dealing with the government is mind boggling.


User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1622 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 2):
I'll be happy to have Sir Walter Scott printed on a postcard and send it to all these folks he's talking about.

Dougloid, every kid in India that went to an english medium school knows that poem by heart....

Here is the tricky thing about immigration - how do you give up your country of birth and take your adopted country to heart? I think this simply doesn't happen in the first generation. You are deeply grateful, thankful ,and love living in the USA, but you can't betray the country you were born in - caught between two loves, I guess.

I think often the patrioitism issue gets confused with the workforce globalization issue. If a lot of immigrants here want to go back, that is perfectly reasonable and honorable, they were just here to work. When you become a citizen, however, should you just be able to jump ship for greener pastures?

This gets even more confusing when you apply it to the US. This is after all a country built on immigrants who ditched the old country, (therefore unpatriotic, as per Sir W) in search of a better life. So how can we apply a different standard to those that want to leave now?


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1610 times:

There will always be some from our generation (1st Generation) that will go back. For sure many of those who have immigrated to the US may/will go back. Many of the first wave of immigrants who are retiring choose to divide their time living in the two countries as many of them have spent so many years here.

For me personally, as much as I think India may be fun. I can't see myself living there permanently. I would be more likely to move to another Western country first than going there.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1596 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
Because America is going down the toilet, politically, academically, financially, etc., the future generation of Indians (and for the purposes of argument, other Asians) will firsthand note the rot inside America and actually emigrate to their "mother" countries of China, India, etc.

That is identical to Marxist Leninist theory, which predicted that the Western democracies would rot away from within. That propaganda pops up now and again.

The facts are zjaz in terms of standard of living, crime rates, etc. Every single democracy is on a solid positive trend, and has been for ages.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 7):
Here is the tricky thing about immigration - how do you give up your country of birth and take your adopted country to heart? I think this simply doesn't happen in the first generation. You are deeply grateful, thankful ,and love living in the USA, but you can't betray the country you were born in - caught between two loves, I guess.

I'd say the opposite is true. First generation imigrants are often the ones who made the leap and emmigrated. I find that they are frequently far more patriotic than people who have been living there for generations, because they don't take the country for granted.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1594 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
I have strong doubts about this theory. First of all, the Indian kids growing up now are firmly entrenched Americans, and I don't think they have the balls or cojones like our parents did to emigrate to a strange land and start over.

I do not believe that folks will want to leave America for better opportunities elsewhere, with minor exceptions. Such exceptions would include, for example, politically discontented individuals, ranging from Hollywood stars to average citizens. I've read of a very few Americans who now call Canada their home, for example. But again, these are rarities.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1594 times:

Quoting Comorin (Reply 7):
Here is the tricky thing about immigration - how do you give up your country of birth and take your adopted country to heart? I think this simply doesn't happen in the first generation. You are deeply grateful, thankful ,and love living in the USA, but you can't betray the country you were born in - caught between two loves, I guess.

True. It was aimed at the people this friend of Texdravid posits that, born in the states they're going to bugger off to wherever the parents came from after looking around at the impending collapse of Festung Amerika...at least that's what it sounded like.

Personally, I do not think that many folks of the Asian persuasion are that spineless and lacking in character. I'd hazard a guess they've got a lot more spine than this friend of Texdravid thinks.

And if it's true? For those who remain out of conviction, or like myself have no place I call home other than this land (I'd quote the Bard about this sceptred isle but it was already taken), well, the air will be a lot fresher when we see all the people off on the plane who do not seem to want to be here. Their place will, I am sure, be gladly taken by those who yearn to breathe free.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1590 times:

All I can say is that for any Indian who wants to go back, there are 10 who would gladly take his/her place.

User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
heard this from a fellow doctor, who is also Indian. What do you think?

Texdravid, your friend deserves to go back on Air India!  Wink

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
Their place will, I am sure, be gladly taken by those who yearn to breathe free.

 thumbsup 
...and those who yearn for indoor plumbing...


America treats its immigrants very, very well- like being turned left when boarding a flight. In turn, immigrants try their very best to repay the kindness and generosity of a host country by working really hard to succeed. I am still amazed that the only job left you cannot aspire to within a generation is POTUS. There are absolutely no class or color barriers, nor any insidious cultural barriers to success in the USA ( But you gotta speak in English!).


User currently offlineLAS757300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 5):
Again, my family is upper-middle class and lives well, but let's be honest, the country itself is way too over-crowded, the standard of living there is far poorer than anything here, and especially for me, I am a huge meat eater. I love a thick steak - can't get that there.


I could see a good number of first generation Indians returning for reasons already stated upthread. Most will stay. No matter how fast the Indian economy grows in the next twenty years living standards will still be far below Western standards. The demographic situation in China will spread the resources available elderly quite thin, making returning returning unattractive for Chinesse imigrants.

[Edited 2006-05-16 04:55:37]


KMSP
User currently offlineDETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

I think as India prospers it will be more attractive as a place to live and settle. I think many first generation emigrants will probably be lured to return especially to retire. It makes sense if you grew up in India, especially for those who still have family back in India and for whom English is not a primary language. It's not that uncommon, the U.S. has never kept figures on emigration but almost half of all Italians that emigrated to the U.S. returned, some came back but others were only here temporarily. Throughout the 1930s emigrants outnumbered immigrants.

My parents emigrated from Portugal to the U.S. in 1970 and 1978 respectively and both are returning there for good next year as many of their generation have already done so. I don't think they did it because they were ungrateful for the economic opportunities the United States gave them, but rather they wanted to live in a place where the people spoke their language and be surrounded by family members as they get older.

I myself was born in the U.S. but live in the UK due to the fact that I possess an EU passport. Because I chose to live here does not make me an unpatriotic or anti-American. I just happen to really like London a lot, which is why I live here rather than in the U.S. Perhaps some people should keep that in mind, just because one chooses to live abroad it does not mean he or she is against a country, and it's a bit narrow-minded to make that assumption.


User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

That's excellent news. They are much more needed in the country of origin, and much better respected there. They can live a very comfortable life while at the same time being close to their families, their roots, their culture.

The life of an immigrant is never settled, as he/she has seen both sides of the world. Many who live in the third world and had a decent life never did their dishes, never had to clean their houses, never had to wash clothes etc as there was always someone hired to do that kind of stuff. If you have ever heard someone say that folks in North America are always on the go, always looking at shortcuts to the amount of time it takes to complete a task etc, it's absolutely true because when it comes to life in North America, one is subjected to 10x the amount of daily work, be it a doctor, a nurse or otherwise, as chances are, they do not have help around the house, have to commute like crazy, too busy at work, and almost always, one's self comes last.

When immigrants eventually realize that they can live better, be treated and compensated better, and even help their own countrymen by applying their own skills back in the country they came from, it would simply be too hard to shrug the temptation off and continue waking up at 5AM and not going back to bed before 11PM.

Finally, what's even more interesting is how expatriates who work in third world countries and live "the life" have a hard time returning to their own countries. It is simply too comfortable.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Actually on the news the other night they had a story about american engineers moving to india for work.

They just think that with all the outsourcing the opportunities are better there for gaining work experience when they decide to come back home.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
rot inside America

I think this idea is extremely exaggerated.

Sure we'll see some reverse immigration, will it be enough to be an event of importance? I very much doubt it.




-NWA742

[Edited 2006-05-16 07:22:52]

User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

Well this guy is not my "friend". He is a first generation desi doctor much older than me.

However, his point cannot entirely be written off. Why? I don't think he meant that today or tomorrow that America is going to lose her standard of living.

But what about 30-50 years from now? Do you really think America will be number one then? This has nothing to do with Bush, Republicans or Democrats. This has to do with America's hapless education system, its glorification of athletics/entertainment at the expense of more education and hard work, the overwhelming social-nanny-welfare state that will only grow, the hapless underclass that needs and desires aforementioned welfare state, the freespending political dunderheads in Washington, and our woeful bloodletting in Iraq, and our feeble enforcement on the border.

America needs a swift kick in the ass to awaken her, or my "friend" may entirely be right, maybe not now, but certainly by mid-21st century.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 19):
But what about 30-50 years from now? Do you really think America will be number one then? This has nothing to do with Bush, Republicans or Democrats. This has to do with America's hapless education system, its glorification of athletics/entertainment at the expense of more education and hard work, the overwhelming social-nanny-welfare state that will only grow, the hapless underclass that needs and desires aforementioned welfare state, the freespending political dunderheads in Washington, and our woeful bloodletting in Iraq, and our feeble enforcement on the border.

Thirty years ago when large waves of Indian immigrants were coming to the United States one could have said the same - a hapless educational system enduring the worst of busing and segregation, glorification of athletes over other achievers (Joe Namath and Wilt Chamberlain were far more revered than Watson or Crick), the nanny welfare system was at its peak, the Vietnam was was in its death throes, etc., etc., etc. Plus, many Indian immigrants had to endure racism and/or a glass ceiling that generally doesn't exist today. Thus, I would say that things are much better today than they were then. Yes, the kind of cradle to grave security that existed back in the 70s and early 80s for professionals doesn't exist today, but does it exist in India? No.

Moreover, even if the Indian economy grew at 10% annually (which it isn't), it would take over more than 50 years to completely eradicate poverty and bring the country's lifestyle up to par with that of the US.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20541 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1442 times:

This has been an interesting read, but I can't help detect a certain tone of cherry-picking going on by this friend. Leave their native soil, come to America to make something of themselves, then worry about if the U.S. will be able to sustain the style of life he has accustomed himself to.

Instead of wondering about whether his welcome had worn out or not, I would be trying to make my chosen home a better place, rather than taking the money and running.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1436 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
This has been an interesting read, but I can't help detect a certain tone of cherry-picking going on by this friend.

I think it appears to be a wistful taking stock of one's life and wondering if one made the right decision. Hindsight is always 20-20, and often its not even that.


User currently offlineSingaporegirl From Singapore, joined Oct 2000, 302 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1425 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 21):
This has been an interesting read

i agree. actually this thread reminds me of my husband. as a young banker (in his late 20s), he left new york (he was born and raised there) and took this job here in singapore. i suppose it is a type of reverse immigration, as most people would think that there are more singaporeans who would move to the states than the other way around.

before we got married, i asked if he would stay in singapore or move back to new york. and he said; yes new york is one of the greatest cities on earth, but in singapore he'd have a much, much, higher standard of living (even though s'pore is not a third world country by any means). he could live comfortably in manhattan with the sallary that he's making now, but for the past 10 years or so he chose to stay in singapore because he's accustomed to the expat lifestyle that he's been enjoying here: a great flat by orchard road, live-in maid, a luxury car, a vacation villa in bali, etc, etc. so when i read this thread, i wonder if the friend of the thread starter wanted to have that super upscale lifestyle in india, which is probably a little bit easier to attain there than in the us.

sometimes i still wonder if one day my husband would want to move back to the states. but i think for now, he's quite content with the life that we both share here in singapore.



Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
User currently offlineLH477 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 584 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
True. It was aimed at the people this friend of Texdravid posits that, born in the states they're going to bugger off to wherever the parents came from after looking around at the impending collapse of Festung Amerika...at least that's what it sounded like.

Personally, I do not think that many folks of the Asian persuasion are that spineless and lacking in character. I'd hazard a guess they've got a lot more spine than this friend of Texdravid thinks.

And if it's true? For those who remain out of conviction, or like myself have no place I call home other than this land (I'd quote the Bard about this sceptred isle but it was already taken), well, the air will be a lot fresher when we see all the people off on the plane who do not seem to want to be here. Their place will, I am sure, be gladly taken by those who yearn to breathe free.

breathe free....depends on which country you are talking about...with India, thats a bit rich....Many indians are willing to emigrate to West not because they are oppresed but because they want to make money. Many first generations Indians (I sorta am, emigrated here in Primary grade) love
US/Canada for the opportunity they have, but really don't consider it home.
Home will always be India. They don't fully integrate into the culture.


Quoting Jaysit (Reply 4):
Why is this an issue of fortitude?

The history of the world is replete with the migration of people from places of limited opportunity to a place where they can succeed. It is but a natural course of events that's been played out over and over again.

Forttitude is a strong word. What I meant is that many are far too comfortable with their current status to emigrate. From my own experience and many I know, our family was doing quiet well in India, the West offered even a greater opportunity to gain Wealth. My parents had to give it up and come to Canada to start again. Most Indians who emigrate out to US/Canada are the professionals who do quiet well in India.

You are right that the lines are countless at embassies of Indians wanting to emigrate to the west, but many recent immigrants I talk to still miss the old country. Many have packed up and moved back. Some still want the insanity of India instead of sanity of the west.

I have the fortune/misfortune of growing up in both cultures, so I have attachements both ways. For myself, I consider myself Canadian, and am culturally Canadian too, but something about India thats making me want to pack up and relocate. But the attachement to Canada is strong also.

Something about India****
The monsoons
Diwali
Holi
The Monsoons
The Mango Season
Mumbai

Something about Canada****
Clean
Toronto
Different Ethnicities and cultures
Toronto Maple Leafs
Toronto
Lick's Nature burges



Come on you gunners......!!!!!
25 AerospaceFan : With all due respect to those who may differ, America is a country, not a gold mine. As I see it, if you immigrate to this country, you are obligated
26 Dougloid : It's kinda sad to think that all some folks see here is an opportunity to cash in. It's quite easy to detect, though. One of my fellow grad students
27 Jaysit : She may be a contemptible boor (or boar since we're on the topic of swine), but graduate fellowships (especially in the sciences) are not awarded to
28 LH477 : This is unacceptable behaviour. Just a rich ungraceful brat. I knew quiet a few South Asians while in UNI who were on government backed loans to pay
29 Captaink : But we are not talking about the rest of asia for example China. They are coming up in the world, cities like Bejing and Shanghai are quite top class.
30 Jaysit : Given that there are over 2 million of us in the US with an increasing number of citizens being added to the ranks, I reckon that the overwhelming ma
31 DeltaDC9 : A few of my Italian relatives returned to Italy after WWII to put what they learned to work. That was the exception, not the rule though. I think the
32 Post contains images CPDC10-30 : Its not only Indians - many Chinese in Canada have returned both to HK SAR and the PRC itself. Economic immigration is hardly a recent trend, its just
33 Post contains links DETA737 : I actually managed to find statistics on the emigration rates form the United States on the web, showing about 1% of the U.S. population emigrates eve
34 Dougloid : Nice.....national myth, Soviet style attitude....got anything else you want to get off your chest there? I mean, you're in London so you know, right?
35 DETA737 : I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly, nowhere did I claim to speak for all people, I would never make generalisations and I never tend to u
36 LH477 : Many that I know will stayed here for decades, raise families, contribute to society, but always have yearning to go back. They tend to retire and sp
37 Dougloid : That alone makes your story more credible and serves to undercut much of what you were arguing for. See, unlike you I do not believe that the prime m
38 Cfalk : This is true. My brother-in-law is German, and he got transfered to California. After 10 years, he got transfered home. Not everyone wants to stay in
39 AerospaceFan : I don't think that there is a country more generous to newcomers than the United States, so it's disappointing to me when folks don't appreciate all
40 Post contains images Comorin : Apologies, I was going to respond this seriously...
41 Dougloid : Look no further than Mexico. Here's a little something from my blog, The Dougloid Papers today. Immigration Equity in a Nutshell: Everything You Alwa
42 Post contains images TRVYYZ : Seems like you got a b.tech from there only a guess
43 Post contains images Comorin : I am afraid that will have to remain a secret
44 DeltaDC9 : Cant agree with that, unless you have lived in a facist or other oppressive government, you simply cannot understand. Almost all the Italians in this
45 Jaysit : Seems like he couldn't get in.
46 Post contains images Comorin : Good try!
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