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Enron: Do You Think That Jury Will Say, "Guilty"?  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

The jury is currently deliberating the fate of Ken Lay. From what you know, do you think that the jury should find him guilty or not guilty of the crimes for which he is charged?

If he is found guilty, what do you think should be his sentence?

Thanks in advance for your responses.  Smile

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

They better find him guilty. Either the Federal Penal system gets him, or the lynch mob of former Enron employees will.. I'd rather be in the pen than waiting for some whackjob ex-employee to find my door and put a few pieces of lead in me.

If he is found guilty he should never make one single cent again. Every penny he earns goes to those former employees him and his cronies put out of a job with their creative accounting. It wouldn't be much, but damn sure those former employees would have some sense of satisfaction.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Lay came off as an arrogant, argumentative SOB. The jury--whether it is valid or not--will remember that.

He should fry. So should Skilling. They've plead ignorance to the whole thing and it's ridiculous.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

Well, juries have surprised experts before.  Smile

Lay's testimony, I heard, was unhelpful to him. I doubt that the judge was impressed, either. If the jury finds him guilty, then I feel that the punishment will probably include some significant prison time.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Never try to guess a jury..but I hope these guys are found guilty, and enjoy the life of a country club federal pen.

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2444 times:

As regards captains of industry who are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, there's something to be said for the idea that irrespective of how "country club" these prisons are, a term of years for these folks might as well be a life sentence, since they're generally no spring chickens.

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6455 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2419 times:
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As a former Enron employee, I hope they both get guilty veridicts, a long prison sentence, and stripped of every penny, which should go to the older Enron employees who lost their savings and now you see them at Wal-Mart welcoming you at the entrance.

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

Ken Lay should be stripped of every penny and given a 5 year sentence for every employee that lost a job because of him. a life sentence would be too easy for him. Every penny he gets in prison for working whatever should go to a fund for former Enron employees. I bet Ken Lay is shaking in his boots right now. HA HA!!! I wish the former Enron employees the BEST of luck in chewing this bastard up and spitting him back into the sewer he crawled out of.

User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

I'll bet anything that he will be found guilty partly because he is, and partly because the public outcry due to the WorldCom/Enron scandals require that a few pigs need to be slaughtered to satiate the masses.

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

In that case, gas prices would be far lower and illegal immigration would be under control. I suspect that there are certain things that public outcries don't effectively address, at least until things reach a boil.

However, you could very well be right.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 9):
In that case, gas prices would be far lower and illegal immigration would be under control. I

Point taken. However, placing influences on judges in this case is much easier than inventing a perpetual motion machine, finding a large amount of clean burning alternative fuel, or solving the quagmire of cheap labor vs. legal migration.

Mediocre politicians have a habit of changing what they perceive as being changeable. Great politicians have a habit of changing that which they perceive as being immoral.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 10):
Mediocre politicians have a habit of changing what they perceive as being changeable. Great politicians have a habit of changing that which they perceive as being immoral.

The latter kind of politician is rarer than hen's teeth!


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2373 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 5):
As regards captains of industry who are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, there's something to be said for the idea that irrespective of how "country club" these prisons are, a term of years for these folks might as well be a life sentence, since they're generally no spring chickens.

I don't think they should get "country club" prison either. Send them to the "pound you in the ass" jail, ala "Office Space." LOL!


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
I don't think they should get "country club" prison either. Send them to the "pound you in the ass" jail, ala "Office Space." LOL!

Office Space sounds like a unique series.  Wink


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 13):
Office Space sounds like a unique series.

No, the movie...a comedy. Gotta rent it if you haven't seen it.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Unlike in the past, in this trial, I think the Gov't did an excellent job of building a solid case that was well rounded and not reliant on any one person/event. So both Skilling and Lay had to try to refute multiple corroborating witnesses, vs. assassinating the character of one. I'd be shocked if they're not found guilty, and based on the scope and public sentiment, I'd expect a fairly stiff sentence from the judge.


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6455 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2356 times:
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Quoting Searpqx (Reply 15):
Unlike in the past, in this trial, I think the Gov't did an excellent job of building a solid case that was well rounded and not reliant on any one person/event.

I agree. We, ex-Enron employees were told that it was going to be years before Lay or Skilling went to trial, as the prosecution wanted to build a really solid case, and for that, they had to first understand Enron's "creative" accounting, for starters.

Off the topic, I remember that day when they fired 90% of my officemates in the Houston Corporate Headquarters. I lasted until 2002, though, as they could not find a legal way to fire me, but I will never forget that day.

For New Year's Eve, 2000, Lay rented a small cruise ship for him and his extended family, to be onboard for 7 days.


User currently offlineMattCLE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Did anyone see Jack Black's comedy special on HBO?

In it he talks about Enron, etc. and how all the CEOs who stole money from these companies should be locked in insane asylums for no less than 20 years, and be forced to sit next to someone who is crocheting something that isn't there.  laughing  I tend to agree with him  Wink

-Matt


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2450 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

I am just glad that my dad's former company, Arthur Andersen was found not guilty, even after it was forced to close after the Enron scandal. Customers left the company so fast that the company was not able to survive. All because of the media. Some people even comitted suicide after Arthur Andersen was gone.

User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

I havent followed the trial closely, but I hope they are found guilty, but I have said this before about OBl and the like. But for punishment, choose 12 volunteers and then do a pay per view cage match. 12 former employeers get pool balls in tube socks. If ol kenny can climb out of the cage he is free to walk. Id pay $49.95 to watch, then all the proceeds can go to former employees.

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 18):
Customers left the company so fast that the company was not able to survive. All because of the media.

It's very sad, particularly because Arthur Andersen had been at the forefront of the ethics movement.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2450 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 20):

It's very sad, particularly because Arthur Andersen had been at the forefront of the ethics movement.

Yeah. My dad didn't like Deloitte at all which the danish part of Arthur Andersen was forced to merge with. Anyway I am not allowed to give any more details about it, but my dad chose to quit his work after a couple of years with deloitte.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Frankly, it seems a wonder that Enron hasn't been mentioned as a target of former vendors. I wonder how the management folks at AA who were hurt by Enron feel about it.

User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2450 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2298 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 22):
Frankly, it seems a wonder that Enron hasn't been mentioned as a target of former vendors. I wonder how the management folks at AA who were hurt by Enron feel about it.

I am sure it was very weird for my dad. He worked for 25 years for Arthur Andersen and loved working for them! It was also like a hobby for him, so it can't have been the best time of his life, and as I said, some people even comitted suicide after AA was gone, maybe in a sort of protest, idk.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2296 times:

I'm sorry to read what happened to your father. He seems like a very dedicated individual.

25 Luv2fly : I have my fingers crossed that it turns out like it should.
26 AR385 : I am sorry about your dad. Really. Having lost mine 1 year ago, I can see how upset you can feel when you see him depressed. But the truth is I have
27 AirPacific747 : That was a single man as far as I know, and it was the American department of the company. I should also add that no danish customers left the danish
28 Tootallsd : Everyone knows that if you are white and rich and use an automated signing machine to squander your company's wealth, send many workers home, ruin the
29 Post contains images AerospaceFan : What will you say if the jury says that he's guilty?
30 Post contains images AirPacific747 : Aerospacefan, I just noticed that we have written exactly the same amount of posts and have the same amount of rr points right now
31 AR385 : Nope. I don't know if you wrote the above in jest, if you did, I understand now. Otherwise, you are plain wrong. They broke several laws, including c
32 LTBEWR : I believe that Lay and others at the top of Enron will be convicted on most if not all charges. They were criminal in their intentions and acts. They
33 Post contains images AerospaceFan : That's because I'm your secret twin.
34 Post contains images AirPacific747 : You wish! Kidding!
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