Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1689 times:
There is a basic problem I have with the immigration debate, and that is the apparent basic assumption that to stay in the US you have to become a citizen, or at least to have that option.
This is unique, as far as I know, to the USA. In all the civilized countries I know, we have laws concerning migrant workers and expatriates. They are given residence and work permits, they pay taxes, but they are not citizens, nor are they on a "path to citizenship". They are simply making some money and one day they will go home, or they study, and go home.
My proposal would be:
1) First and foremost, shut down the illegal crossings of the border with a couple of divisions of National Guard, permenantly.
2) Those illegals already in the country must register by a certain date for work/residency permits, which will be granted automatically if they have a clean criminal record. But they will not qualify for citizenship. NEVER. If they want to become citizens, they should go back to their country of origin and apply for immigration the proper way.
3) Those illegals who do not register and/or who have criminal records, or who enter the country illegally after the registration date, will be deported.
I think this is fair to immigrants who come in the right way. They have something the illegals do not - a path to citizenship.
Citizenship is not a God-given right to anyone on the planet. That's like saying anyone who breaks into your house one time has the right to the keys for the next time. Let there be a status of legal, migrant workers who do their jobs but who are not on any "citizenship path"
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1651 times:
The reason is simple.
We began as a nation of immigrants and always have been.
As for "guest worker" programs, just look at the mess created by Germany and its "no, you are not German, you are a Turkish guest worker and we don't care if you were born here, or if your Daddy was born here" program.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2): Some of us have to sleep, and don't have to bump our own threads.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1638 times:
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 3): We began as a nation of immigrants and always have been.
We began as a nation of LEGAL immigrants and always have been.
As you will of course recall, immigrants went through Ellis Island or similar processing points to immigrate. You can't just cross borders willy-nilly.
Unless of course you want the US to annex Mexico and make it the 51st state.
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 3): As for "guest worker" programs, just look at the mess created by Germany and its "no, you are not German, you are a Turkish guest worker and we don't care if you were born here, or if your Daddy was born here" program.
Can you be specific as to how the German situation is worse than the American one?
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1635 times:
Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter): There is a basic problem I have with the immigration debate, and that is the apparent basic assumption that to stay in the US you have to become a citizen, or at least to have that option.
Continuing the debate in this bumped thread that will surely be deleted for a forum rule violation ... are you aware of the H-2B seasonal guest worker program? It does have its faults, namely caps for those eligible, but it's not like the U.S. doesn't have something like what you propose already in place that can be modified.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13250 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1630 times:
Until the mid-1920's, if one entered the USA even illegally, that is not through Ellis Island or other checkpoints and lived here properly for 5 years, they could apply for citizenship. Then the laws were tightened up as many citizens became anti-immigrant, especially toward Jews, Italians, Greeks and all Asians.
The current immigration problem is a terrible mix of: bad politics and economy in Mexico, the demand for cheap and compliant labor by businesses in the USA, greed by many employers and customers for cheap construction, child care, food processing; a lack of money for the Immigartion enforcement ($'s held down by the infuences of business peoples political donations) and so on.
Right now the debate here has a lot of heat but no light. Our media is doing a terrible job on the issue and our politicans doing an even worse job, pandering to the interests in their districts that give them the most votes and campaign monies. This is a problem that has had many years to develop and will also take a long time to deal with, hopefully in a fair and humane way.