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Kentucky HS Graduates Defy Judge And Aclu  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2285 times:

I didn't see a link to the exact article, but you can read it here:

http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/vb/showthread.php?t=164288

RUSSELL SPRINGS, Ky. (AP) - The senior class at a southern Kentucky high school gave their response Friday night to a federal judge's order banning prayer at commencement.

About 200 seniors stood during the principal's opening remarks and began reciting the Lord's Prayer, prompting a standing ovation from a standing-room only crowd at the Russell County High School gymnasium.

The thunderous applause drowned out the last part of the prayer.



Apparently, the ACLU had filed suit to stop the prayer on behalf of an unidentified student, and 12 hours before graduation the judge issued a court order banning prayer...any public prayer.

Congratulations to the Class of 2006 of Russell County High School!

135 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

Not this stuff again  Yeah sure

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
Congratulations to the Class of 2006 of Russell County High School!

I'm sure that the school will get in trouble with the Nazis, er, ACLU for their rebellion from politically correct thought.

If the students want to recite a prayer, a hym, or the lyrics to Motörhead's "Eat The Rich", let them. As long as it isn't hate-speech, nobody needs to be offended.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8697 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Thread starter):
12 hours before graduation the judge issued a court order banning prayer...any public prayer.

Only in America, I guess. No one else in "the West" seems to be making such a great deal out of praying and also telling other people how to live their lives; "political correctness" and/or "moral values" being abused as excuses for it.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1340 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

In our high school this was always handled with the attitude that sanctioning of prayer by the school would have been unacceptable but any student could basically engage in prayer as he/she wished. I may not be remembering this correctly as I've been out of high school for several years.

Why should someone praying offend another more than any other statement that the two parties disagree upon?

If a prayer like this is the independent voice of one or more students and not a sanctioned or promoted act by the school doesn't this make the ACLU hypocritical by not upholding the "I may disagree with what you have to say... " mantra?



Speedtape - The asprin of aviation!
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Even if they asked for consent from all of the graduates, this act should not have happened.

1. If only one student did not agree with the prayer, but felt obligated to commence with it due to peer pressure, than the intent of secularism in the United States and the Constitution has been betrayed. Do conservatives only quote the Constitution when it suites their purpose? (I am not a liberal)

2. This is a very fine line. I do think that Chrisian/Jewish/Moslem/Satanic prayer groups should be allowed in schools. I even think that to hold a "moment of silence", as is common in US schools allows people to pray, think, or sleep to whatever they believe. That's great! But to insist that all students and attendees listen to a single minded prayer is ignorant and against the secular foundations of this country. Pathetic!!!

Matthew 6:5-8 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 5):
Matthew 6:5-8 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Nice!!!...


As Jack Soo used to say: "Very well put"


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 2):

I'm sure that the school will get in trouble with the Nazis, er, ACLU for their rebellion from politically correct thought.

It's a sad day when merely fighting for separation of Church and State is equated to Nazism. I thought Christianity was all about tolerance and compassion. Now we have anti-PC Christianity? What is this world coming to?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2234 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 6):
Nice!!!...

Thank you. I try to keep my religious beliefs private because it only matters between myself and god. Sometimes I discuss religion, but I sometimes regret it. Athiests judge me the same as the theos. I believe what I believe, and F.. everone who doesn't respect that. That is why I revere the Establisment Clause of the First Amendment so much. I would die fighting for it.

I do respect all other's opinions as long as it doesn't impede upon this right.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 5):
1. If only one student did not agree with the prayer, but felt obligated to commence with it due to peer pressure, than the intent of secularism in the United States and the Constitution has been betrayed.

He is quite free not to say anything. But he is in a predominantly Christian school, and he should respect that. Nobody is forcing him to become a Christian.

Quoting SATX (Reply 8):
It's a sad day when merely fighting for separation of Church and State is equated to Nazism. I thought Christianity was all about tolerance and compassion.

Nazis started their percecution of Jews by banning all public displays of Judeism. Then it went on from there.

The whole point is, as you say, tolerance and compassion. If most people want to invoke a prayer together to mark an important event for them, other people should not be intolerant of their beliefs. In this case, it is the protesting student (and by extention, the Nazis, er, ACLU) who are being intolerant. The rest of the school shows its tolerance and compassion by not requiring anyone to participate if he doesn't want to.

Intolerance is on the side that proposes to ban something. If you think that it's the other way round, I suggest you take some Logic classes, which I am sure is still taught at good universities.


User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
He is quite free not to say anything. But he is in a predominantly Christian school, and he should respect that. Nobody is forcing him to become a Christian.

I cannot gain access to the article, yet I understand it to be a public school. Because of this, It is not a "Christian School". If a person who was Hindu was forced to go to a Buddhist school because they had no other option, they might pretend to be Buddhist-even if they where Hindu in heart and mind.

Any adult can tell you the importance of peer pressure among children and adolescents.

Further more, for you to suggest that a majority religion should take precedence over a minority one is disgusting.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
If most people want to invoke a prayer together to mark an important event for them, other people should not be intolerant of their beliefs.

So, Christianity is apparently all about demanding tolerance and compassion from all non-Christians wherever Christians have the advantage of greater numbers instead of, say, leading by example?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
Intolerance is on the side that proposes to ban something.

Wow, never have I seen someone openly admit to such a narrow view of the world. That's the kind of simplistic view I might expect of child. I suppose by your twisted logic banning witch hunts is being intolerant? How about banning hate crimes? Banning discrimination? Good luck explaining that.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 12):
Wow, never have I seen someone openly admit to such a narrow view of the world. That's the kind of simplistic view I might expect of child. I suppose by your twisted logic banning witch hunts is being intolerant? How about banning hate crimes? Banning discrimination? Good luck explaining that.

That is totally nonsensical.

Tolerance : The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.

Therefore, intolerance is when you do not respect those beliefs and practices, and want to eliminate them, or at least eliminate them from your sight.

Secondly, your examples are completely flawed. Witch hunts, hate crimes, and discrimination are all forms of intolerance. It would not be philosophically logical to be tolerant of intolerance in the name of tolerance.

Quoting SATX (Reply 12):
So, Christianity is apparently all about demanding tolerance and compassion from all non-Christians wherever Christians have the advantage of greater numbers instead of, say, leading by example?

No. But it is the responsibility of all people who live in a free society to be tolerant of other people's beliefs, regardless of whether they are a minority or a majority. Or should we disallow something as soon as 50.01% of the population want it?


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

Now that I'm not at work....

Those of you who applaud the students actions have a right to take pride in their actions (save Fumanchewd's post) A bunch of kids APPARENTLY defying a court order is a big deal.... the only problem is; that your celebrating for the wrong reason. As usual, you don't have all the facts. (I don't profess to, but I have more then the celebrationists apparently)

From another article: http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/14626241.htm
Attorneys for Gossage argued that the school's graduation ceremony would not be an improper endorsement of religion because students, not school officials, chose whether to have one of their own make commencement remarks.

The gist of what you are missing is that NO ONE in their right mind (even as liberal as I am) will STOP STUDENTS of their OWN FREE WILL from praying in public. What I WILL do is make sure that the person who starts/inspires/motivates/organizes the prayer is NOT working on my DAMNED taxpayer dime!!!!

So all you hardcore thumpers who want to shove YOUR work of fiction on ME can jump up and down as much as you want; the reality is that it was the students who decided to do this, NOT THE SCHOOL. Bottom line:Who cares???


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

I'm not religious, but banning a prayer because of ONE student just shows us how ridiculous the PC campaign has become. A country that grew based on tolerance is becoming one of the most intolerant places on earth. If the majority of your classmates want to recite a prayer and you don't...then STFU and let them do it. It does not harm that one person in any way. I hate crap like this.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 15):
I'm not religious, but banning a prayer because of ONE student just shows us how ridiculous the PC campaign has become. A country that grew based on tolerance is becoming one of the most intolerant places on earth. If the majority of your classmates want to recite a prayer and you don't...then STFU and let them do it. It does not harm that one person in any way. I hate crap like this.

I think you missed the point of the diference between the students doing it of thier own accord and being instructed/inspired/managed/provoked/bullied to by school administration/employees.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
Secondly, your examples are completely flawed.

Their only purpose was to show how ridiculous your narrow definition of intolerance was, and they served that purpose just fine.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
But it is the responsibility of all people who live in a free society to be tolerant of other people's beliefs, regardless of whether they are a minority or a majority.

Look, the whole significance of the majority position was started in your own post right here...

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
If most people want to invoke a prayer together to mark an important event for them, other people should not be intolerant of their beliefs.

If anyone should have to explain why they think the majority should have control, it's you. If you simply weren't paying attention to your own words, and you didn't really mean to draw attention to the majority position (yeah, right) then just say so.

Quoting KROC (Reply 15):
STFU and let them do it

You just have to wonder when someone decides to bash what they apparently see as intolerance by telling the other side to just "STFU".



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2192 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Quoting KROC (Reply 15):
STFU and let them do it

You just have to wonder when someone decides to bash what they apparently see as intolerance by telling the other side to just "STFU".

I think KROC ought to KO himself on that one.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
Secondly, your examples are completely flawed.

Their only purpose was to show how ridiculous your narrow definition of intolerance was, and they served that purpose just fine.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
But it is the responsibility of all people who live in a free society to be tolerant of other people's beliefs, regardless of whether they are a minority or a majority.

Look, the whole significance of the majority position was started in your own post right here...

You are making absolutely ZERO sense.


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6688 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 14):
I'm not religious, but banning a prayer because of ONE student just shows us how ridiculous the PC campaign has become. A country that grew based on tolerance is becoming one of the most intolerant places on earth. If the majority of your classmates want to recite a prayer and you don't...then STFU and let them do it.

That's why God gave us fingers and ears to put them in!



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
I think you missed the point of the diference between the students doing it of thier own accord and being instructed/inspired/managed/provoked/bullied to by school administration/employees.

They appear one and the same.

Quoting SATX (Reply 16):
You just have to wonder when someone decides to bash what they apparently see as intolerance by telling the other side to just "STFU".

It's an expression. Perhaps to appeal to your fragile sensibility I should have said "the student in question should have kindly allowed his fellow students to have their prayer while he politely chose not to participate. Would that work better for you? Besides, shouldn't you be more worried about trying to find new and unique ways to Bash Bush in your posts? You seem to be below your quota.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
I think KROC ought to KO himself on that one.

While I am knowm to KO myself...this hardly qualifies.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
No. But it is the responsibility of all people who live in a free society to be tolerant of other people's beliefs, regardless of whether they are a minority or a majority. Or should we disallow something as soon as 50.01% of the population want it?

VERY well put. We are fast becoming a very intolerant nation....

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 13):
The gist of what you are missing is that NO ONE in their right mind (even as liberal as I am) will STOP STUDENTS of their OWN FREE WILL from praying in public. What I WILL do is make sure that the person who starts/inspires/motivates/organizes the prayer is NOT working on my DAMNED taxpayer dime!!!!

You missed a better line of text farther on down in the article you cited.

"Lutgens said the lawsuit is not an attack on Christianity, but rather an effort to preserve "government-free religion." When government sanctions certain religious credos or tells people when, where and how to pray, that erodes religious freedom, Lutgens said."

I think this was actually a case where the system "worked." The ACLU properly acted to ensure that the school system didn't mandate a Christian prayer - and no one acted to stop those that wanted to pray. A win for both sides.


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3078 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
Or should we disallow something as soon as 50.01% of the population want it?

Majority cannot rule.....Not in everything. If that was the case there would still be a segregation......NO inter-racial marriage...Hell there would still be slavery in the south....

Sometimes the majority has to go against themselves to protect the minority and to do what is right.

I wonder how this toletant school would have reacted if this student was muslim and wanted to recite a prayer to Allah....i am willing to bet it would not have happened.

I do not have a problem with prayer clubs of any religion...as an after school club.

But do not foce EVERYONE to be subjected to it....Espeially since it is a public school and not a christian school...

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineMattCLE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Ah, graduation!

The cake still goes to that pregnant girl who wasn't allowed to attend graduation but walked across the stage and announced her own name anyway. Now that took some guts.  highfive 

-Matt


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17365 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 7):
It's a sad day when merely fighting for separation

What kind of day is it when "fighting for separation of church and state" stifles free speech?



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Post contains links Oly720man : This time last year http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050519/walk.shtml
26 DeltaDC9 : Separation of church and state is one of the most misunderstood concepts, just above right to bear arms. This has nothing to do with the Federal Gove
27 MaverickM11 : Looks like no one was forced. He could have stood up and given a shout out to Allah at the same time as everyone else and no one would have noticed.
28 TedTAce : Halls articulated it better then I did. Appearences are deceptive. Maybe the end result is the same in that students who want to pray, do. It's the j
29 Post contains images Greasespot : Wow.....good to see you think that highly about your own opinion.....Instead of adding something constructive you decide to yell and swear..A really
30 Migfan : Really??? This is such BS. I love the moment of silence idea. The massive sprawl of christianity in my area is offensive to me, but it's cool as long
31 Lnglive1011yyz : Agreed. Instead of making asses out of themselves, why didn't they hold a separate gathering, AFTER the PUBLIC (NOT Private) ceremony, and do as they
32 KROC : I never said that the "religified" people are overly tolerant either.
33 Post contains images CastleIsland : Good to see that they're not using prayer as an agenda, but for its true spiritual value.  [Edited 2006-05-22 17:56:16]
34 Migfan : I notice that they tend to be tolerant of their own kind. That is a stretch at best. It is so amusing how many religious people twist their faith's m
35 DeltaDC9 : You know exactly what I am talking about, or you should. Also, if you want to insult someones intelligence, learn how to spell the word! Because a pr
36 Greasespot : Fact....When slavery was abolished it was done against the wishes of the majority of the South.....De-segregation was again imposed against the wishes
37 Slider : Was there duress? Was anyone forced to pray? No. Your point is defeated. "Peer pressure" does not constitute force, under any interpretation. Bingo!
38 JGPH1A : Freedom of religion automatically means freedom FROM religion as well. Just as you have the right to your religious beliefs, I have the right not to
39 Newark777 : The government may not infringe on the practice of religion, or law respecting an established religion. Therefore, if you don't like someone's expres
40 Sv7887 : You make a great point. As long as a school official was not leading a prayer session I don't see what the big deal is. The students are free to do a
41 Post contains images Newark777 : That's it, summed up nicely. Harry
42 TedTAce : Yeah, and how did you learn that? I doubt you learned by staying away from school assemblies. I doubt you learned that growing up in a Jewish neighbo
43 SATX : Yeah, an expression of intolerance. Next! All they have to do is get off tax-funded property and they can pray their hearts out. Countries that don't
44 Slider : Are you getting into a semantical argument here? Honestly, are you? What part of hearing a student or group of students recite a prayer constitutes "
45 Newark777 : Talk about breaking the First Amendment. The government may not interfere with the free expression of religion, on government property or off. Harry
46 Migfan : If the students really had a problem with the prayer, then they should have used it to their advantage to get themselves out of the assembly... /M
47 Sv7887 : Are you serious?? Peer pressure? Grow up already. No one is putting a gun to their head. That statement highlights the problem we have with the lack
48 Post contains images Newark777 : Harry
49 CastleIsland : To me, nothing. However, that "The thunderous applause drowned out the last part of the prayer" simply tells me that the majority these students have
50 Post contains images Newark777 : Nice of you to do a psychological analysis on the students' belief systems over the fact that they clapped at the end. They were probably just proud
51 Post contains images Slider : But Harry, When students applaud in unison for something they believe in but is not in lockstep with the left, they're mind-numbed brainwashed religi
52 Post contains images Newark777 : Those crazy nutjobs. Harry
53 CastleIsland : First of all, if they'd read their bibles, they would have read the passage that says pride is a sin. Clapped? What part of that statement sounds lik
54 Post contains images MattCLE : -Matt
55 Sv7887 : Oh please. How do you know what or why they were clapping? Maybe they are sick and tired for being persecuted because they are religious. Maybe that
56 Newark777 : There is a difference between simple pride and the excessive hubris the Bible speaks of. You weren't there, and you don't know what the situation was
57 CastleIsland : The issue here is not their right to pray, it's the complete lack of reverence shown DURING THE PRAYER. This is really a very simple concept. This st
58 Pope : Actually, it seems to me that we're fast becoming a very intolerant nation of anything having to do with Christianity. It seems that this nation is v
59 Jaysit : Well, clearly while you were busy praying and trashing the left, you forgot to understand a very basic premise of the Consitution in that there is fu
60 Sv7887 : I'm hardly trashing the Left. I'm responding to those on this VERY board who try to stereotype anyone supporting these kids. It's interesting how jud
61 CastleIsland : No more judgemental than the members of the Catholic Church I was a member of until I was 17. I'm not stereotyping anyone, just reacting to the actio
62 Post contains images TedTAce : I'll take a foot in the mouth on that one.... Once again you are confusing Item A) with item B) A) People of thier own accord praying amongst themsel
63 Post contains links Sv7887 : Don't need the Refresher course, Here's an excerpt from the Article: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/3876347.html "About 200 students inte
64 Newark777 : I got a sense of bitterness there. And even though the Church is not the judgemental empire you try to make it sound like, that is a pretty meaningle
65 Post contains images TedTAce : And if you dig deeper it refers to the school being involved int the selection process of the main payer giver(student) Once again selective reading.
66 Post contains images Slider : Post. Of. The. Day. Well said, sir.
67 Sv7887 : I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Even if the school did pick the speaker they have no control over what he/she says. Accountability lies
68 Newark777 : The school principle was going to recite a prayer, but then didn't after the injunction. Then, the students started praying during his opening remark
69 Piercey : Is a load of sh!t if used for political gain, that's what happened here. amen if it is students, then we have bigger things to discuss then this. IF
70 TedTAce : ROFLMAO!!! You are soooo funny.. try this one on for size: You are working for a data recovery service. You come to find that based on your experienc
71 AeroWesty : In another recent thread here, regarding the behavior of students during McCain's speech at New School University, the students were labelled as indoc
72 Newark777 : And in this thread, the same side who is calling these kids right-wing religious nutjobs called those students intelligent progressive thinkers, expr
73 Sv7887 : Depends if there is some guarantee implied with the service. I'm not saying the person couldn't sue, but I highly doubt this would be successful. The
74 Post contains links MD-90 : Oops, sorry if you can't access that. This one should work. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-05-19-11-01-45 I'd like to see
75 CastleIsland : Well, Harry, you seem to be bent on discrediting any value of my words in this thread. However, when I make completely relevant statements and even a
76 Nancy : The students as individuals have always had right to pray. The adminsitration and teachers as paid representatives of the state do not have the right
77 Post contains images Cfalk : Sv, I admire your mature outlook on life in America. You can keep your own values and beliefs, while at the same time intigrate into American culture
78 CastleIsland : Wrong, wrong, wrong. Have you read my position on this? Do I need to say it again?
79 Cfalk : OK, OK, not you. But the ACLU and all the other people who bitched. Thanks to them, the spirit behind the prayer got perverted into a political state
80 Lentigomaligna : Why is it that when the Government says that you no longer have the right to conduct government business (i.e. public schools) with religious overtone
81 AeroWesty : Wow. I'm stunned. Advocating disrespectful behavior during a graduation ceremony.
82 MD-90 : I suppose if you think that freedom and self-determination is a "bad" political statement, then so be it.
83 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Not at all. I am very familiar with the concepts that lead to the Establishment Clause. Here's a little dinger from Jefferson, one of the authors of
84 Slider : Funny. Many men have been compelled to furnish contributions to labor unions in order to keep their job....ironic how that worm turns. Kind of an off
85 Fumanchewd : But why must it be done in publically funded forums? It doesn't. It is only recently that religion has infringed upon secularism in America. How old
86 Jaysit : The only person here who's getting offended is you as you howl about the state of the law and stamp your feet like the proverbial Rumpelstiltskin. Th
87 Gigneil : I would have been HORRIBLY offended if there had been prayer at my high school graduation. Keep prayer where it belongs, in your churches and homes. N
88 ANCFlyer : Congratulations to the students that didn't allow Religious Persecution to stop them from exercising their Constitutionally Protected right to prayer.
89 Post contains images CastleIsland : Thanks for such an insightful and well-researched opinion, Pep. Glad to see you read the entire thread. Too busy posting, I suppose?
90 Post contains images ANCFlyer : No just back from camping - but I read the relevent part - the thread opener and the article. I skipped the 86 replies of religious freedom, separati
91 Post contains images CastleIsland : I'm not so sure that being told not to say a prayer because someone judged it to unconstitutional is persecution, but I'll grant you: To play devils
92 Post contains images ANCFlyer : No, seriously, I read the thread starter, and replied . . . I don't see any problem with that . . . and I'm sure there's a Muslim or three somewhere
93 Airbus3801 : I too skipped to the bottom, but I am sure someone must have mentioned Lee v. Weisman , prayer at public school graduation ceremonies was found uncon
94 ANCFlyer : I would make a bet against that . . . Why would students have to miss a graduation? Those that choose not to partcipate, simply don't. I'm sure the C
95 MD-90 : Aw, that makes me want to reply with something actually worth a ban.
96 SATX : Actually, the ACLU seems to be on the up-and-up from what I can tell. They don't play just one side, which is why they even take up cases for disgusti
97 Halls120 : I suspect both T-shirts would be immediately banned. Especially the second one. Excellent point. Even though I disagrgee with most of their decisions
98 DeltaDC9 : BS and you know it. Freedom of assembly and freedom of religion trumps that. And who payed the taxes that built that school? The same people who want
99 Slider : PUBLIC...meaning it is not verboten! I see you're conveniently throwing in the funding issue. So, lest this thread get off track, I'd be curious if y
100 SATX : Actually that's honestly how it looks to me. It's true that you can march down a city street but you can't use a publically funded school as a meetin
101 DeltaDC9 : Your rights only extend to the point at which they infringe on others. The only way to truly eliminate religion form your life is to infringe on othe
102 Post contains images TedTAce : So? I pay taxes and I think They ought to teach kids how to strip @ nightclubs 'properly'. Doesn't mean I'm right does it? Hell at least with my clas
103 DeltaDC9 : Sorry, that cannot be escaped. There is a common saying among lawmakers. 10,000 laws to cover 10 commandments. This country was founded on religious
104 Santosdumont : Suppose for a second the graduation ceremony took place in Hialeah, FL; where the population is predominantly Cuban and Cuban-American, and the predom
105 Post contains images TedTAce : This is a result of PAC's and our litigious society. What this point has to do with the argument, I don't understand. NAMELY THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION
106 Gigneil : I don't need fairly tales to tell me how to act. I'm not 5, and I don't only behave so that Santa Claus will bring me something good this year. N
107 Post contains images TedTAce : That's great advice, maybe you should take it yourself. How is the lack of an administrator at a school telling you how and when to pray an infringme
108 Post contains images FDXMECH : ETC, ETC It seems, "You really get it", thanks
109 DeltaDC9 : If you trust man, fine, then you end up with Hitler or Stalin telling you what is right and wrong. Good luck!
110 DeltaDC9 : Maybe you should go back to school and learn about reading comprehension. Nowhere did I state my personal beliefs on the subject, just how it is inte
111 Halls120 : Not so fast. While the Bible may have been the foundation for our proscription against murder, it is NOT the authority under which current laws are e
112 Airbus3801 : THat's a completly uneducated response, as they did because of the Jewish prayers being said at the graduation ceremony in question in Lee v. Weisman
113 Seb146 : So, the ACLU asking that a state sponsored group (public school) not encourage Christian prayer is intolerance and Nazi like behavior? From what I un
114 Cfalk : They want to not allow something. Thus they are intolerant. That's what they are doing. They are insisting that they all have atheistic prayer (i.e.
115 DeltaDC9 : Your RR rating is well deserved. Refreshing and very clear thinking on the subject. Expect to be called out as a radical fundamentalist and a Falwell
116 CastleIsland : I agree in principle, but I also question how tolerant the majority would be if several Muslim, Jewish or Hindu students stood up and did the same. I
117 Gigneil : Um, my parents taught me what is right and wrong. That's how its supposed to work. If you're a good person because you're afraid of burning in hell,
118 Jaysit : LOL. Aren't we out in LaLa Land. Clearly the lessons of high school civics class didn't rub on to you. The US Constitution to which all law (state an
119 Cfalk : I would expect them to show the same respect that they would wish to have. This should certainly be true for mainline religions such as Judeism, Isla
120 Slider : That's a BINGO.
121 CastleIsland : As would I, but I noticed that you didn't say "I expect that they would show the same respect..." Actually, they didn't even show their own prayer an
122 Nancy : Prayer led by an authority figure who is acting as an agent of the government has been determined to be coercive. Kids will just "go along" with it. T
123 DeltaDC9 : For a Lawyer you sure are a dumbass. I hope for your clients sake you have more comprehension skills than you display here. Where did I say that is w
124 TedTAce : filler filler filler filler[Edited 2006-05-24 17:50:52]
125 Post contains images TedTAce : You seem to be waiving the flag pretty high. Satan. Nah, I work, take care of my family, and shovel through other people's bullshit on a web site. If
126 TedTAce : Why didn't you say that up front instead of allowing the perception to brew that you apeared to think otherwise?
127 Cfalk : ¨ Oh, crap. It doesn't surprise me that some judges might think like that, but some judges feel it's ok to rape 3rd-graders. People need to get a li
128 Post contains images TedTAce : Obviously you feel this is a good practice elsewise you wouldn't be bringing it up. PKB. If it involves something that they are dimetrically opposed
129 Cfalk : If you hate religion that strongly then I suggest you pack your bags and leave for some devoted atheistic society. I'm sure North Korea is nice this
130 TedTAce : You are dense. How many times do I have to say I'm an agnostic? You are so narrow minded that you OBVIOUSLY think that an endorsment of god AUTOMATIC
131 Post contains images Slider : The Omnipotent Ted has spoken!!! LOL!
132 Cfalk : I'm talking about anyone who is, in your words, "dimetrically opposed" to any and all religion. You are the one who needs to go back to school, and p
133 CastleIsland : Damn, that was classic, wasn't it?
134 DeltaDC9 : This is not true, local property taxes build and maintain the schools in this country. The feds pay for the free lunch program and a few other things
135 Lobster : Thankfully I don't live in Kentucky, or the "Bible Belt" for that matter.
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