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Black Men Torn Between Promise And Doubt  
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13123005/ Black men torn between promise and doubt.

Good story. I'm sorry that I'm alive when this kind of BS means anything, not that another 1,000 years or so will get us to treat eachother based on being human and nothing else.... I can hope...

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20506 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
I can hope

That is a good story, thanks for pointing it out. Was interesting that the Kaiser Foundation was a contributor to it.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSoku39 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1797 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

Wow where to even start? Alright I'm 18, black, and in college training to get paid fly whatever later in life. I'm also the son of a successful black male (4 year college, masters, six figures, still married, neverending business contacts etc etc) I wholeheartedly agree with this article and the views of the men interviewed. I personaly find it very hard to be positive about black males in America on the whole. I still see far too many of us emulating what is presented on BET to think we'll ever get ahead. Going to the 2nd largest college in Ohio, I see other black kids still acting as ignorant as they were in the hood. They dick around with their classes, disrepcting black women, and don't respect themselves. It is one thing to not forget where you come from, but quite another to continualy act disrepectful to everyone and everything around you (like the the majority of white kids on campus who have never had contact with blacks until now, and getting their first impressions in the worst way possible).

Then on the other hand I feel that with a little hard work one day I will be hired by an airline, and able to live out all my other dreams, I really don't see why not. I guess I am trying to say I don't feel discrimnated against to the point where they can stop me from doing my own thing, but on a day by day basis I do have to hear comments.

I do (still!) have girls putting their purse on the side that I am not walking by them on (and I have watched them to see if they did the same for a white guy dressed more poorly than myself, surprise surprise they don't). I do believe that cops are harsher towards blacks on campus, and were I to ever have to stand infront of a judge that I would get a harsher sentence than my white counterpart. Do I believe that I'll have less bargaining power than a white male at a car dealership? Of course. Sadly I have come to accept these facts. All that being said are black men equal to their white male counterparts? Hell no. Will we ever be? again no. Is there things the culture can do to improve our current possition? Yes. Will they do those things? It doesnt appear so... But on the last thing do I believe I can help myself? aboslutely. Whether that be from having a perfect dad as a role model or just not watching much TV growing up I don't know... I'll put this at the end. some people might thing I'm being racist towards my own race. If that is what you got out of my reply or that article you are totaly missing the point.



The Ohio Player
User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):

That is a thoughtful post and you make some very good points.

As an immigrant, I have had to pay a price too (reasonable) , but it is not fair to expect an American-born citizen to accept differential treatment (unreasonable).

To be born black in the US is to be born with a handicap in life on two fronts - its hard to look to your community for support, and you have to inure yourself to life's daily jabs - like the women who turn their purses away. This is really awful, but it is reality.

Now, I think the best way to look at this is to say that you've been dealt a tough hand, but that you can use it as a motivator too - it's just another challenge to conquer. You are fortunate in having a warm and supportive family, and you will find many people of all colors who will lend you a big hand as you move ahead in your career. Once you are in the workplace, you will be treated and judged as a professional - I've found corporate America to be color blind in my experience, and I am sure your Dad can vouch for it too. As for your community, I think you will have to redefine it in terms of who you are - a well educated, urban professional, color unimportant.

Much success in your career.

PS - I went to CWRU...so big hug to Cleveland Smile


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1763 times:

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):
Do I believe that I'll have less bargaining power than a white male at a car dealership?

I hope you will be able to prove this as bullshit. If you can't get a reasonable deal through the sales manager I'd threaten to go to his district manager. I would understand you getting treated diferently if you were the type who acted disrespectfully, but you come off way to professional to have to deal with this kind of bullshit.

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):
Will we ever be? again no

While I know you are right, I hope that things become so transparent that it's impossible to tell. If we can't be a non judgmental society, i'd like to at least have beople be good enough at faking it that the perception is we are all fair.

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):
Is there things the culture can do to improve our current possition?

Are there things? Sorry...

What should be happening?

I know it's very strange to me that when I download music videos of African American Artists, the 'rips' that are usually the least edited (if not totally unedited) usually have a BET logo in the corner. My guess is that an aspect of the problem is that BET is trying to appeal to the larger audience which is the lower end of the sophistication scale. This seems to make for the perpetuation of the idea that less sophisticated behaviours are encouraged.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 3):
That is a thoughtful post and you make some very good points.

 checkmark 

Quoting Comorin (Reply 3):
Much success in your career.

 checkmark 

Thanks for being a good example, I hope you are rewarded with a long and prosperous flying career!!!


User currently offlineSoku39 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1797 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

Case is a great school. My dad got hist masters from CWRU weatherhead school of management!

Quoting Comorin (Reply 3):
I've found corporate America to be color blind in my experience

That I do completely agree with.


as for having people fake being colorblind I'm not sure. I like the idea, but if they are going to be that way, I have no problem with them showing it outwardly so I know who to avoid or who to run over. It's awful how totaly pessimistic I and others are about it.  Sad

Today another example came up. Being a black skateboarder in the city is funny, you have your genearl hoodrats who used to always have problems with us. Then came Lupe Fiasco's song "Kick Push" is about being a black and skateboarding. Now all the sudden if im riding in the city its fine, only because cats saw it on BET. Like Nas says they are total black zombies.

It's also funny to me the lack of replies or interest in this thread, if that doesn't tell the whole story then nothing will.



The Ohio Player
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1707 times:

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 5):
It's also funny to me the lack of replies or interest in this thread, if that doesn't tell the whole story then nothing will.

I wouldn't read too much into it, it's Sunday afternoon - a lot of good threads don't get much traction on weekends.

Thanks for the article Ted. As an outsider looking in, it echos the impressions I've developed. And Soku, kudos to you, both on your posting and your drive - good luck!



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineTmarch291 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 147 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):

Well put, I agreed with most of your points.

As a white male, I can say that sometimes my friends look at black males with suspicion. I try not to do so, but sometimes stereotypes are ingrained in our communities and it is hard not to.

Having said this, whites also must face stereotypes. Just yesterday I was traveling through Baltimore and I had to go to the drugstore. I went into an area where I was the only white person around. As I got out of my car, many people looked at me with suspicion, like I was the "Grand Wizard" of the KKK.

Racism and stereotypes are not a good thing in America but as many people say, it is impossible to eliminate racism.


User currently offlineComorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 5):
Case is a great school. My dad got hist masters from CWRU weatherhead school of management!

Must have been around my time? I got my MBA in '73. I was also a Graduate Assistant around that time.


User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3393 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Soku- I am a senior in flight technology at Kent State, how far are you? You have probably seen me around..

[Edited 2006-06-07 00:31:39]

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7407 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1601 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):
Wow where to even start? Alright I'm 18, black, and in college training to get paid fly whatever later in life. I'm also the son of a successful black male (4 year college, masters, six figures, still married, neverending business contacts etc etc)

And in the urban community, you, your mother and father would be considered sell-out to "the Man". The look at success as dissing where they came from.

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):
I wholeheartedly agree with this article and the views of the men interviewed. I personaly find it very hard to be positive about black males in America on the whole.

Quote:
"I just get frustrated with my brothers. With black men . . . wasting life. But then, on the other hand, I wonder: Is there something in society that keeps us down?" said Edward Howell, 57, a D.C.
Well there is something keeping them down, themselves. More often than not, you hear complaints by many in black community, that they can't get ahead, the playing field needs to be leveled. The plating has been leveled for quite a long time. I'm not an advocate for affirmative action, I believe that it hurts rather than helps. I thing that people should face adversity rather than a forced, knee-jerk diversity, (diversity is good, but only when it's embraced and not forced upon). But I do believe their should be programmes like the United Negro College Fund, and other pro-education programmes for African-Americans because the intercity schools are below average in quality of education. The big problem is, is that need to be taken advantage of, and if they go on unused, then who is to blame?

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 2):
I still see far too many of us emulating what is presented on BET to think we'll ever get ahead. Going to the 2nd largest college in Ohio, I see other black kids still acting as ignorant as they were in the hood.

That's another big problem, the rappers who run around, sing rap songs about gangbanging, bitchslapping, and hustling is not a positive message. What really urks me is when people like Snoop Dogg, or Ludacris talk about being role models to urban youths(making appearances at youth-themed fundraisers), talk about all that they do for intercity kids, and then go out and make a rap song, about hustlin, "riding dirty", and dirogatory terms about the police, all topped off with booty-shaking hoochie-mamas shaking their asses in the camera. They're doing nothing for youth's except glorifying breaking the law, and painting the whites, Asians, and other ethnicities as racists. Role models are are those like Colin Powell, Conde Rice(regardless of whether you agree with them politically), Ken Blackwell, Juan Williams. These are African-Americans that should be admired for their determination to be successful. Soku39, you obviously come from a well-rounded stable family atmosphere. This is the way it should be. Almost over 70% of black youths grow up without fathers. It's staggering to see how much of an influence a father-figure can have in a childs life. The mothers of these kids, work 3 or four jobs to keep food on the table and clothe these kids, but is worth it in the end when the kids turn to a life of crime, drugs? Kids need their fathers, that's the bottom line. Maybe when you grow up, you'll be an inspiration to other black youths.



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