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English Only At Philadelphia Eatery  
User currently offlineNWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2878 times:
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http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/arti...990009&_mpc=news%2e10%2e4&cid=2359

I like this idea!

Russell


Things aren't always as they seem
201 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2875 times:

Only makes sense. You can't expect the employees to speak Spanish to accommodate those that won't learn English.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineFutureSDPDcop From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1293 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2865 times:

Well, if I don't learn spanish, how would I order my food at Jack in the Box?

User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2865 times:

I love the uber-patriotic sign...

The anti-Spanish crusade in this country is getting really out of hand. What's next? Anglo names for tacos and burritos? How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt? (I realize there's a difference between being a tourist and a resident, but I think most of you would probably take your business to the establishment without the offensive sign) If people like this want to alienate their customers, I'm sure they'll take their money to the businesses out there that welcome lingual diversity in their establishments. Furthermore, I enjoy it when servers at Mexican restaraunts speak to me in basic Spanish. A little language education is good for everybody.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineNWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2847 times:
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Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt?

I would order in Spanish with the help of a English to Spanish Dictionary.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

Good Day  Smile

Russell



Things aren't always as they seem
User currently onlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2847 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
How do you think Americans would respond if a business owner in Cancun put up a "This is Mexico, when ordering, speak Spanish" sign in his restaraunt? (I realize there's a difference between being a tourist and a resident, but I think most of you would probably take your business to the establishment without the offensive sign)

Haha, I honestly wouldn't care at all, and would expect that type of thing in a foreign country that I am a visitor to. Mexicans speak Spanish. I accept that. It would be his loss, though, as I assume a large portion of his profits in Cancun would be from American tourists. I will happily take my money elsewhere if I am unable to order somewhere.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
Furthermore, I enjoy it when servers at Mexican restaraunts speak to me in basic Spanish. A little language education is good for everybody.

That's a bit different than going to McDonalds and struggling to communicate with the Hispanic cashier.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
The anti-Spanish crusade in this country is getting really out of hand.

Well, I think the illegal immigration and refusal to learn English is getting out of hand myself.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Sounds like unnecessary xenophobia to me. Is it that hard to understand "bistec con queso?" Are you so damned afraid of talking to somebody in a language other than English for a few basic words that pretty much everybody understands?


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User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2841 times:

If I'm in Spain or Mexico - I'll speak spanish when ordering at a restaurant. When I'm in the US - I'll speak english and expect the waiter/waitress to understand.

Is that so wrong?

QFF


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 4):
I would order in Spanish with the help of a English to Spanish Dictionary.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

Agreed. I don't think employees should be expected to take orders in a foreign language, but I suspect that there aren't many Spanish speakers that expect to be able to order in Spanish in the U.S. Therefore, this sign only serves to send a negative message to customers.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineTIA From Albania, joined Mar 2006, 524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Quote:
Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells "freedom fries" to protest France's opposition to the Iraq war.

That says it all.


User currently onlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 7):
Is it that hard to understand "bistec con queso?"

On the contrary, is it really that hard to learn that phrase in English? Or is that too xenophobic to ask?

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Great idea! I can imagine a new trend everywhere...

This is Israel, when ordering "speak Hebrew"
This is Japan, when ordering "speak Japanese"
This is Russia, when ordering "speak Russian"
This is Greece, when ordering speak Greek and so on...

Plenty of Americans traveling over the world will lose some weight once they realize they will be unable to get a meal if they don't speak the proper language. Suddenly, their assumption that everybody in hotels and restaurants around the world should speak their language won't work anymore. Another brilliant American showing the rest of the world that the so-called "Ugly American" is just a stereotype.


User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2841 times:

Quote:
"We're out to help these people, but they've got to help themselves, too."

Why do I have the feeling this jackass also would tell people the best way to learn a language is to be emmersed in it?  sarcastic 


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2830 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 11):

On the contrary, is it really that hard to learn that phrase in English? Or is that too xenophobic to ask?

I'm inclined to think that even the most inept speakers of English can muster an understandable "steak wit cheese". I have a hard time believing this guy was dealing with a lot of Spanish orders prior to posting this sign.

Quoting TIA (Reply 10):
Quote:
Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells "freedom fries" to protest France's opposition to the Iraq war.

That says it all.

"Freedom Fries?!? Oh shit! He really showed us!!!"
-Chirac



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 11):
On the contrary, is it really that hard to learn that phrase in English? Or is that too xenophobic to ask?

No, why can't the dude, since he's in a heavy latino immigrant, have a menu that's in English with spanish underneath it? Why not when somebody orders in Spanish he understands but responds in English, politely, instead of taking this heavy handed approach?

Immigrants come to this country for a better life and a better community. What does it tell them when businesses react to them with such an attitude?



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User currently onlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
No, why can't the dude, since he's in a heavy latino immigrant, have a menu that's in English with spanish underneath it?

Why should he have to do the work to adapt to their lack of English skills?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
What does it tell them when businesses react to them with such an attitude?

It tells them they should learn English if they want some good cheesesteaks.

I agree the political undertones of the sign are a bit overkill, but the principle of the matter, that they should order in English if the owner wants them to, remains true.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2797 times:

I have no problem with the owner wanting to take an order in English, but refusing service to patrons who can't speak it is just plain stupid. With what I showed you above in my last post, at least spanish speaking patrons can understand that the owner wants to speak in English, and he can still serve them. What if a new immigrant who doesn't speak English wants to eat there, comes in for his first cheesesteak and doesn't know how to speak English? Refuse him service?

Instead, with the menu idea I posted above, and a response from the owner in English, it seems to work out alright and send a message as well.



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User currently onlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2797 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 17):
Refuse him service?

Someone didn't read the article:

Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineBoeinglover24 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 305 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

As an Asian-American.....
I don't have any problem when people from a specific country speak to each other in their own languages....But what does bother me is that those people that live and work here not exerting any effort to learn the language and expect to be able to go anywhere and find someone that speaks their language......You don't even have to assimilate to the culture just learn the language and you'll help all Americans not mentioning yourself...



Uhhh What?
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 18):
Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.

If that's the case, then I have no problem with it.

The sign however, a little unnecessary.



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User currently onlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 20):
The sign however, a little unnecessary.

I agree, it is obvious that he is making a statement, but if that's what he wants to do with his store, so be it.

Quoting Boeinglover24 (Reply 19):
But what does bother me is that those people that live and work here not exerting any effort to learn the language and expect to be able to go anywhere and find someone that speaks their language

 checkmark 

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
(I realize there's a difference between being a tourist and a resident, but I think most of you would probably take your business to the establishment without the offensive sign)

The sign is not the least bit offensive - unless your a bleeding heart or our an immigrant that has thus far refused to learn the language of the country in which you now live.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 3):
Furthermore, I enjoy it when servers at Mexican restaraunts speak to me in basic Spanish.

Furthermore, we're not talking about a Mexican Restaurant here - it's a damn sandwich shop. I think it's kinda cool in a French Restaurant to hear french too. Apples and oranges.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 8):
When I'm in the US - I'll speak english and expect the waiter/waitress to understand.

There are some places you'd simply starve QFF . . . unfortunately.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 9):
Therefore, this sign only serves to send a negative message to customers.

Horsecrap. The sign serves to send a message alright. "You live here now, you better be able to habla or you're not going to get anywhere in the place.".

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 20):
The sign however, a little unnecessary.

Well, if it's the policy of the store, and there's no sign, what would you suggest happen . . . some non-english speaker order and everyone ignore him/her? He sign is necessary. The sign is spot on. It's about time.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 17):
What if a new immigrant who doesn't speak English wants to eat there, comes in for his first cheesesteak and doesn't know how to speak English? Refuse him service?

Splitting hairs TBar . . . . I'll bet you a decent Martini that's not happening. Someone new will have a friend along to translate.

Now if we could just get the owners of all the gas stations in the DC area to do this - for their employees!!!

Quoting Boeinglover24 (Reply 19):
As an Asian-American.....
I don't have any problem when people from a specific country speak to each other in their own languages....But what does bother me is that those people that live and work here not exerting any effort to learn the language and expect to be able to go anywhere and find someone that speaks their language......You don't even have to assimilate to the culture just learn the language and you'll help all Americans not mentioning yourself...

Ahhh, common sense at last . . . rather the the Politically Correct kiss everyone's ass crowd.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26493 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
The sign is not the least bit offensive

Sure it is. It isn't offensive because it says you should order in English, it is offensive because it insults people's intelligence in assuming that they don't know that already. Unless they go up to the window and the guy starts speaking to them in their native language, people are going to assume that they need to speak English, no matter how limited it is. It is like saying "take your language and your culture and shove it" without gaining a single thing.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
unless your a bleeding heart or our an immigrant that has thus far refused to learn the language of the country in which you now live.

Well, I propose this then. Every single person in Louisiana MUST learn both French and English. After all, those are the languages of that state (which actually has official languages, unlike the US as a whole). Now, I guess I can keep on living in New Orleans (though, I would have to learn the nuances of Acadian French, since that is actually official) since I speak both languages, but most people there would have no chance.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2728 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 16):
Why should he have to do the work to adapt to their lack of English skills?

Because he's trying to sell something? Believe it or not, in the service industry, the person or company selling has to adapt to what the clients want... not the other way around.

I know that he says he won't refuse service - but if he won't, then what's the sign for? Does he think that some people around him haven't noticed they're in the US of A yet? Does he think that the people around him need a constant reminder?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
The sign is not the least bit offensive - unless your a bleeding heart or our an immigrant that has thus far refused to learn the language of the country in which you now live.

Strangely enough (and just to clarify, I'm not specifically pointing at you with this) I could imagine a huge uproar if restaurants here started putting up signs "Sie sind in Deutschland, also sprechen Sie Deutsch!"... it would not only be seen as xenophobic (which I would agree with), it would also be seen as plainly idiotic... which I'd also agree with...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
Horsecrap. The sign serves to send a message alright. "You live here now, you better be able to habla or you're not going to get anywhere in the place.".

So everyone speaking Spanish now lives in the US of A? It couldn't, just perhaps, on occasion be tourists? Has Philadelphia dropped of the tourist map now?


Is it his right to put up that sign? Sure it is. Is it a smart thing to do? Well... is insulting your customers a good thing to do? And, yes, this sign is an insult to those not able to speak English well enough... or even at all.

Strangely enough, if someone asks me a question in English right here in the middle of Frankfurt, I'm glad that I'm able to answer in English; same is true for French; and never would the words "Sprechen Sie gefälligst Deutsch" cross my lips, because I would consider it as just about the most impolite thing to do.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 24):
So everyone speaking Spanish now lives in the US of A? It couldn't, just perhaps, on occasion be tourists? Has Philadelphia dropped of the tourist map now?

 sarcastic 

C'mon, quite a stretch there . . . I didn't say that, I didn't imply that.

And there is a distinction between residents and tourists.

I don't think there's a hell of a lot of tourists hopping off the plane, and grabbing a cab over to this neighborhood for a Philly Cheesesteak, do you?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
It is like saying "take your language and your culture and shove it" without gaining a single thing.

It says nothing of 'your culture'. I says nothing of "shove it'. I says this is the America, we use English here.


25 Post contains images LO231 : I says: Good English there! Regards, LO231
26 LOT767-300ER : To whomever compared this to a restaurant owner in Cancun and demanded that an American speak Spanish. There is a huge difference between being a TOUR
27 LO231 : How will the shop owner know who's a tourist and who's not? I mean there will be peaople from Spanish speaking countries visiting those who live ther
28 Leskova : No, I don't think that'll happen a lot... but a couple of days into their stay in Philly, it just might. I've never been to Philly, so I cannot comme
29 Xpat : It's rather ironic that his sign is in ENGLISH. If some of his customers can't read English, it's rather difficult for them to follow the instructions
30 Post contains images ANCFlyer : And as soon as I moved to Germany in 1979 I began to assimilate . . . learning to order food, learning basic directions, train travel, etc. And also
31 Greasespot : And that distinction would be what? Perhaps all Mexicans will have to waer Sombrero's so everyone will know they are tourists.....Maybe make Germans
32 ANCFlyer : Funny, sarcastic - but funny. The distinction obviously is not going to be outwardly apparent . . . no one expects a visiting tousits to wear a sign
33 Post contains images Greasespot : Atleast you can take it when someone pokes fun at you...... The point is in Quebec has the same language history......It started as a few immigrants r
34 LO231 : o Then he'll refuse them and loose their business. No worries, it's his loss, nothing to worry about... they'll go to McDonalds. regards, LO231
35 LHMARK : "We only take money from those who give it to us in English." People are ordering a friggin' cheesesteak, not making a political statement. It should
36 Post contains images LO231 : Voila. Regards, LO231
37 ANCFlyer : I'll wager the three or four people a week he MAY turn away won't make an impact on a damn thing. Furthermore, I'll wager that of those three or four
38 Gunsontheroof : I acknowleged this...I only used the example to illustrate how unwelcoming the sign is. Try reading the whole post before you respond. This is pretty
39 Post contains images Newark777 : So basically, you have the same point of view, but don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by pointing it out? Harry
40 PHLBOS : True, 9th Street & Passyunk Avenue (where Geno's & Pat's are located) isn't exactly the easiest place to get go; lots of traffic lights, STOP signs &
41 Chrisjake : if his establishment is in such a diverse area, why not just have a picture menu? or an order-by-number menu? the asian restaurants around me that hav
42 Post contains images Halls120 : Since I know enough Spanish to read a restaurant menu printing in Spanish, no problem. I've been many places in the world where English isn't spoken.
43 N1120A : Which anyone who spends 5 minutes anywhere here will know already. Ok, so why can't someone point at a cheesesteak and clog their arteries along with
44 LO231 : Always? You have been outside of the States, haven't you? Be fair, out of how many times have you been helped in English? Do you think I speak German
45 Nancy : Wow looks like somebody wanted some free advertising.
46 Newark777 : If you had read the article, you would have realized that no one is being kicked out for not knowing English. If someone is visting the US, I really
47 Jalto27R : Whoever is complaining about this sign at GENO'S in Philly, has obviously never been to Geno's. You see, ordering a cheesesteak at Pat's or Geno's is
48 Post contains images Halls120 : They certainly could have. If they had, I'd just have gone to another one. No big deal. When I'm in a major metropolitan area, english is indeed comm
49 Gunsontheroof : I've actually heard of Geno's before, but I didn't register in my head that this was the same place. I seem to recall trying to convince the family t
50 Tootallsd : You may wish to contact Berlitz and ask about the cost of an immersion course! I do think that most immigrants, legal and otherwise, know that there
51 Newark777 : Interesting? If by interesting you mean causing many more problems than anything it would solve, than you are right. Harry
52 Tootallsd : As long as we are talking about English language, I think we need to get it right. You meant 'then' not than. And why does this have to be so binary.
53 Gunsontheroof : Seriously. Just look at how messed up Canada is...
54 Post contains images Newark777 : I think it is good to encourage people to know a second language. I wish I did. But that is completely different than being a nation of two languages
55 Post contains images Airbus3801 : So messed up indeed Exactly, I mean what is he accomplishing. I am sure this is the most American patriotic thing we can do, post a sign saying order
56 Post contains images Newark777 : I mean, why do things in life unless it has some deeper impact on human kind. All you people are so trivial. What did he accomplish? He made a statem
57 N1120A : Which is exactly what people should do now. I did read the article. The sign is moronic. I feel like going to Geno's and ordering in German.
58 Post contains images Newark777 : Oh no, that would really show them! If you go there and act like an ass, they would just roll their eyes and move to the next customer. A bunch of Ph
59 N1120A : The only ones acting like asses are Geno's Hopefully it will all go to Pat's
60 Itsjustme : "Memorials to Faulkner are posted at his shop. For this reason alone, if I ever make it to Philly, I'll be stopping in to say hello (in English) and s
61 AR385 : "Situated in a South Philadelphia immigrant neighborhood, Geno's - which together with its chief rival, Pat's King of Steaks, forms the epicenter of a
62 LTBEWR : I think instead of making the customers speak English, they ought to make sure the order takers speak English and have some brains! I find it very ann
63 ANother : I live in a country that has four national languages - including one with less than 70000 speakers (and which has four dialects). I simply cannot imag
64 Newark777 : Haha, probably because those languages are hardly spoken here. Those immigrants have mostly learned English already. All the other immigrants have go
65 JAGflyer : The official langauge of the USA is ENGLISH. You come to the USA (legally or illegaly) you make an effort to learn the ENGLISH langauge. I hate seeing
66 AR385 : Really? You should visit the Chinese and Indian sweatshops in New York. JAGflyer, the US has no official language.
67 Santosdumont : Lemme play devil's advocate for just a second. It's entirely possible that tourists would want to find the best cheesesteak in Philly and not settle
68 Halls120 : At the federal level, you are correct. However, in the following states, english IS the official language, according to state law: Alabama, Alaska, A
69 Newark777 : Don't give me that accentology junk, it's called improper English. Next you're going to be saying that ebonics is acceptable. Well there you go, the
70 AR385 : Will you explain something to me then: What happens when a Federal law contradicts a State Law? In Mexico if a State Law goes against Federal Law the
71 Newark777 : Yes, I believe the Federal laws supersede the state ones. However, since there is no Federal law concerning national language, the state laws stand.
72 Santosdumont : Slow your roll, Newark, I'm not saying it isn't improper. Pronouncing "nuclear" like "nucular" and using non-existent words like "irregardless of" an
73 N1120A : English is not the only official language of Louisiana. French is also official
74 WellHung : When I went there I nearly needed an interpreter to make sense of the jibber-jabber coming from the guys behind the counter, so they're the last peopl
75 Halls120 : Depends on the federal law involved. If Congress adds language that makes it explicitly clear that it intends to occupy the field to the exclusion of
76 Gunsontheroof : What's unacceptable about ebonics? Do you really expect 300 million people separated by thousands of miles to speak exactly the same way? Language ev
77 Post contains images Newark777 : Master ebonics? I believe most people call those folks rednecks or white trash. I'm sure it is. Thankfully I don't live in Newark. Tell me one job (b
78 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : Tell me one job interview that you've had where you've spoken to the person giving the interview in the same way that you speak to your friends. I'm
79 Newark777 : So you're saying these people only speak ebonics around their friends? Doesn't seem much of a language if they slip in and out of it as they please.
80 Gunsontheroof : Ebonics isn't a language. People don't speak ebonics, they speak English that includes regional slang just like anyone else in this country. My point
81 Post contains images Newark777 : That's a broad generalization if I've ever seen one. See, you even say it yourself, ebonics is a result of a lack of education. Why should we accept
82 Gunsontheroof : No. It's not. I think the fact that there are more blacks in prison than college is citation enough. You live right across the river from one of the
83 Itsjustme : That's one of the most moronic statements I've ever read on this board. Most blacks? That's a ridiculously broad statement. I don't suppose you have
84 AR385 : I appreciate your answers an clarifications. Thanks.
85 Gunsontheroof : Spare me the personal insults. I have the grace to treat you and Newark with respect despite our differences of opinion on this issue, the least you
86 Post contains images Halls120 : Ah yes, let's blame the schools. It's their fault students don't do their class or home assignments, and their fault students don't come to class. DC
87 Slider : Actually, it's just getting warmed up. Better late than never. If I'm at the airport, no. If I'm dealing with visitors, or people struggling to funct
88 UALPHLCS : As someone who lives int eh Philadelphia area, and has frequented Geno's numerous times, mostly after a good night at the bar, I find it difficult to
89 ME AVN FAN : why ? I mean, it is obvious that many people working in restaurants only understand the dominating regional or national language, so that a minimal k
90 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : Myron Magnet? Is that you?!? I'm not suggesting that the schools are 100% responsible, but I think that spending less money on F-22s and cruise missl
91 IFEMaster : Bingo. Lets reverse the roles a little bit. I live in Southern California, and every now and then have to venture in to LA. There are numerous occass
92 Post contains images AerospaceFan : Unless you're in Spain, or Mexico or some other Latin American country, you really shouldn't have to understand Spanish to fulfill any work obligatio
93 Newark777 : Throwing money at schools doesn't solve the problems, and the NJ public school system is the perfect example of that. The urban school districts have
94 Post contains images AerospaceFan : You would think that America starves its schools of money from all the whining that we hear these days, but in fact, American spending for public scho
95 N1120A : Singapore also places a significantly higher emphasis on education at every level, including at the top levels of their dictatorship...er...governmen
96 Post contains images NWOrientDC10 : Because this man is taking a stand. This is your interpretation. I've been in many eating establishments owned by Italian and Greek proprieters. They
97 Post contains images Halls120 : Sure I can. DC public schools are near the top in per capita spending, yet they are near the bottom in academic achievement. So much for your hypothe
98 Gunsontheroof : Yeah, the Spanish speakers have got him down, and dammit, he's not gonna take it anymore.... I can see the arguments for people coming to this countr
99 Cadet985 : I was there today, around 3 PM, and even considering it was the middle of the afternoon - in between lunch and dinner - Geno's was MOBBED. Oh - and t
100 Gunsontheroof : I agree. However, there's one important thing that I think we've overlooked here. There's been a lot of talk in this thread about the audacity of ill
101 Newark777 : I feel just the same about legal immigrants. And if that's what he wants to do, then so be it. And it's not like he's out protesting, it's only a dam
102 Gunsontheroof : I agree that people moving to a new country should make an effort to learn the local language, but I think the fact that so many Spanish speaking peo
103 Post contains images AerospaceFan : It seems to me that your criticism is misplaced. No one is suggesting that the free market shouldn't be allowed to work, or that people shouldn't be
104 Newark777 : Yes, but it makes me angry when it affects me personally. When I go in to order some fast food, and Juan behind the counter can't figure out what I'm
105 Post contains images AerospaceFan : It's irritating to me as well that whenever I go to the drive-through at a McDonald's, there is a good chance I will have to give my order twice due
106 Post contains images AerospaceFan : I was listening to a bit from an old Groucho Marx show (You Bet Your Life) on XM Radio, and it was amazing to me that old Groucho felt it necessary t
107 Gunsontheroof : The United States isn't going to be around forever. It's going to cease to exist in its current form someday, whether it be the result of a massive c
108 Newark777 : If it's his first day in the country and he can't speak English, maybe he shouldn't have been hired in the first place to perform a job that dealt wi
109 Gunsontheroof : Actually, I would say all of the blame lies on the employer. I never hear any of you folks in the anti-alien crowd giving the people hiring these fol
110 Newark777 : That's why I believe we should enforce the immigration laws equally, and come down hard on employers of the aliens. If we don't give them a reason to
111 Gunsontheroof : There's clearly work here for them. Howabout we make it easier for them to be here legally? Everyone wins. That's rather uncompassionate of you. You
112 Newark777 : They would win until the nation gets watered down with cheap, cheap labor. Do you think our current infrastructures could handle that deluge of peopl
113 Post contains images AerospaceFan : I beg to differ; I, along with the much-fabled Lou Dobbs (   ) and many Republican Congressman, favor coming very hard on the employers of illegal a
114 Post contains images AR385 : I don't know about that, but it certainly would help Americans if somebody learned another language. Most countries in South America have millions of
115 AR385 : That is simply not true. The jobs hispanics do in restaurants are the least important ones. Think cleaning tables or clearing dishes. There are alway
116 AR385 : Most reputable restaurants have bilingual menus so you don't have to make the effort.
117 AR385 : And I always wonder why you just don't round them all up, take their fingerprints and send them back. To Mexico, Central America, China, India and al
118 Gunsontheroof : I work at Home Depot. Our illegal immigrant employees (janitors) aren't allowed in the break room. They eat meals in the janitors closet. I'll hear n
119 Post contains links AerospaceFan : Why are they even allowed to work at Home Depot if they are known to be illegal? That would appear to be against the law. If this is true, perhaps th
120 Itsjustme : Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 91): Lets reverse the roles a little bit. I live in Southern California, and every now and then have to venture in to LA. The
121 AR385 : That is simply not true, again, and I've seen it in many restaurants. You are taking a generalization and running away with it to fundamentalize your
122 AR385 : Of course not. Very few Americans travel to the interior of the country. The ones that do, generally speak Spanish and generally have other interests
123 Post contains images Halls120 : I would suggest that having a large number of people living in this country who cannot participate fully in the political process because they refuse
124 Itsjustme : I don't have any agenda and I'm not the one who made the generalizations, you did. You said this: That is simply not true. The jobs Hispanics do in r
125 Post contains links Slider : http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...US-LIFE-ENGLISH.xml&src=rss&rpc=22 Some namby-pamby human rights outfit in Philly is "investigating" Geno's for
126 AerospaceFan : I would say that it doesn't even rise to the level of discrimination on the basis of national origin or ethnicity. Discriminating against someone who
127 Cadet985 : I have been to MANY reputable restaurants in and around Philadelphia and New York, and have NEVER seen a bilingual menu. Marc
128 Slider : This isn't an issue about compassion, for starters. That whole approach is exactly why we're in this muck--too many bleeding hearts like our own Jorg
129 Newark777 : Very true, I never see Spanish writing at all at any nice restaurant. Even if they have a Spanish menu hiding somewhere, they don't make it known. Ha
130 AR385 : It's not a generalization, it's a fact. And since when is it your job to tell me I can write something or not? I'm not splitting any hairs. Your comm
131 AR385 : I'm having trouble understanding your comment. Would you please perhaps try to elaborate? I believe you are misquoting me or something.
132 AR385 : I respectfully disagree to your idea that there would not be a recession. I happen to have a different opinion. The multiplier effect of such a loss
133 AR385 : If you take the time to read my posts correctly, you'll see I was talking about Mexico. Oh, so Slider, you live in Houston? I don't know where you ea
134 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - so that the "national security / security of the borders / protection of American language " now depends on such trivial matters ? I hope you are j
135 Slider : I'd be curious to hear where you get your economics from on that, genuinely. Because while the problem with them being here is massive, their contrib
136 IFEMaster : It simply is true, my friend. Yes, there are hispanics doing the menial jobs, but there are plenty of restaurants employing plenty of hispanics in pr
137 Gunsontheroof : Plenty of American companies hire illegal immigrants, that's why they come here. Given that management's justification for such treatment is "corpora
138 Newark777 : If you don't care about them being here illegally, then you are part of the problem. You mean people who have broken the laws of the US, and and you
139 Gunsontheroof : My apologies for failing to be a model citizen such as yourself. I think that people from any country should be able to come here to work if there ar
140 Post contains images Newark777 : I accept. That is not the point I was making. The point is that no matter how desperate you are, it is no excuse to break the law here. Period. And i
141 Itsjustme : Apology not accepted. Try harder.
142 Itsjustme : It's not my job. You can write whatever you want, regardless of how silly it is. I'm just pointing out that you have a habit of making some pretty ha
143 Itsjustme : Interesting. So, what you are saying is, it is Home Depot's "corporate policy" to violate federal immigration laws. Hmmmmmmm. That is a policy I'd li
144 AR385 : And it's people with your kind of thinking that are wrong. Not familiar with Tony's,? You probably eat at Luby's or McDonald's all the time. Try Hous
145 Gunsontheroof : I suppose that's what I'm saying. I'll try to find out more about what the full story is, but I don't think it should come as a surprise that America
146 AR385 : As I've said, it's amazing to me as an American how we can be the only people and country in the world who are not taught or encouraged to learn anot
147 Post contains links Itsjustme : Uh oh AR385, it looks like you are proven wrong, yet again. Thank you for continuing to make it such an easy task to accomplish. http://www2.hbuhsd.o
148 Gunsontheroof : I don't think that one high school offering a course in Chinese is proof that American students are being challenged to learn a foreign language. Man
149 Itsjustme : I agree with everything you have said. Sort of. You are correct in that one school offering a course in Chinese isn't proof that American students ar
150 Santosdumont : I agree up to a point that immigration and national security are intertwined, but to even suggest that the "American" language and culture are under
151 Post contains images Itsjustme :
152 Post contains images Asturias : That's funny, here in Spain the *least* reputable most touristy restaurants have bi/tri-lingual menus (with pictures more often than not) The absolut
153 Halls120 : When I was in junior high school in the 60's we were strongly encouraged to take a foreign language. In high school, virtually every classmate of min
154 Slider : It has nothing to do with giving a damn about those less fortunate--I do that in my every day life, in my Kiwanis club, in my community, volunteer ef
155 Post contains images IFEMaster : Yep, based on that very concise argument of yours, full of fact and example, I'd say you were right and I was wrong Listen pal, I eat out in LA at le
156 Slider : I just also spoke with someone from Pappas' customer care, which encompasses the entire Pappas family of restaurants (Pappas, Pappasito's, Pappadeaux
157 ME AVN FAN : all quite correct, BUT not uniquely US-American problems at all. Other countries on earth have very much similar problems EXACTLY in this regard. BUT
158 AerospaceFan : Instinctively, I would disagree. There are at least three probable reasons, in order of importance, that I think you may be mistaken: 1. Unlike other
159 ME AVN FAN : I am confused. When visiting the USA I always have seen white Hispanics, and many of them DID speak English. And I have realized that numerous US-Ang
160 ME AVN FAN : points 2 and 3 are true and undisputed, number 1 however is of minimal relevance as laws and even points in constitutions are subject to change
161 Santosdumont : Ahhhh, Ooooook, Slider, you, uh, go ahead and do that... The use of bilingual menus hardly represents an assault. I'd be worried if Spanish-only, Chi
162 Newark777 : While there are many who now speak Spanish here, remember that the vast majority are in the poor, working class. All business and commerce is still do
163 Santosdumont : Indeed, when Americans are forced to trade stocks in Mandarin or fill out refinancing docs in Turkish then "assault" will fit just fine.
164 Post contains images Newark777 : Right, like thay would happen. Harry
165 UALPHLCS : Couple of points to get this back on topic. 1) Geno's is a cheesesteak place not a full service restaurant. You walk up to the window place you order
166 Slider : It has nothing to DO with superficial anything....have you not been paying attention? I've outlined countless times the impact on our macroeconomy, f
167 Santosdumont : Of course you have, Slider. And your tireless efforts are duly noted. As I said in a previous post, the issue of illegality in immigration and its sw
168 Newark777 : No, it is simply the lack of language skills and the Mexican flag waving that pisses me off. For people that wanted to escape that country so badly,
169 Slider : I've not said that, nor even intimated it, if that was your original motivation for your post. Denounce their Mexican citizenship. Stop sending the m
170 Santosdumont : I agree with significant portions of your post. For sure, the issue of illegals paying taxes is about fundamental fairness to every one that does pay
171 Post contains images Halls120 : Last Sunday my golf foursome was OOC, so I wondered to the course looking for a single to play with. The starter hooked me up with a guy visiting Qua
172 DeltaDC9 : Most language classes in high school, universities, and self training use the immersion technique. Are you saying everyone is wrong? He turns away no
173 Marcus : We have tens of thousands of American and Canadian retirees living in Mexico, that DO NOT speak Spanish and think that with words like "baño" and "po
174 DeltaDC9 : Yes, especially if your employees only understand Spanish, and/or you want your customers to get what they intended to order. Its your place, do what
175 Halls120 : If you want to, go ahead. Americans living in Mexico ought to learn the predominant language spoken in Mexico.
176 Post contains images Slider : And I think the USA needs to rethink dual citizenship entirely. It's on my laundry list of agenda items that I'd undertake if I were President. I app
177 Santosdumont : Of course, depending on when immigrants arrive or when they start studying English, there's gonna be some type of residual accent. Henry Kissinger is
178 ME AVN FAN : why ? double-citizenship for millions of people in the world reflects the personal reality why ? to support their families back home, and quite btw.
179 Newark777 : Yes, if you want. If I lived in Mexico, I would do my best to learn Spanish. Of course, you can't expect first generation immigrants not to have an a
180 ME AVN FAN : it is NOT "not respecting", it quite to the contrary is showing that the "opportunity-giving" country gives sufficient both to live personally AND to
181 Newark777 : So you don't use the term African-American? Except it sucks up money that would otherwise be spent in the US economy. Harry
182 NWOrientDC10 : "There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of
183 AR385 : You are using America to make money. You participate in the economy, I suppose, so you are getting a salary. Are you "disrespecting" America? They ar
184 Gunsontheroof : Mmmmm k. No, it's not OK...that's why I think they should be able to become American citizens. I don't object to the enforcement of immigration laws,
185 Post contains images AR385 : That would be ideal. Have you any idea how long, expensive, humilliating, inhumane, stereotyped and corrupt the process is.? Knowing what they are go
186 Slider : Brilliant. Teddy had it figured out back then....somehow we got dumber along the decades. We'll agree to disagree 180 degrees on this. You make a goo
187 Dougloid : If Geno's being an asshole then everyone will be going down the street. As a practical matter there was a food show on PBS that went to Genos among ot
188 DeltaDC9 : The man was truly one of the greatest Presidents in our history, and his words are relevant to this day. In my family, we have NEVER referred to ours
189 DETA737 : What surprises me most about this thread is how people on both sides of the political spectrum seem to care so much about what this guy does with his
190 RayChuang : Actually, I kind of care because the city government authorities in Philadelphia could hit Geno's Steaks with a fine and could use legal means to clo
191 ME AVN FAN : good question. it may be a politically correct term to describe US-American Negroes who dislike this term, while I can imagine that all those US Blac
192 Newark777 : I don't like it, but I don't believe that it is a crime. That is what is great about America, you are allowed to waive the Mexican flag all you want.
193 AR385 : This is a misconception. A Mexican immigrant gets a job through a "legal" contact. That legal contact takes 50% of his money. So there, 50% of the mo
194 AR385 : And that makes you very happy. Great. Enjoy it.
195 Post contains links Slider : It's not a misconception. Sure, there are added costs, but they are in fact pouring money back to Mexico on a scale that eclipses that of any other n
196 LO231 : I guess, a Mexican passport or driver's licence, so easily obtained in th US, will do for Western Union.... Regards, LO231
197 AR385 : The numbers you are providing are undoubtely true. But they need to be taken in context. We have a GDP a little over one trillion dollars. So, it's no
198 Itsjustme : The illegals are lucky they're earning anything to be sending home.
199 Newark777 : [Edited 2006-06-16 05:33:09]
200 AR385 : What do you mean? I don't get it.
201 ME AVN FAN : A) the person who went to the USA, for example Charlie Chaplin in his times, went there to make money, possibly became/becomes US-American, but still
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