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Refereeing The World Cup  
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

So does anyone else think that the standard of refereeing at the World Cup has been particularly poor so far? I just finished watching Korea vs. Togo, and Graham Poll gave the best display of impartial, fair, and by-the-book refereeing yet. In all other games so far (and I've seen them all), there have been some serious questions hanging over the validity of some goals and general direction of decision that could change games:

At least one of Germany's and one of Costa Rica's goals were offside.

Both of Ecuador's goals were questionable. The second one was definitely offside.

The decisions against Peter Crouch against Paraguay were totally ridiculous.

Trinidad & Tobago's sending off was unfair, especially as Freddie Ljungberg had been laying down some atrocious tackles and got away with them.

The lead-up to Argentina's first goal involved a hand ball by an Ivory Coast player. You could argue that the ref played an advantage, but when he does that, he must indicate it by holding out both arms. It looked to me like he asw it and just totally ignored it.

Japan's goal against Australia should not have stood as the Soccerroo keeper was impeded deliberately.

These are just some of the things I can think of off the top of my head. When will FIFA get their referee selections right???

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
So does anyone else think that the standard of refereeing at the World Cup has been particularly poor so far?

I've just been having the same conversation elsewhere. There seems to be a lot of guesswork and the referees are being conned too easily. It'll be interesting to see how they handle any needle matches.


User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
At least one of Germany's

Which one? If it was the short cross....you're wrong, there was a defending player barely out of screen shot keeping all players on side.  smile 

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
and one of Costa Rica's goals were offside

The second goal? I have not seen the replay, but i think he WAS off !!

I have not seen ALL the games so i can't comment on them. But i do know from experience, refereeing a game at that speed and high caliber is difficult at best. The offside calls / non calls are very tough. Needing a replay to review 2 or 3 times and squinting ant the tv is a sure sign it was a tough call.

The games that i have seen, the officiating has been better than good.  Wink



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

And why was Magnin booked? He hardly touched Henry.

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 2):
But i do know from experience, refereeing a game at that speed and high caliber is difficult at best. The offside calls / non calls are very tough.

Offside is tough, I'll grant you, and I think they get those right most of the time but there have been far more non-events penalised than I'm used to seeing and some blatant fouls that have gone unpunished, e.g. the "foul" on Schwarzer for Nakamura's goal. If goalkeepers are "unfairly" protected by referees I don't think they can suddenly, in the middle of a game, decide not to give that protection. Lack of consistency - how often have we heard that?

I just get the impression that some referees are jusy assuming that something must have happened, but they're not sure what, and are making a decision for the sake of it.


User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1896 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
The decisions against Peter Crouch against Paraguay were totally ridiculous.

Let's remember, we don't know what Crouch said to the ref.

Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineAviationMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

The refereeing has been much much better than what we saw four years ago. Just ask Italy  Silly

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):

Trinidad & Tobago's sending off was unfair, especially as Freddie Ljungberg had been laying down some atrocious tackles and got away with them.



Quoting David L (Reply 3):
And why was Magnin booked? He hardly touched Henry.

It's always been like this. The refs are normally much more tolerant when it comes to the famous players.  Wink

Magnin was booked because it was Henry he "touched". Had it been the other way around, there would not have been a card. Probably Magnin also shouted something nice at the referee.  Silly


User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1878 times:

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 5):
The refs are normally much more tolerant when it comes to the famous players.

I think you're right. I also think that referees are leniant towards the home crowd. Thinking back to France...Portugal...Korea...they had some very luck decisions go in their favour. Sol Campbell's "offside" goal springs to mind.


User currently offlineAzza40 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Can i add something else please? Have over-head kicks been banned? I have already seen 3 over-head kicks being given a free kick for dangerous play! I think its a joke!

Aaron  sly 



Not been on here for a good 2/3 years!
User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1854 times:

Quoting Azza40 (Reply 7):
Can i add something else please? Have over-head kicks been banned? I have already seen 3 over-head kicks being given a free kick for dangerous play! I think its a joke!

It depends how close it is to other players. there's no set distance, but if the referee deems that the boot comes close to another player's head, then it's a high-studs call and a free kick is awarded. On the other hand, if there are no players within several feet, and there is no danger of kicking someone else in the face, then the maneouvre is allowed.

But I agree with you - a couple of the bicycle kicks that I've seen ruled out have been perfectly fine.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8467 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
Japan's goal against Australia should not have stood as the Soccerroo keeper was impeded deliberately.

Which was something he later admitted to.


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
and one of Costa Rica's goals were offside.

What? Do you really know what are u talking about?


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1812 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
one of Costa Rica's goals were offside.

See below.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 10):
Do you really know what are u talking about?

I do. The way I saw it, it may have been too close to call. Maybe it's just the camera angle, the angle in which the line man was standing or simply co-incidence. In some of the replays of Wanchope's goal in question, it may have looked like he was just barely standing in an offside position, but in the other, it may have been just an optical illusion, as the pass was done and Wanchope started running forward to the ball, so he could score. It's a matter of perception really.

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
These are just some of the things I can think of off the top of my head. When will FIFA get their referee selections right???

It will probably never be right. Fact is, they're all human and make mistakes, even the best do. For example, nobody ever knows if the infamous "Wembley Goal" was a legitimate goal or not. Plus there might always be some kind of bias by the referee in place, which can contribute to bad calls. As long as referees are human people like all of us, it will be dificult to see a match ever being lead by the book by any referee.


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

I always think it's a bit harsh when people criticise the linesmen for getting an offside decision fractionally wrong. I tend to marvel at how many they get right. Think about it, they have to have one eye on the ball, one eye on the player making the run and be able to see where he is a the precise moment the ball is kicked. That's just a physical impossibility much of the time (especially with long passes), and yet we see endless replays about a "poor" decision when someone is marginally offside yet allowed to go.

The referees themselves will always be a product of the type of football played where they are from. So an English or Scottish referee is much more inclined to allow robust challenges in the air than one from elsewhere for example. Take Sol Campbell's "goal" in Euro 2004 against Portugal. All the English thought the challenge was fine, the rest of Europe did not, and it is true to say that had that goal being scored in the Premier League it would have stood.

There clearly have been mistakes, of course. The goal against Australia absolutely shouldn't have stood, but overall I don't think it's been too bad this World Cup. At least we haven't seen the mayhem of red cards we got at say, the 1990 World Cup.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1783 times:

What I can't stand of refereeing are the stupid bookings they give and not enough yellow cards for violent fouls. A ref can make a mistake on a close offside call, or whether a foul was in the box or not, but did you guys watch Italy-Ghana? Iaquinta suffered a pretty nasty foul from the back when the play had been stopped for offside (I think it was Kuffour who made the foul) and nothing by the ref. Also Totti suffered a bad foul and not even a yellow. Yet Iaquinta then threw the ball and did get a yellow.  banghead 

regards  Smile



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1773 times:

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 4):
Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
The decisions against Peter Crouch against Paraguay were totally ridiculous.

Let's remember, we don't know what Crouch said to the ref.

But what he may have said would have been as a result of being penalised unfairly.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 5):
Quoting David L (Reply 3):
And why was Magnin booked? He hardly touched Henry.

It's always been like this. The refs are normally much more tolerant when it comes to the famous players.

I don't agree at all. It seems to me that when someone goes down some referees feel obliged to give a foul one way or the other and some "famous" players have been on the receiving end, too. And I don't believe it's always been like that, either. You always used to get the odd dodgy referee or one who had a bad game but I think it's worse this year.

Quoting Azza40 (Reply 7):
Have over-head kicks been banned? I have already seen 3 over-head kicks being given a free kick for dangerous play! I think its a joke!

Like everyone else, I'm all for spectacular overhead kicks but sometimes it gets out of hand. Spectacular, yes; bloody dangerous, sometimes. That said, I don't recall the incidents you mentioned - I may have been out of the room.

Quoting Banco (Reply 12):
I always think it's a bit harsh when people criticise the linesmen for getting an offside decision fractionally wrong.

I completely agree. Offside isn't a big problem but I don't agree that the seemingly random decisions are due to the style of football the referee is used to. There have been so many fouls given that have left spectators wondering why and I don't mean tackles that might be allowed in some places and not in others, I mean ones where it's very difficult to see where there was any infringement.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2575 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

Italy commited a clear tackle on Ghana inside the goalie's area when the game score was 1-0, yet it wasn't called.

As of today, no Ref has had the balls to call a Penalty kick.... pathetic.

Nevertheless, refs this world cup have been 10X better than Korea/Japan.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
Italy commited a clear tackle on Ghana inside the goalie's area when the game score was 1-0, yet it wasn't called.

As of today, no Ref has had the balls to call a Penalty kick.... pathetic.

And Tim Cahill was a bit lucky against Japan. But, apart from those, there haven't been a lot of decent penalty claims. It's a bit early to say no-one has "had the balls" to award a penalty.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
Nevertheless, refs this world cup have been 10X better than Korea/Japan.

My argument does fall apart a little since I didn't see a lot of that one  . But "10x better"? Really? It was that bad last time? I'm surprised I didn't hear as many complaining about it as I have this time.

[Edited 2006-06-14 15:54:32]

User currently offlineZen100 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

The referee in the Trinidad game was from Singapore. The call he made was unfair. He was probably suffereing from nerves, still it's grossly unfair to Trinidad. And he should be sent back to Singapore.

User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

A red card just for pulling a shirt, what a bad desision Mr Swiss Referee.

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1739 times:

There you go. A penalty's been given to Spain... for what? The referee can't have seen a foul, since there wasn't one, but he guessed there must have been one.

Edit: And, of course, a red card for nothing.

 

[Edited 2006-06-14 16:08:13]

User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1739 times:

Yes, that was an absolute shocker. If we're going to see red cards and penalties for that we're going to have 15 penalties a game and three a side.  Yeah sure


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1725 times:

I guess that's a referee with too many balls.  Smile

User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1721 times:

I can't believe that decision for Spain. That's amateur refereeing and Ukraine have been hard done by.

Is there an appeals process for red cards during the World Cup?


User currently offlineYooYoo From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 6057 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1717 times:

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 22):
I can't believe that decision for Spain

i have not seen the match, but i hear it's the refs first "pro" game. He has done several U-20 world matches.

 twocents 



I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9545 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Quoting YooYoo (Reply 23):
i hear it's the refs first "pro" game. He has done several U-20 world matches.

Hmm... FIFA and UEFA have already had a disagreement about the quality of one European ref.


25 Post contains images AviationMaster : I'm not watching the game, but Referee Busacca of Switzerland has done Champions League games and is by no means a rookie. It's probably the heat
26 AirbusA346 : Didn't refs have to do English Tests to qualify to become a ref in the WC. Tom.
27 IFEMaster : Gotta say it - even without the ref's abyssmal decision(s), Spain looked very strong. They owned Ukraine; looked inventive and and aware all the time,
28 David L : It would certainly be unusual for an experienced referee to be given a World Cup match and in Europe I would think that Champions League or UEFA Cup
29 Banco : Italy or Argentina would never make it to half-time with more than four on the pitch if they start giving those.
30 AviationMaster : Another thing I noticed while watching some matches, the refs have been handing out yellow cards for smaller incidents which a player would have got b
31 Post contains images David L : Exactly. It was nothing. That was my understanding but I wasn't sure enough to say so. Unfotunately, my ex-UEFA contact has tickets for quite a few g
32 Post contains images Ezeiza : Hola Luis, agree 100%. I remember how much refs helped Korea for example, especially against Spain. I believe that ref was from Egypt? That said, we
33 TransIsland : Just like with any other footie match, there are doubtful and/or wrong calls. However, by and large the referees are doing a MUCH better job than they
34 David L : OK, I get the point that the refereeing is better than it was four years ago (as I said, I didn't get to see much of it) but that's hardly an excuse.
35 David L : Now that was a good refereeing performance - Germany v. Poland.
36 ZRH : I think the refs are much better than they were four years ago in Korea/Japan. There for example Korea never ever would have proceeded to the 1/2 fina
37 Post contains images David L : Ah, now we're getting somewhere. I know there were a few dodgy decisions in Korea's favour but that's not the same as the almost wholesale incompeten
38 Post contains images EZEIZA : I prefer an incompetent ref rather than a biased one. At least if the ref sucks, he'll make bad calls for both sides and maybe my team will get a pen
39 David L : I think I'm going to let this thread go. I didn't say I prefer one to the other. I'm saying there's more bad refereeing this time. Even if you prefer
40 Sovietjet : Anybody know why Hislop(Trinidad goalie) got a yellow card today? I missed some of the match...
41 BartiniMan : I believe it was for time wasting (?)
42 Post contains images EZEIZA : i never said you did, sorry if it came out that way. I was just giving my opinion The thing is, as much as it pisses me off more often than not, that
43 Post contains images David L : Fair enough.   Well if that's really the case, at the risk of sounding xenophobic, I guess the refs in Scotland and England really are that much bet
44 JRadier : You know what they say here in the Netherlands? We've got 16 million football coaches during the World Cup. I think the same goes for referees....
45 David L : Well, if you're happy with all the refereeing perfomances, good for you. As I said, there have been some good displays and they're what show up the b
46 YooYoo : What ever happened to the tall, bald Italian ref...sort of looks like the singer from Midnight Oil? Now he was good and had a good communications with
47 JRadier : I don't really care about the world cup, just the Dutch team. What I was saying is that judging while sitting on the couch, in a cafe or wherever is
48 Post contains images David L : I'm not comparing them to me. I'm comparing them to other referees    I do care about the World Cup.[Edited 2006-06-16 16:51:42]
49 IFEMaster : You're talking about Pierluigi Colina. Best referee ever. EASports even used him in some of their FIFA games. He retired a couple of years ago.
50 Post contains images David L : Agreed, although there were others in the same league... but apparently we're not qualified to make such comments.
51 IFEMaster : LOL. Well I never saw a poor performance or decision from that guy. He was always alert and wasn't afraid to stop the game and talk to his linesmen.
52 ZRH : No Collina had to retire because of age, FIFA has an age limit for refs. It was Anders Frisk which retired because of death threats of Chelsea "fans"
53 IFEMaster : Ah yes, thanks for correcting me. Frisk was also excellent. A sad loss to the football world on both counts.
54 TransIsland : Hmmm... while watching the match Ivory Coast vs. Holland, I am beginning to think that my statement was premature. This ref is pathetic.
55 David L : And I'm beginning to wonder if the difference is that the "weaker" referees don't want to risk FIFA penalising them for not following their ever incr
56 Post contains images Ezeiza : As already mentioned, he did not retire, he was retired by FIFA ruling. I believe though this was only fot Intl' games, and that any federation can p
57 Alias1024 : Time to revive this thread after the officiating disaster in the US-Italy match. Three red cards (one, arguably two deserved). He called so many fouls
58 David L : Though were were a lot of genuine ones. I think there were worse perfomances - Australia v. Japan (as you said), Spain v. Ukraine, Netherlands v. Ivo
59 ZRH : Sorry, but the ref in the US-Italy match was probably the best. All cards were absolutely correct. The first against Italy was a horrible elbow check
60 VH-KCT* : I disagree very much. The first red card was for an elbow to the face - definately red card material. The second red card was for a studs-up direct t
61 Newark777 : I have to say, nothing I saw in that match was anything close to brutal. Maybe overly aggressive, but that's it. Maybe brutal compared to other match
62 LTU932 : You have to remember that this isn't Hockey. Football is not as physical of a sport as Hockey is. Nothing against Hockey though, I do like it myself
63 Scbriml : Sorry, the ref got this one just about right. A deliberate elbow to the face, 5yds from the ref. Red card 10/10. A diving double-footed tackle to the
64 Scbriml : A deliberate elbow to an opponent's face? A double-footed, diving, studs-up tackle to an opponent's ankle? Both those events were brutal and should h
65 Post contains images AviationMaster : I agree that it's a physical sport and that you should let them play, but you also have to draw the line somewhere. What's the point of letting them
66 N1120A : Are you two nuts? First, Mastroeni's tackle was from the side, not behind. Second, he got all ball first before the Italian attacker's momentum broug
67 Banco : He ended up retiring from refereeing domestic matches in Italy after the Italian FA took exception to him doing advertisements for Opel, in the light
68 Scbriml : Coming in from the side is only marginally less unacceptable than from behind. I think you'll find the Italian player flicked the ball away before Ma
69 Post contains images EZEIZA : What??? It's good to know that you are not a ref in the World Cup if not there would be a thread on you Again ... what??? Mastroeni made a brutal tac
70 Newark777 : It is a sad state when an elbow to the face can cause a team to play a man down the rest of the match, and essentially suspend the player for a game,
71 Post contains images AviationMaster : Did you watch the game?
72 VH-KCT* : I'll direct you to Scbriml's excellent post, but I'll also add that that kind of attack could lead to broken ankles. I'd also reiterate that the ref'
73 Newark777 : Yes. Harry
74 Alias1024 : He seemed to have a tough time figuring out that line. For the first 70 minutes he blew the whistle whenever two players came into contact, and then
75 Post contains images Scbriml :   It wasn't an accident. Anyone (with one possible exception) saw it for what it was - a deliberate action to injure an opponent. Have you been foll
76 Post contains images David L : Spot on. Stone-waller, especially as the players knew the refs had been told not to tolerate lunging tackles. Yeah, let's just have a free for all. K
77 Post contains images N1120A : There was nothing brutal about it. He was playing the ball, only he was a bit late. That kind of tackle has been getting yellow cards and even warnin
78 VH-KCT* : He didn't make contact with the ball, he made contact with the ankle. His intention is neither here nor there when his actions result such potentiall
79 N1120A : Look again. He made contact with the ball then the calf No. More than anything, I think the EU commentators still have a hard time believing the US c
80 ZRH : This is ridiculous. All commentators had the same opinion that the ref in this match was good (on both sides). This had nothing to do with the US tea
81 VH-KCT* : Well said, ZRH. To suggest that the informed and experienced football pundits selected to host world cup broadcasts are somehow unable to rise above
82 Post contains images David L : The UK commentators were full of praise for the way the USA played - just not for those two tackles. It's a complete myth that contacting the ball fi
83 Post contains images EZEIZA : I agree that Pope had no intention in commiting the foul, but he did. As you say, he missed his timing resulting in a foul from behind. That, in foot
84 Post contains images EZEIZA : This is what I mean by "plancha". The position of the foot is the same as Mastroeni's. That's why he got the red card. In these kind of fouls Intentio
85 Post contains images EZEIZA : Hey, I even said you can't really blame the guy because we are talknig about 20 cm. at most. I did not even complain about it! dunno why you brought
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