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Over 20,000 Hotel Rooms Planned/Being Built In LAS  
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4435 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1944 times:
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The five-year, $20 billion building boom under way on the Strip will roughly double the high-end inventory of rooms costing $200 a night or more, a new Standard & Poor's study said.

This newfound focus on upscale visitors is largely a response to continuing demographic shifts, the report said.

But it will leave Las Vegas vulnerable to the throes of the national economy and could prove challenging to absorb.

Projects that S&P said probably would be completed include:

• The $1.8 billion Palazzo with 3,025 rooms.

• The $1.7 billion Encore at Wynn Las Vegas with 2,054 rooms.

• The $7 billion Project CityCenter with 7,700 rooms.

• The $4 billion Echelon Place with 3,300 rooms.

Projects whose fates S&P called uncertain include:

• The $2 billion Cosmopolitan with 3,000 rooms.

• The $1.5 billion Fontainebleau with 4,000 rooms.

• The canceled $3 billion Las Ramblas with 1,225 rooms.

• The $1.7 billion W Las Vegas with 3,000 rooms.

Las Ramblas was sold to Edge Resorts for $202 million earlier this month.

Together, those projects represent a 30 percent increase in room inventory, gaming space, convention space and retail space.

"A key factor (in deciding which proceed) will be the capital markets' willingness to fund many of these projects, particularly single-site developments pursued by less established gaming industry investors," according to the S&P report.

The expansion mainly will be in the high-end segment of the market, which at the end of 2005 accounted for about 15,000 of the 75,000 total rooms on the Strip.

If some of the more speculative projects fail to materialize, S&P said that would still mean an 80 percent increase in the Strip inventory charging $200 a night or more. If all materialize, a 150 percent increase in the upscale room inventory on the Strip would result.

"While the current positive operating momentum on the market will likely continue to increase demand for higher-end hotel rooms in the near term, the state of the (national) economy will be a major determining factor relative to absorption," S&P analyst Michael Scerbo said in the report.

He said the gradually changing characteristics of the average Las Vegas visitor are driving the transformation of the Strip into a ritzy resort destination. The report found the average Las Vegas visitor is wealthier, younger and spends more on each trip, both on gaming and amenities.

"This is evidenced by the higher-end properties on the Strip, such as Bellagio, Venetian and Mandalay Bay, that have consistently been some of the best performers in the market," Scerbo said.

Deutsche Bank analyst Andrew Zarnett said all such developments start with customer demand. The leisure and business markets are demanding more luxury capacity in Las Vegas and are willing to pay "that price point."

"The Venetian, Bellagio and Caesars' new tower all proved the point. There is sufficient demand for existing capacity and a lot more. And then Wynn Las Vegas showed the market is willing to pay still higher prices, around $300 a room," Zarnett said.



Full article available here: http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../Jun-15-Thu-2006/news/7941355.html


This will have a direct impact on the airport as well, for every hotel room that is built in the valley it adds an additional 315 passengers a year using the airport. The airport is already nearing capacity, and with that many additional rooms the airport simply will not be able to handle all the new traffic and passengers. I can't stress how much the new airport needs to be started on now.

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1934 times:

Yeah, flying out of there on Sunday BLOWS!

But the good news is... 20,000 more rooms for me and my gang to trash!


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

Damn, room prices are getting ridiculous. Oh well, as long as Jean and Primm still offer good fares, one can always stay there and then go to Vegas  Wink . Bet by the next time I'm there (whenever that will be), I'll probably not recognize the city at all anymore.

User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

As with any airport nearing capacity the response should be to fly bigger aircraft. For example I flew there last month on AA from ORD-LAS and we flew a MD-80 which was full. If demand continues to rise I can see AA using a 757 on the route instead.

An the other topic I find it interesting that so many people are willing to spend $200-$300 for a room. When I go to Vegas I spend about 4-5 hrs a night sleeping in the room, take a shower, and maybe relax in there for about an hour during the day, so I usually go for the much cheaper places like Stratosphere or Excalibur.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13202 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

A certain saturation point has to be reached soon - very soon. Las Vegas has limited water supplies, a lack of cheap housing for the huge numbers of low income service workers (maids, janitors, floor workers), competition in many areas of the USA (especially casinos on Indian Reservations) and that not everybody want's to gamble or face it's temptations. To me Vegas has been in an up cycle that that is reaching it's peak or may have over the peak and will go down to a more natural level. If the economy levels out or dips soon, or if another 9/11 or higher interest rates due to our huge national debt then you could see a lot of backing off of many of these plans.

User currently offlineFrontiercpt From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 973 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2):
'll probably not recognize the city at all anymore.

Heck, I head off to school for three months and when my mom picks me up at the airport, the place has changed a lot in only three months! There is usually a new casino being built near my house, or at least some new building. When we moved here in 1996, our house was on the outskirts of town, but now we are nowhere near the edge of town lol.

~Sean


User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
A certain saturation point has to be reached soon - very soon

Not only that, but a saturation point has to be reached soon on the "level" of which these hotels are being built. The Wynn, itself, while making money, has been said it isn't making "enough" as it is now.

So what is the solution?

Let's blow up everything and build them even bigger, better, and with a higher price tag.

Great.


There is talk that the Harrahs/Imperial Palace strip will be imploded and a mini city will be built in its place. Not just a hotel, casino, convention center, theater, condo complex, but...grocery stores, movie theaters, schools, gas stations, etc. etc.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting Stlgph (Reply 6):
There is talk that the Harrahs/Imperial Palace strip will be imploded and a mini city will be built in its place. Not just a hotel, casino, convention center, theater, condo complex, but...grocery stores, movie theaters, schools, gas stations, etc. etc.

Harrah's is supposed to announce some time this summer in regards to plans for that area. Here's my theory on what's going to happen on the Strip from Harrah's to Bally's:

The I.P. is imploded to build additions to Harrah's and the Flamingo (On a side note, O'Sheas is closing in the near future, to be replaced by a tattoo shop owned by Vince Neal of Motley Crue infamy). Once these additions are complete, the other towers at the two casinos will either be imploded or heavily renovated. Also look to the Barbary Coast purchased as well, either through a straight buyout or asset swap, or Harrah's buys out Boyd Gaming.

Bally's will be rebranded into a Horseshoe and will eventually imploded.

Condomania in Vegas is over. If the project isn't in the building stage right now, it's not going to be built. Some of these sights will be resold and new casinos will be built on them. One such site is the former Westward Ho site, where the condo project there was scrapped. My money is on MGM-Mirage picking up the parcel for a future redevelopment of the Circus Circus property.

Quoting Iowaman (Thread starter):

� The $1.5 billion Fontainebleau with 4,000 rooms.

I still think that Turnberry may end up putting condo towers on that site (Turnberry seems to be one of the few builders who's not feeling the effects of the condo bust too much).

Quoting Iowaman (Thread starter):
Together, those projects represent a 30 percent increase in room inventory, gaming space, convention space and retail space.

Between 2008-2010, approximately 15,000 rooms in Vegas will be offline due to the various projects coming down the pipeline. Considering that there are around 125,000 rooms in Vegas, that's a sizable chunk, as if it wasn't for some of these new towers, the number of rooms unavailable would be closer to 20,000 or more during that period.

Here's an interesting article detailing the drop in available rooms over the next 3-5 years in Vegas:
http://www.vegastripping.com/features/feature.php?feature_id=81&page=1


With the way all of these projects are going, it's hard to keep up. I discovered a site that does a pretty good job of keeping up with all of the projects.
Vegas Today and Tomorrow


User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):
One such site is the former Westward Ho site, where the condo project there was scrapped.

and that still entirely saddens me. that was one of the happiest places in the whole damn world.

and now they're replacing the Stardust with something that i think will be a big colassal financial flop down the road.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):

With the way all of these projects are going, it's hard to keep up. I discovered a site that does a pretty good job of keeping up with all of the projects.
Vegas Today and Tomorrow

the coke or pepsi map is hilarious.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):
Bally's will be rebranded into a Horseshoe and will eventually imploded.

Bally's is an interesting property. the way it stands now with the property, the only thing they could really feasibly rebuild is........Bally's!

an implosion there would be interesting given its close proximity to the Paris Las Vegas hotel and casino.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 3):
If demand continues to rise I can see AA using a 757 on the route instead.

AA flies a mix of 757s and MD80s on both the LAS-ORD and LAS-DFW routes, with 757s also going to MIA, STL, and JFK.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
Las Vegas has limited water supplies, a lack of cheap housing for the huge numbers of low income service workers (maids, janitors, floor workers), competition in many areas of the USA (especially casinos on Indian Reservations) and that not everybody want's to gamble or face it's temptations.

Many of the apartments have been converted to condos too, making affordable residences even that harder to come by. The economy of Vegas is unlike any other city's. Things that work here don't work in other cities and things that work other places don't work here.

As for the gambling competition factor, I'm not worried about that. I've gambled in indian casinos before and was in Atlantic City last weekend, and Vegas is still the classiest place in America. You definitely get the most entertainment for your dollar here than any other city.


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 3):
If demand continues to rise I can see AA using a 757 on the route instead.

CO uses 753's and almost always fills them up. It's getting a lot harder to non rev in an out of LAS at anytime of the week. When we were all out there in March, I ended up buying a zonal on another carrier to get out of town and make a connection back to IAH. That was a first since the redeyes almost always had seats for all the non revs.

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 3):
so I usually go for the much cheaper places like Stratosphere or Excalibur.

It's the Trop for me from now on. Or until they blow it up.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):
On a side note, O'Sheas is closing in the near future,

Then I'll have to hurry out there and try and recoup my losses from the last trip.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):
the few builders who's not feeling the effects of the condo bust too much).

I wish you'd tell me more about that. My wife has been talking for over a year now about buying a condo out there for our retirement. What is causing the ones on the strip to go bust? We also looked in the Destin FL area and those puppies are way out of our range.

You can still get a decent room at the Wynn during the week. My dad was a long time customer of the old Desert Inn and we still get offers from Wynn in the mail in his name that are pretty darn hard to pass up.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 10):
I wish you'd tell me more about that. My wife has been talking for over a year now about buying a condo out there for our retirement. What is causing the ones on the strip to go bust?

Turnberry was one of the first (and is the main player in the condo scene in Vegas) of the big condo tower builders on the Strip with their Turnberry Place project at the corner of Paradise and Riveria. They sold the towers out pretty quickly and really ignited the condo boom. Pretty much every little tiny parcel anywhere close to the Strip was being bought up with plans to build condo towers. What also helped get things moving was Donald Trump, whose Trump International Hotel & Tower is pretty close to being 100% sold as well. The Donald's ex-wife Ivana, was involved with a now cancelled project (cleverly titled The Ivana).


The Vegas Today And Tomorrow website I mentioned earlier has a very good section on the projects either proposed, under construction, completed, or cancelled (under the "Dreams" section).
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/condomap.htm

Many of the "?" on the map are cancelled condo projects.

Part of the reason of the bust is the old law of supply and demand. So many condo projects went on sale at the same time that there were too many units available to buy and not enough buyers. Some of these projects (like the recently cancelled Las Ramblas) were to be a mix of condos, hotels and casino, some were to be all residental. What is interesting is that some of the sites of these cancelled projects are now being proposed as new hotel sites, which may in the future cause a glut in rooms, even though most these hotels would be non-gaming properties (ala the Westin Casuarina).

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 10):
We also looked in the Destin FL area and those puppies are way out of our range.

Interesting that you bring up the "Redneck Riveria". The condo boom and bust along the stretch of coastline from Panama City Beach to Ft. Walton Beach mirrors the boom and bust in Vegas (especially in the P.C.B. area). Many of the old motels and hotels (most of them built in the 1960s) were bought up by developers who planned on building condo towers (much like in Vegas). Quite a few projects have been completed, but many others have been cancelled. Some folks bought into some of the early projects and flipped them for a nice profit, sank that money into one of the new projects and some have been stuck with a condo nobody wants.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4435 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1735 times:
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Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):
With the way all of these projects are going, it's hard to keep up. I discovered a site that does a pretty good job of keeping up with all of the projects.
Vegas Today and Tomorrow



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):
The Vegas Today And Tomorrow website I mentioned earlier has a very good section on the projects either proposed, under construction, completed, or cancelled (under the "Dreams" section).
http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com...p.htm


That's a really cool site, thanks for the link.


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