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Circumcision Case Goes To Court  
User currently offlineAC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 41
Posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

CARLA K. JOHNSON



CHICAGO (AP) - Groups opposed to circumcision are watching the case of an eight-year-old suburban Chicago boy whose divorced parents are fighting in court over whether he should have the procedure.

The child's mother wants him circumcised to prevent recurring, painful inflammation she says he's experienced during the past year. But the father says the boy is healthy and circumcision, which removes the foreskin of the penis, is an unnecessary medical procedure that could cause him long-term physical and psychological harm.

more at http://www.cbc.ca/cp/health/060615/x061514.html

I would say that if the child is in pain then have the circumcision. IF it can be treated via medicine and have no pain at all then that should be the simple course of action, however the child should have a say in what he wants done.

Your thoughts on this matter?


Member since April 2000
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAH777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 0 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2045 times:

I convinced a colleague of mine to get his twig pruned at age 30. He said it was the best decision he'd made in years. Now he's pounding ugly chicks left and right. Who knew a circumcision and a lobotomy were the same procedure?

User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

The kid has balanitis and balanoposthitis. I've been told it feels like broken glass under the foreskin.

Mark


User currently offlineAC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 41
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

The add goes on and says how the rate of circumcision in the USA is 60% of males are circumsized and that has come down 10% since the 80s, it was on the TV today too, and the rate in Canada is only now around 12%. More and more people are opting out of doing this, and I know now here in Canada it costs about $250 to have it done, when it use to be free of charge.


Member since April 2000
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1828 times:

Is it true the Court has cut off further arguments in this case ?  Yeah sure  Wow!  Confused


gene
User currently offlineFutureSDPDcop From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1293 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1797 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 5):
Is it true the Court has cut off further arguments in this case ?

lmao! Nice pun.


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2325 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

I have heard about this case, I mean the kid is in pain, the father is like: Oh nobody shall butcher my son's penis  Yeah sure

Think it is astounding what some people can pull off in the name of self rightiousness!

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2325 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

Quoting AC777LR (Reply 3):
The add goes on and says how the rate of circumcision in the USA is 60% of males are circumsized and that has come down 10% since the 80s, it was on the TV today too, and the rate in Canada is only now around 12%. More and more people are opting out of doing this, and I know now here in Canada it costs about $250 to have it done, when it use to be free of charge.

Let me guess this is a good thing according to you no?

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1775 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 4):
Is it true the Court has cut off further arguments in this case ?

I was going to say that they all took time off to consume some soft drinks and deliberate. The judge asked for a can of Slice.

ba-da-bing! ba-da-boom!


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1770 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 2):
The kid has balanitis and balanoposthitis. I've been told it feels like broken glass under the foreskin.

Yikes. What a crap father.

Quoting Windshear (Reply 7):
Let me guess this is a good thing according to you no?

Did you read his initial post? He is on the side of circumcision



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1764 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 4):
Is it true the Court has cut off further arguments in this case ?

Despite arguments from the kid's lawyer who works for tips.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

So, I guess the kid is going to get the short end of the stick.

User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

Interesting how female circumcision is discouraged by the WHO as an 'unnecessary and cruel act' while male circumcision, which has no known medical benefits that have been proven, is not discouraged.

Its barbaric and a permanent mutilation of someone that has not made the decision for themselves, if done to a child (99% of cases). You wouldnt cut off a childs ear, leave his forskin alone!

The common arguements for circumcision is that it decreases the risk of infection - well so does washing for crying out loud!

By circumcising a child, you have changed a significant part of his life without his informed sayso.


User currently offlineAC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 41
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

Quoting Windshear (Reply 7):
Let me guess this is a good thing according to you no?

Boaz.

No I dont want you to guess anything about me. Just read the article!!! sorry its in English!!!!!



Member since April 2000
User currently offlineEasternSon From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 667 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

Somebody start an a.net poll--

Helmet or Anteater? Please no self-pics.



"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
User currently offline808TWA From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 701 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Personally I'm against the procedure, unless it's for medical reasons. This is medical, therefore chop it and save the kid the embarrasment of the world knowing he has a problem with his pecker....and of course the kid having any more discomfort from the disease.


Love is in the air, so practice safe flying
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 12):
Interesting how female circumcision is discouraged by the WHO as an 'unnecessary and cruel act' while male circumcision, which has no known medical benefits that have been proven, is not discouraged.

Female "circumcision", which is more properly called Female Genital Mutilation, is not at all the equivilant of male circumcision. Male circumcision involves removing only the foreskin. FGM removes the female equivilant of the penis. Yes, the clitoris is developed from the exact same tissue as the penis and serves the same purposes in the recreational aspects of sex. In fact, some women have the skin over the clitoris removed or cut back if it is interfering with their sexual pleasure. They are completely different things.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 12):
The common arguements for circumcision is that it decreases the risk of infection - well so does washing for crying out loud!

Most infections in the developed world are not caused by a lack of washing, rather internal issues. Further, penile cancer is almost exclusively occurant in uncircumsized me.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

Yep, and when you've collected 365 foreskins, you can put them together and call it a GoodYear ....  Big grin


Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1699 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 12):
Interesting how female circumcision is discouraged by the WHO as an 'unnecessary and cruel act' while male circumcision, which has no known medical benefits that have been proven, is not discouraged.

From Wiki:

Non-circumcised boys and men tend to have higher rates of various infections and inflammations of the penis, and of the foreskin, than circumcised men.[54] The reasons are unclear, but several hypotheses have been suggested:

The foreskin may harbor bacteria and infect if it is not cleaned enough.[55]
The foreskin may become inflamed if it is cleaned too often with soap.[56]
The forcible retraction of the foreskin in boys can lead to infections.[57]
There are less invasive treatments than circumcision for posthitis (an inflamed foreskin) [58] and balanitis (inflammation of the glans) [59][60][61]. However, these are not as successful in treating balanitis xerotica obliterans (BXO) [62] [63] [64], which is harder to treat [65] [66].

Lichen sclerosus et atrophicus (LSA) produces a whitish-yellowish patch on the skin, and is not believed to be always harmful or painful, and may sometimes disappear without intervention. Some consider balanitis xerotica obliterans to be a form of LSA that happens to be on the foreskin, where it may cause pathological phimosis. Circumcision is believed to reliably reduce the threat of BXO. [67]


User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 12):
By circumcising a child, you have changed a significant part of his life without his informed sayso.

Gee ! I never thought of that. Hmm... Perhaps I should have gotten my daughter's permission before the doctor was allowed to perform an emergency tracheotomy. And nobody asked ME whether I wanted my tonsils clipped,and (snurf !) the doctors set my son's broken leg without first asking him if he wouldn't rather be known as "Gimpy"...

Is that what things have some to in "Old Blighty" ? You have to ask your children for permission to be parents,now ?



gene
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Most infections in the developed world are not caused by a lack of washing, rather internal issues. Further, penile cancer is almost exclusively occurant in uncircumsized me.

Really. Fair number of studies disagree with you:

Quote:

1. Frisch M, Friss S, Kjaer SK, Melbye M. Falling incidence of penis cancer in an uncircumcised population (Denmark 1943-90) BMJ 1995;311:1471.
2. Wade TR, Kopf AW, Ackerman AB. Bowenoid papulosis of the penis. Cancer. Cancer 1978; 42:1890-903.
3. Holly EA, Palefsky JM. Factors related to risk of penile cancer, new evidence from a study in the Pacific Northwest. J Natl Cancer Inst 1993; 85:2-4.
4. Bissada NK. Post-circumcision carcinoma of the penis. I. Clinical aspects. J Urol 1986; 135:283-5.
5. Bissada NK. Post-circumcision carcinoma of the penis: II. Surgical management. J. Surg Oncol 1988; 37:80-3.
6. Rogus BJ. Squamous cell carcinoma in a young circumcised man. J Urol 1987; 138:861-2.
7. Boczko S, Freed S. Penile carcinoma in circumcised males. N Y State J Med 1979; 79:1903-4.
8. Lelter E, Lefovitis AM. Circumcision and penile carcinoma. N Y State J Med 1975; 75:1520-2.
9. Onuigbo WL. Carcinoma of skin of penis. Br J Urol 1985; 57:465-6.
10. Korczak D. Siegel Y, Lindner A. Verrucous carcinoma of the penis [in Hebrew], Harefuah 1989; 117:436-7.
11. Girgis AS, Bergman H, Rosenthal H, Solomon L. Unusual penile malignancies in circumcised Jewish men. J Urol 1973; 110:696-702.
12. Boon ME; Susant I, Tasche MJ, Kok LP. Human papillomavirus (HPV)-associated male and female carcinomas in a Hindu population. The male as vector and victim.Cancer 1989; 64:559-65.

All say that theres no discernable difference in penile cancer rates between circumcised and noncircumcised men and that since WW2 the rates of penile cancer has overall dropped in the general populous.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):
From Wiki:

From the British Medical Association:

Quote:

The British Association of Paediatric Surgeons advises that there is rarely a clinical indication for circumcision.

...

The medical benefits previously claimed, however, have not been convincingly proven, and it is now widely accepted, including by the BMA, that this surgical procedure has medical and psychological risks

...

Doctors should ensure that any parents seeking circumcision for their son in the belief that it confers health benefits are fully informed of the lack of consensus amongst the profession over such benefits, and how great any potential benefits and harms are.

Source: BMA - Laws and Ethics of male circumcision

When a world class medical association casts doubts, I tend to listen.

Lets call this what it is - amputation. You dont cut off your ear because it solves ear infections.


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2325 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1682 times:

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 14):
Helmet or Anteater? Please no self-pics.



Wow never heard that one before! Cheesus!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Did you read his initial post? He is on the side of circumcision

Yes I did, and I am sorry if I connected the wrong dots, but I was under the impression that he was against circumcision...

But I guess Alireza that we can agree on one issue after all  Smile

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 20):
Lets call this what it is - amputation. You dont cut off your ear because it solves ear infections.

Listen this I have heard so many times here in Europe, Europe is against circumcision, this attitude dates all the way back to ancient Greece and Rome...

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineJetflyer From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

Poor hygiene is to blame for his silly problems, plenty of people, including me are uncircumcised and have no trouble keeping it clean and uninfected for gods sake. He's a silly boy with bad habits, probably doesn't wash or brush his teeth or change his underpants.

Sorry to be harsh but it's as simple as that. He should take care of his body like other people have to and the fact that this has to go to court is ridiculous.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12202 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1635 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I like to compare it to abortion. People are against abortion because the fetus doesn't get to choose to live. Circumsizing little babies takes away the choice of them having an unaltered penis.

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 19):
Gee ! I never thought of that. Hmm... Perhaps I should have gotten my daughter's permission before the doctor was allowed to perform an emergency tracheotomy. And nobody asked ME whether I wanted my tonsils clipped,and (snurf !) the doctors set my son's broken leg without first asking him if he wouldn't rather be known as "Gimpy"...

Those are all medical procedures, and they have a purpose. Find me a purpose of circumcision.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 19):

Is that what things have some to in "Old Blighty" ? You have to ask your children for permission to be parents,now ?

Parents dont mutilate their children. This is a life altering major change to the physical look and function of a mans penis with very unclear and disputed medical benefits, and you are saying that parents should get to make that choice before the child can even have an informed opinion on the matter?

Think about this - would you give your child a tattoo of their home address and telephone number? After all, the benefits of such a tattoo are more apparent for a lost child than circumcision is for medical reasons, and its just as permanent for the kid in either case.

How about cosmetic surgery? Face lift? Nose job?

Would you really make physical alterations to your child that will affect them for the rest of their life without giving them the choice?


25 Pyrex : Thank you for providing one example of a surgery that used to be done as routine to all children and has since evolved to a medical practice made onl
26 A340600 : I don't get why some parents are so keen to have a natural birth only for the child to be carried away, strapped down in some cases and mutilated, abs
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