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Kurdistan? No, It's Called Northern Iraq...  
User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1734 times:

http://www.aina.org/guesteds/20060522114735.htm

This is an interesting read. These four points sum up alot of the aggravation the Assyrians feel in Iraq:

1-Since the eighteenth century, the Assyrians have suffered the most at the hands of the Kurds.
2-The origin of the Kurds is ambiguous.
3-The Kurds are not the indigenous people of northern Iraq (Assyria).
4-There never existed a real country, state, or kingdom called Kurdistan

And these are interesting points. Kurdish history is at best ambiguous, there has never been a great Kurdish civilization like the Assyrians have had, the Arabs, etc...so why then do people insist on injustly calling the land Kurdistan? ...kind of reminds me of how the colonial powers divided the world ... according to their own desire with little consideration of the local indigenous populations!


Proud to be an Assyrian!
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1724 times:

Quoting Marco (Thread starter):
kind of reminds me of how the colonial powers divided the world ... according to their own desire with little consideration of the local indigenous populations!

and history comes back to bite, decades or even centuries later. There was a tv program over here last night that covered this; mostly with respect to what happened before and after the first world war.

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/t-z/warworld.html



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

Quoting Marco (Thread starter):
Kurdistan?

well, whatever, if looking up matters under www.krg.org it becomes obvious to me that they, after having received military training from the USA, will secede at the earliest opportunity. I regret to say that your folks most likely will be among those to suffer most from such a development, not to speak of the effects of such developments upon Kurdish-dominated areas of Turkey and Iran.


User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1671 times:

Support TURKEY and its fight against Kurd terrorists!  yell 

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1663 times:

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 3):
Kurd terrorists!

I would NOT see THE Kurds in Turkey and elsewhere as "terrorists" in such a general way. To see the following network of defacto-embassies on the WEBsite of the Kurdish "Regional" Government however leads me the conclusion that just to have some autonomy "up-north" is NOT really what they are looking for :
-
* KRG Representation in CIS countries
Moscow, Russian Federation
Phone: +7(095)248 44 50
Fax: +7(095)248 44 50
Email: rus(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Representation in United Arab Emirates
Phone: +971-50-427-1641
Fax: +971-6-531-4005
Email: uae(at)rp.krg.org

Europe

* KRG Representation in Austria
Vertretung der Regionalregierung Kurdistan-Irak in Österreich
P.O. Box 49
A-1011 Vienna, Austria
Phone: +43 664 34 50 465
Fax: +43 1 544 03 05
Email: austria(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Mission to the European Union
rue de la loi 221
1040 Brussels
BELGIUM
Phone: +32-2-513 72 28
Fax: +32-2-513 36 79
Email: eu(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Representation in France
Phone: +33 1 42 65 18 45
Fax: +33 1 42 65 18 46
Email: france(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Representation in Germany
Vertretung der Regionalregierung-Kurdistan Irak in Deutschland
P.O. Box 150 101
D-10633 Berlin, Germany
Phone: +49 30 7974 8491
Fax: +49 30 7974 8492
Email: germany(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Representation in the Nordic Countries
Box 7127
SE-170 07 Solna
Sweden
Phone: +46 8 442 0505
Fax: +46 8 442 0905
Email: nordic(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Representation in Switzerland
Dr. Fauzi Kaddur
Postfach 113
CH-9012 St.Gallen
Switzerland
Phone: +41 71 333 31 55
Fax: +41 71 333 30 29
Mobile: 0+41 79 601 35 55
Email: switzerland(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Representation in Poland
Rynek Glówny 39/8
31-013 Kraków
Poland
Phone: +48 12 429-11-93
Fax: +48 12 429-11-93
Email: poland(at)rp.krg.org


* KRG Representation in the United Kingdom
Winchester House, 8th Floor
259-269 Old Marylebone Road
London NW1 5RA
Phone: +44 (0)20 7170 4300
Fax: +44 (0)20 7170 4301
Email: uk(at)krg.org
It is necessary to make an appointment before visiting the UK office. For administrative matters, appointments can be made on Mondays or Thursdays from 11.00 to 16.00 GMT.

N.America

* KRG Representation to the USA, Canada & the UN
1420 Spring Hill Road, Suite 600
Mclean, Virginia 22102, USA
Phone: 703 442 5314
Fax: 703 442 5316
Email: us(at)rp.krg.org
Nijyar H. Shemdin, U.S. Representative of Kurdistan Regional Government, is registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act on behalf of Kurdistan Regional Government, Erbil. Additional information concerning the registration is on file at the U.S. Department of Justice, Washington, D.C..

Oceania

* KRG Representation in Australia
P O Box 491 Liverpool
NSW 2170 Sydney
Australia
Phone: 612 98 22 22 72
Fax: 612 98 22 22 76
Email: australia(at)rp.krg.org

------------------------------------------------------------------
all taken from www.krg.org
-


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1644 times:

Bofredrik,

I never said support Turkey and never called the Kurds in Turkey terrorists. Apparently, the whole point of this article flew right over your head. The point is Kurds are originally from the mountains of Turkey/Iran and have an ambiguous historical claim over northern Iraq. The only reason why the USA is giving them northern Iraq is because Iraq has become the new puppet of the USA. Imagine what would happen if the USA demanded Turkey to give them independance...yeah right



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

Quoting Marco (Reply 5):
reason why the USA is giving them northern Iraq is because Iraq has become the new puppet of the USA. Imagine what would happen if the USA demanded Turkey to give them independance...yeah right

while NOT claiming to be a clairvoyant, I expect the USA one day to regret their support for the Kurds !


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2373 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 4):
I would NOT see THE Kurds...



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 4):
is NOT really what they are looking for



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
while NOT claiming to be a clairvoyant...

WHY are YOU writing with CAPITAL letters? It is very ANNOYING


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

I totally agree with you...cough taliban cough...


Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17330 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
while NOT claiming to be a clairvoyant, I expect the USA one day to regret their support for the Kurds !

They've been the most stable throughout the entire Saddam/Iraq mess; they've even prospered compared to the other regions...it could work out just fine.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBofredrik From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1593 times:

ANC was not terrorists, PKK is not (?) terrorists but Al Qaida is terrorists. It is not easy to understand who is what... I only know that PKK have murdered many Turkish military, policemen and civilians. And they still put bombs that hurt civilians in Turkey today.

User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
while NOT claiming to be a clairvoyant, I expect the USA one day to regret their support for the Kurds !

Why? If the Kurds do form their own country, it will likely be a Democracy, very friendly to the US, probably prosperous...


User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Bofredrik,

Perhaps you need to take a break, read the article then start posting. Frankly I don't care about the PKK in Turkey. We're talking about Kurds in Iraq. If you still insist on posting about Turkey and ignoring my explanation feel free to start another thread.

Maverick,

They've been the most stable throughout the entire Saddam/Iraq mess; they've even prospered compared to the other regions...it could work out just fine.

Most stable? A people that has several militias running around making sure only their parties get votes is not my idea of stable. Around 200,000 Assyrian votes were not taken because Kurdish militias surrounded Assyrian towns in the last elections. The Kurd's "homeland" is not northern Iraq, and yet they are very ready to split the country. That's not justice or democracy. That's the US meddling with something it knows nothing about and at the same time creating a problem for itself in the future.



Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
They've been the most stable throughout the entire Saddam/Iraq mess; they've even prospered compared to the other regions...it could work out just fine.

---

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
Why? If the Kurds do form their own country, it will likely be a Democracy, very friendly to the US, probably prosperous...

-
I have no doubts about the ability of the Kurds to establish a working country, maybe even a democracy. The US-American in the longer term will be that the USA within NATO is allied with Turkey, and Turkey regards the MustafaKemal-VonDerGoltz-line (southeastern borderline) as untouchable and beyond compromise. An independent Kurdistan in NorthernIraq of course will however bring the Kurds inside Turkey into wishing to join.

Quoting Marco (Reply 12):
The Kurd's "homeland" is not northern Iraq, and yet they are very ready to split the country. That's not justice or democracy. That's

You may be right in longer-term history, BUT what is Northern Iraq now already in later times of the Ottoman Empire was a Kurdish area, or at least regarded as a Kurdish area.


User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

I'm sorry, replace Kurds here with Palestinians and what do we get?

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 14):
replace Kurds here with Palestinians and what do we get?

you point to existing similarities, the differences however are tremendous. The longer term problem in case of the Kurdish matter is that their areas are BOTH in Iraq and heavily inside of NATO-partner Turkey, and to a minor extent even in Iran. Another aspect is, and that is what "Marco" tries desperately to bring home, that there are minorities and minorities WITHIN minorities. And, just as elsewhere, "locations" and relative strength of ethnic groups shift in the longer term.


User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 938 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Hi everyone..


I think you guys don't know about the situation in Tukey.

First of all Turkish and Kurdish people live together Ýn Turkey without any problems. They have the same rights, there is no classification about people's nationalities. There are also Kurdish Politicians in our Government.

But, there is a big problem in the east part of Turkey. It is mostly because of unemployment and bad incomes of people. Also unfortunately the education level of the people are very low. Due to these problems, people from east part of Turkey are immigrating to big cities located in the west part of the country.
Mostly Kurdish people live in this zone, east of Turkey. They don't have education, job and money. But they have minimum 5-6 children. Day by day this population is growing. The situation is going worse and worse.
You can easily deceive these people. They have nothing to loose. Unfortunately the heads of the terrorists do this. They cheat these poor and ignorant people with lies like free Kurdistan. They give them guns, rifles, bombs. As a result they kill innocent people, babies, women.... They don't know why they are doing.. The reality goes on like this...


For me the real problem is; in other countries, especially in European countries, the people think that "the Kurdish people are under pressure, they don't have any right, Turkish people hate Kurdish people". It is a big LIE. They have to come and see first and then they must make comments.
I know that especially Switzerland give staying and working permit to people who says "I am Kurdish, and in Turkey I am under pressure because of being Kurdish, I don't have any right like Turkish people".

It is very clear that some countries are trying to make some politics over Kurdish people.

Finally I am repeating again, the Kurdish and Turkish people have no problems, they have the same rights. If a person says "I am Kurdish and because of this I am not freely doing anything" don't believe them. Their target is different.

Thnx for reading.
Best regards


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 16):
Turkish and Kurdish people live together Ýn Turkey without any problems

why not. The question rather is what the Turkish GOVERNMENT will do and say when Turkish Kurds might want to join an independent Kurdistan.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 16):
lies like free Kurdistan.

"lies like free Kurdistan" ? what lies ? you write as if the possibility of an independent Kurdistan on territories at present part of Iraq and Turkey is a lie

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 16):
Kurdish people

you mention Switzerland. well, a question to you: ever heard about Mr Karl May (Kara Ben-Nemsi) ? you know what I am talking about ?


User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 938 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

ME AVN FAN

If some people come and tell you,"give us some land from your country, we will make a new country" will you accept this?

Turkey will never give even 1 squaremeter of its land to anyone. OK?
It is very clear. Noone can take land from us. There is no possibility of free Kurdistan on Turkish territory.

Go and take a map of Turkey. Check the borders. These borders will never change. There are some stupid maps showing east part of Turkey as Kurdistan. It is no true !

What do you mean by Turkish Kurds? are there types of Kurds like American Kurds, English Kurds? What are you talking about?

There can be free Kurdistan in Switzerland. I guess you will be very happy to give land from your country to them. I advise you to go and live with them, if you like them so much.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
f some people come and tell you,"give us some land from your country, we will make a new country" will you accept this?

People in the Jura-region, formerly part of the Canton of Berne, in the 70ies and 80ies demanded their own canton. The Canton of Jura now is one of the Swiss cantons with its own parliament and with its own government, taking taxes from its inhabitants and maintaining its own police force. They were given, after a popular vote in the contested areas, all those areas who voted in favour of a separate canton.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
Turkey will never give even 1 squaremeter of its land to anyone. OK?

The land in question, according to Kurds, is Kurdish land, whenever inside Turkey at present. And then no longer will be "its" land.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
There is no possibility of free Kurdistan on Turkish territory



Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
These borders will never change

you sound like old Prime Minister Ian Smith of Rhodesia who proudly proclaimed in his days "there will not be majority rule in Rhodesia in 1000 years". Those 1000 years passed away, just as the 1000 years of a German ruler of modern times became history.

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
What do you mean by Turkish Kurds? are there types of Kurds like American Kurds, English Kurds? What are you talking about?

There are no English Kurds, but there are Turkish Kurds, Iraqi Kurds, Iranian Kurds and Syrian Kurds .

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 18):
I advise you to go and live with them, if you like them so much.

There are numerous Kurds living in the Greater Zurich area. They even maintain offices of their parties, cultural offices etc. The only occasions when they irk me is when their frequent demonstrations block roads.

Your a bit emotional position highlights exactly what I tried to tell the others on this thread. The US-Americans in the past 3 years educated Kurdish (Iraqi Kurds ! ) in Iraq, gave weapons to them, supported them in every way, and apparently believe that they were ready to accept autonomy as THE solution. I above mentioned the WEBsite of the Kurdish Regional Government. When reading that WEBsite, the impression is clear.


User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 938 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

ME AVN FAN

The land in question, according to Kurds, is Kurdish land, whenever inside Turkey at present. And then no longer will be "its" land.

I am telling again, there is no Kurdistan in Turkish territory. This is the reality. Moreover you say is your fantasies.
I told you before, give some land from Switzerland.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 20):

I am telling again, there is no Kurdistan in Turkish territory. This is the reality. Moreover you say is your fantasies.
I told you before, give some land from Switzerland.

ask some Kurds where Kurdistan is. No, they will not say it is in some areas in Switzerland, they will show you the Kurdish areas in what is nowadays South-Eastern Turkey, what is Northern Iraq, and parts of North-Western Iran.


User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 938 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

ME AVN FAN

There is no Kurdistan. It is the reality. If you don`t want to understand this, you have mental problems.
Sorry for you


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 22):
mental problems

more info about "mental problems" can be seen under
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan
-
suggest you have a close look


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1467 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 22):
no Kurdistan

-
some more mental problems under :

& under


[Edited 2006-06-22 17:22:23]

25 Post contains links Emrecan : ME AVN FAN http://www.gezinet.net/ulasim/harita.asp http://maps.yahoo.com/beta/index.php#maxp=search&q1=%20turkey nothing to say more[Edited 2006-06-2
26 ME AVN FAN : the second simply is how countries look now. Frontiers in history are subject to change. the first one simply is the administrative map of Turkey, an
27 Post contains images Windshear : You know what? I was about to post the very same thing after about 4 replies... I chose not to, but glad some one else sees it aswell Boaz.
28 ME AVN FAN : some similarities, some similar aspects, but also enormous differences in many many ways. You may have noticed that "Marco" points to the aspect that
29 Pilotaydin : comparing palestine's situation with the Israelis to the Kurds and Turks is wrong in my opinion. The two may be related in a weak way when you think i
30 Marco : Kurdistan seems like an invention to me. A Kurdish civilization with borders, never existed like the Assyrian one did. The Assyrian civilization was a
31 ME AVN FAN : the impression is that the Turkish Republic A) until fairly recently was not very accommodating in regard to the Kurdish language to express it polit
32 Windshear : Didn't the Kurds "lend a hand" in the mass murder of the Armenians, because the Ottoman empire promised them a Kurdistan? That is what I have heard.
33 ME AVN FAN : I don't know, but would advise to be careful with such rumours. In 1916, the Ottoman Empire, under its triumvirate, also was in a sitation that they
34 AndesSMF : I just simply have to congratulate everybody on a very decent thread, where all opinions are being shown and answered in a civilized manner. Thanks fo
35 Dougloid : That explains a lot. You're not exactly neutral on this issue. In fact you're busily advocating the Assyrian manifesto and schedule of atrocities. I'
36 ME AVN FAN : quite to the contrary, they will move ahead to full independance at the earliest available opportunity, as that is what they have worked for in the p
37 Dougloid : Absolutely right, and that's what a lot of people have been saying all along. The problem you would have with total independence is that the bulk of
38 Marco : That explains a lot. You're not exactly neutral on this issue. In fact you're busily advocating the Assyrian manifesto and schedule of atrocities. I d
39 B6sea : We'll deal with it like the Republic of China (I'm sorry, I mean Chinese Taipei/Taiwan/Formosa, what are they going by this week?) and PDR of China.
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