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We English Actually Love You Scots!  
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1211 times:

Today has been a weird day.

I wouldn't regard myself as a flag waving patriot, but something happened to me today, something that has compelled me to post this message.

All day I have been reading depressing articles in the Sunday papers, all suggesting that the Union is at threat because of various reasons. On the one hand, some articles suggested that an increasing number of Scots disliked the English. On the other hand, some articles said there is an English backlash against Scots because of the unfairness resulting from devolution. More recently, the articles talked of resentment arising from recent news that a child wearing an England shirt in Edinburgh, and a disabled man waving an England flag in Aberdeen were assaulted.

BUT then I read this article:
Kenny Farquharson heads south and finds warmth and affection for Scots

While reading the article I suddenly smiled.

I know that there are problems with the constitutional arrangement in the United Kingdom, but I just wanted to say that I love Scotland and am very fond of Scots. If England were not participating in the world cup and Scotland were instead, I would gladly display the Saltire from my window and support Scotland all the way. I am proud to be English, very proud to be British and incredibly proud that Scotland is part of the United Kingdom. (I feel the same about other home countries too).

Anyone feel the same?





34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1211 times:

I like Scotland too - My grandfather is Scottish (gives me a vested interest, I suppose!), but as a country the people are great, and it is a lovely place. I suppose 5 weeks of hatred every 2 years isn't too bad  Smile


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1175 times:

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
Anyone feel the same?

Er.....no.

I love Scotland. I support four football teams and as none of them are in the World Cup, I watch it dispassionately and think that Brazil are the best team in the competition. My neighbour has an English flag at his window but as he is English, he is entitled to fly it. No problem. English people are welcome in Scotland, just as I was when I lived in England, and dont let any gutter media tell you otherwise.

But the only thing British about me is my passport. I believe the UK is coming to an end and that the only way out of the current constitutional mess is for the island of Great Britain to become home to two states - Scotland and the rest of GB (assuming Wales wants to stay in).

I love England also, I love visiting England and I have some great English friends. I believe I know more about the country than many English people I know.

But culturally and socially, whilst the nations of the British Isles will always be interlinked and we will always be pals, the UK as a political entity harbours iniquity one way or another, previously towarads Scotland and now towards England. Indeed, one writer was arguing today that England is now the largest stateless nation in Europe. And indeed it is. You have no parliament of your own, no government - only a football and a rugby team to represent you and people in England are now coming to terms with the reality that "Britain" doesn't mean them.

Overall, the UK has had its day and will come to an end soon. It is getting in the way of the countries developing a mutual respect and admiration for each other and the only ones espousing "Britishness" are failed Labour dinosaur politicians such as Gordon Brown who is seeing his glorious reign as British PM slowly disappearing over the horizon even before it starts. Meanwhile, Cameron ahs caught the mood of the nation and is proudly flying his England flag on his bike.

So please fly your St. George's Crosses, and we will fly our Saltires. But the Union Flag is past its sell by date and whilst England and Scotland will always share the island, the way forward is as two states respecting each others sovereignty, but with a the right to do things the way they want rather than the way some Whitehall mandarin tells them to.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1170 times:

Quoting Scotty (Reply 2):
But culturally and socially, whilst the nations of the British Isles will always be interlinked and we will always be pals, the UK as a political entity harbours iniquity one way or another, previously towarads Scotland and now towards England. Indeed, one writer was arguing today that England is now the largest stateless nation in Europe. And indeed it is. You have no parliament of your own, no government - only a football and a rugby team to represent you and people in England are now coming to terms with the reality that "Britain" doesn't mean them.

But there isn't really any argument here as to why Scotland should become a separate nation. Your argument seems to be more that England should devolve from the UK, not Scotland.

Despite what you claim, the evidence suggests there isn't much support in Scotland for independence. In the 2005 General Election the SNP won a whopping 6 seats - 17.7% of the Scottish vote, the lowest since 1987.


User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3312 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1170 times:

All of us british formula one fans were happy to see the great Scotsman, David Coulthard pull a great overtaking stunt on the British Jenson Button near the end of the Canadian Grandprix  Smile


Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1166 times:

I agree. Without Scotland we would have crappy tape. 

[Edited 2006-06-26 01:24:14]

User currently offlineIFEMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

I doubt Scotland could support itself economically. I can't back up that statement.

So, should Scotland declare itself independent, I wonder if all those English who live in Scotland would then become illegal immigrants.

Interesting conundrum.


User currently offlineBA747YYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1140 times:

Quoting Scotty (Reply 2):
So please fly your St. George's Crosses, and we will fly our Saltires. But the Union Flag is past its sell by date and whilst England and Scotland will always share the island, the way forward is as two states respecting each others sovereignty, but with a the right to do things the way they want rather than the way some Whitehall mandarin tells them to.

Would it be a safe assumption that you vote for the Scottish national party? Scotland and England are better off together than apart, and if the people of Gibraltar don't want to separate and neither do the Falklands than the Scottish probably don't feel like it either. You are no where close to Independence! Quebec has had two referendums and their independence party is a lot for successful than Scotland's. Good Luck but it will never happen, because I think people on both sides don't want it to happen. And the Scottish are getting a good ride, as it is. Plus Northern Ireland hasn't split and they had the IRA. Scotland has no resources or will to split. Even the flags show this which flag looks the best and most powerful: the union jack, which just shows together is better in this case.


User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1123 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3):
Your argument seems to be more that England should devolve from the UK, not Scotland. Maybe English people are happy that we can have a say in their country but they cant in ours? Some "Union"

Exactly. Why should Scottish MPs be able to influence like in England in areas where they have no say over what goes on in their own country?

Quoting BA747YYZ (Reply 7):
Scotland has no resources

Apart from North Sea Oil which has bankrolled the UK Exchequer for 30 years, more tidal and wind power potential than most other countries in the EU and a strategic location in the North Atlantic which gives it jurisdiction over a fairly large chunk of territorial waters. Oh and we are also the reluctant home for the UK's soon to be renewed fleet of Trident nuclear ICBM subs, which we really dont want but its a lot safer putting them here than up the Thames.

Quoting BA747YYZ (Reply 7):
You are no where close to Independence!

Pro- independence parties form around 85% of the opposition in the Scottish Parliament. Watch this space n May 2007.


User currently offlineScotty From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 1999, 1875 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1118 times:

Quoting Scotty (Reply 8):
Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3):
Your argument seems to be more that England should devolve from the UK, not Scotland. Maybe English people are happy that we can have a say in their country but they cant in ours? Some "Union"

Sorry - misquited you there because of the technology going a bit skwiffy. You didnt say

Maybe English people are happy that we can have a say in their country but they cant in ours? Some "Union"

I did! Apologies!


User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5136 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1110 times:

An interesting article there. I have to agree that it is a strange arrangement whereby the Scottish MPs can vote on English matters, and fully support the move to change this.

As you probably know, I am all in favour of independence for Scotland, and will vote for it next year. The UK is no longer required, its time the union was put to rest. As it stands the Scottish parliament has a lot of power, but there are still a few issues wish are governed from London. Why not just move all powers to Edinburgh and us control our own destiny?

A large proportion of the Scottish people want independence, and hopefully they will vote for such a move in the elections. I doubt such independence would have much an effect on england and its economy, so hopefully if enough people vote for it, we will get it.

As for scotland surviving on its own, I dont see why not. Last time I looked the UK had a budget defecit, and was running up a national debt. Scotland on its own would initially struggle, however with rising oil prices the natural resources in the north sea would provide a decent income. Additionally as a new entrant to the EU we would be entitled to similar funding which poland latvia etc is currently recieving. This would tide us by for a few years while the economy establishes itself.

When devolution was granted, the economy in Scotland (and particularly Edinburgh) boomed as companies moved into the city and established a headquarters there. With independence we would see a similar boom, as more major companies move in and establish a scottish head office.

You would also see a boom in employment as the government establishes itself and sets up various government bodies, we would need our own embassies abroad as well as associated foreign affairs committies, plus many other government departments would be needed to oversee the running of the country. The increase in status of Scotland would fuel the economic boom as scotland establishes itself better on the international stage.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineVc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1408 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1097 times:

If Scotland went their own way then perhaps the British Government would bring home all those Tax offices which were positioned in Scotland to improve employment. I do hope so as then I will be able to understand them when I phone them.

I am sure also that the new independent Scotland will change its name to
Gaelic name and will also do away with all that false culture that was invented for them by the English during their romantic period.

Right I am off before the war begins  box 

littlevc10


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1086 times:

Let's just have a bit of a look at the finances of Scotland, shall we?

£34 billion was generated in tax in Scotland in 2003-04. The government spent £45.3 billion. This leaves a gap of £11.3 billion. Even if you include every last penny of oil revenue from the North Sea (£4.3 billion), there's still a £7 billion gap.

So, Scotland, by all means become independent. Us Englanders would much rather have the extra £7 billion of our money spent on us. Of course, a few dozen closed hospitals and schools, lower social security, less public transport, less police and less armed forces will be a reality in the new independent Scotland, but the idea of independence is far more comforting than pesky reality, isn't it?


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1084 times:

We love the Scots !!






Apart from Kirkie and Gordon Brown obviously  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24928 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1073 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 13):
Apart from Kirkie and Gordon Brown obviously

Gordon Brown is a bloody Englishman anyway. We disowned him the day he said he'd be supporting England.
Anyway, aye, Scottish MPs shouldn't have a say in English matters



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 1065 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 14):
Gordon Brown is a bloody Englishman anyway.

No he's not !  grumpy 

You don't want to claim him, we don't want to claim him - shall we say he's Welsh ??  Wink



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24928 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 1061 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 15):
You don't want to claim him, we don't want to claim him - shall we say he's Welsh ?? Wink

Or even worse, American  stirthepot  duck 



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 1048 times:

Perhaps he could be granted Isle-of-Man citizenship - thats where we send the people nobody wants, right?  duck 


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24928 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 1047 times:

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 17):
thats where we send the people nobody wants, right?

Also a valid point...  duck 



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 1045 times:

I got to watch the England vs Ecuador match yesterday in Scotland with a bunch of Scots, imagine that...

Suffice to say, they hate us!



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24928 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 1044 times:

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 19):
I got to watch the England vs Ecuador match yesterday in Scotland with a bunch of Scots, imagine that...

Suffice to say, they hate us!

Meh, was too busy drinking to watch that crap  Wink



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1028 times:

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 17):
Perhaps he could be granted Isle-of-Man citizenship - thats where we send the people nobody wants, right?

You're on very slippy ground there sonny jim!!  grumpy 

I have nothing against the Scots. The country is grand, the Malt whisky the only drink and the majority of folk are among the nicest in the world. However, the ones that continually rant about the English, who blame everything on the English and who view anyone not Scottish in Scotland as "White Settlers" do nothing to endear the place to anyone! And, might I add, make themselves look narrow minded and blinkered.

I also agree that the Scots and Welsh MP's should have nothing to do with parliamentary decisions which affect the English.

However, since I live on the Isle of Man and am closer to Scotland than England, have an independant (thats a joke) parliament and a much nicer, quieter lifestyle than you mainlanders, I really couldn't care less who screws the English/Scots/Welsh/Northern Irish!  stirthepot   duck 
Ah well, back to work. Big grin

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1016 times:

Britishness has not failed and the Unite Kingdom has not failed. But I take your point that if something is not done, it probably will in the long term. My view is that there are two types of Scots who want independence.

On the one hand you have Scots who always have, and always will demand Scottish independence. Even when Scotland boomed in the 19th century, and Glasgow became one of the richest cities in the world, (both attributable to the Union and Empire), there were Scots who demanded independence.

On the other hand, you have Scots who do not necessarily dislike the Union, or being British, but are slowly coming to the view that independence may be the answer to Scotland's problems. Well what are Scotland's problems?

Firstly the Scottish economy is lagging behind. Many Scots want to know why it is that England is booming, and Scotland is not. Indeed, they want to know why isn't Scotland reaching its potential? This is the country that lead the world in the 18th and 19 centuries intellectually, scientifically and economically. They look to England and they see another picture. In reality, they are looking at London and the South East.

The problems Scotland face are the same problems northern English cities and Wales face. For all the regeneration in central Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle and other cities, go to the outer regions of those cities and the problems they face are exactly the same faced by Scotland - industrial decline, rigid labour market, high unemployment and those who are employed are employed in the public sector. For example, Newcastle and Scotland have a similar percentage of people employed in public sector - both over 50%.

The fact of the matter is that the British economy has over the past 30 years run by London and the South, and governments past and present have not done much to change this. This problem is further exacerbated by the country's institutions, and the way the country is run. Things need to change, and in my view Britain needs a radical review of how it is run, politically and economically. I think a federal system, not on based on the borders of the home nations, but perhaps on larger county, or in London's case city borders could work. Real power, and I mean real power to decide local taxes, local business taxes, investment could give a kick start to Britain's regions. Look at Germany. Yes the country is facing economic problems, but it is still the world's largest exporter. German business is still providing good results. Apart from the east, which is still integrating, the western German States have their own economic centres. In Bavaria look at Munich. In Hesse look at Frankfurt. In Baden-Württemberg look at Stuttgart. I could go on.

I really think it would be a shame if the United Kingdom split up. 300 years of history, most of it glorious, and yes some of it shameful. But in those 300 years, England and Scotland together with the rest of Britain made the modern word. Yes there are problems, and yes I agree politicians of all colours have done little to give back Scotland, the north England and Wales the lease of life they require. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Britain united is far more stronger and then it is split. I know there is talk of Scotland losing out without England, but I would also say England would lose alot without Scotland.

Also what exactly are the SNP offering the Scottish people? Yes with independence Scotland will have full control over fiscal and monetary policy, but only for a short while. They would be the first to hand over Scottish control on these matters to Brussels/Frankfurt as they want Scotland to join the Euro. Also, European Commission President Jose Manuel Borosso has already suggested that European tax harmonisation may be the key to making the Euro work more effectively.

Yes there are problems, but Britain should stay together


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1408 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1008 times:

Concorde001

It is not often you get on a.net a clear and thought out reply like yours,so well done . I am not sure I agree with all say especially about the South of England, where there are for sure some very rich people whose wealth in such a small area distorts everything for those who are not so lucky.
All you hear around here is the call to spread the employment around the country, but more offices and houses just keep on getting built so ruining the area  cry 

littlevc10


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 998 times:

They whinge about a water shortage in the South East, but as you say, all they do is build more and more houses with little or no thought for the infrastructure. They remove the flood plains and over-use the aquifers. And these people are "the Professionals!"

If I still lived there it would almost be worth moving to Scotland. At least they don't appear to have the same moronic attitude to housing.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
25 Post contains images Cornish : By they are you referring to the likes of Yorkshireman John Prescott and his dumb policies ?? But yes that is a joke, but as much to do with migratio
26 Post contains images Gkirk : Who'd want to live in SE England anyway? I would think it resembles a rough part of Liverpool. I suppose that's perfect for the Chavs amongst us *cou
27 Concorde001 : Thank you. I agree, things are tough for those not on high salaries in the South. People n Newham, Hackney, Peckham Tower Hamlets, or even those livi
28 Post contains images Skidmarks : I was referring to the water companies Barrets are just a bunch of enthusiastic amateur crooks. Andy
29 Post contains images Gkirk : Strange, you could say exactly the same about Cornish
30 Post contains images Cornish : No no, I get paid quite handsomely to do my dodgy work - enthusiastic professional crook please
31 Concorde001 : You can do anything with statistics. Put another way, pro Union parties have 85 seats out of the 129 seats in the Scottish Parliament. With Lab and L
32 Planespotting : All I know about the England/Scotland relationship comes from Mark Renton's rant in the movie Trainspotting It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowes
33 BA747YYZ : I meant resources for Independence not natural resources where you are right they out number England in terms of that Key word: Opposition!
34 Scotty : No they dont - those idiots who have had a go at people for flying English flags or whetever are roundly condemned by all Scots who are perfectly hap
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