Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Hamas To Recognize Israel-latest News!  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1716 times:

As reported in "der Spiegl",Fatah and Hamas have agreed to settle their disputes which implicitely includes the recognition of Israel !
More as updated news become available...

http://focus.msn.de/politik/ausland/nahost_nid_31052.html

[Edited 2006-06-27 14:44:48]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Wow. That could be a major breakthrough if in fact all factions of hamas should stick to such an agreement.

I still have trouble believing it, but it could be a watershed event for the middle east...


User currently offlineGreyhound From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
if in fact all factions of hamas should stick to such an agreement.

I'd believe it when I see it too. For a second I thought this was a really really bad super late April Fools thing....

But honestly, I am optimistic. It certainly would be a nice positive event to see happen.... always seeing bad news from that region, never too much good. This certainly would be refreshing.



29th, Let's Go!
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
Wow. That could be a major breakthrough if in fact all factions of hamas should stick to such an agreement.

Exactly.

CNN had something on it yesterday, and I didn't post it.

I guess I'm rather jaded, as I'm concerned that our Israeli and Palestinian brothers might never see eye to eye.

Plus, while I was reading the article the headline about the kidnapped Israeli soldier was staring at me.

CNN Article. Is this the same info as the thread starter source? Sorry I can't read the other article.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/.../palestinians.israel.ap/index.html


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4005435.html


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

Is this why the Israeli army are massing tanks on the Gaza border?

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

Apparently it was a grass roots initiative by prisoners held in Israeli jails, and has been accepted as a 'Two State solution' to hte current issues by both the Palestinian Prime Minister (Hamas) and the President (Fatah).

Looks like steps forward after all!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5121164.stm


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

I have to disagree with everyone here who says it is a step forward. Hamas kidnaps an Israeli soldier, Israel announces that they are literally on the verge of a major military campaign to wipe out terrorist infrastructure in Gaza (another two Kassam rockets hit Israel last night), and all of a sudden Hamas wants a cease-fire?

Let's start by returning the kidnapped Israeli soldier immediately.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

Let's ALL hope this is a major breakthrough, that will help end the violence, leave Israel secure, and give the Palestinian people a State.

User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
I have to disagree with everyone here who says it is a step forward.

I think this will be the exact Israeli response too. The proposal demands COMPLETE with drawl from occupied territories including East Jerusalem, something Israel will IMO never do so easily. They are not interested in just a even and fair settlement of the dispute. While Israel would love Hamas to accept its existence I don't think Israel is ready to talk about the basic problems like occupation and the refugees.
Having said that, I would love this to be taken up by Israel. But my impression of Israel suggests otherwise. They may even use one soldier to launch incursions and then this proposal will be buried under another cycle of violence.
A monumental move by Hamas from the declared aim to "Wipe Israel out', yes, but a sad day for Israel as they at the moment seem interested only in the unilateral resolution of the conflict by drawing its own borders which BTW will never bring peace.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 9):
I think this will be the exact Israeli response too.

I think Israel's response should be "let's see how serious you are", and ask for face-to-face negotiations, that would lead to an agreement between those parties.

If Hamas and Fatah can come to an agreement, through compromise, why stop there? Let the process continue. Talking neve killed anyone.

Israel should be cautious, but invite negotiations to see where the agreement could go.


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1605 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
I think Israel's response should be "let's see how serious you are", and ask for face-to-face negotiations, that would lead to an agreement between those parties.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
Israel should be cautious, but invite negotiations to see where the agreement could go.

Amen! I hope and pray that to be the way things go from here. I have my fingers crossed and should that happen, for the first time in my life will I say Israel has done something commendable. The withdrawl from Gaza would have been close but then I read some facts and changed my mind. Anyway lets see what happens.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 5):
Is this why the Israeli army are massing tanks on the Gaza border?

No, this is being done due to the recent escalation in rockets launchings on the Israeli town of Sderot and as a measure to counter-attack Hamas militants holding the Israeli POW.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 9):
The proposal demands COMPLETE with drawl from occupied territories including East Jerusalem, something Israel will IMO never do so easily.

Israel has already announced general intentions to pullout of 85% of the West Bank. However, since Israel has pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians have been on the brink of Civil War and have stepped up terrorist attacks on Israel proper (so much for the argument that brutal occupation caused the Palestinian woes). If Israel can pull out of the WB in agreement with the Palestinians, then great...but one way or the other Israel will pull out.

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 9):
While Israel would love Hamas to accept its existence I don't think Israel is ready to talk about the basic problems like occupation and the refugees.

Israel spent a decade talking about this and look what happened--four years of violence and 1,000 dead Israelis. Israelis have chosen a different course with the election of Kadima--Pull out of most of the occupied territores, erect a fence, and let the Palestinians kill each other while Israelis are safe.

Israel can't force the Palestinians to be peaceful neighbors. They also can't force the Palestinians to compromise on some of those issues like refugees.

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 9):
They may even use one soldier to launch incursions and then this proposal will be buried under another cycle of violence.

Do you truly take this proposal at face value? If Hamas magically decided they want peace, let them hand over the soldier and say we are ready to talk to Israel. They have NOT done that. They have simply floated this proposal to get the heat off their shoulders about the kidnapped IDF soldier. If they don't return the kidnapped soldier, Israel WILL invade and people like you will blame Israel, correct?


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

Palestine-based Hamas are quite shaking right now , while the Syria based leadership of hamas is exploiting the situation to get the absolute leadership in the movement. While PM Hania knows that his own fate is directly linked to the fate of the Israeli POW Syrian based Hamas leader Mashal couldn't care less. Right now it's all about inner Hamas politics.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
I have to disagree with everyone here who says it is a step forward. Hamas kidnaps an Israeli soldier, Israel announces that they are literally on the verge of a major military campaign to wipe out terrorist infrastructure in Gaza (another two Kassam rockets hit Israel last night), and all of a sudden Hamas wants a cease-fire?

With this attitud you will never advance in Middle -East peace talks.
Should Hamas and Fatah really clinch a deal including the recognition of Israel,it would be a major mile-stone.
Any other qualification would indicate one does not understand the complexity of the ME constellation.
I agree there have been setbacks in the past,but rather than concentrating on set-backs one should try to look forward.
Abou Matzen (Mahmud Abbas) is the best card Israel has in palestine and they are dam aware that he's inan akward situation.Always at brink with civil -war in Gaza,he walks on a very thin rope.Europeans and Israelis have understood his strategic importance .That's why his most recent meeting with Olmert went quite well .



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1588 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
However, since Israel has pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians have been on the brink of Civil War and have stepped up terrorist attacks on Israel proper (so much for the argument that brutal occupation caused the Palestinian woes)

the ongoing occupation, and the lack of viable offers and real perspectives, has given Hamas the chance to grow and to become more important. That is one side. The other side is the structure of the PLO and consequently the P.A.. The PLO was an umbrella organisation of various Palestinian resistance organisations, of which el-Fatah was the most powerful. This lead to the situation where in the end everything was in the hands of aging and ailing old man, and where no real opposition did exist. It is obvious that such a situation in the end WAS to explode.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
Do you truly take this proposal at face value? If Hamas magically decided they want peace, let them hand over the soldier and say we are ready to talk to Israel. They have NOT done that. They have simply floated this proposal to get the heat off their shoulders about the kidnapped IDF soldier. If they don't return the kidnapped soldier, Israel WILL invade and people like you will blame Israel, correct?

You can take everything negatively. Fact is that Hamas now openly SPEAK about this "proposal". And THIS is progress right there. I am sure that the Israeli pressure of the past few days may have helped them to realize that they while playing majority in parliament in a way were in the hands of the Israelis. Negotiations will have to replace the exchange of demands via the media. Complicated and detailed and intelligent compromise-solutions will be necessary to overcome the present "gravel-road".


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

Marwan and others, you seem to be ignoring that none of this means anything until they release that IDF soldier. Israel will likely send its military into Gaza if the soldier is not released and this proposal will mean nothing then.

User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
I am sure that the Israeli pressure of the past few days

it's all tha simple. As I've said, although the local Hamas leadership are shaking right now , the Syrian based Hamas couldn't care less and will continue with their own plans - achieving 2 goals: harassing Israel and winning the politic game against their rivals in Gaza and the West Bank.

Israel, on the other hand , cares much less about what part of Hamas is responsible for what deeds.

This may bring us to the situation that happened with PLO in the late 80s and early 90s when the Gaza and West bank forced the leadership exiled in Tunis to except some of their terms. Arafat was smart enough to get closer to the people actually living in Palestine, I wonder if Haled Mashal will follow this example.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1579 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
that none of this means anything until they release that IDF soldier. Israel will likely send its military into Gaza if the soldier is not released and this proposal will mean nothing then.

you mix up two different things. What the Israelis possibly will do, and in a way have to do, is a short term requirement. The readiness of Hamas to accept Israel and to accept the 2-states-solution however IS a move forward.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 18):
although the local Hamas leadership are shaking right now , the Syrian based Hamas couldn't care less and will continue with their own plans - achieving 2 goals:

your statement implies that Hamas gradually breaks up into different wings and parts and sections ?!

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 18):
Israel, on the other hand , cares much less about what part of Hamas is responsible for what deeds.

it is NOT the business of Israel to care about what section of Hamas wants this or that -- or not. The troublemaker at present IS HAmas. I simply would find it praiseworthy if Israel makes a difference between THE Palestinians and Hamas


User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
Israel has already announced general intentions to pullout of 85% of the West Bank.

I am not fooled by such Israeli plans. Israel has NO RIGHT over 1 inch of that land, the only thing that can be talked about this is how soon is it possible for Israel to withdraw from 100% of WB and East Jerusalem and what compensation is appropriate for those who spends decades as refugees.
Israel wants a unilateral move and draw its own borders as I have said many time before, IT WILL FAIL. Israel will not get all it wants. I give no credit to Israel to plan to withdraw from 85%of land while retaining the best, fertile water rich rest that Israel wants to keep. Can Israel pull it off, on basis of its military yes. Will Israel get peace this way? A big NO!!!! NEVER.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
However, since Israel has pulled out of Gaza the Palestinians have been on the brink of Civil War

That is not because the peaceful just Israelis have left, its because of the economic situation and the absence of foreign aid.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
If Israel can pull out of the WB in agreement with the Palestinians, then great...but one way or the other Israel will pull out.

And there lies the problem IMO. Israel DOESNOT want to negotiate, its wants only a unilateral solution. Mark my words, it will not bring peace. I hope level heads in Israel force it to act the right way.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
Israel spent a decade talking about this and look what happened--four years of violence and 1,000 dead Israelis.

WHAT!!  Wow!
Who are you kidding here, me or yourself??

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
Israelis have chosen a different course with the election of Kadima--Pull out of most of the occupied territories, erect a fence, and let the Palestinians kill each other while Israelis are safe.

Yea a unilateral move that is bound to fail.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
Do you truly take this proposal at face value?

I would like to find out the proper way.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
If Hamas magically decided they want peace, let them hand over the soldier and say we are ready to talk to Israel.

In the same way who hasn't Israel thought of releasing the women and children?? Same rules apply to both IMO unlike yours.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
If they don't return the kidnapped soldier, Israel WILL invade and people like you will blame Israel, correct?

Then let it not be said that Hamas proposal was not wholehearted either. Israel will be to blame yes. Israel should talk instead to issuing threats and demands based on its military power. You are equating the resolution of the entire conflict to one mere soldier. Had that been a Palestinian you would have talked differently. But there are not just one by many Palestinians and on top of it civilian women and children but they are worthless compared to a soldier when its an Israeli in you eyes. Nothing new.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 14):

I am sure the politics of the region and parties is what drives these things any where in the world and you are the closest than any of us to know and understand that.Lets hope for once these politics contribute to the resolution of the conflict rather than the usual otherwise.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1576 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
your statement implies that Hamas gradually breaks up into different wings and parts and sections ?!

Wake up and smell the coffee!  Wink

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
it is NOT the business of Israel to care about what section of Hamas wants this or that

That's exactly what I've implied.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 21):
Wake up and smell the coffee!

I didn't think you meant that. If you did, you may have your reasons, but I won't buy that Hamas after its greatest victory of winning the votes of the public would disintegrate. Hamas is not to be underestimated, this is not their worst times, quite to the contrary its their peak.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
you mix up two different things. What the Israelis possibly will do, and in a way have to do, is a short term requirement. The readiness of Hamas to accept Israel and to accept the 2-states-solution however IS a move forward.

Exactly what I said between the lines.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
I simply would find it praiseworthy if Israel makes a difference between THE Palestinians and Hamas

And I will say it again. From my impression of Israel and its effort to implement the unilateral solution, it is unlikely.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

Quoting Bravo45 (Reply 22):
Hamas after its greatest victory of winning the votes of the public would disintegrate

It happened long time before that.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineBravo45 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 23):
It happened long time before that.

Elaborate please, I have no idea what you are talking about.


25 ME AVN FAN : - I suppose that Hamas NEVER was as unified as it looked on the outside. You may be aware of the point that Hamas has success in the parliamentary el
26 Halls120 : Agree. If Hamas is serious, let them return the captured soldier.
27 Bravo45 : As I said above, why the hell does the same not apply to Israel?? Its holding innocent civilian women and children. While according to you only Pales
28 RJpieces : No, it's not. It is not a coincidence that Hamas comes out with this today, when international pressure (not to mention the most sophisticated man-fo
29 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .....but thanks to the double-standards of the Israeli govt..that won't happen..
30 Bravo45 : Even if we accept that, its a golden opportunity for Israel if its as peace loving as you claim it to be. Why I think its not what you say? THEY HAVE
31 RJpieces : How can you seriously claim this is a golden opportunity for peace? What do you think the IDF should do about its missing soldier in Gaza?
32 LY7E7 : Hamas is actually three different organizations: Hamas Gaza, Hamas West Bank (these two are almost the same) and Hamas internation if you will which
33 Post contains links LY7E7 : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2010914,00.html
34 Bravo45 : Exactly what the Palestinians should do about their innocent people held by Israel. In fact its not even comparable, on one hand you have innocent wo
35 RJpieces : That's not an answer. What should the IDF do now?
36 LY7E7 : Since when are terrorists innocent? And who said that that only males above 18 can be engaged in terrorist activities?
37 Bravo45 : Maybe maybe not. But tell me this: When Hamas was elected, how many of you were betting Hamas (the terrorists and fundamentalists they are) will not
38 LY7E7 : It did NOT happen yet. The title of this tread need to be changed...
39 Bravo45 : My applogy. Correction: When possibility of it happening has come to front...
40 LY7E7 : The possibilty of it as such is not new. It has been discussed long before they came to power. And as a possibility it will possibly change something
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Hamas Refuses To Recognize Israel posted Wed Feb 8 2006 18:35:06 by Cfalk
Abbas To Hamas: Recognize Israel Within 10 Days posted Thu May 25 2006 15:43:30 by Falcon84
Hamas To End Truce With Israel posted Sat Dec 10 2005 00:09:13 by BMIFlyer
Gner Trains: The Latest News? posted Fri Aug 18 2006 09:58:17 by BA787
Iranians Volunteer To Fight Israel posted Wed Jul 26 2006 23:23:13 by Springbok747
Latest News Conference By President Bush posted Tue Mar 21 2006 17:02:53 by Luv2fly
Signing Arab Contracts To Boycott Israel posted Tue Feb 21 2006 00:15:49 by Prebennorholm
Roy Moore: "Role Of Gov't Is To Recognize God" posted Thu Dec 1 2005 17:34:40 by Venezuela747
Arab Countries May Recognize Israel Soon posted Tue Feb 15 2005 02:12:15 by RJpieces
US To Offer Israel $10 Bn..$1 Bn More Than Planned posted Thu Mar 20 2003 17:37:08 by David_itl