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Horrific Murder Of 8 Y/O Girl Near Me.  
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1923 times:

Probably the most brutal murder this state has come across, on monday a 8 y/o girl was raped, murdered and bashed in the toilets of a local shopping mall, the similarities to the Bulger case were remarkable...for the past 24hrs it was thought that the accused killer, Dante Arthus, was John Venables. It's since been proven false though the claims have hindered the chance of a fair trial. On a personal note the arresting officer and head of the investigation is my cousin, it's been a horrific case for all involved.

Girl found murdered in Perth shopping centre
Monday, 26 June 2006. 23:13

An eight-year-old girl has been found murdered at a shopping centre in the southern Perth suburb of Canning Vale.

Sergeant Graeme Clifford says the girl's body was discovered in the toilets at the Livingstone Market Place Shopping Centre late in the this afternoon, she had been shopping with her family.

"Major crime have been called to the location and are here as is police forensic and the matter is being treated as a murder inquiry," Sergeant Clifford said.

"The body of the girl was located by a family member and police were called and as I said it's being treated as a murder inquiry as we speak."

Police are reviewing video footage from the shopping centre's security cameras, witnesses are being urged to come forward.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/items/200606/1672378.htm?perth

http://www.abc.net.au/news/items/200606/1672823.htm?perth

http://www.abc.net.au/news/items/200606/1673157.htm?perth

http://www.abc.net.au/news/items/200606/1674162.htm?perth

[Edited 2006-06-29 13:58:17]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1911 times:

This is abosolutly horffic. I could not imagine what the family would be going through especially the brother who found the body. Lets hope the police can a do their job and find the person who commited this horiffc crime.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1908 times:

Monte, I know how you feel about the death penalty . . .

And you know how I feel about it . . .

The quicker the better, if he is irrefutably found guilty.


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1899 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Monte, I know how you feel about the death penalty . . .

And you know how I feel about it . . .

Unfortunately Ancflyer this is Australia but the dickhead who did this deserves it.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
if he is irrefutably found guilty.

without a doubt


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1890 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
The quicker the better, if he is irrefutably found guilty.

So you'd have another burden of proof? People are convicted 'beyond reasonable doubt', which means there can be some doubt in the mind of the jury. You'd change that, in the case of death penalty cases, to beyond all doubt? You'll get very few convictions if you do that!


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1886 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 4):
You'd change that, in the case of death penalty cases, to beyond all doubt?

Same position I've always maintained . . . you're correct. And elminate the endless  redflag  appeals . . . if you're guilty, you're dead.

For the death penalty to be imposed - irrefutable proof. No reasonable doubt. No questions remain. DNA, witnesses, photographic evidence . . . irrefutable. Otherwise, no death penalty.

My comments were pretty clear I thought.

This assmonkey deserves it - period.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1870 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):

For the death penalty to be imposed - irrefutable proof. No reasonable doubt. No questions remain. DNA, witnesses, photographic evidence . . . irrefutable. Otherwise, no death penalty.

If there's to be no doubt in the mind of the jury, there would have to be ridiculously high levels of evidence to convict.

DNA wouldn't cut it as it can't be shown that everyone has distinct DNA (indeed identical twins have identical DNA) so you can't prove beyond all doubt that the DNA matches that of the defendant. Furthermore, the DNA doesn't show mens rea.

Photographs or video footage wouldn't work because both can be manipulated and there's no way to prove that the person in the pictures is the defendant.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1869 times:

Wanna debate the death penalty yet again, start another - yet another  sarcastic  - death penalty thread . . .

Lets try to keep this one on topic . . .


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1864 times:

the accused has been moved to a mental facility just near Perth, when i first heard about it i nearly vomitted, i saw some live images of the accused and to be honest he looked handicapped. That's not an excuse for his actions, nor is it an excuse for people to start attacking his parents which has happend now. It'd almost be impossible for a fair trial in the state, the publicity has been enormous and made worse by the email that spread around the country.

for me he needs to be tried and locked away for life, I just don't believe in inflicting more death and suffering then there is from this case. i'm not sure how that would sit with the victims family, they are a devout Christian family so they may not approve/believe in the death penalty?!?! For the past 3 night's i've seen my cousin John on tv and sat here wondering what on earth he saw, there are elements of the crime that haven't been released but i can say for certain that she was brutally bashed, had broken limbs and was strangled. Knowing that you'd think i'd be calling for the death penalty...i just don't believe in it.

I feel for the victims family and the accused family, one has to deal with the loss of a child and the other with the fact that, maybe there son is a child killer. No parent should have to live with either of those.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1864 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
If there's to be no doubt in the mind of the jury, there would have to be ridiculously high levels of evidence to convict.

DNA wouldn't cut it as it can't be shown that everyone has distinct DNA (indeed identical twins have identical DNA) so you can't prove beyond all doubt that the DNA matches that of the defendant. Furthermore, the DNA doesn't show mens rea.

Photographs or video footage wouldn't work because both can be manipulated and there's no way to prove that the person in the pictures is the defendant.

this aint a penalty debate...we don't have it in this country so that's that, our judicial system will deal with it using our laws, so lets not go down this track, it's irrelevant here.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
Wanna debate the death penalty yet again, start another - yet another sarcastic - death penalty thread . . .

Lets try to keep this one on topic . . .

You're the one who brought up the death penalty. Are you trying to get out of defending your position now some of the realities of your idea come to light?

What evidence would convince you, beyond all doubt, that the man charged with murdering this girl is guilty and deserves the death penalty?


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 8):
Knowing that you'd think i'd be calling for the death penalty...i just don't believe in it.

I understand and agree with you.

QFF


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1853 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
You're the one who brought up the death penalty. Are you trying to get out of defending your position now some of the realities of your idea come to light?

Let me say it ONE more time . . .for the comprehension impaired:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
Wanna debate the death penalty yet again, start another - yet another - death penalty thread . . .

Lets try to keep this one on topic . . .


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1848 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Let me say it ONE more time . . .for the comprehension impaired:

ANC, we're all disgusted by this crime, and the point of this thread is to inform people and to express our opinions. The subject of the death penalty will arise, and did arise in this discussion; and as long as we keep in mind the terrible event at the centre of it, why should we not discuss the merits of the death penalty in this case?

QFF


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1846 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
You're the one who brought up the death penalty. Are you trying to get out of defending your position now some of the realities of your idea come to light?

What evidence would convince you, beyond all doubt, that the man charged with murdering this girl is guilty and deserves the death penalty?

give it a break..he gave a view on the punishment and John knows full well we don't have it here, it's his opinion on a punishment if he is found guilty...we're not here to discuss the DNA profiles or the irrefutable evidence and judge if death is appropriate penalty, we don't have it so it's pointless debating it!



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1846 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):

Let me say it ONE more time

You can say it as many times as you like, the fact remains that you brought up the death penalty, no one else, and now you're pussying out of discussing it. God forbid someone disagrees with you in a discussion forum.

 Yeah sure


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1838 times:

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 13):
why should we not discuss the merits of the death penalty in this case?

why should we? it's Australia and we don't have the death penalty here so no matter what's said about it, the fact is it's irrelevant, we don't administer it so why bother raising it...in WA the mandatory penalty is life in prison...he could get a sentence which keeps him at the governors discretion.

This will end up becoming a discussion on how we should kill the accused...i didn't raise the thread for that purpose, it's to highlight this terrible crime and make parents aware that maybe reading this that your children are only so safe in the times we live in.

[Edited 2006-06-29 14:57:44]


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1838 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 14):
we don't have it so it's pointless debating it!

And despite that, ANCFlyer wrote:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):

And you know how I feel about it . . .

The quicker the better, if he is irrefutably found guilty.

If you want to bitch to someone, bitch to him.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1835 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 15):
You can say it as many times as you like, the fact remains that you brought up the death penalty, no one else, and now you're pussying out of discussing it. God forbid someone disagrees with you in a discussion forum.

OK Hero . . .

One more time . . . I thought you were only comprehension impaired, appears your difficulties run a bit deeper . . .

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
Wanna debate the death penalty yet again, start another - yet another - death penalty thread . .

I'm waiting on you . . . you can start thread or keep babbling to yourself in this one. Would you like a gold embossed invitation?

[Edited 2006-06-29 15:01:15]

User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 1831 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17):
If you want to bitch to someone, bitch to him.

you've made more out of it then anyone...let it go! you've not expressed any opinion on the horrific crime, just getting into a debate about penalty, how about some remarks about what the family would be going through?



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

Mont, the most this guy can get is Life in Prison, is that correct? What are the possibilities for parole in the Oz judicial system?

I'm always concerned when I have my daughter with me - particularly if we're traveling alone . . .

I recall travelling through SJC with here about 3-4 years ago, on several trips to Monterey, CA. If I had to use the facilities, I'd first find a cop, and leave her there . . . or stand her over by the Airline Check-in counters . . . with explicit instructions to scream her head off if anyone approached her except me.

She's older now - but, still, only 12 and just as vulnerable.

[Edited 2006-06-29 15:08:25]

User currently offlineSoyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 6):
If there's to be no doubt in the mind of the jury, there would have to be ridiculously high levels of evidence to convict.

Well the brother and uncle checked the male and female toilets for her. The brother then checked the disabled toilet, which was locked. The door was then unlocked, and the accused ran out past the brother. The brother, seeing the sister on the ground, then ran after the accused.

This is an open and shut case. There is no doubt as to the guilt of the accused.

However, the death penalty, as emotional as this case is, should not and never be introduced and implemented.


User currently offlineBristolFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Thread starter):
Dante Arthus, was John Venables

So is John Venables in Oz?

BF

PS

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 15):
You can say it as many times as you like, the fact remains that you brought up the death penalty, no one else, and now you're pussying out of discussing it.

No he isn't, he's suggesting that it is discussed elsewhere if you READ HIS POST. SO DON"T DISCUSS IT HERE.



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Mont, the most this guy can get is Life in Prison, is that correct? What are the possibilities for parole in the Oz judicial system?

i'm looking it up, i'll get back to you in a few...i believe the worst sentence possible is life without parole or held at the governors pleasure.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1811 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Mont, the most this guy can get is Life in Prison, is that correct?

Yes this is true

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
What are the possibilities for parole in the Oz judicial system?

Probably unlikely but in many cases parole for life in prision is usually given after 25year correct if i am wrong.


25 QANTAS077 : no...did you read any of what i said?
26 777236ER : At least I can use fucking ellipses correctly. Jeez. Not to be morbid, but do you know how she was killed? I can't find any mention of it in the news
27 Post contains images 777236ER : If you want to discuss parole in the Australian judicial system, start a new thread.
28 Post contains links QANTAS077 : John this is the penalty act from the criminal code of WA. I'd bet that he will get strict security life without parole... CRIMINAL CODE - SECT 282 Pe
29 QANTAS077 : well parole is part of our legal system so it's relevant to discuss it...death penalty isn't so that is IRRELEVANT here.
30 Melpax : I'm pretty sure life without parole is the most severe punishment possible, I'm sure people aren't held at Her Majesty's pleasure anymore. However, f
31 Post contains images 777236ER : And yet ANCFlyer brought it up.
32 QANTAS077 : it's still administered if it is a child who commits wilful murder...
33 ANCFlyer : Similar then to what we have here then . . . . The most heinous of assholes is locked up 23 hours a day . . . in a very small room. Good punishment f
34 Post contains links QANTAS077 : not sure i know any normal people who'd act in this manner...he is now being held at the mental facility though, he appeared by video today from the
35 Post contains images Soyuzavia : Not sure, but I do know reports say that she was naked, and that there was sign of sexual penetration. The police also believe that Arthurs killed th
36 QANTAS077 : she was strangled
37 Post contains images BMIFlyer : Jeseus!! This is awful, I'd hate to be the parents of that young girl..... Lets hope the appropriate level of justice is served. Lee
38 BristolFlyer : Clearly not. I still couldn't find the answer. BF
39 QANTAS077 : neither of them are in Australia.
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