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Moslem Opinions On Homosexuality?  
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

I just read a piece on MSN concerning homosexuality among moslem nations. I have the impression that a majority of moslems consider it to be an abomination. Is this correct, or is it only the extremists who believe this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13712248/?GT1=8307

I believe that homosexuals deserve all of the rights extended to heteros with the exception of marriage. (I do not want this to be the focus of the discussion please-there is another thread for that)

So instead of assuming that most moslems believe that homosexuals are an atrocity without consulting others, I would like to consult here. Do the moslem members of A.net consider homosexuality to be a legitimate lifestyle? Is it common within moslem societies to openly accept gays as humans deserve to be treated?

I am inclined from my readings to say no, but I have read many threads on a.net where some of the things that I believed about Islam have been rebuked by the moslem members on this forum. I specifically have a great deal of respect for MEAVNFAN (I believe that's spelled correctly.) Even though I do not agree with everything that he says, he is intelligent and comments rather than argues.

So, please, any comments or experience concerning homosexuals in moslem countries or from moslem homos would be most educational.

[Edited 2006-07-07 11:50:39]

202 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Some famously long threads on just this issue:

UAE...Not Quite That Open I Guess (by Johnboy Nov 26 2005 in Non Aviation)

United Arab Emirates Jails 11 Gays (by ChiGB1973 Feb 14 2006 in Non Aviation)

Gay Tourism In The Middle East (by NWA757boy Mar 15 2006 in Non Aviation)

Can A Gay Couple Book Doublebed In Dubai? (by CRJ900 Mar 7 2006 in Non Aviation)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3943 times:

The sexual revolution hasnt reached the middle east yet. Avoid iran, since people have been known to get executed because of that.

Beirut is doing fine. I know lots of guys who are openly gay (some of the most blatant among them being moslem), been hit on couple of times, and even been offered paid gay sex once (which I turned down - duh). Turned out I was doing my night walk in the wrong place.

There is an association to promote gay rights in lebanon, and someone attempted to sue it once, but the judge dismissed the claim considering that it is not illegal to defend gay rights It is just the act that is legally considered "against nature".

As for the religious perspective, I am not moslem but the couple of times that I mentionned this subject with a non-homo muslim left me under the impression that islam considers homosexuality as an illness that must be fought.

[Edited 2006-07-07 15:42:38]


rolf
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3920 times:

The Gay Pride parade in Riyadh usually ends up in "Chop chop" square.

Homosexuality is worthy of death. Yet, pederasty is just fine and dandy. But only if you're a mullah.

Now playing: "Boys of Islamabad: the Madrassah edition."


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3912 times:

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 2):
The sexual revolution hasnt reached the middle east yet. Avoid iran, since people have been known to get executed because of that.

It hasnt really reached the west yet. There are many nations where buggery is still an offence punishable by imprisonment or fine.

In Australia, its still illegal in Queensland and Tasmania to commit sodomy or buggery.

In the US its illegal in Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Peurto Rico.

The validity of the above states laws are in question due to a 2003 federal court ruling.

Most western nations only repealed strict sodomy laws in the past 30 years.

Its interesting that mainly only male-male acts are illegal, female-female acts are generally ignored in law.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

An Arab-Israeli Parliament Member had some not nice words to say about the upcoming World Pride in Jerusalem and what would happen if gays approach Muslim holy sites:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3271831,00.html

warned gays that "if they dare to approach the Temple Mount during the World Pride 2006 parade in Jerusalem they will do so over our dead bodies."


User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3887 times:

http://www.globalgayz.com/
http://www.gaymiddleeast.com/

Just some publicity (sorry, have to Smile )... seems that beirut is the most liberated city in the arab middle east:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_rights_in_Lebanon

[Edited 2006-07-07 16:56:30]


rolf
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 4287 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
In the US its illegal in Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Peurto Rico.

The Texas law that attempted to outlaw homosexuality was struck down by the Supreme Court. Homosexuality is not illegal here. Neither are homosexual acts. Homosexual marriage is illegal.

Rick "Adios MoFo" Perry has done an admirable job of alienating homosexuals by telling them that we don't want them in the state. Governor Goodhair is a jackass and a moron.

On the main subject, there are only a couple areas in majority Moslem nations that I have heard about being open to homosexuality or at least not so stringently anti-homosexual that they have outlawed it.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8037 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Actually, I've read that homosexuality does exist in the Muslim world, but it's publicly frowned upon for religious reasons, with very severe punishments.

We know that the Pashtun tribes in Kandahar, Afghanistan have sexual relations with underage boys (the Taliban brutally surpressed this practice) and there are some apocryphal stories that the late Yassir Arafat was openly gay (this comes from a Romanian source, though I take this story with many grains of salt).

[Edited 2006-07-07 18:52:09]

User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3492 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3799 times:

Homosexuality is a sin in Islam and according to islamic preaches and instructions, homosexuals deserve a severe punishment as long as it is originally and clearly prohibited by God, against normal natural and instinctive behaviour and against the continuity of gender.

I totally agree with that whereas i respect those who unfortunately have such a sexual orientation, i normally deal with them...and also do not hesitate to tell them that, according to my beliefs, off the right way !!! Two german collegues are gays and i've never under consider them; we discuss and help eachother all the time.

I dislike the manner some homosexuals want to make a propaganda on themselves and to be considered as poor victims...like some topics on A.Net dealing with homos and aviation. My Godness, they are in aviation, public transportation, hospitals...just like and equal to heteros  Wink


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 9):
Homosexuality is a sin in Islam and according to islamic preaches and instructions, homosexuals deserve a severe punishment as long as it is originally and clearly prohibited by God, against normal natural and instinctive behaviour and against the continuity of gender.

Oh dear.

I saw "Poseidon." Is that severe punishment enough?


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4810 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 5):
An Arab-Israeli Parliament Member had some not nice words to say about the upcoming World Pride in Jerusalem and what would happen if gays approach Muslim holy sites:

I think that having the world pride in Jerusalem can be seen as a provocation by foes of homosexuality and gives them ammunition for their cause. I think Tel Aviv would have been a more appropriate choice.


User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1450 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 10):
I saw "Poseidon." Is that severe punishment enough?

Nope, I want a repeatition of Saw.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineStretch 8 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2568 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3727 times:

I think Jaysit has it about right. Remember how those barbarians in Iran hanged two teenagers last summer after the boys were discovered in a tandem wank scenario? These people are intolerant and dangerous.


Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
User currently offlineVulindlela From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3724 times:

TS-IOR, I was just in Tunisia this weekend (Tunis and Sousse). I had heard before I went how male prostitution is tolerated in the country, and it did seem true to me. There are several streets in Tunis where boys stand out on the sidewalk and get picked up. Little boys (they looked about 10) came up to me several times in groups of 3 or 4 and tried to offer themselves to me. This was always on busy avenues and they were never trying to be discreet. What do most Tunisians think about it?


"If you take everything I've accomplished in my entire life and condense it down into 1 day, it looks decent!"
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 9):
those who unfortunately have such a sexual orientation

Sorry, I don't see it is unfortunate.

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 9):
i normally deal with them...and also do not hesitate to tell them that,

That is soooo kind of you. Remind me to tell you what I think of some of your practices!

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 9):
homosexuals deserve a severe punishment

TS-IOR....For crying out loud...this is the 21 century! Wake up and smell the progress!


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

I recall reading some story about a Qatari prince being given diplomatic immunity after banging a bunch of underage boys in the Czech republic. Anyone remember this?

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 10):
Oh dear.

TS-IOR spoke about "severe punishment" "according to preaches and instructions", but NOT about such punishments actually being conducted, or being demanded by him  yes 

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 15):
what I think of some of your practices!

THAT is interesting ! you know of "practices" of TS-IOR ?  wideeyed   wink 


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 9):

I totally agree with that whereas i respect those who unfortunately have such a sexual orientation, i normally deal with them...and also do not hesitate to tell them that, according to my beliefs, off the right way !!!



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):

TS-IOR spoke about "severe punishment" "according to preaches and instructions", but NOT about such punishments actually being conducted, or being demanded by him yes

You can see he says he totally agrees with that.

N


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4518 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

As other posters have noted homosexuality is not tolerated in Islam but I don't think this is just an Islamic thing. My impression was that none of the major world religions encourage homosexuality, but I could be wrong on that. That said there are a surprising numbers of homosexuals in the Middle East, particularly from ultra-conservative countries.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Thread starter):
Do the moslem members of A.net consider homosexuality to be a legitimate lifestyle?

I'm not muslim myself but I thought I would chime in anyway. Basically I am still trying to sort out my own beliefs on the subject to make them consistent, solid and not subject to double standards, but I believe that God, or who/whatever you believe created the world and created humans, intended for homosexuals to exist and considers them an equal part of creation. Therefore, I believe that rather than seeing homosexuals as inherently sinful, the real sin is believing that homosexuals are inferior to heterosexuals and are thus undeserving of certain human rights due to sexual orientation. Thus, I do not consider the homosexual lifestye, in as much as it consists of a relationship with someone of the same gender, to be illegitimate in any way, shape or form. Anyway, it's a controversial issue and I have pretty strong thoughts to the contrary on gay marriage.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Thread starter):
Is it common within moslem societies to openly accept gays as humans deserve to be treated?

I know precious few muslims that think homosexuality ought to be tolerated. The sentiment is pretty much the same across Arabs and South Asian muslims that I have met. That said, only very few of them have extreme views about it.

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 2):
Turned out I was doing my night walk in the wrong place.

Just out of curiosity, where in Beirut was this Rolfen?



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 9):
Homosexuality is a sin in Islam and according to islamic preaches and instructions, homosexuals deserve a severe punishment as long as it is originally and clearly prohibited by God, against normal natural and instinctive behaviour and against the continuity of gender.

Hmm, lets jsut try something for a moment:

Quote:

Homosexuality is a sin in Christianity and according to the Bibles preaching and instructions, homosexuals deserve a severe punishment as long as it is originally and clearly prohibited by God, against normal natural and instinctive behaviour and against the continuity of gender.

Yup, works perfectly.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

God and religion are evil. End of story.

I find it highly unnatural and against instinct to believe in a freeform being that smites people mightily and lives in the clouds, even more so that such a being would give a flying fuck what us insignificant lifeforms are doing.

I also think people that believe in same have the cognitive function of a 12 year old that believes in santa claus.

Offended? Good. Me too.

N

[Edited 2006-07-08 00:27:03]

User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

More publicity for lebanon

Quote:
Lebanon is the only Middle-east country which showed the film Brokeback Mountain. Circuit Planete started showing the movie on March 23rd, 2006 and ran it for a month. In Lebanon, the movie�s duration is 2 hours and 10 minutes which is only 4 minutes less than the original uncensored movie.



rolf
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 18):
agrees with

....
"" Two german collegues are gays and i've never under consider them; we discuss and help eachother all the time ""
-
as you can see, he does NOT agree with the punishment notion in practical life. He tries to outline the difference between religious theory, morality and practical life.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3633 times:

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 22):
More publicity

But you rather ought to help "AirLiban" by telling him WHERE in Beirut you got approached by "service-boys" !


25 Rolfen : Ramlet-el-baida (go at your own risk)[Edited 2006-07-08 04:16:33]
26 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I'm Muslim and I'm against homosexuality, I openly state it, but it doesn't really bother me all too much, heck, I used to live near the homosexual c
27 Cabso1 : I'm a Muslim and i definitely do not have a problem with Homosexuality. That being said, there are many Muslims that are homosexuals themselves. It al
28 Doona : You mean that we are wrong to feel victimized when above opinions exist?
29 RootsAir : GOSH! Many people in the western world, I have the impression, seem forced by society to accept homosexuality as normal whilst its not!
30 Dtwclipper : Wow, how very true (amazed to be in agreement with you!). Your opinion. I think I'm normal, therefore I am.
31 777236ER : The only two homophobes in this thead? Religious... It's wrong for homosexuals to feel victimised when people like yourself feel it's OK to 'severely
32 Klaus : I see. So are you "against" blue-eyed people as well? Or blacks? Or women? ... It's not a "choice".
33 ME AVN FAN : THAT is a different topic. That you think you are normal does NOT necessarily prove that you ARE normal. The mental clinics would be empty if whomeve
34 777236ER : So not suggesting that people of different sexuality to yourself should be severely punished?
35 Post contains images Emirates773ER : A flamefest!
36 ME AVN FAN : Neither people of different sexuality, nor of different hobbies, nor of different religions, nor of different food/drink preferences, simply NOBODY.
37 ME AVN FAN : Not necessarily. But just imagine that whomever thinks to be president of the USA would BE president of the USA. The White House would become a happi
38 Gigneil : I'm forced to accept Muslims, but they're clearly not normal either. They're not the majority, therefore not normal. In that vein, I guess I'm then f
39 Emirates773ER : 1.4 billion Muslims in the world right now, religiously they are second to Christianity in terms of population.
40 ME AVN FAN : - the Jewish Israelis are a majority in Israel, but NOT a majority in "all-Palestine" (Israel+Palestine), and a tiny minority in the Middle East. The
41 ME AVN FAN : his "world" is the USA, and there, Muslims ARE a minority. It is to be realized however that "Evangelical Christians" and religious Roman Catholics a
42 AR385 : Would you mind telling us how you found that number? Fumanchewd!! nice to "talk" to you again. I am not homosexual, nor muslim, but I'm a Catholic. C
43 SFOMEX : For the sake of fairness RJpieces, it should be noted that Jewish and Christian religious leaders are also mad as hell (not pun intended) about the W
44 AeroWesty : It's a good thing that I don't take unsolicited advice well, because I have no intention of curbing expressing my gayness whenever, wherever or howev
45 AR385 : Great! It's your prerogative.
46 Doona : What do you mean by "flaunt"? I have a rainbow bracelet and key chain. It's for everyone to see, is that "flaunting" my homosexuality? Cheers Mats
47 AR385 : No. What I meant is acting feminine, they are called "Locas" going out in women's outfits and making hysterical scandals over something irrelevant. I
48 AeroWesty : Do you mean drag queens, or something else? If you've read the other threads, transexuals, transvestites and eunuchs are a popular form of entertainm
49 Doona : Hey, I don't think my reply was any more out of context than yours, buddy. I just got a little rattled by this: Do these conditions only apply if you
50 777236ER : So calling for severe punishment on someone isn't being tolerant? Read what I write.
51 AR385 : I am not your "buddy", so please be respectful I am stating my opinion. I am entitled to. You don't like it? Move on. Of course It's nobody's "fuckin
52 AR385 : Again, it's not my personal view. I am talking what will happen to a homosexual in a Catholic dominated society like Mexico. I don't mean drag queens
53 Post contains links Doona : Quoting AR385 (Reply 51): I am not your "buddy", so please be respectful WTF, I was trying to be friendly. Since when is that disrespectful? I have no
54 AR385 : English is not my native language, so I truly apologize for assuming that the tone of your response was aggresive. The conditions are mine. Yes. But
55 Post contains images Doona : Well, if I were from New York, it would be a different story... Cheers Mats
56 AR385 : I edited the post you just answered to. You may wish to read it again.
57 Dtwclipper : Hum, what does this mean? Should I sell my house in my "straight" neighborhood, because there are children on the street? Should we not invite our ne
58 Cedars747 : There is no opinions about homosexuality in Islam,only law or Shariaa is available,and it shows ZERO tolerance Alex!!!
59 AeroWesty : Originally, I wasn't asking you a thing, merely commenting on your "list" of what was acceptable to you or not. As you said, this is a topic concerne
60 Lhrmaccoll : Being 'against' homosexuals or having a problem with their preferences is no better than Hitler. You may as well be racist as well, and hate jews. Pat
61 Rolfen : I'm having doubts about your "psychiatrist".[Edited 2006-07-09 17:10:29]
62 RJpieces : Indeed. I was going to write how sad it is that the only thing that brings all of the religious leaders together is to bash gays, but you beat me to
63 Rolfen : Some people let success mess with their head and start thinking for example that they know what is natural and what is not.
64 AR385 : Sorry, buddy, it's related, as I'm explaining how it's not only islam which has a problem with homesexuality, so it fits here perfectly.
65 777236ER : Nope, it's other bigotted religions, like Catholicism too.
66 AR385 : You accusation of me being bigoted is baseless and insulting. You don't know me. If you do not like what I wrote, referr to the specific parts. We ca
67 AR385 : Ok, go ahead then and suggest all my posts here be deleted.
68 AeroWesty : I guess what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander. We know Catholicism has problems with gays, this topic is for Islam.
69 AR385 : Refer to my post #68
70 777236ER : You said: The definition of bigoted is: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who
71 AR385 : So, because I'm a Catholic I'm automatically bigoted? Something is not right here. Seems to me the bigoted is you. Wether my religion has any opinion
72 777236ER : You think homosexuality is a sin, and even a disease. You are not indifferent to them.
73 BA787 : People need to learn to accept homosexual relationships as they are becoming more common. I am definitely straight but have no problem with homosexual
74 AR385 : My religion does. I don't, but, whatever...I really do not give a flying dingo about your personal opinion of me. I've wasted enough time answering y
75 777236ER : Why not?
76 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Its moment like these which affirms my faith in God.. Being against doesn't really mean a lot, I've already said people have a right to choose......b
77 Klaus : Well, if you're straight, you simply can't be gay, even if you tried. So whether one might be "against" or "for" it is entirely inconsequential. It w
78 Jacobin777 : Incorrect......Homosexuality and heterosexuality are indeed lifestyle choices....whether one believes that people can be born as a homo/hetero-sexual
79 UAL747 : Bleh, I sure as hell didn't choose to be gay. And honestly, there are many times I wish I wasn't because of where I live and the way people think abo
80 Post contains images Klaus : Well, unless you are or "were" gay yourself, you can hardly say that with anything approaching an authority, while pretty much every gay person on th
81 AndesSMF : Tolerance needs to go both ways, I have also seen many 'enlightened' individuals insult other cultures that are not 'enlightened' as they are. Religi
82 UAL747 : Babe, you're going to hear a lot of things in this forum. As to medication to rid oneself of "gayness" I think there have been studies where fetuses
83 Post contains images Jacobin777 : What the hell is your problem? Where did I speak "negatively" about homosexuals and homosexuality? so before you decide to go off..get the facts stra
84 UAL747 : Don't think I ever made any direct reference to you, now did I... UAL
85 Klaus : Pretty much every gay person on the planet knows from their own experience that it's anything but a "choice". You, however, made a very specific and
86 Dtwclipper : Could yo provide a link to your source? I've searched the apa site, and can't find anything like your quote. Thanks
87 Post contains images Emirates773ER : So u mean to say that after all this evolution and advancements we as human beings having a higher intelligence than any other species on earth must
88 Post contains images Klaus : I see you're pulling out the last stops of decency to justify your bigotry. You're missing a decisive difference: Contrary to your oh-so-tasteful com
89 Post contains links PWM2TXLHopper : Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 82): Cant believe I am hearing that homosexuality its a lifestyle choice in this forum. Homosexual feelings may not be somethi
90 Klaus : Sure. But that would be just as perverse as a straight person forcing him- or herself to stop having straight sex. Bigoted views accidentally held by
91 PWM2TXLHopper : Yeah, but straight sex is the normal way, it's natural. There's a reason we have penises and vaginas. Gay sex is perverse, odd, strange. Thus why gay
92 Emirates773ER : No I am not, the only thing I am trying to point out is that using animals to justify your cause is a childish argument at best. A healthy debate is
93 Post contains images Emirates773ER : Flame fest.
94 PWM2TXLHopper : No, just the facts. And I feel it's fair to say the majority of the world agrees with the exception of secular Europe and other Western countries. Bu
95 Post contains images Klaus : So are brown eyes. And yet minorities with blue or green ones exist. See above. Well, most people actually have only penises or vaginas... But speak
96 Klaus : Unfortunately you failed to make your point in any way, so you're back on square one. And not looking particularly good either.
97 PWM2TXLHopper : Nevermind, this explains it all . Tell yourself whatever you want. it's your "butt"
98 Post contains images Klaus : So you're straight yourself but you want to tell me what being gay actually is? That is utterly preposterous! Pretty much like a catholic priest talk
99 Emirates773ER : Sorry but I can't make you believe something that u don't want to.
100 PWM2TXLHopper : Yes, I'm straight and yes I'm telling you that homsexuality is un-natural. I don't know how to state that anymore respectfully. Oh and I edited the p
101 Klaus : You tried to shock everybody by tastelessly equating homosexuality with all sorts of extreme aberrations. But sorry, that attempt simply fell flat -
102 Klaus : With absolutely no actual knowledge to back it up, while any gay person can speak directly from their own experience and even plausibility strongly s
103 PWM2TXLHopper : It's irrelevant because I don't have a sexuality problem. Just like I don't care why some people like animals or why some people like kids, or why ce
104 Emirates773ER : I tried to show you how the animal kingdom you were referencing to has various senseless sexual acts which would be considered immoral in our own soc
105 AR385 : Yeah, I know a lot of people who do this. At least the males, they are the saddest, most miserable, stressesed and unsuccessful people within their l
106 PWM2TXLHopper : Some animals kill their mates after they have concieved, or their offspring if they are weak or sickly..... Good point, I'm going to have to remember
107 Emirates773ER : Concur, plus you do not need to get agitated b/c someone holds a different opinion than urs.
108 Klaus : It seems you very much do - and with other people's sexuality, no less! When you're gay, it is perfectly natural, and straight sex would be weird and
109 PWM2TXLHopper : Yeah, but between 90- 95% of the world population isn't gay. There's all the facts anybody should need to realize it's not natural. And of course its
110 PWM2TXLHopper : All I can say is that I can hardly keep a straight face. Have you ever considered stand-up comedy? Ich bin mude....
111 Post contains images Klaus : I have "very carefully chosen" the topic of this very thread. How nefarious of me...! And you conveniently ignored again the essential distinction of
112 Post contains images Klaus : Sorry, but that argument is obviously false. Only a very small minority of humans have blue eyes or red hair, but very obviously both are very much n
113 Post contains links PWM2TXLHopper : Quoting Klaus (Reply 112): And you conveniently ignored again the essential distinction of not harming anyone in the process. That's a separate debate
114 Emirates773ER : I am clearly wasting time here, do and think as u wish.
115 PWM2TXLHopper : Same here. See you at the Love Parade! Gut nacht!
116 Post contains images Klaus : Which is performed by not all gay and by quite a few straight men. Straight sex has its own more prevalent risks. Which is why procreation appears to
117 Klaus : Sorry, but you simply failed to make the point you had hoped for. So if you don't have any plausible arguments, you're indeed better off elsewhere. B
118 Emirates773ER : Sadly other people saw my point and that is all what matters, u need to be more vigilant the next time around.
119 Klaus : You only stated that in your opinion,homosexuality was the same as necrophilia, rape and paedophilia. Which - beyond being absolutely revolting - is
120 Post contains links ME AVN FAN : look under http://islamicweb.com/begin/results.htm some main figures here : Total Number of Muslims on the Earth (1996) 1,482,596,925 Total Number of
121 ME AVN FAN : if you call for severe punishment of someone, you do NOT tolerate someone but condemn someone it in reality is NOT "with the exception of" but "inclu
122 Doona : So we fags are equal to pedophiles and necrophiliacs? Wow, thanks buddy. Cheers Mats
123 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : FAGs ???? I thought that a "fag" is somebody "working" for a queer ?
124 Raffik : Why don't we explore what Christians think of gays, and MANY OTHER RELIGIONS who think that homosexuality is a sin. For God's sake! Go to your local c
125 Post contains images TS-IOR : I am in the 21st century, i am up and i am in the progress to sink It is a personal point of view that i adopt from my religious belief, and i think i
126 Jacobin777 : first of all I only stated my opinion in that I don't personally believe in the homosexual lifestyle...but that it wasn't my right to choose for othe
127 Jaysit : The next time you're offered a blow job tell the offeror that penises were meant for vaginas. Because thats the natural way. Better still, expound on
128 Gigneil : Holy shit. Where the hell have I been? Its not debatable, unless you're going to debate the side that your straightness is a choice and you actually c
129 AndesSMF : Great quote, Raffik! The determination for a moral life shall be simply to say whether a person, by the way the life their lifes, do more good than h
130 Cedars747 : Unfortunately this wont work in the Islamic world !The gays should be punished by throwing them from the top of a high mountain"that is what the law
131 AndesSMF : Perhaps it wont work in the Muslim world, but I am more disturbed by reading the attitudes in the western world, or even in this forum. Whether you a
132 Raffik : Don't you dare talk to me about being rude- it is you, Sir, who is the rude one, for publicly denouncing homosexuality as being "wrong". Lifestyle ch
133 PWM2TXLHopper : Keep it in the closet then, and it won't be a problem for you.
134 Post contains images Doona : If I had the money I'd pay for a FC membership and add you to my RU-list, as I am already at the 25-mark. And hey, even if it were been a choice, I w
135 Post contains images Fumanchewd : It seems as though there are two highly polarized sides to this issue, but most heteros fall somewhere in the middle. (No pun intended) One one side y
136 AR385 : You and I have our little differences but sometimes we disagree. What I like is that we can do it civily. I don't think there are two polarized sides
137 JpetekYXMD80 : Bwahahah. Get a life!
138 Post contains images Fumanchewd : My props out to you!! No one deserves to be beaten for who they are (exlude child molestors or home schooled children . I completely agree with you.
139 AndesSMF : I was deeply thinking about this for a few days, my opposition to gay 'marriage'. Let me know if you like my explanation. And the aside of this is th
140 Emirates773ER : That actually is a very good point.
141 Doona : I think you get your point through in a good way. But I have some disagreements; Gays still have MORE restrictions that straight people. Is anyone sa
142 ME AVN FAN : Could not agree more ! THIS is exactly what I also feel about it .
143 Gigneil : Its hardly reactionary. Its quite well reasoned. Almost everything wrong with this world is as a result of religion. Hate, oppression, war, gender in
144 Post contains images Raffik : Well said & Congratulations with your Civil Ceremony
145 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Those things are a byproduct of human nature. Greed has caused class inequality and poverty long before organized religion. War is a byproduct of hum
146 Fumanchewd : Of course your statement is true, but there will always be good and there will always be evil. Pssst. Believe it or not, some people (such as yoursel
147 Vulindlela : Like I said, they came up to me in the streets. I tell them to go away and they do. I don´t think it is a way to rob people, as I had read how commo
148 Post contains images Gigneil : So is religion. We all need answers to questions, and we're all fearful of things we don't understand. N
149 AndesSMF : And this is where the wording should not be 'people are created equal' because we are all unique. The wording should be 'all people have equal rights
150 Cumulonimbus : Bull sh*t. But I do not have a problem with homosexuals as long as they do not press it upon me, and yes "Flamers" Irk me to no ends. Mike
151 Jaysit : That is an extremely baseless point. Restrictions on marrying one's mother or daughter or sister are in place because of valid health concerns, both
152 Gigneil : Its really just further fuel that marriage itself should be illegal. Illegal might be a strong word, but the government should neither issue nor recog
153 Fumanchewd : Long before monotheist religions got involved, marriage in the Roman empire was not religious and was merely the basis for raising a family. It is tr
154 HKA : It is like asking a muslim if alcohol or drugs is permitted just because a percentage of muslims are taking them. The fact is homosexuallity is strict
155 Klaus : I'm sure the comparison is rather uncomfortable for someone who habitually looks down on gay people, but the behaviour is exactly the same as the his
156 Cumulonimbus : Wow before you assume that I look down on gay people you should read what I said. I think it is BS when gays say it is not a "Choice". Oh BTW I have
157 ME AVN FAN : - and do you want to say that your two uncles have a choice, and did decide to be guy ? and could change with three visits to a nearby psychiatrist i
158 Post contains images Klaus : Excellent question...!
159 AndesSMF : But my point was that marriage already comes with certain restrictions, and once the gay community succeeds in removing one restriction, others may b
160 AR385 : The concept that homosexuality is not a choice, but you are born that way has found great acceptance but however many studies exist that show that mig
161 Klaus : You're confusing a few matters here - whether or not something is genetic is a separate matter from whether or not you can change it. There are multi
162 AR385 : So, then we are in agreement, it is not a genetic, ingerited trait. And there are millions of gay people that have had a choice. So, sorry, empirical
163 Klaus : There is evidence that points to genetics not being the only factor, even though there is evidence that genetics do play a role. Sure: To hide or be
164 PWM2TXLHopper : I think there's at least some evidence that suggest's one's own 'confusion' is often a contributing factor as well. And while we're on the topic of e
165 Dtwclipper : HIV can be transmitted just as easily via hetro sex, just depends on "what" your doing! Source please!
166 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Because anal sex is riskier. I think that the membrane in the ol shute is more delicate and can rip easier, therefore introducint the disease into th
167 Post contains images B747_A340 : Because you know.. 13 year olds are marrying 40 year olds now and there are millions of polygamists in Canada, Belgium, the Netherlands and Spain now
168 Fumanchewd : oohh. errr... I mean.... Uh, how can you compare the two?
169 B747_A340 : mm lets see. It was generally accepted back then that people from African descent were sub-human and even implied that it was the white man's right t
170 Fumanchewd : So you are comparing the human enslavement, raping, and killing of millions of people to a government not allowing homosexuals to marry. Man are you o
171 B747_A340 : In no way I am comparing those two. I am using it as a presedent in the shift of thought and how once one of the barriers crumbles the others follow.
172 PWM2TXLHopper : This whole thread is flaming. It's almost like San Francisco without the hippies, or Provincetown without the lobsters.
173 Post contains images Fumanchewd : Well, we did get the opinions of some moslems and there was constructive conversation concerning those opinions. Yes there has been some idiocy and s
174 AR385 : If you re-read my post, you will see that I am saying that genetics do play a role No, some young men when they are experimenting in their teens or e
175 777236ER : Woah, where did that come from?!
176 Pdpsol : Is it possible for a heterosexual man or woman to "experiment" with homosexual activity? Sure, of course it is, but that is not the point. One can "c
177 AR385 : If you read my post, 163, and the discussion that followed with Klaus, you will see that while what you are saying is possible, there is no hard scie
178 Mt99 : What about young kids? I mean (hope not to offend anyone) but there are some small boys out there that act in a certain way that is diffeerent from o
179 Pdpsol : It is irrelevant what EXACTLY determines one's sexual orientation. However, wouldn't you agree the best way to establish whether sexual orientation i
180 AR385 : Maybe. What I am saying is that there is not a shred of evidence, beyond the empirica and anecdotical that proves they did not have a choice. I belie
181 Mt99 : Im a not going to speak out of place and define certain behaviours or "mannerisms" as you call them. But i am sure u know what i mean. If you want yo
182 Pdpsol : I am not referring to rape, but activity where both parties [adult parties, of course] clearly express consent to engage in sexual activity. That is
183 AR385 : I am surprised that of all members of a community you would fall in the trap of stereotypes. Because a kid is kind of feminine in the way he talks an
184 Post contains images Mt99 : Isnt that what i said? Ohh! juicy gossip anyone? Did you make that choice? (Insert joke here) Its a happy place in my mind were homosexuals run free
185 AR385 : Sorry to disappoint, but while it was not my experience. It was someone close to me. No juicy gossip here. And yes, this person has made "choices." I
186 Mt99 : So you are basing your opinion on 1 observance?
187 AR385 : No. That was an observance close to me. I'm basing an opinion on some other observances and in the existing literature.
188 AR385 : Would you be willing to say that a person that is intoxicated can have enough judgement to decide wether or not they want to engage in sex? Personall
189 Pdpsol : Of course, if someone is so completely drunk they are incapable of comprehending what they are doing, then they cannot grant consent. That is not wha
190 PWM2TXLHopper : Although they might not make the choice to be attracted to people of the same gender, they do however make the voluntary choice to engage in homosexu
191 JpetekYXMD80 : ok....... Who would you want to sleep with, someone who you're attrated to or someone you're not? What on earth kind of point are you trying to make?
192 PWM2TXLHopper : I'm afraid I really can't expand on this because certain people on here get offended when they hear the truth, and I wouldn't want to burst any prote
193 JpetekYXMD80 : I personally find your bigoted opinions far from the truth.
194 TBCITDG : Fumanch + PWM2TXLH: I do not know where exactly you got your theories that Anal intercourse is more dangerous than regular sex when it comes to HIV. T
195 PWM2TXLHopper : That's fine, but I reserve the right to be bigoted towards those that engage in what I consider a perverted, unhealthy, deviant, immoral and confused
196 Post contains links PWM2TXLHopper : For starters, how about The Center for Disease Control (CDC) http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/msm.htm
197 Klaus : The essential difference being that nobody has anything against who you are, while you are constantly spewing abuse against others who you apparently
198 Post contains links Fumanchewd : The anus is a very sensitive orifice. The anus is composed of delicate tissues, and special care should be taken during anal sex. There are many bloo
199 PWM2TXLHopper : If you knew me, than you'd know that that couldn't be any further from the truth. I've been "different" my whole life, and for most of my adult life
200 PWM2TXLHopper : Ok, so that means anybody with traditional/moral or a religious viewpoint on the issue of homosexuality must not even be allowed to open their mouth
201 Doona : But why? Why not just let yourself, and other people be different? You did use derogatory language, and I feel that being called "perverted and sick"
202 VirginFlyer : I think this thread has gone well off the track of the original posters question about Muslim opinions on homosexuality, and turned into a more genera
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