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The Strongest Rebuke Of The NY Times I've Seen...  
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6865 posts, RR: 34
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

I received this via email and thought it was the strongest letter I've read about the NY Times' embarassment and seditious act.

******************************************************
Lt. Tom Cotton writes this morning from Baghdad with a word for the New York Times:

Dear Messrs. Keller, Lichtblau & Risen:

Congratulations on disclosing our government's highly classified anti-terrorist-financing program (June 23). I apologize for not writing sooner. But I am a lieutenant in the United States Army and I spent the last four days patrolling one of the more dangerous areas in Iraq. (Alas, operational security and common sense prevent me from even revealing this unclassified location in a private medium like email.)

Unfortunately, as I supervised my soldiers late one night, I heard a booming explosion several miles away. I learned a few hours later that a powerful roadside bomb killed one soldier and severely injured another from my 130-man company. I deeply hope that we can find and kill or capture the terrorists responsible for that bomb. But, of course, these terrorists do not spring from the soil like Plato's guardians. No, they require financing to obtain mortars and artillery shells, priming explosives, wiring and circuitry, not to mention for training and payments to locals willing to emplace bombs in exchange for a few months' salary. As your story states, the program was legal, briefed to Congress, supported in the government and financial industry, and very successful.

Not anymore. You may think you have done a public service, but you have gravely endangered the lives of my soldiers and all other soldiers and innocent Iraqis here. Next time I hear that familiar explosion -- or next time I feel it -- I will wonder whether we could have stopped that bomb had you not instructed terrorists how to evade our financial surveillance.

And, by the way, having graduated from Harvard Law and practiced with a federal appellate judge and two Washington law firms before becoming an infantry officer, I am well-versed in the espionage laws relevant to this story and others -- laws you have plainly violated. I hope that my colleagues at the Department of Justice match the courage of my soldiers here and prosecute you and your newspaper to the fullest extent of the law. By the time we return home, maybe you will be in your rightful place: not at the Pulitzer announcements, but behind bars.

Very truly yours,

Tom Cotton
Baghdad, Iraq

*****************************************************

Damn straight! About time someone rebukes them in the manner they should. Of course, the Jorge Bush administration is so shell-shocked and lacks political resolve to appropriately deal with the Old Gray Mare.

Great letter.  bigthumbsup 

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

A lot of bark, but no bite. This reeks of fraud. He states his name, but never references the company or whatever he is a part of or the name of the soldiers killed and injured. And if our financial surveillance works so well to prevent roadside bombings - why are they a daily occurance? "Harvard Law" - yeah, there's a new one. Of course, there's no reference to the specific espionage laws either. No names of the judge or law firms he worked for. This is probably one of those things some guy made up and sent to all the conservative bloggers who swallowed it and puked it back up all over the Internet.

User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2217 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 1):
A lot of bark, but no bite. This reeks of fraud. He states his name, but never references the company or whatever he is a part of or the name of the soldiers killed and injured. And if our financial surveillance works so well to prevent roadside bombings - why are they a daily occurance? "Harvard Law" - yeah, there's a new one. Of course, there's no reference to the specific espionage laws either. No names of the judge or law firms he worked for. This is probably one of those things some guy made up and sent to all the conservative bloggers who swallowed it and puked it back up all over the Internet.

Your post sounds like wishful thinking after reading something that does not align with your world view. Quote sad actually. The DNC has taught you well though, if you cant argue the facts, attack the opponent personally. Well done!

Maybe you should contact this guy and demand all the information you require, and tell him that without a verifiable resume, list of references, and a sword affidavit, you cannot believe a word he says. Yep, that sounds rational.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Wow! Conservatives slamming the NY Times. In other news Catholic Pope takes a shit with a bear in the woods.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 1):
This is probably one of those things some guy made up and sent to all the conservative bloggers who swallowed it and puked it back up all over the Internet.

More than likely

It's interesting that the story in question was printed in the WSJ on the same day. So are they guilty of treason too?



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

So the soldier in Iraq is lambasting the very freedoms he is there to protect (apparently)?

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, if its not absolute then its not freedom.

Since Sept 11 2001, the US government has full access to international bank records (via compulsory subpoena issues under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which are only supposed to be used in a national emergency) and also to all local, national and international calls. Librarians have been criticised bt politicians for refusing to hand over library records to police wihtout subpoena, ISPs have been taken to court to force handover of records.

Governments very seldom limit themselves again after granting themselves such powers of operation.

If the choice is limited freedom from your government, or the very small chance of a terrorist attack, which would you choose?


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Prosecute the people in the goverment who leaked the info to the NY Times, not the newspaper.
What will be next? Jail more journalists because they oppose the illegal war on Iraq ?

If that letter is indeed true, then someone inside the goverment must pay time behind bars for leaking classified data to the media. As illegal as the war is, there's no justification for jeopardazing the lifes of young americans in the battlefield.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 2):
Your post sounds like wishful thinking after reading something that does not align with your world view. Quote sad actually.

Actually, I would be interested to see what laws were violated. And if indeed they were, I would not have a problem with charges to that effect.

But it's good to see that you'll swallow everything whole as long as it DOES align with your world view - even though there's absolutely NOTHING verifiable in the source.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 2):
Quote sad actually.



Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 2):
if you cant argue the facts, attack the opponent personally

LOL. As I said before, there are no facts, which is the main problem with this fraudulent letter. And considering this person probably does not exist, there is no one to attack personally.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
Plato's guardians

Plato had guardians ? Do you think he meant Pluto's guardians ? Not that I'm familiar with them either. Closest I have to things springing fully armed from the soil was when somebody (I forget who, possible Perseus, or Theseus) sowed dragons teeth and they grew into fully armed warriors. I rely on Banco or some other classical worthy to correct me.

Point is, this Harvard alumnus' classical education must have missed out Mythology 101.


User currently offlineFDXMECH From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, if its not absolute then its not freedom.

Can you yell fire in a crowded theatre? No. With freedom comes responsibilities.

If a boat is taking on water, do you have the right to put water back in the boat as others are bailing it out?

[Edited 2006-07-10 21:52:51]


You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2145 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 6):
Actually, I would be interested to see what laws were violated. And if indeed they were, I would not have a problem with charges to that effect.

But it's good to see that you'll swallow everything whole as long as it DOES align with your world view - even though there's absolutely NOTHING verifiable in the source.

It would seem that you are not familiar with the concept of an EDITORIAL. It is opinion and nothing else. He is not required to prove or disprove anything. What planet are you from? That is why they put OPINION at the top of the page!

Sounds like if he would have blamed Bush for everything wrong in the world, supporting documentation would not be required.

Hypocrite.

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 8):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 4):
Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, if its not absolute then its not freedom.

Can you yell fire in a crowded theatre? No. With freedom comes responsibilities.

The founding fathers have stated in many ways that your individual rights and freedoms only extend to the point at which they infringe on other peoples rights and freedoms.

If you yell fire in a theater and there is no fire and someone gets killed, you are guilty of wreckless homicide at the very least and maybe murder. Freedom of speech would not be a defense, and in fact would get a defense lawyer disbarred for incompetence.

Not a hard concept to grasp really.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6865 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2145 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 6):
even though there's absolutely NOTHING verifiable in the source.

Except the facts of the matter that the NYT violated trust placed in them and put our initiatives to fight terror in jeopardy.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 7):
Plato had guardians ? Do you think he meant Pluto's guardians ? Not that I'm familiar with them either. Closest I have to things springing fully armed from the soil was when somebody (I forget who, possible Perseus, or Theseus) sowed dragons teeth and they grew into fully armed warriors. I rely on Banco or some other classical worthy to correct me.

Point is, this Harvard alumnus' classical education must have missed out Mythology 101.

Actually, his reference isn't off base. If he was alluding to the following...

http://www.friesian.com/plato.htm
http://www.wsu.edu:8001/~dee/GREECE/PLATO.HTM

Quote:
The best and the brightest, a very small and rarefied group, are those who are in complete control of the state permanently; Plato calls these people "Guardians."

....then he is correct. Plato was the first to make the correlation that Lord Acton would later make famous...that "absolute power corrupts absolutely." Plato understood the nature of man, and so his philosophies of the ruling class, how they spring out of nowhere if not kept in check, makes sense in context of the author's letter. At least that's how I understand it.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 10):
Actually, his reference isn't off base. If he was alluding to the following...

http://www.friesian.com/plato.htm
http://www.wsu.edu:8001/~dee/GREECE/...O.HTM

Thanks for the reference, that's interesting. My apologies for the slur on the correspondents education, it's a good analogy.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

I hope this icon of patriotism also sent the same letter to the Wall Street Journal.

Or did their simultaneous disclosure not count? (Same question to Bush, Faux News, etc)

Lt. Cotton should also go in for a refresher in Constitutional law while he's busy trotting out his credentials. And re-examine the Espionage Act of 1917, as well as 18 USC 798.

The reality is that this attack on the NYT has failed to create any traction since Bush and his attack dogs on Faux News, etc. first jumped on it - simply because the notion that it was damaging was bogus. So now the muck machine creates yet another right wing voice in the screaming blogosphere.

This too will pass.

(As an addendum, there is also something odd about all of this. THe right wing blogs have trotted out this Tom Cotton's teachers at Claremont College where he ostensibly received a Masters after graduating Harvard College in 1999. They also state that he received his JD in 2002. Well, whether one likes it or not, a JD is a 3 year program and Harvard's program only starts in the fall, which would mean that if Mr Cotton went to Claremont for a Masters degree, the earliest he could have graduated Harvard was 2003. After having studied and sat for the bar exam in August 2003, he could only have started practicing in the fall of 2003. Yet, the Houston chronicle states that he left his Houston practice in January 2005 to enlist. This gives him essentially one year of practice post graduation. Thus, I'm assuming that his practice at "2 prominent DC law firms" was as a summer associate, during which he probably spent 80% of his time going to dinners, parties, events, seminars and the remaining 20% conducting basic legal research and doing some rudimentary legal work (if you're smart enough to get a summer associate's position in DC or NY or Boston while in law school, thats pretty much what you do and you get paid a LOT). Thus, I rather doubt Mr Cotton's mastery of this very complicated issue (assuming for the sake of argument that the allegations against the NYT are valid and that the terrorists were so dumb they had no clue that their financial transactions were being monitored)).

[Edited 2006-07-10 22:35:16]

User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4900 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 1):
A lot of bark, but no bite. This reeks of fraud. He states his name, but never references the company or whatever he is a part of or the name of the soldiers killed and injured. And if our financial surveillance works so well to prevent roadside bombings - why are they a daily occurance? "Harvard Law" - yeah, there's a new one. Of course, there's no reference to the specific espionage laws either. No names of the judge or law firms he worked for. This is probably one of those things some guy made up and sent to all the conservative bloggers who swallowed it and puked it back up all over the Internet.

 checkmark 

This is clearly total BS and the far right so badly want to believe it that it has been widely accepted. Not too many Harvard Law boys choose Fireworks in Fallujah over a desk job at Finkelstein & Tannenbaum. Basically this letter is a work of fiction from somebody who watched one too many episodes of Over There and thinks he's "Dim"

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 9):
It would seem that you are not familiar with the concept of an EDITORIAL. It is opinion and nothing else. He is not required to prove or disprove anything. What planet are you from? That is why they put OPINION at the top of the page!

So which opinion page did this letter appear in? It's nothing more than an Internet 'letter'. So while 'Op-Ed' may appear at the top of a page, that is totally irrelevant here as this has not appeared in any newspaper. And if you actually bothered to read what appeared below the word 'Opinion', you would see that said 'opinions' are backed by a multitude of 'facts'. (See NY times Editorial on why they decided to publish http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/02/opinion/edkeller.php And try reading past the part that says 'Editorial') If they weren't, as is the case here, they would never appear in any paper to begin with because no one would take them seriously. Except for people who don't care about facts as long as the person is crapping out what they want to hear. Then again, those are the types of people who never read past a newspaper's header.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 9):
Sounds like if he would have blamed Bush for everything wrong in the world, supporting documentation would not be required.

Hypocrite.

 rotfl  I don't recall saying anything about Bush here.  rotfl  You're off your rocker.  rotfl 

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 2):
if you cant argue the facts, attack the opponent personally.

 rotfl 


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 8):
Can you yell fire in a crowded theatre? No. With freedom comes responsibilities.

If a boat is taking on water, do you have the right to put water back in the boat as others are bailing it out?

Telling the people that the government has full access to their financial records is definately akin to shouting fire in a theatre WHEN THERES A FIRE.

If the people dont know about this, how can they ensure the correct legal limitations are in place for the powers used? If these powers are used totally in secret, how can we be sure they are used correctly?


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 13):
Not too many Harvard Law boys choose Fireworks in Fallujah over a desk job at Finkelstein & Tannenbaum.

Actually a colleague of mine from my prior law firm did just that. He graduated back in 1996 from Harvard Law and the firm gave him time off post 9-11 to pursue a stint in Iraq as an infantry officer no less. He was ROTC (Harvard doesn't have his own ROTC program, so its done in conjunction with MIT which has a huge ROTC program).

Thus, there are Harvard educated lawyers who pursue a career as real life soldiers. Its just that this one's numbers and bloated resume don't add up.


User currently offlineTPAnx From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Well, apparently Lt. Cotton does exist:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/tomcotton.asp


I leave it for others to argue his points...



TPAnx



I read the news today..oh boy
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

Sounds like more of the GOP's anti-media campaign. Just another attempt to silence criticism and dissent in this nation.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

Quoting TPAnx (Reply 17):
Well, apparently Lt. Cotton does exist:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapb...n.asp

I too read that.

Which is why I did some snooping around myself, aided primarily by the links in the snopes site, as well as others. See http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014599.php, in particular the laudatory prose by one Mike Uehlmann.

Re-read my addendum in post # 12 if you like, where I air my doubts.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

Nothing linked to your link there, Jaysit.

User currently offlineVSLover From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1897 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2030 times:

the thread starting post is a joke. pure and simple. an attack on the nyt is as equally laughable, and if anything truly shocking has resulted from this is it the incredible tone the WSJ has taken against the NYT via editorials which in essence truly does compromise what journalists working for the WSJ can feel a certain degree of comfort in writing stories when their own paper comes out so strongly against another paper. making the stance of the WSJ even more bizarre is the fact that it did indeed publish the same story as the NYT yet claims a defence of "he started it" by saying the WSJ was not specifically asked to withhold the story, so if the NYT did it, then the WSJ could as well. total BS since a bad story is a bad story.

of course the claims by the WSJ really run contrary to statements made by the Journal Washington Bureau Chief Gerald Seib, who wrote an e-mail to E&P shortly after the story broke claiming that their description of the Times’ story as a scoop was wrong.


“I was surprised to see your news story about the New York Times ‘scoop’ on the government program to monitor international bank transactions. As you could tell from the lead story on the front page of the Wall Street Journal today, we had the same story,” Seib wrote in an e-mail on June 23, the day the stories appeared in print. “Moreover, we posted it online early last evening, virtually at the same time the Times did. In sum, we and the Times were both chasing the story, and crossed the finish line at the same time--and well ahead of the Los Angeles Times, which posted its story well after ours went up.”



http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea...play.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002765355


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 20):
Nothing linked to your link there, Jaysit.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/tomcotton.asp


Then go to http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014599.php


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Oh hell... look at the sh*t storm we've got going on in here!

First, do I think this is legitimate? Eh... not really. It smacks of fraud. Just like that old email that circulated about the Army general who laid the smack'down to a report offended that he was teaching young kids how to shoot guns. I think "Lt Cotton" is really a political activist trying to drum up support.

Secondly, IF this is actually a letter from a real LT, what an idiot. You are a US Army infantry officer. You are not a public spokesperson or a crusader against the rag we call the "NY Times". Keep your head in the game and do not publicly take on the media. He should know that! Sure I speak my mind here on A.net, but I've got anonymity here, I would never publicly express my political opinions for the whole world to read and then attach my name to it. A message to LT Cotton: let the politicians fight this battle, you've got far more important battles to worry about.

Third, the NY Times sucks.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 1):
He states his name, but never references the company or whatever he is a part of or the name of the soldiers killed and injured.

Well wait a minute... here on A.Net, while I've stated my first name, I've never publicly stated what my unit is, what my full name is, etc... Partly because of OPSEC, and partly because I really don't want CID knocking on my door and bitching me out. ...But does that mean I am a fraud??

Just because he doesn't say what unit he is in, doesn't mean he isn't legit. There are plenty of other  redflag  in that email that gives it away he's not who he says he is.

-UH60


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13140 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

These 'subpoenas' are effectively issued by selected people at the FBI and the Justice Department and bypass any judical approval including the FISA court. They are also blanket ones that are in effect for data mining. They may also violate various international agreements. In effect, info from these investigative subpoenas could be thrown out of a court of law in the USA. Using them in the immediate 3-4 months after 9/11 could be justified, even if illegal, but after then there is a total disrespect for the Consititution.

25 AerospaceFan : In a time of war, the Constitution is sometimes silent, is it not?
26 Post contains images WellHung : If, like this person, you were pretending to write an open letter in an 'official' capacity and stated your full name, rank and location, but did not
27 Falcon84 : You might tell that to Mr. Bush, who used his freedoms to start this damned war in Iraq in the first place. Seems he didn't think of his responsibili
28 AerospaceFan : In another connection, it was said as follows: "The Constitution is not a suicide pact." Someone rather well-schooled in the same, said it.
29 Post contains images EA CO AS : First everyone's bitching that he can't possibly be a lawyer - and now it's "Ok, maybe he's a lawyer...BUT HE PROBABLY DIDN'T DO MUCH!" Look, I don't
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