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If God Exists, He Is Truly Beyond Our Ken  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

I have faith that God exists. It's just that: Faith. Blind faith, really.

But I have an interesting thesis: If God were held to human standards, I think He'd be subject to lawsuits a-plenty. For negligence, if nothing else.

Think about it: God is all-powerful, and yet everywhere, there is evil.

We are God's children, supposedly.

Would you let your children run around with deadly weapons, shooting and killing and harming and maiming each other?

There can be only one solution: If God exists, we cannot know His mysterious ways.

That's pretty damned convenient, if you ask me.

242 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

He just likes to take a hands-off role for the moment.

User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Ease off the green stuff my friend.  Wink

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 1):
He just likes to take a hands-off role for the moment.

Yes, the "absent watchmaker" thesis. Not sure that that's so reassuring to me.

They say that there are no atheists in foxholes. Yet, it's profoundly sad, to me, that God makes it so tempting to be one.


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5710 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
I have faith that God exists. It's just that: Faith. Blind faith, really.

I don't believe in the existence of a god or afterlife, but, of the two of us, you have the better deal.

When you die, if there is no afterlife you will be blissfully unaware.

When I die, if there is an afterlife I'm in deep shit.


User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

The thing is is that we have a free will. If we did not, then we would be just robots. So, if God wanted to make everything peaceful and nothing bad happen, wouldnt we just be chess peices waiting for God to move us? Our free will is what makes us chose what we chose. Just like you chose to just believe in a god (I used lower case "g" not knowing who your "god" is) and I chose to believe in God the Father. The God of the Bible. Bad things are a result of sin and uncleanlyness. Your flesh is what causes these "bad" things. Not even the greatest of christians can not not sin.

So I am fine with everything not being perfect. I know that in the end, things will be perfect. Things happening right now in the middle east shows this to be true because it is revieling the prophecys to become true.

Sorry I went way off topic.



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 4):
When I die, if there is an afterlife I'm in deep shit.

 rotfl ...

I'll pray on your behalf.... Wink



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIhadapheo From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 6027 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
If God Exists, He Is Truly Beyond Our Ken

He gave us Barbie, didn't he?



Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

Watch the movie Oh, God!. I don't think what "God" says is too far off the mark.

My favorite quote:

Jerry Landers: "If you're God, how can You permit all the suffering that goes on in the world?"

God: "I don't permit the suffering - you do."


Mark


User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3590 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
It's just that: Faith. Blind faith, really.

Isn't that more hope than faith?

BAB



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineAircraft From France, joined Jan 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

I do believe on some level that there is a God. I think He looks like this:



Now, the universe makes sense, doesn't it.  Smile


User currently offlineCanuckpaxguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

If God were to have simply made life easy for everyone, we'd be pretty bored in life. Whomever your God is, or the Grand Creator, they designed evil so that a> we could recognize good from bad; and b> so we could have some fun once in a while.

G


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 8):
My favorite quote:

Jerry Landers: "If you're God, how can You permit all the suffering that goes on in the world?"

God: "I don't permit the suffering - you do."

This is the same guy who had to take a break after six days, right?



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 12):
This is the same guy who had to take a break after six days, right?

Nope. He works seven days a week. But only 6 hours a day.

Mark


User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3543 times:

They tells me he only flys EL AL

User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 3518 times:

GOD is everywhere in the US - from coast to coast!


http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/paul_kane/pk_volvo_god.jpg


User currently offlineAC773 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
GOD is everywhere in the US - from coast to coast!

 rotfl  ...And for those of you who don't live in the US, I can assure you that that wasn't a Photoshop job. I've seen those things driving around on many occasions.



Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
User currently offlineRev3oh2 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 141 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3492 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

As to why, if God exists, there is evil everywhere....

If God punished all evil right when it occurred, there would be no one left alive on the planet.



...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3414 times:

A heartfelt "thank you" to everyone who participated in this thread. I must say that I remain, if anything, a "skeptical believer" -- if there can be any such thing at all. A believer in spite of myself, I should say.

I have been avoiding this Forum the last day or so because in the face of all the world crises that have gone on, it seems difficult to think of anything that hasn't been said before in connection with the why's and wherefores of current events.

Sadly, I am not sure I can understand God in any terms that can absolve Him of human notions of negligence, if such can be imputed to an Almighty. In particular, it strikes me as particularly disappointing that God allows all the misery to occur in the world as a matter of the consequences of design. It is one thing to say that if God had to punish everyone on Earth during life, then there would be no one who could be unpunished, and thus free will would disappear, as this is an interesting argument; it is another, however, to say that this means that God positively needed to create beings with free will that could cause such injury to each other to the extent that seems irreparable in this world. And, for that matter, why would a perfect God need to create anything at all? The more I think about such questions, the more skeptical I become. Which is why I hardly ever want to think about them.

But in times like these, I must admit that it's difficult not to.

[Edited 2006-07-19 23:18:53]

User currently offlineDoona From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 3770 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
But I have an interesting thesis: If God were held to human standards, I think He'd be subject to lawsuits a-plenty. For negligence, if nothing else.

And you know, he'd probably be in jail, since he killed pretty much everyone who isn't currently alive...

Cheers
Mats



Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
User currently offlineRoger136913 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
The thing is is that we have a free will.

Well said......


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3395 times:

Doona, it would have to be a pretty interesting jail!

Roger, I agree that free will is a good argument; somehow, though, I just think that free will could have been permitted to operate in a safer environment.

[Edited 2006-07-19 23:27:07]

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

One additional thought: In theological terms, Doona, I think that natural mortality is said to be a consequence of mankind's choice at the Garden of Eden. It is often said that Adam and Eve were immortal but lost their immortality after defying God's instructions. But I'm no expert.

User currently offlineRoger136913 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 21):
Roger, I agree that free will is a good argument; somehow, though, I just think that free will could have been permitted to operate in a safer environment.

If you could find the answer to that you would be King of the World forever  Smile


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

Quoting Roger136913 (Reply 23):
If you could find the answer to that you would be King of the World forever  Smile

Then I shall start working on it immediately!

 Big grin  Wink


25 Matt D : It is often said that Adam and Eve were immortal but lost their immortality after defying God's instructions Which raises a puzzling question: If Adam
26 Wrighbrothers : Well, I don't believe in god, never have, most likely never will, not that I have a problem with people who believe in god. However, surly, we create
27 Dc10s4ever : So far there has been no scientific proof that god exists. Till I see some type of proof, it is nothing more than rumor that there is a god.
28 Post contains links Baroque : No mention of the 2003 film with Billy Connolly "The man who sued God" http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2003/08/0...man_who_sued_god_2003_review.shtml And i
29 Korg747 : I think we like to blame God for things that are just "out of our hands." But supposedly, God is all powerful and can control everything. So if he lov
30 Post contains images Queso :
31 Post contains links EmSeeEye : Might I suggest the following reading: http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1138-1,00.html http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/c...answer/0,9777,1601-1-
32 PSA53 : Does God have human feelings? No.Stravation is an issue on the planet,that if God had human feelings, in my opinion,would intervene.It is painful to m
33 Post contains images Mir : That alone should be proof that he does not have humanity´s best interests at heart.... -Mir
34 AirPacific747 : Seconded!
35 Post contains links Mrocktor : God is not short and God is not tall— God is not shaped like a tree or beach ball. Nope, not a hat, and no, not a cat— He’s not a thing like thi
36 DeltaDC9 : He posted it at 20 past the hour, which is 4:20 somewhere. Gotta do what ya gotta do. Exactly. There were a surprising number of very deep comments i
37 Roger136913 : Can't be proven anymore or less. If one knows Astronomy they know Galaxies are coming at us just as fast as those going away from us. A big bang as s
38 Jamotcx : Hmm interesting thread. I never used to think that God exists and the Bible was just some book written to try to get people to get along and be nice t
39 Halcyon : Hmmm. It's about free will. He let's YOU do it. He did nothing. He put no guns here. HUMANS did. If His children are bad, then they'll be punished, bu
40 Post contains images Queso : I wonder what Redngold's take on this would be.
41 Pulkovokiwi : who said it's he?---------------------------------------
42 Baroque : Is that a variation on the theme "God is an Englishman"? It also answers PKKs question.[Edited 2006-07-21 08:08:18]
43 Halcyon : Well, the bible. That's what I go by. I don't let myself get too worked up anymore. I think we call it "selfish." I think it's just symbolic anyway,
44 Pulkovokiwi : If God is a she I will be in the brown stuff bigtime.
45 Halcyon : And if God's my ex...oh my...oh my...I think I just soiled myself...funny how many people I DON'T want God to be, lol. Great post Pulkovokiwi. You se
46 Gunsontheroof : You don't find that to be the slightest bit unbelievable? To me, the idea that any entity has no origins is absurd. This doesn't mean I absolutely re
47 Halcyon : Hmmm. Well, what do you believe? Big Bang? Then there's the classic "Where did the BB come from?" I choose to put my faith in something-a book and hi
48 Post contains images QXatFAT : So please give me the evidence for the other "theories" for how we got here. Evolution? Not proven. Anything else? Not proven. God can do what He wan
49 Gunsontheroof : I don't know what to believe. I will say however, that I'm much more convinced by the big bang theory than the idea that the world was created in six
50 Post contains images QXatFAT : 1.Talking "serpent" would be Satan. The Angel of light. The number one deciver. 2. Animals were not taken on as full grown adults. They were taken on
51 Post contains links and images Halcyon : Please forgive me, I misstated myself. When I said you do not believe, I simply meant you are not going to church, do not think God is true/have no f
52 Mrocktor : God just IS but the Universe had to be created... gotta love irrationality without a shred of self-consciousness. The Universe is everything that exis
53 JGPH1A : So the best thing would be for us to cover our whole bodies with tin foil. Or in your case, just your head. Ummm, yeah. All 73 squillion species of a
54 Post contains images Roger136913 : As I mentioned earlier in my post the Big Bang theory has many flaws. An explosion sending matter out won't have matter coming back towards it as fas
55 Post contains images Halcyon : mrocktor, your explanation purposely misleads readers down your own path of reasoning without actually bothering to explain anything, and is both arr
56 QXatFAT : ???? If you read all that I wrote, there were not as many species of animals like I said. Breading with other animals gets you how many we have today
57 Pulkovokiwi : How could dinosaurs go on the ark? They are bigger than the ark! Sounds like a damn good fairy story to me.
58 Pulkovokiwi : Just so I am prepared when I meet HER do the following count as sins in HER eyes? Farting Leaving toilet seat up Leaving toilet roll holder empty Play
59 Roger136913 : Another thought if it happened is, maybe he took 2 babies of each species? Again it can't be proven either way.........
60 Post contains images Gunsontheroof : Don't be stupid...dinosaur bones were put in the ground by satan to trick us. Thanks. That's much more believable. We're talking about something that
61 Post contains images Halcyon : Well, if "she" is your ex, you'll be a sin in her eyes, lol! Poor Simon...you've a terrible future if that ever happens! The Hun thing was quite amus
62 Baroque : Yes, dogs could evolve, but their mitochondrial DNA would show a common ancestor. You could even work out the date of the divergence and hence the da
63 Post contains images Aircraft : That is true, but it does nothing to back up your argument. The only way we're going to see all galaxies moving away from us is if Earth were located
64 Post contains images QXatFAT : Same thing can be said about your defense. Oh and please show me the science that refutes what I say. (Good discussion...I do not force my faith upon
65 Halcyon : As this hypothesis came from a microbiologist, I am rather inclined to go with it than your post, which also actually lacks facts, please excuse me i
66 JGPH1A : Rude ? Scathing possibly, but really, what other attitude can one adopt ? I was merely pouring justifiable scorn on a theory put forward as scientifi
67 Post contains links Baroque : I could drag the facts out but you would just shift the argument. Yes, a few who claim to be scientists can be cited, but their arguments tend to bre
68 JGPH1A : Hehe - I love the Flying Spaghetti Monster ! Very cool. Anything that mocks the narrow-minded busybody Talibornagains of the Kansas State Board of Ed
69 QXatFAT : All I can do is laugh at you sorry
70 Post contains images JGPH1A : Right back at ya, buddy !
71 Post contains images Skidmarks : You are so right And, in my humble view, there is no such thing as "God". Andy
72 Post contains images JGPH1A : Oy, mush ! Watch it... Signed, God
73 Post contains links QXatFAT : http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html Great article on this topic. For those of you who actually would like answers. Although I know mo
74 Post contains links JGPH1A : OK I read it. And I don't buy it. I readily accept that some cataclysmic flood event may have occurred in the eastern Mediterranean or far more likely
75 Baroque : There is a branch of geology called stratigraphy. It is the systematic analysis of rock sequences. Essentially, the whole world has known stratigraph
76 Post contains images Halcyon : No, you are both rude and arrogant. I shall choose to not be so back, and I doubt very much that you will change. When it comes down to it, neither c
77 JGPH1A : We have a little thing in Europe called a "sense of humour" (note spelling). Look it up. God won't mind.
78 Roger136913 : I know Earth was never the center of the Universe, but if you listen to Astronomers from around the world they say there are Galaxies moving towards
79 Gunsontheroof : So god just put all this evidence of the world being 5,000,000,000+ years old in front of us to confuse us?
80 Gunsontheroof : Well... It's pretty clear you don't put much weight behind what science has to say. I don't mean that to be offensive, I just feel that if you really
81 Post contains links Roger136913 : Carbon dating is not acurate...... http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating.html http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/carbon_dating.asp
82 Gunsontheroof : Interesting that every such link I came across comes from some variation of "christiananswers.com". I'd be much more inclined to be skeptical of an a
83 Post contains images Halcyon : See. You're OK sometimes. Sometimes you're very insensitive. Thank you for not being condescending this time. I can appreciate sarcasm, but being out
84 Baroque : Of course carbon dating has error bars, that shows how precise the measurement is. Accuracy is something different. It is mainly controlled by the qu
85 Baroque : Hi Halcyon. We can agree to disagree. Faith is one thing and evidence a different thing and either learned or hard wired (by evolution of course - jo
86 Post contains images Halcyon : I agree. And there is my "failing." It's more reasonable for me to believe that another being is far superior and operates on different laws-includin
87 QXatFAT : Dont worry. The only thing that offends me is when people attack me personaly with the way I am. Having a debate or discussion can not offend me. Oth
88 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : I know you hate science, but check this stuff out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth http://gpc.edu/~pgore/geology/geo102/age.htm http://
89 Post contains images QXatFAT : Obveusly you believe the Da Vince Code. And nothing can say that the Bible has ever changed. Take the original Greek and Hebrew and you will see it m
90 Gunsontheroof : No. Haven't read it either. Yes, but it doesn't match all the translations out there. Many scientists are, but I suspect most of them would tell you
91 Levent : If god exists, and we are all his children, why does the church have so much difficulty accepting gays? If god exists, why doesn't he tell the pope th
92 QXatFAT : I dont think so. Sorry. Funny because "science" always changes so it can fit evolution and other theroies every time they find out something went wro
93 Gunsontheroof : It's called discovery. We're talking about the same science, right?
94 Levent : Ah... but there is a difference between Adam and Eve living 6000 to 8000 years ago and the earth being that old, isn't there? As far as I know, when
95 Pulkovokiwi : There was no Adam & Eve so its irrelevant.
96 Levent : Oh, I'm not so sure about that, but they were descendants from apes just like any other human beings...
97 Post contains images Halcyon : Those that do not match are usually easily spotable. They, to me, obviously seem twisted to fit the person's VP in but a few minutes of reading. I do
98 Post contains images Halcyon : I have absolute faith also, but it does no good on this forum I am afraid. Since it cannot be proven unless the person in their heart wants the truth
99 QXatFAT : Well if you read the Bible, which I do, and you believe it, which I do, you see that everything was created in 6 days. So you can not say 1,000,000 y
100 QXatFAT : You are absoultly correct. In Romans chapter 8 I think it is, or 7 talks about science. And people looking around for it and beling led astray becaus
101 Post contains images Halcyon : Well, science and twisting the words of te bible, but I've blogged that to death on my myspace account (vollumfaenglich) so it's kinda boring, but ye
102 Post contains images Levent : Well, that's a handy way to go... so he created the world and everything that lives on it, but he did not create earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes a
103 Gunsontheroof : I will reiterate this again. God gets tired?
104 Baroque : Hey there Levent, get with it, the Sumateran tsunami and the Yogya quake were caused by the sinners among the Indonesian population, had you not hear
105 Levent : Yeah, too bad though that all the people who aren't sinners have to suffer as well, eh? That's exactly what I told my grandfather after the August '9
106 Post contains images Halcyon : Bah. Are actually from Thailand and cannot quite translate or are you misinterpreting my words on purpose or what? You seem to be way off here, but a
107 Pulkovokiwi : Do you think we will ever have all revealed?
108 Post contains images Halcyon : No to both sides. And I think it's generally pointless to discuss here, but it does provide a distraction while I'm eating, Pul, and what's better th
109 Baroque : No, but I will bet it would be a disappointment!
110 Pulkovokiwi : So what are you saying? Helen Clark is not God? LOL.
111 Levent : ??? Am I just plain dumb or don't I get it? First you said that god doesn't cause natural processes, and then that he created everything. So, if he c
112 Halcyon : Created the earth, does not control what happens here because he does not want to. Life is a test, and a hard test. Heaven's not meant to be a piece
113 Pulkovokiwi : If there really is a God why doesnt he help the poor? Instead of building grand edifices the churches should be spending on the poor.
114 Baroque : Thats the trouble with you Kiwis, you just dont know when you are well off! As Basil famously nearly said in the Hamster episode of Fawlty Towers, "C
115 LOT767-300ER : You're right, to many a.netters it was Adam & Steve.
116 Halcyon : This is up to the people who really believe in him. The early church actually met in houses, not in church buildings. There is really no need for a l
117 Levent : Is this acceptable? I don't have children, but if I had and I saw that they were misbehaving or in danger of going the wrong way, I would do all I ca
118 Pulkovokiwi : Me with a shotgun what a scary thought. LOL
119 Halcyon : He tells you what to do. It's the Bible. It's not his fault you don't read it or follow it, is it? The sins of the sons are also the father's? No. My
120 DeltaDC9 : That is OUR job, Jesus commanded it, and it is a core value of most religions. Expecting God to do it himself is just LAZY and misguided! He does his
121 Mrocktor : No, what I said was quite different, I defined my terms and explained the logical conclusions. You just read a book and decided to believe that. Quit
122 Mrocktor : From the "omnipotent", "omniscient", "omnipresent" part. How do you not get that is a much more interesting question. mrocktor
123 Roger136913 : Explain this Also explain this? expanding ant an? but the pieces are reacting to one another at the same time?
124 DeltaDC9 : All powerful does not mean He uses it to manipulate us All knowing does not imply manipulation And Gods location is irrelevant too Don't follow you a
125 Post contains links and images Halcyon : No. And now, to top it off, you ignored my comparison. I say the universe exists. Prove it. For something to exist, it has to come from somewhere. It
126 Post contains images Roger136913 : DeltaDC9 I must say that was a great post by you. You view on the Universe expanding at a faster rate? I can't see it having anything to do with Black
127 Post contains links TACAA320 : It's about "faith", not about "science". "In a recent book Max Jammer, Rector Emeritus of Bar Lan University in Jerusalem, a former colleague of Albe
128 Post contains links TACAA320 : Wrong. There is a theory. An unproved one. "The Big Bang Theory is the dominant scientific theory about the origin of the universe. According to the
129 Mrocktor : Well you see, god cannot be all powerful and not be in control of everything. He can't choose to not control you if you are in his control in the fir
130 DeltaDC9 : Sorry, but nothing in that posts proves me wrong in any way. You are simply missing the bigger questions. We can conceive how the big bang happened,
131 Baroque : I am not sure that a bit of scientific method is appropriate here, but you can disprove a proposition, theory, hypothesis, whatever. You cannot howeve
132 Post contains images DeltaDC9 : You have zero proof of that. Rules for God to live by.... You cannot be serious.
133 JGPH1A : I thought the Epic of Gilgamesh was the earliest recorded work of literature. Do you have any source for the link with earlier Chinese history ?
134 DeltaDC9 : I was first told about this in World History class in college. A quick Google of "Chinese great flood" gives 630,880 hits. Now that you know about it
135 Halcyon : I think arguing this is not even worth it. You look to your left and see a car going by. To you, that car is simply in existence. To me, there was so
136 TACAA320 : Only a rational being is capable to have faith. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
137 Mrocktor : Which is a fact, perceptually evident. Which is whim. You could just as well say it was created by a space oyster. Both affirmations are equivalent:
138 Post contains links TACAA320 : The following extracts from "Ratio et Fides" [Encyclical letter] contains the official position of the Catholic Church in this regard. "Faith and reas
139 Post contains links Mrocktor : Your copy/paste capabilities are unmatched! You are truly blessed by god. Or you have been touched by his noodly appendage. mrocktor
140 DeltaDC9 : Ironic ain't it? No, just your opinion. In your opinion How about backing up just one statment with something other than how you choose to percieve t
141 TACAA320 : Not a single commentary against the Encyclical Letter ? That's bad. Like we say here: "I can see blood in your eyes".
142 TACAA320 : "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to
143 Baroque : It is the same as the old ultimate method for secrecy, publish everything and they are too busy reading to take any action. Well done there!
144 Post contains images Halcyon : Then why IS it? And don't say because the universe is the law; that's hogwash. Read the post I left before this on our PsOV. That is the simplified v
145 QXatFAT : Good job Lucas
146 Post contains images Halcyon : Why thank you Mr. Sir! I can feel my respect rating sinking, lol My "A.net hates you, pig" rating is rising, and my "Idiot-Christian" one is going up
147 Toulouse : Aerospace fan, I don't think there is anything wrong with being a "skeptical believer". To believe we have to be courageous enough to question our fa
148 Halcyon : Hmm, you may have the record for the longest handwritten post ever on A.net. Excellent job. Anyway, thanks for the maturity. I respect that.
149 Toulouse : I know... my fingers are sore from typing! Thank you...
150 TACAA320 : Thanks a lot Baroque !
151 TACAA320 : "May Mary, Seat of Wisdom, be a sure haven for all who devote their lives to the search for wisdom. May their journey into wisdom, sure and final goal
152 TACAA320 : By "G"od ? Yes of course. I feel that way since the day I was born !
153 DeltaDC9 : Could not agree more. Science actually has a tendency to produce questions that can only be answered by the existence of God. Einstein talked about t
154 Post contains links TACAA320 : " This is clearly reflected in an interview which Einstein later in life gave to an American magazine, The Saturday Evening Post, in 1929: "To what e
155 Mrocktor : And yet when you cross the street, you look both ways. You babble about faith but you live by reason. Next time the big MACK rig is coming your way,
156 TACAA320 : 'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
157 DeltaDC9 : I am not the one babbling. My favorite quote by 'Al'.
158 Post contains images TACAA320 : Also mine. Just see my signature...
159 Mrocktor : Einstein was wrong. You guys remain uncapable of forwarding a rational explanation for your belief in god. In fact your best explanation is that it do
160 Post contains images DeltaDC9 : So now you are smarter than Einstein? The sad thing is that it has been explained, you are simply incapable of understanding the very rational explan
161 TACAA320 : LOL That was really funny.
162 Post contains links TACAA320 : http://www.allaboutcreation.org/proof-of-god.htm
163 TACAA320 : And you're right... LOL I was expecting this. You are so predictable !
164 Post contains links TACAA320 : E=mc2 >>>>>>>>> Is this also wrong? LOL http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/emc1.htm
165 TACAA320 : You didn't say anything about WHY was he [EINSTEIN] wrong according to you. Will see if you are capable to explain that.
166 Klaus : One should remain aware that Einstein actually offered scientific proof and verifiability for his scientific work while his philosophical opinions wer
167 TACAA320 : " I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religi
168 TACAA320 : No. You are the uncapable one to understand that.
169 Post contains links TACAA320 : "Scientific philosophy In this respect, Einstein had more in common with "classical" physicists. He rejected the idea of the universe being fundamenta
170 Bobster2 : Being an atheist/believer is not a choice, just like being gay/straight is not a choice. Debate is pointless. You are what you are. Instead of Einstei
171 TACAA320 : Simply pathetic!
172 TACAA320 : "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good. (Psalms 14.1)" 1. Psalm 14:
173 Toulouse : Nicely proving YOUR opinion to YOURSELF. And that's fine... believe what you want and don't believe what you don't want to, but don't go around knock
174 Halcyon : Whereas normally his posts are funnt and rational, this thread seems impossible for him, mainly because we're being held to different standards than
175 TACAA320 : He [Mrocktor] never said in which regard and according to him, Einstein "was wrong". Maybe he is still thinking about what to say.
176 TACAA320 : This phrase is correct without the "If".
177 Mrocktor : Einstein was a genius physicist, that says nothing about Einstein the philosopher. I am sure I can design airplanes better than he could too. The fac
178 Toulouse : So you're saying the minds of millions and millions of people around the world, and spanning over many many years, were and are closed for business?
179 Mrocktor : Yes. Truth is not determined by numbers, it is determined by adherence to reality. The effects of this in practice are that, for instance, because of
180 Post contains links TACAA320 : "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to
181 TACAA320 : Maybe. BTW, something that we will never prove since he is already dead.
182 AerospaceFan : This is a beautiful quote, and I am inclined to agree with it.
183 Mrocktor : Come on man, you are better than this! Words have specific meanings. Define "faith", define "reason", define "truth" AerospaceFan. mrocktor
184 HiFi : Millions and millions of people around the world, all of them DISAGREEING over many many years about the same ideal of one (or more than one) all-pow
185 DeltaDC9 : Isn't it? He doesn't even see that while he condemned others for their faith, his faith in his own views are are just that faith. No proof whatsoever
186 TACAA320 : Yes I did it. Some people need to remember things from time to time. I will appreciate so much if you can tell why ? In which post did I say specific
187 TACAA320 : It is. And since you are inclined to agree with it, you don't have to give any explanation to anybody in this regard.
188 AerospaceFan : The heart has reasons the mind cannot know, or some such thing. I did say that I had blind faith, after all. But whether my faith is blind or not, it
189 Post contains links TACAA320 : If God had wanted me otherwise, He would have created me otherwise. --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe http://quotations.home.worldnet.att.net/goethe.html
190 Post contains links TACAA320 : [quote=Pulkovokiwi,reply=95] Can you elaborate a little more your point of view ? http://www.asa3.org/ASA/dialogues/Faith-reason/CRS9-91Plantinga1.htm
191 TACAA320 : Don't you ever never put words in my mouth that I never said.
192 Mrocktor : Well, you gave up on thinking. As long as you recognize that, I'm satisfied. mrocktor
193 Post contains images Mrocktor : This is too good to pass up . Don't think! Don't try to understand! If you like the pretty words thats good enough! HA HA HA. mrocktor
194 Post contains images TACAA320 : I don't know why, but this remember me somebody who claim that Einstein was wrong and never ever explained why. It is.[Edited 2006-08-02 17:05:44]
195 TACAA320 : Not as good as this one >>>>>> Since when Albert Einstein was an airplane designer ? That's really funny.
196 Post contains images Toulouse : Mrocktor, maybe you're not being disrespectful, your arguing is eloquent to say the least, but still you seem to be the one who is blinded by your own
197 Post contains images HiFi : Oh right, you didn't "say" it, you quoted it! (Sorry, just couldn't resist... ) You didn't write "Mrocktor is arbitrary" in all the letters, but you'
198 TACAA320 : Asking someone to prove something [like "Einstein was wrong"] is NOT arbitrary ! You claim that, [and let me quote you] What he [ Mrocktor ] said is
199 HiFi : You misunderstood me.. again... let me try to explain it. Asking someone to prove something is not arbitrary. agreed. Urging someone to prove his poi
200 TACAA320 : My question was incorrectly addressed to you. I am asking Mrocktor. And I am still waiting for an answer [from him not from you]. I have a strong fee
201 TACAA320 : And I couldn't buy that.
202 SA7700 : He does exist and works in mysterious ways. Sometimes we don't understand why bad things happen and why God allows it. God knows, I am asking him this
203 PSA53 : May you and family be strong in this very difficult moment in your lives.My thoughts and prayers.
204 SA7700 : Thanks PSA, I truly appreciate your prayers and thoughts - it means alot to us. SA7700
205 AerospaceFan : I am truly sorry to learn of your most tragic loss, SA7700. It is times like these that words seem most inadequate. May I convey my deepest condolence
206 TACAA320 : I`m really sorry for such a terrible experience. Please accept my condolences.
207 SA7700 : Thank you AerospaceFan and TACAA320 - you can not imagine what your words mean to me. It has an enormous impact on our entire family. She was my pare
208 TACAA320 : Infinitely more important is the word that you find in The Bible, specially the psalms. Don´t give up. Keep praying.
209 Toulouse : SA7700 I am so sorry to hear of your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you. I just recently lost my own father (3 months ago) of natural causes,
210 Post contains images Pawsleykat : I don't think God is a man, I think she is a woman. Like in the movie Dogma where God turns out to be the beautiful Alanis Morissette; If God looks l
211 TACAA320 : If it is a joke, is a very bad one. You don't need to "signed up". Just accomplish with the ten commandments.
212 Post contains links Mrocktor : Since when was he a philosopher? Yet you quote him and expect me to take his statement without question. Well, I am using "truth" to mean "adherence
213 Post contains links TACAA320 : "For, as Einstein observed, science without philosophy is a muddle. And philosophy without science is an empty scheme." "Einstein followed the logic
214 Mrocktor : Yes, the people who gave us the fantastic theory that something can be at two places at the same time (but when we look at it suddenly it's at only o
215 TACAA320 : Just because you say so ? But you can't prove what you said !
216 Post contains links TACAA320 : "Einstein was not a professional philosopher. He was, in Reichenbach’s judicious phrase, a philosopher by implication. Still, it would be more judic
217 Post contains links TACAA320 : Since everybody can be a philosopher. Philosophy means "Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline." And the word "ph
218 Mrocktor : Science is a means to understanding reality. It is the application of rational thought to reality. For scientific knowlege to be valid, metaphysical
219 TACAA320 : Now you are philosophising. When you say... and another one says that... and both give their respective "reasons" to conclude that, both are philosop
220 Mrocktor : Yup, and I am the one that is right. mrock
221 TACAA320 : Yes. From a "philosophical" point of view, everybody is right [even Einstein].
222 Mrocktor : Only if you don't know anything about philosophy (like what "right" means). mrock PS: Arguing with you is completely pointless. I'll answer you if yo
223 Bezoar : Your statement presumes that God is not rational. That would be a false premise, at least with my faith. If one postulates that God is rational, then
224 DeltaDC9 : Proof you do not know what we are talking about? If so, yes that is proof. At some point, any rational human being must accept the possibility that t
225 Mrocktor : God cannot be rational - he already knows everything, he does not think either (what is thinking when you already know everything?). The definition o
226 TACAA320 : What a coincidence. It's a mutual feeling. Blasphemy.
227 Bezoar : Then your beginning assumption is that your observations can be applied to a rational analysis. You also assume that your observations are accurate a
228 Mrocktor : Incorrect. Observation gives us input. All thought proceeds from perception. We observe as infants that objects have identity (they maintain their sh
229 Post contains images DL021 : excuse me.....but has anyone bothered to check if he's beyond our Barbie yet?
230 TACAA320 : He is just babbling. He always does, like a broken record.
231 TACAA320 : I know about philosophy as much as you know about science.
232 Mrocktor : No, you don't. It's clear from your writing that you know next to nothing about philosophy. You believe a lot of things, because the words are pretty
233 TACAA320 : That´s what I said that Because YOU know next to nothing about science.
234 Mrocktor : Toulouse, I'm going to respond to each part of post 147 as you requested. I hope this reply is better at getting to the roots of what you posted. I su
235 Mrocktor : At least you admitted that you know nothing about philosophy. My knowlege of science is extensive in several fields, limited in others, non-existent
236 Post contains links Mrocktor : I think there are two very important points to address in the rest of your post, I quote them below. I address your personal experiences after that, a
237 TACAA320 : If it is as extensive as your humility, your knowledge is zero. I know that, specially since the moment you were incapable (and evasive) to explain w
238 AirPacific747 : Someone please close this thread already! I'm tired of seeing it being bumped up all the time :P
239 Post contains links TACAA320 : “It is not the failure of others to appreciate your abilities that should trouble you, but rather your failure to appreciate theirs.” ~ Confucius
240 Bezoar : First, let me say that I have no illusions that anything I say can change Mrocktor's mind. My responses are really for others who may have been confus
241 AerospaceFan : This discussion is a humbling one, I think, and evocative of the eternal debate among the many sides of the issue of whether God exists. One thought t
242 Diamond : This thread has generated some great points, but has also been one that required a lot of maintenance and 'pruning.' It appears that the topic has bee
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