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Weekly Standard: Confront Iran Now  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1183 times:

Bill Kristol, the editor of the influential conservative publication Weekly Standard, wrote an editorial today calling for the US to confront Iran now.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten.../Articles/000/000/012/433fwbvs.asp

Key points:
What's happening in the Middle East, then, isn't just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What's happening is an Islamist-Israeli war. Better to say that what's under attack is liberal democratic civilization, whose leading representative right now happens to be the United States.

For while Syria and Iran are enemies of Israel, they are also enemies of the United States. We have done a poor job of standing up to them and weakening them. They are now testing us more boldly than one would have thought possible a few years ago. Weakness is provocative. We have been too weak, and have allowed ourselves to be perceived as weak.

The right response is renewed strength--in supporting the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, in standing with Israel, and in pursuing regime change in Syria and Iran. For that matter, we might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait? Does anyone think a nuclear Iran can be contained? That the current regime will negotiate in good faith? It would be easier to act sooner rather than later. Yes, there would be repercussions--and they would be healthy ones, showing a strong America that has rejected further appeasement.

But such a military strike would take a while to organize. In the meantime, perhaps President Bush can fly from the silly G8 summit in St. Petersburg--a summit that will most likely convey a message of moral confusion and political indecision--to Jerusalem, the capital of a nation that stands with us, and is willing to fight with us, against our common enemies. This is our war, too.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1173 times:

I'm happy that the only weapon of mass destruction that author has access to is a word processor.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21865 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1143 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The right response is renewed strength--in supporting the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, in standing with Israel, and in pursuing regime change in Syria and Iran.

That´s a nice idea. But one has to look at the road, not just the destination. Do we really want two more Iraqs on our hands?

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
For that matter, we might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities.

This, however, I´m perfectly ok with. Iran has been far to aggressive to ever get near nuclear weapons.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1118 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Do we really want two more Iraqs on our hands?

Regime change doesn't necessarily mean occupation.

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
This, however, I´m perfectly ok with. Iran has been far to aggressive to ever get near nuclear weapons

Surprised to hear that...So if you woke up tomorrow and heard that the US attacked Iranian nuclear facilities, you would be ok with it?


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1084 times:

Btw, some military analysts have suggested that if Hezbollah missiles land deeper in Israel, then strikes on Iran just might be what we see....

User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9745 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1078 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
Btw, some military analysts have suggested that if Hezbollah missiles land deeper in Israel, then strikes on Iran just might be what we see....

The problem is, that is exactly what these guys in THR want.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12595 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1068 times:

Just watching the BBC tonight and they were talking about a long range missile which it is believed that Hizb'ollah has - the Zelzal, which has a range of 125mi. From S Lebanon, that could hit anywhere in Israel. There have been a lot of reports of the Iranians actually training the Hezzies to use these and having people on the ground. Whether that's accurate or not is another issue, although clearly the longer range missiles now hitting Haifa are Iranian supplied.

However, I think Israel would probably take the view that if Hizb'ollah used one of the Zelzal missiles to attack Tel Aviv, then that would be an act of war; it is, if you like, the line Iran/Hizb'ollah has to cross to be "asking for it". And if they want war ...

It wouldn't surprise me if this was what the less sane elements in the Iranian hierarchy were looking at - a big flash and bang, to bring the longed for war with the "Zionists" to bear. Once this begins Syria would then attack also. Of course, it would be a disaster, because Israel would knock the living you-know-what out of both of them, but of course, the extremists are probably not frequent visitors to Planet Reality. If that's what they want, then so be it.

Of course, if this does happen, it's also an excuse for Israel to take out all known Iranian nuclear plants and research facilities, not to mention air bases, revolutionary guard basis and the IRIAF on the ground. Of course, it's Iran's choice, but it's clear that things are heading in that direction and if it is, then Iran will deserve everything it gets ...


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1057 times:

This is damned downright scary. The neocons in the United States think that somehow Israel's war is the United States' war. They are taking this as the message for them to attack Iran. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that any sort of war with Iran would be a REALLY bad idea.

I also fear what would happen to our troops in Iraq if a war with Iran is started.

But hey, its ok for Kristol to sit and type these things out. I bet he wouldn't ever serve his time or even send his own children to do what he wants everybody elses children to do so badly.



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User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1044 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Bill Kristol, the editor of the influential conservative publication Weekly Standard, wrote an editorial today calling for the US to confront Iran now.

As long as he doesn't have to fight or have a love one in harms way he is okay with it. Wonder how this good conservative expects to pay for the war. On credit like the Iraq war? Where does he expect to get the soilders and equipment that are needed, since we aren't providing another equipment to our men and women in Iraq now?


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1033 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 7):
I bet he wouldn't ever serve his time or even send his own children to do what he wants everybody elses children to do so badly.



Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
As long as he doesn't have to fight or have a love one in harms way he is okay with it.

His son is in the Marines.


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1028 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 7):
But hey, its ok for Kristol to sit and type these things out. I bet he wouldn't ever serve his time or even send his own children to do what he wants everybody elses children to do so badly.

What about you Tbar? Have you served in the military? I'll grant you the point the current crop of GOP folks have a military avoidance issue but unless you know Kristol's background, whether or not he has or has not served, and reasons why if not, then I suggest you drop it.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13199 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1026 times:

NO. NO. NO. Mr. Kristol is saying some scary things. I don't want to piss off Iran any more than they already are. Worse, any attack on Iran by either Israel or the USA would mean oil at $100+ barrel with it's terrible economic affects.
We need to turn down the retoric, and get off oil ASAP.


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
What about you Tbar? Have you served in the military? I'll grant you the point the current crop of GOP folks have a military avoidance issue but unless you know Kristol's background, whether or not he has or has not served, and reasons why if not, then I suggest you drop it.

Now wait a damn minute, suddenly if I haven't served in the armed forces, I can't comment on matters of the sort? I'm not pushing forward an opinion of war, of more violence, that would send more Americans to die!

And to top it off, I am against war and violence. Why shouldn't I speak out against Kristol? He sits calmly at his desk and spouts off violent views and vitriol, as if what this country and the world needs is another war, more people dying, and more utter destruction.

He doesn't seem to even think of this, THAT'S why I speak out on this and against Kristol.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
His son is in the Marines.

My apologies, I was mistaken on this.



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User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1005 times:

What would Iran's position be if this conflict grows into a full-blown war? What's the staus of their military? Would they stand a chance against the Israeli armed forces?

And what I also wonder is what the position of European countries would be if Israel and the USA decide to attack Iran. Would they just automatically stand behind Big Daddy or would they - maybe initially - remain more neutral?

Lastly, having family living in Turkey, I wonder to what extent Turkey would be dragged into the conflict. Will they provide the US with free access to and from air bases? Will they provide troops?


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
His son is in the Marines.

I'll take your word on this.

But then again, it apparently isn't family love according to Wikipedia:

* Kristol's son, Joe Kristol, attended Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.

* Kristol is, reportedly, not well liked by his children.

Must be something about his ethics.


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1001 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
But then again, it apparently isn't family love according to Wikipedia:

* Kristol's son, Joe Kristol, attended Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology.

* Kristol is, reportedly, not well liked by his children.

Lol, that is rather funny I must say. I was actually on his wikipedia page not too long ago and the last part wasn't on there...

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
I'll take your word on this.

He is an undergraduate at Harvard and is a Marine cadet in ROTC.

**Edit: It's on answers.com for some reason:
http://www.answers.com/topic/bill-kristol

[Edited 2006-07-18 05:36:43]

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 991 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 15):
Marine cadet in ROTC.

At this time a wannabe Marine, not exactly in danger just yet. Then again a Marine ROTC at Harvard, maybe he is exposed to some danger after all.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 985 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
* Kristol is, reportedly, not well liked by his children.

Hmm, someone from IP# 69.112.171.29 just edited that out while I was looking at it.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 974 times:

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 12):
Now wait a damn minute, suddenly if I haven't served in the armed forces, I can't comment on matters of the sort?

No, but I suggest you know all the facts about someone before offering an opinion about their possible lack of service or the intentions of his editorial. I have deep connections to the military but was unable to serve due to bad knees, flat feet, and poor eyesight. I suppose any opinion of mine on war will be discounted because I have never served.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 970 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 18):
I suppose any opinion of mine on war will be discounted because I have never served.

Never what I implied or intended to. My whole point was that he's just another neoconservative (the same group that led us to this crime in Iraq) who hasn't served in the armed forces, and YET pushes for more death, more killing, and more destruction.



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User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 965 times:

Well we'll disagree on the crime thing since the idea of regime change was the same policy held by the Clinton administration. But yes, there is an issue of understanding when so many of the Neocons (who I find myself distancing myself from on a daily basis) never served, and in many cases had dubious reasons for not serving, will gladly sign off on sending folks to war.


"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 962 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
However, I think Israel would probably take the view that if Hizb'ollah used one of the Zelzal missiles to attack Tel Aviv,

IMHO, If TLV is hit I doubt there will be a further escalation. IAF is working very thouroughly in Lebanon, and for their work to be accomplished there is no real need in a more massive action.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 935 times:

Quoting Levent (Reply 13):
What would Iran's position be if this conflict grows into a full-blown war? What's the staus of their military? Would they stand a chance against the Israeli armed forces?

I was wondering the same thing, so I started a thread called "Iranian Military Capabilities".


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 931 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Bill Kristol

All you have to do is say that name as the author, and you can reject the idea out of hand. He's one of the authors who, after 9/11 presented to Bush this Conservative Manifesto on pre-emptive actions, which, as we all know, was such a HUGE success in Iraq.

The dude is living so removed from reality that it's scare. He basically wants us to do the same thing in Iran that we did in Iraq?

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
in standing with Israel, and in pursuing regime change in Syria and Iran.

Jesus Christ, what is a matter with this dude? Uh, Bill, did you notice how badly our "regime change" is going in Iraq? And upi want to do it TWO MORE TIMES? How many Americans need to get killed, Mr. Kristol, before your thirst for dominating the globe is satisfied?

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
For that matter, we might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?

Why wait? Easy-because of what happened in Iraq. We didn't wait, and now we're bogged down there?

Good God, but we need to ship the Kristol's, the Pearle's, the Wolfitz's of the world to some remote Island, so they can't propose doing any more damage to this nation.

And yet people take this asshole seriously?


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