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How Did Hezollah Get Its Missiles?  
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

In 2001, Hezbollah was said to have about 5000 Katyusha rockets-most of which were oversized grenade launchers. In 2006,Hezbollah claimed it had 10,000- and it was apparent from the strikes in Israel these were much larger beasties.

Do any of you-preferably from Lebanon-have any first hand information (or reasonably reliable second hand sources) as to :

a. Where these missiles originated ?
b. How they reached Lebanon ?
c. How they got into the hands of Hezbollah ?

(I'd just as soon this didn't turn into a flame war between competing interests-but,if it helps show the truth-bring it on !)


gene
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

IMHO:
- throught the land border with syria
- Through sea



rolf
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1538 times:

Isn't this just a rehash of your other thread:

A Look At Hezbollah's Rocket Arsenal (by Mrmeangenes Jul 16 2006 in Non Aviation)


User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 2):
Isn't this just a rehash of your other thread:

No. It's a request for further information.

I stopped believing in djiins quite some time ago,and, Star Trek notwithstanding,doubt these missiles were teleported into Lebanon.

Rolfen suggests via sea-(shipped from ?);or over the border from Syria.
(I presume that would have been during the Syrian "regency".)

So,friends,does anyone else wish to address my questions ?



gene
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Thread starter):
a. Where these missiles originated ?
b. How they reached Lebanon ?
c. How they got into the hands of Hezbollah ?

A- Iran, but world arms trade is big business so if you have the money.. someone has the weapons.
B- By sea or truck
C- Again, world arms trade is big business.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 40
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1515 times:

Go to your local Blockbuster and rent the movie Lord of War. It's Hollywood, so who knows. . . but it's very good, and it's about illegal arms trade.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

Perhaps I should add a question: If Hezbollah BOUGHT their multi-million dollar arsenal, where did they get the money ?


gene
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1490 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 6):
Perhaps I should add a question: If Hezbollah BOUGHT their multi-million dollar arsenal, where did they get the money ?

countries and wealthy private citizens in the middle east and other parts of the world who share their ideals and mission...



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1479 times:

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 7):
countries and wealthy private citizens in the middle east and other parts of the world who share their ideals and mission...

Follow the money! But don't let the New York Times find out!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

Keep it going !

Unfortunately,only one of our Lebanese brethren (or sistern ?) has responded.



gene
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 6):
Perhaps I should add a question: If Hezbollah BOUGHT their multi-million dollar arsenal, where did they get the money ?

Iran, or syria, or both, or even drug trade maybe...
Donation from wealthy lebanese immigrees too.
I dont know  Smile That is just speculation.

Probably a combination of all the above.
Milicia founding is a highly lucrative business in lebanon  yes 



rolf
User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 9):
Milicia founding is a highly lucrative business in lebanon

To whom is it lucrative ? The Army ? The Government ?

We're talking about a LOT of very serious hardware (I almost said "Syria's hardware"-little pun there !) that took up a lot of space being shipped in, moved about,etc.

Do you think it was done during the Syrian occupation ? Do you think it continued after the Syrians left ?



gene
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1421 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Thread starter):
b. How they reached Lebanon ?
c. How they got into the hands of Hezbollah ?

If Israel is to be believed then the airport Israel bombed the crap out of is was one major entry point.

I would go with the airport, through the ports, and most definitely the border with Syria.

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 11):
Do you think it was done during the Syrian occupation ?

Yes.

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 11):
Do you think it continued after the Syrians left ?

Yes again. Hesbollah is still there and not being kept in check so the weapons continued to come in the country.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1413 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Thread starter):
first hand information

Most are homemade.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
Go to your local Blockbuster and rent the movie Lord of War. It's Hollywood, so who knows. . . but it's very good, and it's about illegal arms trade.

What a great movie that was!

BAB



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20647 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1400 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 6):
If Hezbollah BOUGHT their multi-million dollar arsenal, where did they get the money ?

It's been bandied about on TV this weekend that Iran has been funneling $10-20 million per month to Hezbollah.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1398 times:

Perhaps Wal-Mart. Just joking.
With the cash that Iran has been providing, someone will sell them on the black market. Wouldn't surprise me that they were US made.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2256 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1371 times:

The missiles are Syrian (medium and short range) and Iranian (medium and long range). They were brought into Lebanon in every possible way , including BEY cargo traffic, but mostly by land via the Syrian border.


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1354 times:

All Lebanese know that Hezbollah gets its weapons straight from Syria by ground and generally not through any of the 4 official border crossings.

They try to keep a low profile and use mountain passages and avoid main roads.

Nothing through the seaports or through the airport, too insecure and too high profile.

In the 90's, when the Syrians controled Beirut airport, they may have received occassional weapon supplies by air, but this was before Israel's withdrawal from the south in 2000.

Bhebek ya Lebnan


[Edited 2006-07-18 07:18:54]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 12):
Yes again. Hesbollah is still there and not being kept in check so the weapons continued to come in the country.

I wouldnt be so sure.
When syria retreated, everal steps were taken to better control the border. Illegal crossings were closed and army patrols increased.

It could very well be that HA is using a 1 year old stock.



rolf
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2256 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 18):
When syria retreated, everal steps were taken to better control the border. Illegal crossings were closed and army patrols increased.

You know what seems funny to me? On one hand you guys are saying that the lebanese government cannot control hezbollah, and yet on the other hand the lebanese government can control their supplies? So can it or can it not?

Either way they did not control it - unfortuantely leaving this job to us.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

You forget that it has been only a year since the Syrian pull out. No one could question what the Syrians were bringing in.

BEY and sea ports are not good entry ports since there are costum services. Even if they sneak in something through these points, some people will be aware of and Hezbollah may fear that it will go to US or Israeli intelligence.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 19):
Either way they did not control it - unfortuantely leaving this job to us.

You know, as much as I am for the disarmament of Hezbollah, I find it hard to swallow such comments. You in particular probably know that I always have expressed the same thoughts on this forum in the past regarding Hezbollah's weapons.

What of your plan fails? Who takes care of all the destruction? What job are you exactly doing? I feel so much pain to see all this destruction to our country.
Why target the Lebanese army which has never ever opened fire on Israel since 1949?

You blame us but why the mighty US can not control the situation in Iraq? Where are the weapons coming from.

You still ignore that this is a regional problem but chose to bomb Lebanon since it's the easiest target in the region.

Why for a change, don't take your bloody wars elsewhere and give us a brake?


User currently offlineMrmeangenes From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

Quoting OD720 (Reply 20):

Why for a change, don't take your bloody wars elsewhere and give us a brake

Wasn't it from Lebanon that Hezbollah made daily rocket attacks on Israel ?

Wasn't it from Lebanon that Hezbollah forces invaded Israel,killed Israeli soldiers,and took captives ?

Is this a case of "chickens coming home to roost" - or is it like having a stray dog "adopt" you ; then run out, bark at a bear, and run to you for "protection" ?

I'm not trying to be a critic here:you know your homeland far better than I could ever hope to.



gene
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2256 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1283 times:

Quoting OD720 (Reply 20):
Why target the Lebanese army which has never ever opened fire on Israel since 1949?

Because it sometimes assissts Hezbollah - your navy radars being a good example.

Quoting OD720 (Reply 20):
Why for a change, don't take your bloody wars elsewhere and give us a brake?

I can understand you. This applies not only to Israel , in this "War by a proxy".



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineHaveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 17):
All Lebanese know that Hezbollah gets its weapons straight from Syria by ground and generally not through any of the 4 official border crossings.

If they all know, why don't any take it into their own hands to stop it?


User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1265 times:

Quoting Mrmeangenes (Reply 11):
To whom is it lucrative ? The Army ? The Government ?

To the person who is founding a milicia.
One of the christian milicia that was created (or rather consolidated) during the civil war suddenly got equipped with lots of expensive american gear.
 Wink



rolf
25 Slider : Heroin. No secret there, although it's not reported much.
26 Mrmeangenes : Interesting ! I didn't know Hezbollah was in the drug trade-although it would be a "natural". I seem to recall the Sunni Muslims have no objection to
27 OD720 : That story is as good as Saddam's WMDs. Why would they need to go into the drug business when they have unlimited funds from Iran? Iran has a lot of
28 LY7E7 : Ineed, Hezbollah's opium fields are well known. In fact until this war the harshest response Israel ever got from hezbollah was after IAF burned those
29 Mrmeangenes : I had forgotten about the Hezbollah drug,counterfeiting,and smuggling connection;and, looking at the earlier reports, it begins to appear Hezbollah wa
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