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Israel Bomb 'kills UN Observers'  
User currently offlineLeonB1985 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

"Four United Nations peacekeepers have been killed in an Israeli air strike on an observation post in southern Lebanon, the UN has said." See here for more.

I really do hope this whole situation can be sorted without so many deaths, but it's not looking hopeful...

250 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSonic99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5215366.stm

According to this BBC report the IDF bombed a UN outpost in which 4 unarmed UN observers were killed.

The sequence of events as reported on BBC News as follows:
- the outpost was shelled by IDF artillery 14 times today
- The unarmed UN observers (from Austria, Canada, China and Finland) sought shelter in the outpost which was bombed by Israeli aircraft
- Following the destruction of the outpost, Indian observers from UNFIL (UN Interim Force Lebanon) rushed to the outpost to provide aid and while clearing the rubble they were shelled and bombed themselves. They managed to retreat to their base in southern Lebanon.
- The UN filed a strong condemnation of Israel's war on Lebanon. Kofi Annan calls the attack deliberate

[Edited 2006-07-26 00:19:21]

User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Yes, and the BBC speaker also reported that another UN worker lay dead with his family under the rubble of their own house for one week now, and that the UN hasnt been able to send a rescue mission yet because they are still waiting for the clearance of the israeli army.

These, he said "should bring home the random nature of the israeli bombings"

[Edited 2006-07-26 00:56:16]


rolf
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4379 times:

Quoting Sonic99 (Reply 1):
According to this BBC report the IDF bombed a UN outpost in which 4 unarmed UN observers were killed.

The sequence of events as reported on BBC News as follows:
- the outpost was shelled by IDF artillery 14 times today
- The unarmed UN observers (from Austria, Canada, China and Finland) sought shelter in the outpost which was bombed by Israeli aircraft

That's the bit I heard/watched on BBC World.

I can't help but think the Olmert government has gone totally berserk and is doing everything to get everyone who might report on the war out of southern Lebanon, for reasons I want to think about even less. Israel deserves a better government; even Sharon turned out to be less of a "hawk" in his later days.

Still, all this insanity (from both sides) is far too much to comprehend. Lebanon was on a good way, and now it's being thrown back right to the state of war it escaped from some 15 years ago.

I read a very pessimistic essay written by a Lebanese professor (?) which I can't seem to find anymore, basically he sang his requiem to Lebanon and made the highly cynical proposal of renting out his home country as what it has been for so long anyway - a warzone for other countries. If any two countries wanted to start a war, they could use Lebanon for it while the Lebanese population would go live in those two countries for the duration of the war. It's sad and cynical that he actually has a point.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24924 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

If this is true, then I hope the US/UK have their airforces alert to stop these Israeli attacks.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
If this is true, then I hope the US/UK have their airforces alert to stop these Israeli attacks.

What are the chances of that though?

Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 5):
What are the chances of that though?

Rhetorical question?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBradWray From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 650 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
If this is true, then I hope the US/UK have their airforces alert to stop these Israeli attacks.

The US are supplying Isreal with the wepons they are using to kill so they are not going to stop them using something they have given them!

Bradley! Big grin



Hamilton: English for 'Alonso's bitch' :D
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):
I read a very pessimistic essay written by a Lebanese professor (?) which I can't seem to find anymore, basically he sang his requiem to Lebanon

Not a requiem here, but an eulogy by Robert Fisk, british reporter for BBC - if I'm correct.

Paradise Lost: Robert Fisk's elegy for Beirut
Elegant buildings lie in ruins. The heady scent of gardenias gives way to the acrid stench of bombed-out oil installations. And everywhere terrified people are scrambling to get out of a city that seems tragically doomed to chaos and destruction. As Beirut - 'the Paris of the East' - is defiled yet again, Robert Fisk, a resident for 30 years, asks: how much more punishment can it take?
Published: 19 July 2006
In the year 551, the magnificent, wealthy city of Berytus - headquarters of the imperial East Mediterranean Roman fleet - was struck by a massive earthquake. In its aftermath, the sea withdrew several miles and the survivors - ancestors of the present-day Lebanese - walked out on the sands to loot the long-sunken merchant ships revealed in front of them.
That was when a tidal wall higher than a tsunami returned to swamp the city and kill them all. So savagely was the old Beirut damaged that the Emperor Justinian sent gold from Constantinople as compensation to every family left alive.
Some cities seem forever doomed. When the Crusaders arrived at Beirut on their way to Jerusalem in the 11th century, they slaughtered every man, woman and child in the city. In the First World War, Ottoman Beirut suffered a terrible famine; the Turkish army had commandeered all the grain and the Allied powers blockaded the coast. I still have some ancient postcards I bought here 30 years ago of stick-like children standing in an orphanage, naked and abandoned.
An American woman living in Beirut in 1916 described how she "passed women and children lying by the roadside with closed eyes and ghastly, pale faces. It was a common thing to find people searching the garbage heaps for orange peel, old bones or other refuse, and eating them greedily when found. Everywhere women could be seen seeking eatable weeds among the grass along the roads..."
How does this happen to Beirut? For 30 years, I've watched this place die and then rise from the grave and then die again, its apartment blocks pitted with so many bullets they looked like Irish lace, its people massacring each other.
I lived here through 15 years of civil war that took 150,000 lives, and two Israeli invasions and years of Israeli bombardments that cost the lives of a further 20,000 of its people. I have seen them armless, legless, headless, knifed, bombed and splashed across the walls of houses. Yet they are a fine, educated, moral people whose generosity amazes every foreigner, whose gentleness puts any Westerner to shame, and whose suffering we almost always ignore.
They look like us, the people of Beirut. They have light-coloured skin and speak beautiful English and French. They travel the world. Their women are gorgeous and their food exquisite. But what are we saying of their fate today as the Israelis - in some of their cruellest attacks on this city and the surrounding countryside - tear them from their homes, bomb them on river bridges, cut them off from food and water and electricity? We say that they started this latest war, and we compare their appalling casualties - 240 in all of Lebanon by last night - with Israel's 24 dead, as if the figures are the same.
And then, most disgraceful of all, we leave the Lebanese to their fate like a diseased people and spend our time evacuating our precious foreigners while tut-tutting about Israel's "disproportionate" response to the capture of its soldiers by Hizbollah.
I walked through the deserted city centre of Beirut yesterday and it reminded more than ever of a film lot, a place of dreams too beautiful to last, a phoenix from the ashes of civil war whose plumage was so brightly coloured that it blinded its own people. This part of the city - once a Dresden of ruins - was rebuilt by Rafiq Hariri, the prime minister who was murdered scarcely a mile away on 14 February last year.
The wreckage of that bomb blast, an awful precursor to the present war in which his inheritance is being vandalised by the Israelis, still stands beside the Mediterranean, waiting for the last UN investigator to look for clues to the assassination - an investigator who has long ago abandoned this besieged city for the safety of Cyprus.
At the empty Etoile restaurant - best snails and cappuccino in Beirut, where Hariri once dined Jacques Chirac - I sat on the pavement and watched the parliamentary guard still patrolling the facade of the French-built emporium that houses what is left of Lebanon's democracy. So many of these streets were built by Parisians under the French mandate and they have been exquisitely restored, their mock Arabian doorways bejewelled with marble Roman columns dug from the ancient Via Maxima a few metres away.
Hariri loved this place and, taking Chirac for a beer one day, he caught sight of me sitting at a table. "Ah Robert, come over here," he roared and then turned to Chirac like a cat that was about to eat a canary. "I want to introduce you, Jacques, to the reporter who said I couldn't rebuild Beirut!"
And now it is being un-built. The Martyr Rafiq Hariri International Airport has been attacked three times by the Israelis, its glistening halls and shopping malls vibrating to the missiles that thunder into the runways and fuel depots. Hariri's wonderful transnational highway viaduct has been broken by Israeli bombers. Most of his motorway bridges have been destroyed. The Roman-style lighthouse has been smashed by a missile from an Apache helicopter. Only this small jewel of a restaurant in the centre of Beirut has been spared. So far.
It is the slums of Haret Hreik and Ghobeiri and Shiyah that have been levelled and "rubble-ised" and pounded to dust, sending a quarter of a million Shia Muslims to seek sanctuary in schools and abandoned parks across the city. Here, indeed, was the headquarters of Hizbollah, another of those "centres of world terror" which the West keeps discovering in Muslim lands. Here lived Sayed Hassan Nasrallah, the Party of God's leader, a ruthless, caustic, calculating man; and Sayad Mohamed Fadlallah, among the wisest and most eloquent of clerics; and many of Hizbollah's top military planners - including, no doubt, the men who planned over many months the capture of the two Israeli soldiers last Wednesday.
But did the tens of thousands of poor who live here deserve this act of mass punishment? For a country that boasts of its pin-point accuracy - a doubtful notion in any case, but that's not the issue - what does this act of destruction tell us about Israel? Or about ourselves?
In a modern building in an undamaged part of Beirut, I come, quite by chance, across a well known and prominent Hizbollah figure, open-neck white shirt, dark suit, clean shoes. "We will go on if we have to for days or weeks or months or..." And he counts these awful statistics off on the fingers of his left hand. "Believe me, we have bigger surprises still to come for the Israelis - much bigger, you will see. Then we will get our prisoners and it will take just a few small concessions."
I walk outside, feeling as if I have been beaten over the head. Over the wall opposite there is purple bougainvillaea and white jasmine and a swamp of gardenias. The Lebanese love flowers, their colour and scent, and Beirut is draped in trees and bushes that smell like paradise.
As for the huddled masses from the powder of the bombed-out southern slums of Haret Hreik, I found hundreds of them yesterday, sitting under trees and lying on the parched grass beside an ancient fountain donated to the city of Beirut by the Ottoman Sultan Abdul-Hamid. How empires fall.
Far away, across the Mediterranean, two American helicopters from the USS Iwo Jima could be seen, heading through the mist and smoke towards the US embassy bunker complex at Awkar to evacuate more citizens of the American Empire. There was not a word from that same empire to help the people lying in the park, to offer them food or medical aid.
And across them all has spread a dark grey smoke that works its way through the entire city, the fires of oil terminals and burning buildings turning into a cocktail of sulphurous air that moves below our doors and through our windows. I smell it when I wake in the morning. Half the people of Beirut are coughing in this filth, breathing their own destruction as they contemplate their dead.
The anger that any human soul should feel at such suffering and loss was expressed so well by Lebanon's greatest poet, the mystic Khalil Gibran, when he wrote of the half million Lebanese who died in the 1916 famine, most of them residents of Beirut:
My people died of hunger, and he who
Did not perish from starvation was
Butchered with the sword;
They perished from hunger
In a land rich with milk and honey.
They died because the vipers and
Sons of vipers spat out poison into
The space where the Holy Cedars and
The roses and the jasmine breathe
Their fragrance.
And the sword continues to cut its way through Beirut. When part of an aircraft - perhaps the wing-tip of an F-16 hit by a missile, although the Israelis deny this - came streaking out of the sky over the eastern suburbs at the weekend, I raced to the scene to find a partly decapitated driver in his car and three Lebanese soldiers from the army's logistics unit. These are the tough, brave non-combat soldiers of Kfar Chim, who have been mending power and water lines these past six days to keep Beirut alive.
I knew one of them. "Hello Robert, be quick because I think the Israelis will bomb again but we'll show you everything we can." And they took me through the fires to show me what they could of the wreckage, standing around me to protect me.
And a few hours later, the Israelis did come back, as the men of the small logistics unit were going to bed, and they bombed the barracks and killed 10 soldiers, including those three kind men who looked after me amid the fires of Kfar Chim.
And why? Be sure - the Israelis know what they are hitting. That's why they killed nine soldiers near Tripoli when they bombed the military radio antennas. But a logistics unit? Men whose sole job was to mend electricity lines? And then it dawns on me. Beirut is to die. It is to be starved of electricity now that the power station in Jiyeh is on fire. No one is to be allowed to keep Beirut alive. So those poor men had to be liquidated.
Beirutis are tough people and are not easily moved. But at the end of last week, many of them were overcome by a photograph in their daily papers of a small girl, discarded like a broken flower in a field near Ter Harfa, her feet curled up, her hand resting on her torn blue pyjamas, her eyes - beneath long, soft hair - closed, turned away from the camera. She had been another "terrorist" target of Israel and several people, myself among them, saw a frightening similarity between this picture and the photograph of a Polish girl lying dead in a field beside her weeping sister in 1939.
I go home and flick through my files, old pictures of the Israeli invasion of 1982. There are more photographs of dead children, of broken bridges. "Israelis Threaten to Storm Beirut", says one headline. "Israelis Retaliate". "Lebanon At War". "Beirut Under Siege". "Massacre at Sabra and Chatila".
Yes, how easily we forget these earlier slaughters. Up to 1,700 Palestinians were butchered at Sabra and Chatila by Israel's proxy Christian militia allies in September of 1982 while Israeli troops - as they later testified to Israel's own court of inquiry - watched the killings. I was there. I stopped counting the corpses when I reached 100. Many of the women had been raped before being knifed or shot.
Yet when I was fleeing the bombing of Ghobeiri with my driver Abed last week, we swept right past the entrance of the camp, the very spot where I saw the first murdered Palestinians. And we did not think of them. We did not remember them. They were dead in Beirut and we were trying to stay alive in Beirut, as I have been trying to stay alive here for 30 years.
I am back on the sea coast when my mobile phone rings. It is an Israeli woman calling me from the United States, the author of a fine novel about the Palestinians. "Robert, please take care," she says. "I am so, so sorry about what is being done to the Lebanese. It is unforgivable. I pray for the Lebanese people, and the Palestinians, and the Israelis." I thank her for her thoughtfulness and the graceful, generous way she condemned this slaughter.
Then, on my balcony - a glance to check the location of the Israeli gunboat far out in the sea-smog - I find older clippings. This is from an English paper in 1840, when Beirut was a great Ottoman city. "Beyrouth" was the dateline. "Anarchy is now the order of the day, our properties and personal safety are endangered, no satisfaction can be obtained, and crimes are committed with impunity. Several Europeans have quitted their houses and suspended their affairs, in order to find protection in more peaceable countries."
On my dining-room wall, I remember, there is a hand-painted lithograph of French troops arriving in Beirut in 1842 to protect the Christian Maronites from the Druze. They are camping in the Jardin des Pins, which will later become the site of the French embassy where, only a few hours ago, I saw French men and women registering for their evacuation. And outside the window, I hear again the whisper of Israeli jets, hidden behind the smoke that now drifts 20 miles out to sea.
Fairouz, the most popular of Lebanese singers, was to have performed at this year's Baalbek festival, cancelled now like all Lebanon's festivals of music, dance, theatre and painting. One of her most popular songs is dedicated to her native city:
To Beirut - peace to Beirut with all my heart
And kisses - to the sea and clouds,
To the rock of a city that looks like an old sailor's face.
From the soul of her people she makes wine,
From their sweat, she makes bread and jasmine.
So how did it come to taste of smoke and fire?



rolf
User currently offlineBCNGRO From Andorra, joined Oct 2004, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4309 times:

The UN observers were Austrian, Canadian, Chinese and Finnish nationals. According to UN sources the attack was "apparently deliberate".

Now I wonder what will be the response from those countries but I guess it will be severe as this looks like a very serious issue to me...

[Edited 2006-07-26 01:33:00]


At the bus station, buses stop. At the train station, trains stop. At my desk, I have a work station.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 8):
Not a requiem here,

Just FYI, the essay I read was called "Rent a Warzone".

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 9):
I guess it will be severe

Severe? Like calling Olmert and telling him his military is being naughty?

[Edited 2006-07-26 01:38:00]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20497 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4290 times:

An Israeli official was just on CNN calling Annan on the carpet for his statement, and saying it could have been Hezbollah. I sat there in disbelief. Since when did Hezbollah get aerial bombardment capability?


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

Westicles, I think he was saying the UN post could have been a Hezbollah post. "Military intelligence" at its best; I'm pretty sure Israel was briefed very cautiously on the locations of UN posts.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
it could have been Hezbollah.

Just what everyone expected to hear - everything that's been bombed in Lebanon "could have been Hezbollah". "Oops, it was an ambulance... BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN HEZBOLLAH! YOU SUPPORT TERRORISTS!" That's just as insane as Hezbollah itself.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20497 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):
I think he was saying the UN post could have been a Hezbollah post.

I think he was saying that Hezbollah did the attack on the UN post, not Israel. He was pretty pissed off, so it was hard to make it out, but even Wolf Blitzer was standing there with his jaw on the floor.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
I think he was saying that Hezbollah did the attack on the UN post, not Israel.

Well, you saw it on TV so you have the better perspective on this particular report.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSonic99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

Quoting BCNGRO (Reply 9):
Now I wonder what will be the response from those countries but I guess it will be severe as this looks like a very serious issue to me...

Well, the Prime Minister of Canada (Stephen Harper) stated that he unconditionally supports Israel and thinks that their response is "measured". Even after the 8 Canadians were killed by an Israeli airstrike last week, he (Mr. Harper) refuses to change his stance towards Israel.

That's causing a BIG, BIG problem for many Canadians as they DO NOT like any Prime Minister to take sides like this in a conflict in any way.

Fortunately for Canadians, Mr. Harper leads a minority government which may fall (perhaps due to his weird foreign policy) once Parliament reconvenes following the summer break.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20497 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Just to update, at the top of the hour Wolf Blitzer gave a summary of his interview from a few minutes ago. It was the Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. who "angrily" called U.N. Sec. Genl. Koffi Annan "deplorable" for his statement blaming the deaths of the U.N. observers on Israel.

I'm sure we'll hear more on this shortly.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):

I can't help but think the Olmert government has gone totally berserk and is doing everything to get everyone who might report on the war out of southern Lebanon, for reasons I want to think about even less. Israel deserves a better government; even Sharon turned out to be less of a "hawk" in his later days.

It was his govt. which said they want to "turn back the clock 20 years" for Lebanon...looks like they are achieving this..

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 5):
What are the chances of that though?

.01%

Quoting Sonic99 (Reply 15):
Well, the Prime Minister of Canada (Stephen Harper) stated that he unconditionally supports Israel and thinks that their response is "measured". Even after the 8 Canadians were killed by an Israeli airstrike last week, he (Mr. Harper) refuses to change his stance towards Israel.

Maybe that jerk-off should send his family off to Lebanon....we'll see what his reactions are then.....

But this isn't anything new by the Israeli Government...they have been targeting innocent Palestinians for years....


as well as....potentially using cluster bombs as well as phosphorus-laced bombs..if true, then they are a sad pathetic excuse for human beings...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Koffi Annan has the audacity to say that this regrettable attack on U.N. peacekeepers was intentional.

It's always Israel's fault right Kofi?

What a disgrace the head of the U.N. has become. Powerless and impotent.



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 18):
Koffi Annan has the audacity to say that this regrettable attack on U.N. peacekeepers was intentional.

It's always Israel's fault right Kofi?

israel also bombed a UN refuge in 1997, killing about 100 refugees.
A UN investigation concluded that the shelling could not have been a technical error. An amnesty report came out with a similar conclusion.

You can look it in wikipedia under "Qana shelling"

There were reports of 2-3 hezbollah fighters hiding in there, but still.. that's not a valid reason to shell and UN refuge.

[Edited 2006-07-26 03:45:14]


rolf
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20497 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 18):
What a disgrace the head of the U.N. has become. Powerless and impotent.

Aren't you doing the exact same thing you're accusing another of doing? Drawing conclusions before all the facts are in?

It appears so. I know there's a word for that ::snap fingers:: but it escapes me at the moment. Right on the tip of my tongue it is, too.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
If this is true, then I hope the US/UK have their airforces alert to stop these Israeli attacks.

Are you kidding me? We are Israel's bitch! We're whores, man. They run this show, not us. Hell will exist and then freeze over before that happens.


FSP


User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5854 posts, RR: 40
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 18):
Koffi Annan has the audacity to say that this regrettable attack on U.N. peacekeepers was intentional.

how the hell can you say that? 14 shells were dropped on the post, if it was 1 you could claim an accident, 14...seriously, what planet are you on? It's either deliberate or the IDF has some very, incompetent people among it's forces...take your pick.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 18):
It's always Israel's fault right Kofi?

in this case yes.

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 18):
What a disgrace the head of the U.N. has become. Powerless and impotent.

if the US stopped vetoing everything then maybe the UN would be more effective.


"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long-established and clearly marked U.N. post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that U.N. positions would be spared Israeli fire," he said in a statement.

"Furthermore, General Alain Pelligrini, the U.N. force commander in south Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular U.N. position from attack."

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/25/mideast.main/index.html



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 21):

Are you kidding me? We are Israel's bitch! We're whores, man. They run this show, not us. Hell will exist and then freeze over before that happens.

Well the US gives to israel billions of $ of aid (military and financial).



rolf
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 21):
Are you kidding me? We are Israel's bitch! We're whores, man. They run this show, not us. Hell will exist and then freeze over before that happens.

You keep saying this in thread after thread but don't back it up with anything. It is much easier to say the above crap than deal with the difficult, real, serious issues involved here......


25 Post contains images JCS17 : Apparently, the Israeli's didn't offer Kofi enough money under the table to keep quiet.
26 QR332 : Amazingly written article... I love Robert Fisk's articles, and agree with many of his view - I think he writes for the Guardian, though. And in resp
27 Falcon84 : Since when is Kofi Annan an expert on air raids or bombings? I didn't know he had so much knowledge. On another front, don't you just love the lynch-m
28 AGM100 : Actually I am very glad about this , can you imagine that group actually having power. Why doesnt the UN go to Sudan and fix that other nightmare?? O
29 AeroWesty : I did not write what was attributed to me in Reply #28.
30 BA : Excellent article, thank you. I love Robert Fisk's articles. He writes for the Independent.
31 Levent : That's a ridiculous statement and you know it. The issue discussed in this thread is not the Israeli attacks on civilians in Lebanon nor the Hezbolla
32 Post contains images A380 : Good job Stephen Harper! That's what Israel rewarded Canada for unconditionedly supporting Israel.
33 Post contains links BA : Annan is pissed... A crisis in the U.N. is brewing following charges by the Kofi Annan that Israel 'deliberately' attacked a UNIFIL post, killing four
34 Post contains images Bravo45 : I bet these UN observers were helping Hezbollah.
35 NAV20 : Annan will have had a report from the commander of the UN forces. Dead right. I'm no expert, but part of my otherwise misspent youth entailed messing
36 Post contains images Sonic99 : Ah there he is - welcome to the discussion! Oh yeah. Falcon - look.... a critique of Israel's policy DOES NOT mean an automatic appreciation of or sy
37 Post contains images AGM100 : The situation on the ground in SL has changed from a search and destroy air campaign to a close air support operation. Troops on the ground facing th
38 NAV20 : I don't know whether it was the C-in-C or not, AGM100. But I'm sure in my own mind that SOMEONE gave the order. According to our radio, the UN post h
39 Baroque : "They and whose army" is a phrase that comes to mind. Let slip the dogs of war and cry "Havoc".
40 Baroque : A huge thanks for posting that. Some weeks ago, Fiskie was interviewed on our TV and there appeared to be something happening off-camera that made it
41 Baroque : Just goes to prove that Ribbentrop and Comical Ali live on. It was a trifle amazing. Next thing is the UN staff will have bombed themselves in a misg
42 Baroque : If he does, you would hope he is not the only leader to come a gutser over this mess. Interesting that Holy Tony seems to be trying to find reverse g
43 Post contains links NAV20 : Looks as if the Israelis are trying to reduce the risk of shells and bombs going astray by using 'precision weapons'. It must take terrific technology
44 AeroWesty : There are a lot of things I can understand about what's happening in Lebanon, but this isn't one of them. I can understand blowing up the bank buildi
45 Clipperhawaii : Annan says the attack was an "apparently deliberate targeting" of the UNIFIL post. So Kofi, you have all the facts yourself at this point and it is "a
46 Scbriml : Who exactly is supporting terrorists? Show me one post. Falcon, do you really believe that criticism of Israel is tacit support of terrorism? That's
47 OD720 : He probably got the report from the UNIFIL , who are on the ground monitoring the situation carefully. They were the ones who confirmed that Maroun e
48 Baroque : There is an explanation and I think Nav20 in reply 44 gave most of it. As to motives, ah, there it becomes slightly difficult. Short sighted is one o
49 Tu204 : It really is a pity that some countries are headed by idiots that have no regard for the lives of it's own citizens. It truly is.
50 NAV20 : According to our radio, the Deputy Chief of Staff of UNIFIL just said that the UN post was hit repeatedly, throughout the day, by artillery shells whi
51 ME AVN FAN : As sad and regrettable this matter with that UN-base is, and whether it really was intentional or just gross-negligence, it must have become clear to
52 Post contains images Rammstein : [very_angry_response] If these news will be verified to be correct, IMHO Israelis can all go to hell with their arrogant government. Enough is enough
53 Falcon84 : Or not intended at all. I know the picture you want to paint, but that is a possibility, too, ME AVN FAN. But it does ruin the image you try to paint
54 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Spot on. Well Said.
55 ME AVN FAN : I do NOT want to "paint a picture", and quite clearly indicated BOTH possibilities. You simply are picking a particular aspect and ignore the real as
56 Post contains images Rammstein : I really hope that it was not intented.
57 ME AVN FAN : Few "on here" want Israel destroyed, and even fewer turn a blind eye to Hizbullah, a most detestable reactionary conservative restrictive fundamentli
58 QR332 : First of all, you have the nerve to come into this thread with your double standards about condemning attacks on Israeli cities - well, buddy, practi
59 Post contains links Aloges : The people at the UN post were in contact with the Israelis, begging to be spared. The Israelis didn't care and still bombed the post, killing four U
60 Sbworcs : I am quite insulted that just because I happen to believe that Israel AND Hezbollah are both at fauly I am branded as someone who supports terrorists
61 Klaus : If it is confirmed that the UN post was in fact repeatedly shelled and bombed and shelled again, the IDF must have been either grossly incompetent (wh
62 CO7e7 : Zero to None .... which means there's no chance! I agree with you 100% I really hope there's a way to put an end to this, but neither side is willing
63 Rammstein : Let's put it more simple: if it is confirmed, IDF must have been either grossly incompetent or they are simply criminals.
64 Frequentflyer : Stupid, really stu-pid post. Hezb. and IDF are each to blame when they target the wrong guys. Trying to make a case so that we think you are deprived
65 Post contains links David b. : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm Don't tell me they didn't know.
66 Stormbringer : No, it's just that some people are not capable of engaging in an intelligent debate without using bully tactics like name calling, and false accusati
67 Post contains links ZakHH : There is a more detailed report from German Spiegel Online, unfortunately German only. Brief summary: 6 hours before the lethal hit, a first Israeli
68 Klaus : Under the weight of the evidence, why exactly is that "ridiculous"?
69 Post contains links NAV20 : Stormbringer, with respect, that's.......well, I have to say 'crap.' Modern weapons tend to go where they're aimed. If they weren't shelling the UN p
70 Stormbringer : I should have probably worded that better (6am and been working all night). What I was alluding to is that they were being reckless by not properly i
71 Post contains links Sean377 : That will be a waste of time... British peace activist was 'intentionally killed' The ten-strong jury at the inquest into the death of Mr Hurndall, a
72 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Fair enough, Stormbringer - sorry I snapped. But 'reckless disregard' that resulted in someone's death, even in a military context, even on active ser
73 Sean377 : Exactly
74 Gman94 : The first shell would be an accident the next 9, the last of which was a precision guided missile each followed by a call to the IDF to stop firing at
75 OzGlobal : Here's the report. From it the attacks are "apparently deliberate", wouldn't you say? If not, what's YOUR bias?
76 ME AVN FAN : suppose they hope that now all UN Observers get withdrawn for security reasons
77 OzGlobal : Hezbollah are a terrorist organization that should be neutralized, but the US always turns a blind eye to Israels state terrorism. Isn't that also "s
78 Sean377 : Yep, Israel had better keep kissing Uncle Sam's butt. The moment it stops, Israel will cease to exist.
79 RJpieces : What kind of crap is this? Who tells you this nonsense? Israel fought all of their MAJOR wars on mostly French equipment--the US-Israel military rela
80 AGM100 : No, it is because the goal of Israels enemy is their extinction , and they clearly state it.Support for Hezzbollah is to support this policy. War is
81 OzGlobal : The 'kissing' seems to work primarily the other way around and is based on who owns the white house through campaign funding and other power bases in
82 RichardPrice : Maybe the 41 US vetoes in the UN of resolutions critical of Israeli actions in the middle east? If the US wasnt there to veto, Israel would be under
83 Post contains links Baroque : Well that pretty much summarizes the case for it being deliberate. On the Aus ABC tonight we saw an Israeli official start the dissembling from the b
84 RJpieces : Not quite true, but what you are getting at is true. Bible belt 'red states' support Israel based on simple theology that God blesses those who bless
85 Sean377 : I guess the news gets reported differently over here.
86 Frequentflyer : My choice is certainly not to support the errors of Israel at all costs. That's no less clear than your position. See, I am trying to think too. You
87 AGM100 : UH O now its going to get ugly. RJ you are absolutely correct . And the Islamic terrorist have misjudged this silent majority of Americans. To put it
88 Baroque : Sean would you mind if I edited that for accuracy. Suggested version: "I guess the news gets reported over here." Then I debated with myself as to wh
89 Post contains links Damirc : Do not forget Rachel Corrie. http://www.rachelcorrie.org Read about how Palestinians live in her e-mails here ... http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/St
90 Sean377 : Be my guest. Is there room for me? The flack has been coming in pretty heavy!
91 Banco : Not the BBC. I'm not sure Fisk has ever worked for the BBC. He's the Middle East correspondent for the Independent newspaper, and neither newspaper n
92 Sonic99 : AHhhhhhh! Finally I think I'm "coming around" and seeing the perspective!! And NOW I think I'm beginning to understand Falcon and all the rest of em.
93 Frequentflyer : Am not impressed the slightest by such a weak argumentation anyways (!) God has given us a brain, I chose to use mine.
94 Mt99 : Can you expand on some of these reasons. I am not as informed as i should be. Thanks[Edited 2006-07-26 17:37:15]
95 AGM100 : Fair enough , thats about as clear as you can make it. So you in fact are siding with whom I see as the enemy. And why not level everything Shia in t
96 RJpieces : If the US wasn't there, there would BE NO UN. Even if the US disappeared in some theoretical situation, another country would likely fill the gap and
97 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : TWO ways indeed. One way asking for money and weapons and telling the donors what to do, and one way sending money and weapons and assuring the donat
98 Post contains images NAV20 : Too right, as we say here. Nothing's changed.   23.27 I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and
99 ME AVN FAN : - Where did you extract that amazing text ? details please ....
100 Baroque : Please have a bit of a check as to why you have a "war against Islamofascism" as you put it. OBL may use the Arab problems as an excuse, but the US d
101 AerospaceFan : I'm interested in your solution, if any, to the problem of facing an Iraq that was seeking weapons of mass destruction. Even though various disputes
102 MattRB : Desire != Possession Which, if you'll recall, was the precise reason for the invasion. But this is a discussion for another thread, not here & now.
103 AerospaceFan : True, but I do believe that North Korea desired their weapons prior to possessing them. Agreed. I think we should all understand that Iraq is not par
104 Baroque : Without going into a huge palaver about it, Hans Blix might have been a figure of fun in the US, but he and his predecessors seem to have been 100% (
105 Post contains links AeroWesty : Exodus 23. http://www.bartleby.com/108/02/23.html
106 808TWA : I originally posted this in the other thread about Israel nuking Lebanon, while I meant to post it here...sorry if you read it already: **************
107 RJpieces : Speaking of that, has anyone seen the commercial urging Christians to send money to Israel during this emergency? I just saw one on Fox...
108 Sonic99 : Well, regardless of biblical history - going back to the original topic at hand... It is now becoming painfully evident that Israeli forces attacked t
109 RJpieces : How is anything you posted proof that it was both deliberate and methodical??????????????? Don't become a lawyer.
110 Falcon84 : Amazing, RJ, he can tell that sitting in Canada, isn't it?
111 Post contains images Windshear : 1) Hmm you think it is amazing? Or did you just like the kid's comparison of G-ds words to Abraham with current events? 2) Should I break out my favo
112 Mt99 : Were are you sitting that you can tell that is wasnt a deliberate and methodical? Just saying..
113 Beaucaire : As more and more details become available regarding this incident,it appears that a french general supervising the area has contacted the Israeli Liai
114 RJpieces : Again, what you said is not proof that it was deliberate. It wouldn't last in court for a second. Based on common sense (Why would Israel deliberatel
115 Post contains images Windshear : Oh and about the situation in Southern Libanon, here is a before picture of a UN outpost... You make up your minds: In my opinion blue and yellow don'
116 Gman94 : So what your implying is that the UN staff on the ground in Lebanon are lying about contacting the IDF 10 times to get them to stop the shelling arou
117 MattRB : Ask the IDF - though I doubt you'll get a straight answer. It'd be easier to accept this as a simple mistake if the IDF hadn't been shelling the posi
118 Post contains links Rolfen : Israel - is a developped, wealthy country - gets billions of aid from the US every year. http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/US_Aid_to_Israel.h
119 Falcon84 : Where are you that you can tell it was?
120 Petertenthije : Would it not? If I where to get a knife and accidentally stab someone once, I would get a minor sentence. Community service if the stabbed person sur
121 Mt99 : No where really - thats the the point. I am not claiming it was either or - and seem like you are certian that it wasnt- just as much as RJ deserves
122 Beaucaire : ...plus a couple of hundert millions from Germany- but that is a well kept secret....
123 RJpieces : Exactly, yet that hasn't stopped everyone here from rushing to condemn Israel and claim it was intentional when logic dictates otherwise.
124 Stormbringer : Yes, and the pilot was brought before a court martial, and punished by the USAF. I hope the IDF can act as responsible as the USAF did in ensuring th
125 Rolfen : So you have this rachel corrie american activist killed in palestine Then this british peace activist And qana shelling in 97 Then the 8 canadian dea
126 Post contains links QANTAS077 : a little unrelated but it's to do with the IDF and there tactics.... The Israeli army has been accused of using Palestinian civilians as human shields
127 ZOTAN : It was Hezbollah that started this whole thing. You guys wouldn't be in this situation if those morons never crossed the border. Stop putting the bla
128 LY744 : It's a disgrace, no other way to describe it. But those of you who think this was deliberate are seriously delusional. Unfortunately, considering the
129 Ant72LBA : Perhaps this seems pedantic but I don't think there can be any doubt that the target (that turned out to be a UN bunker) was deliberately targeted but
130 Soyuzavia : The Americans are in town? Note to Canadians: GET OUT OF LEBANON!!! The Chinese Embassy bombing in Belgrade was no 'mistake'. Old maps? C'mon!! The C
131 Post contains links WrenchBender : Welcome to my respected users list, I totally agree and could not have said it better. Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, of the PPCLI in his mid fortie
132 Rolfen : Because the Shia are people. If you come down here I'll present you some of my shia friends, then I'll walk you through some public parks where shia
133 LY744 : Did Venik tell you this? LY744.
134 NAV20 : I can see what you're getting at, Ant72LBA, but it couldn't happen that way. For a start, battery (barrage) fire would be out of the question in this
135 Baroque : OK, 808TWA, I have just about perfected the plan to keep all of those in, what is worrying me is how to keep a superpower out. Any design help gratef
136 Post contains links NAV20 : And now the consequences........ Australian soldiers are being withdrawn from South Lebanon. The step is stated to be 'as a consequence of the continu
137 Baroque : What with Friedman commenting that Rice must be off her rocker to think that nations will rush to provide a peacekeeping force and remembering Tricky
138 ME AVN FAN : - A) I like the comparison with current events B) Amazing is that the Bible uses the same "nice" phrases as the Quran. It was the style in those time
139 Post contains images Rammstein : Very clever, let's all send money to Israel witch is a very poor country, instead of Lebanon, where all people are so rich and evil that they have go
140 AerospaceFan : A side issue, but important nonetheless: Has the UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon truly been keeping the peace? If so, perhaps it is better that it b
141 Rammstein : Probably UN forces aren't doing much about peacekeeping, but at least they have an independent point of view and they can report what is going on in
142 AerospaceFan : Indeed, they can observe. But I don't know what reports they've been giving, or their value, and surely such reports can generated by other means. I
143 Levent : ... and thus the need to take them out before they reveal too much?
144 Rammstein : Good point, Levent.
145 Danny : It was not a first time Israel attacked UN forces so no matter what they say i think it was intentional.
146 Post contains links OD720 : Check this out: U.S. Blocks Security Council Statement Condemning Israel's Attack on U.N. Post in Khiam: http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Ne...m&94F4
147 Post contains images Rammstein : " target=_blank>http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Ne...1FC1F From the text: So US thinks that attacking unarmed UN personnel is O.K. Wonderful. How mu
148 Levent : It's another way of saying: "We can do whatever we want, and Israel too because they're our buddies. The rest of you, shut up and do as we say. Whoev
149 Post contains links NAV20 : More information here. Apparently the post concerned is not part of UNIFIL, it is one of four which were established back in 1948 to monitor an earlie
150 ME AVN FAN : what is needed is NOT "corridors" but simply a stop of the attacks of Israel against any targets north of the Litani River, and a lifting of all bloc
151 AerospaceFan : Thank you for the information. If the UN had been able to act to prevent hostilities between Lebanon and Israel, the utility of these observations wo
152 ME AVN FAN : Quite to the CONTRARY, they should pull IN immediately, with credible force, and not just a few "observers". A real "peacekeeping force" canNOT be ba
153 Post contains links AerospaceFan : I might add that I find that the fact that UN observers have been killed is most troubling and that Israel should provide a detailed explanation for i
154 Rammstein : I agree completely. Now it's time to put a strong international force of both observers and armed personnel. An EU-joint military force would be perf
155 AerospaceFan : Under what authority would the EU deploy forces there? Let's assume that Lebanon invites the intercession of the EU. Let's say that Israel opposes it
156 NAV20 : They were (and are) there to 'monitor' as well, AerospaceFan. The Israelis currently seem to be bogged down in a stalemate against a guerrilla enemy
157 Rammstein : Lebanon is an independent sovreign State. If Lebanon invites EU (and they already did), Israel can say what they want and if they don't "approve" the
158 Post contains links AerospaceFan : An interesting resource that I just found concerning the possible missions of the EU military (such as it is) may be found at the following: http://ww
159 AerospaceFan : Israel then might not be held to account for attacks on EU forces, since it would seem that by the laws of war, depending on what the EU forces do, t
160 AerospaceFan : The land war is only a few days old, and Israel has made some advances and seized territory to this point, so I wouldn't call it a "stalemate" at thi
161 Post contains links and images Mrmeangenes : Then there's this: http://insidestraight.typepad.com/th...aight/2006/07/canadian_genera.html
162 AerospaceFan : Interesting link, Mrmeangenes. Further thoughts on the intercession of the EU: It seems to me that the following two points could be made: 1. If the E
163 ME AVN FAN : Whether E.U., U.N. or NATO, the Israelis have to be included in the consultation. And if they demand that it should NOT be a French, but a British or
164 Post contains links AeroWesty : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5217438.stm The memory of the Holocaust is fuelling a debate in Germany over involvement in a Lebanon peace force,
165 AerospaceFan : Granted. Yet, what's stopping, for example, France? Italy? Britain? (This is aside from the question of whether Israel has permitted humanitarian eff
166 Stormbringer : Might it be better for countries like Brazil, Chile, Japan, or South Korea who have little interest or historical baggage in the region to step in? Ma
167 Clogman : Listen to yourself guys. You sound like a kindergarden class or so. So Falcon. Just because I dont support Israel in this case doesnt make me a terro
168 RJpieces : Yes, I'd say it does. I'd love to see it but I have serious doubts...Any force that is deployed to South Lebanon will have to FIGHT Hezbollah and dis
169 Post contains images Windshear : heh buddy the Qur'an does not use the same quotes, they have far worse verses, and they are inciting. How on earth can you use the words said to Abra
170 Post contains images Windshear : This sure looks much like something you criticized Falcon for writing... yes well it is most unfortunate for Libanon and its progressive citizens, bu
171 Stormbringer : Firing madly into a crowd and killing innocent people cannot be justified by claiming you were aiming at a criminal.
172 Frequentflyer : Another example of UN impotence. UN-mandated General Pelligrini himself said yesterday that unifil is not adapted any more. That area of the world nee
173 Post contains links Windshear : and this is what you percieve Israel to be doing? Making up "excuses" to kill people? There are many in Lebanon! The UN have always been prevented in
174 Clogman : I'm not the one calling everyone who doesnt agree with Israeal terrorist supporters. Look what I wrote afterwards. You should see it from both sides.
175 Post contains images Windshear : No that is right, but the quote you posted, and the quote from you I wrote, are very similar, that is all. Yes you are right, very right. Boaz.
176 Stormbringer : No, being reckless and irresponsible in their response (I repeat for about the tenth time)
177 Post contains images TheSorcerer : I somehow do doubt that Hizbollah was using the UN outpost for communications. Another thing, i thought the missile into the chinese embassy was on p
178 Windshear : Ok well that can be debated... But if you are a bit edgy over having to explain your self, then read below what you wrote, again my emphasis Boaz.
179 Sonic99 : Indeed. That's a big problem for the UN - support or respect for which is villified, particularly by the Bush administration, even though with a prop
180 ME AVN FAN : the US-forces simply were US-forces and NOT an international peace force and therefore by many perceived as an invasion-force. I in spite of some neg
181 Post contains links Sonic99 : Oh, and here's another very interesting reason why the US (under Bush) refused to support UNIFIL (2002) - his administration viewed support for UNIFIL
182 Post contains images NAV20 : I suspect that the USA will experience great difficulty in assembling any kind of UN or NATO force for this purpose. Partly that's a matter of public
183 ME AVN FAN : no, it was and is LEBANON that was/is targeted. Beirut Airport and Beirut Seaport and the highways out from Beirut to the airport and to Sa'ida, that
184 AerospaceFan : I agree that scale of devastation is horrific, and any civilian losses are tragic in nature. I don't know anyone who would argue otherwise. I think t
185 Semsem : The BBC is suspected to be antisemitic and bigoted as their reporting is traditionally one sided and hostile. What happened is a tragic accident and t
186 ME AVN FAN : BBC is known to be objective, but fairly often is rather pro-Israeli No, it was based on the statements of that Irish officer who phoned up the Israe
187 Frequentflyer : If you follow that line, then it should have been the case for the same kinda bombing that occurred at the French barracks ("Drakkar") at about the s
188 Post contains links AerospaceFan : It's interesting that many in the Democratic Party, including former Secretary of State Albright, seem to disagree. Thus, in some ways, the position
189 Semsem : MEAVN when Hezbollah a Lebanese organisation allies itself with Iran that has threatened "genocide" against Israel and when a Lebanese organisation th
190 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : sorry, but where/what/when was "Drakkar" ? - That way, you can justify almost anything. Please advise a day beforehand if the USA or Israel want to a
191 Post contains links and images AerospaceFan : In a way, I agree! But I think that one also ought to read about the positions of certain other Democrats, such as the frequent Bush critic, U.S. Sen
192 Post contains images Frequentflyer : At about the same time and place (Beirut) of the bombing of the US barracks, the French troops barracks got the same treatment... their HQ was names
193 Baroque : So the IDF is a bit accident prone and those who are killed are always asking for it. Well, that will be a nice encouraging background if Israel is se
194 AerospaceFan : Assuming that Israel did not provide this warning, I agree that the UN outpost should have been told to evacuate before any targeting of adjacent are
195 AndesSMF : If you check the web site for UNIFIL (UN mission in Lebanon) press releases, you will notice that they have had many close calls for weeks already. Wh
196 LY744 : It kind of comes with the territory when you spend YEARS upon YEARS fighting an enemy that constantly and shamelessly hides behind civilians. LY744.
197 Frequentflyer : I agree. But then what do you do? Do you kill them altogether?
198 WSOY : The commander of the Finnish UN force reported in the news here that he was personally present when the Israelis were asked (or "ordered", he actuall
199 ME AVN FAN : - A) the UN observers are to stay even in difficult circumstances. They do so in Korea, and do so in other places. They are NOT just to be gotten out
200 Post contains links Rolfen : Canadian General: UN Observer Post Used By Hizballah Retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie was interviewed on CBC radio, and had some very in
201 Post contains links Rolfen : Canadian General: UN Observer Post Used By Hizballah Retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie was interviewed on CBC radio, and had some very in
202 ME AVN FAN : that Hizballah is using dirty tricks is hardly surprising. And that artillery-fire and airforce-bombing can go wrong by 5 to 10 meters is obvious. I
203 TheSorcerer : What i find puzzling is that the IDF bombed an outpost, a fixed position AFAIK. Dominic
204 Post contains links AndesSMF : Now direct confirmation from the UN that Hezbollah is using UN positions for cover. http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr011.pdf
205 Klaus : No surprise there - and still no justification whatsoever to summarily shell and bomb the UN positions.
206 Post contains links AndesSMF : How do you deal with this then? http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr08.pdf
207 Sonic99 : Don't deflect the original question by asking another question - answer and then ask.
208 Post contains links QANTAS077 : UNSC has failed to condemn the attack on the observer post, of course the US said it will refuse to agree to anything that criticised Israel. Security
209 AndesSMF : Then you answer the question. It is really simple, Hezbollah is using the UN, as well as civilians, as cover when they fire their missiles. What is I
210 Sonic99 : Hey - be a gentleman or don't bother posting.
211 Stormbringer : And so the story concludes with Israel doing whatever it wants without consequenses. I will gladly take back those words if the impossible happens and
212 ME AVN FAN : This is an allegation which may be right or wrong. The fact simply is that A) very often the UN posts are in strategically interesting locations, als
213 Sonic99 : No there isn't - absolutely right. By the same token Israel doesn't have the right to destroy the viability and stability of a neighbouring state (or
214 AndesSMF : Please, first of all, Klaus didn't ask a question. He stated his lack of surprise at the fact that Hezbollah is using the UN a cover, then stating th
215 Post contains images Klaus : Nice recap. The point is that any military operation will have to be justifiable. And without warning attacking and killing innocent bystanders, espe
216 Rolfen : True, it has been reported that Hezbollah had been firing from within 150 meters from the UN compound. Still, I dont think that absolves the IDF, the
217 ME AVN FAN : but it "opens" the way to the interpretation that it was gross negligence and carelessness and NOT intention. I just don't understand why the Israeli
218 Sonic99 : If referring to IDF shelling the Qana UN base: To keep things in perspective, it was also hardly a reason for the IDF to use proximity fuses on the a
219 NAV20 : Oddly enough, yes, AndesSMF. Any army sets (or should set) 'rules of engagement' for any task - and one that is commonly applied is that you are not
220 AndesSMF : Not always successfully, google 'Bloody Sunday'. "The Peace Process was also hastened by a series of disastrous IRA attacks, including the killing of
221 Post contains images Windshear : No, please stick to what I said... Hizbollah have targeted the UN before, with kidnappings and threats, that was why. Ok There was said, that Iran wi
222 Sonic99 : Sure! And I wrote the main reason why the UN observers and peacekeepers couldn't do anything about that - they could never protect themselves from th
223 Baroque : I presume you realise that you just wrote that the IDF killed the UN observers on purpose. Do you stand by that? It is a very damning admission IMHO.
224 Baroque : As usual, an excellent summary Klaus. The suborning of the UN processes through the US acting, often in a short sighted manner on behalf of Israel wh
225 Post contains images NAV20 : It doesn't even observe that one, Baroque (from Resolution 181):- "Establishing in each State a legislative body elected by universal suffrage and by
226 Post contains links Baroque : A most pertinent set of comments Nav20. I was a bit doubtful to introduce KvC but you present an excellent case to look at the basics. And he was ver
227 Semsem : Rolfen accidents happen. NATO bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. What happened at the UN compound a few years ago was horrific I agree. But the b
228 Baroque : Semsem, dropping about nine large calibre artillery shells on a clearly marked post over a period of hours, followed by a dirty great bomb does not me
229 LY744 : You've got major problems mate. How much clearer can I be when I'm putting your own words right next to my reply. Do you seriously not understand tha
230 Post contains links Baroque : That was the quote and that was my reply. There were two propositions in my statement and your reply "It kind of comes with the territory when you sp
231 ME AVN FAN : no doubt about this. and even less doubts about the fact that a Hezbollah base was quite near to that UN-base. The Israelis however were advised 5 ti
232 Rammstein : Yes, good idea, let's start a 2nd holocaust against Lebanon people... People never learn from their history...
233 LY744 : If the word "always" doesn't imply a pattern over a period of time I don't know what does. Oh yeah, why? LY744.
234 Frequentflyer : OK, it might have been an accident. If it is, it is incompetence. (Yes, I know the enemy is tough to find but 10 phone calls is 10 warnings) If it is
235 AndesSMF : Telling moment, so now you admit that Hez and Hamas are terrorists, but they are excused. Israel should have been more careful, but Hezbollah should
236 ME AVN FAN : terrorists? in the West, the horse gets saddled from the tail. Both movements first of all simply are fundamentalist conservative restrictive extreme
237 Post contains images Falcon84 : Everything they do is predicated and focused on terrorism against Israel. But that was a colorful mis-description of them. It was entertaining.
238 Sonic99 : Hmmm.. easy to laugh Falcon, but why don't you explain why there would such elements that are willing to do what they do. Do explain - the fundamenta
239 ME AVN FAN : No, much of what they do is, on the positive side in social services, welfare and healthcare, and on the negative side in their wanting to introduce
240 Baroque : You could have added MAF, that not only Hamas and Hez believe in extreme actions (force) but also the White House seems to think of that first, secon
241 LY744 : Owning hospitals and schools comes in awfully handy when you have a lot of hardware to hide... and a bunch of impressionable western reportres runnin
242 AerospaceFan : I'm currently watching live CNN International coverage of a recent Israeli bombing of a four-story building in which dozens of Lebanese civilians, inc
243 ME AVN FAN : a fairly generalizing allegation of minimal substance. It may have happened, but to claim that their hospitals and schools are just established to hi
244 Baroque : It means I am ignoring your posts. If you reply in an appropriate fashion without using abusive language to Post 230, that policy could change. SA.
245 LY744 : Ok now that I'm done rolling on the floor, please do tell me which of these words was the most abusive for your taste: If the word "always" doesn't i
246 NAV20 : Didn't matter at the time. AerospaceFan. As it happens, at the time of Dresden, I wasn't all that bothered; in fact, I didn't actually hear about it
247 AerospaceFan : Thank you for the contribution, NAV20. It does seem that at the time, it was as set forth in the classic phrase, "inter arma silent leges" -- "in war
248 NAV20 : Funnily enough, though, AerospaceFan, at the time, a lot of airmen really tried to identify and hit military targets. As a very small child I was out
249 AerospaceFan : Life can be deeply ironic. I appreciate your sense of humor. And in this connection, I think that American pursuit of peace in the Middle East all th
250 Post contains links Garnetpalmetto : In order to prevent a lot of duplication, and in order to prevent the arguments spiralling out of control, we have decided to create four official thr
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