Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
US Forces In Iraq Falling Back On Baghdad?  
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

Must admit, this rather reminds me of the famous Spanish Civil War communique - "Our glorious troops continue to advance without yielding a foot of ground."

At first sight it reads as if Dubya is reinforcing Baghdad - but later paragraphs make it clear that the 'reinforcements' will be troops withdrawn from other parts of Iraq - presumably because Baghdad itself is close to slipping out of control.

"President Bush said yesterday that he will send more U.S. forces and equipment to Baghdad as part of a fresh strategy to put down rising sectarian violence, abandoning a six-week-old operation that failed to pacify the strife-torn Iraqi capital and opening what aides called an unexpected new phase of the war.

"The additional U.S. forces for Baghdad, which could total in the thousands, would come from elsewhere in Iraq, but the deteriorating security situation seemed to all but doom the prospect for significant troop withdrawals before the November congressional elections.

"The Bush administration is trying to respond to the shifting nature of the war. Where once U.S. forces were focused primarily on anti-U.S. foreign fighters and Sunni insurgents, today they confront a more complicated situation in which de facto militias are targeting Iraqis, in some cases aided by Iraqi police forces commanded by the Shiite-led Interior Ministry.

"Military officials said the U.S. contingent brought into Baghdad could be as large as a brigade, which would mean 2,000 to 5,000 more troops joining the 30,000 now deployed in the capital area. A reserve force held in Kuwait has already moved largely into Iraq, so officials said additional U.S. forces for Baghdad could come from areas recently passed to Iraqi control, such as Muthanna province in the south or Mosul in the north.

"Military officials said the U.S. contingent brought into Baghdad could be as large as a brigade, which would mean 2,000 to 5,000 more troops joining the 30,000 now deployed in the capital area. A reserve force held in Kuwait has already moved largely into Iraq, so officials said additional U.S. forces for Baghdad could come from areas recently passed to Iraqi control, such as Muthanna province in the south or Mosul in the north."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/07/25/AR2006072500157.html

Can't help feeling that, at this rate, we'll be seeing helicopters lifting out of the Green Zone one day, all same Vietnam.

I also think that, in case Bush is currently considering attacking Syria and/or Iran, someone should remind him of Abraham Lincoln's famous response when his advisers suggested that he got tough with the British over them building warships for the Confederacy - "One war at a time......"


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

It is indeed an "interesting" development. It seems Bush gets on really well with the new Iraqi PM, his language was a bit strangled but the body language said most of it.

I think the stats are that while the Lebanon bombardment has been going on:
More Iraqis have been killed in Iraq than civilians in Lebanon, and
More US soldiers have lost their live in Iraq than Israeli soldiers in association with the Lebanon campaign.
Attacks in July are up by some fearful amount compared with last month.

Welcome to another burst of blowback, Mr Bush.

It seems difficult to believe that Laura Norder will improve in the areas outside Baghdad as a result of this move and far from clear that it will improve matters in the big city.

The Tuesday Lehrer Newshour had its regular and extremely sad listing of casualties. I noticed a most unusual preponderance of Sergeants and more officers than usual. Was this statistical spottiness, or does it mark a change in the pattern of the war? Apart from dramatic footage of the aftermath of explosions and firefights, there seems to be very little public analysis of what is going on. Presumably the US military knows. Do they tell anyone else, why is it never reported on? Secret, too complex, no need to know???

Some US commentators still seem hell bent on taking on Iran, but a significant group of more sober commentators suggest that well before they got close to doing that, the flavour of the Iraq war would change so much that even the Rummie-Bush axis would think twice. We sure live in interesting times.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
I noticed a most unusual preponderance of Sergeants and more officers than usual.

A friend of mine occasionally makes some quite surprising comments on Iraq. He doesn't quote sources but I know that, though a devout civilian now, he maintains some contact with Aussie Special Forces. He told me about a month ago that there has recently been quite a revival of 'fragging' among US forces - a symptom of low morale, and also, of course, another parallel with Vietnam.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2457 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 2):
He told me about a month ago that there has recently been quite a revival of 'fragging' among US forces - a symptom of low morale, and also, of course, another parallel with Vietnam.

Before you go repeating those kind of accusations from unnamed sources you should consider that if it was happening it would have more than likely already been publicized by the media which has consistently shown it's desire to make the war effort look like a failure.

[Edited 2006-07-26 18:03:47]


Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
the media which has consistently shown it's desire to make the war effort look like a failure.

Surely it's not a matter of what it 'looks like', DL021, but what it IS? On present evidence, do you reckon that it's any kind of success?

As to the 'fragging' thing, I offer it as a possible explanation for the undeniably higher rate of NCO and officer casualties recently. If my suggestion doesn't please you, what's your explanation?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
Before you go repeating those kind of accusations from unnamed sources you should consider that if it was happening it would have more than likely already been publicized by the media which has consistently shown it's desire to make the war effort look like a failure.

I don't think the media is telling us much at all. If you listen to the really free freelancers, they give a totally different picture to correspondents who are probably tame/embedded, whatever.

I certainly don't know what the reason was, but the pattern in the list for 25 July 2006 was most unusual. I have missed the last few before that. I dont think we are getting much detail, selected information, but a broad pattern no. So if you can tell me it was a statistical blip, from memory only one of 16 was a LCpl, 2 Officers and 12 Sergeants. But just counting from the program would be subject to error. Even allowing for errors, this is not a normal pattern although I have noticed an apparently high frequency for relatively mature Sergeants - but I dont know the balance of ranks in the units either. Nav20 could be wrong. But something did appear to be unusual. Can you assure us it is a stat blip or tell us the actual cause?


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
don't think the media is telling us much at all.

And right on cue, the media DOES start to tell us.  Smile Some electrifying quotes in here - a classic picture of low morale, proving the old saying - "If you're not winning, you're losing."

"BAGHDAD, July 26 Army Staff Sgt. Jose Sixtos considered the simple question about morale for more than an hour. But not until his convoy of armored Humvees had finally rumbled back into the Baghdad military base, and the soldiers emptied the ammunition from their machine guns, and passed off the bomb-detecting robot to another patrol, did he turn around in his seat and give his answer.

"Think of what you hate most about your job. Then think of doing what you hate most for five straight hours, every single day, sometimes twice a day, in 120-degree heat," he said. "Then ask how morale is."

"But some soldiers in the 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored Division -- interviewed over four days on base and on patrols -- say they have grown increasingly disillusioned about their ability to quell the violence and their reason for fighting. The battalion of more than 750 people arrived in Baghdad from Kuwait in March, and since then, six soldiers have been killed and 21 wounded.

"It sucks. Honestly, it just feels like we're driving around waiting to get blown up, that's the most honest answer I could give you," said Spec. Tim Ivey, 28, of San Antonio, a muscular former backup fullback for Baylor University. "You lose a couple friends and it gets hard."

"How did it become, 'Well, now we have to rebuild this place from the ground up'?" Fulcher asked.

"He kept talking. "They say we're here and we've given them freedom, but really what is that? You know, what is freedom? You've got kids here who can't go to school. You've got people here who don't have jobs anymore. You've got people here who don't have power," he said. "You know, so yeah, they've got freedom now, but when they didn't have freedom, everybody had a job."

"The commanders in Baghdad and the Pentagon are "looking at the big picture all the time, but for us, we don't see no big picture, it's just always another bomb out here," said Spec. Joshua Steffey, 24, of Asheville, N.C. The company's commanding officer, Capt. Douglas A. DiCenzo of Plymouth, N.H., and his gunner, Spec. Robert E. Blair of Ocala, Fla., were killed by a roadside bomb in May.

Steffey said he wished "somebody would explain to us, 'Hey, this is what we're working for.' " With a stream of expletives, he said he could not care less "if Iraq's free" or "if they're a democracy."

"Steffey got up to leave the porch and go to bed.

"You know, the point is we've lost too many Americans here already, we're committed now. So whatever the [expletive] end-state is, whatever it is, we need to achieve it -- that way they didn't die for nothing," he said. "We're far too deep in this now."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Bad news indeed. If this is what the Washington Post is giving us, imagine what it is really like. Time is lost past to bring our boys home.  Sad

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

Your thread title is bullshit. Falling back indicates a retreat . . . that is not what is occurring . . .

The CORRECT thread title shuold be: US TROOPS CONCENTRATING ON BAGHDAD.

You can spin this any way you want NAV, but anything other than a reinforcement of Baghdad by troops already in country - and not a retreat - is the correct way.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
I think the stats are that while the Lebanon bombardment has been going on:
More Iraqis have been killed in Iraq than civilians in Lebanon, and
More US soldiers have lost their live in Iraq than Israeli soldiers in association with the Lebanon campaign.
Attacks in July are up by some fearful amount compared with last month.

Source?


User currently offlineAislepathLight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Your thread title is bullshit. Falling back indicates a retreat . . . that is not what is occurring . . .

The CORRECT thread title shuold be: US TROOPS CONCENTRATING ON BAGHDAD.

You can spin this any way you want NAV, but anything other than a reinforcement of Baghdad by troops already in country - and not a retreat - is the correct way.

ANC knows what he is talking about. If you want a country to survive, you need some where to base the power. Obviously, someone figured this out, and are trying to sort Baghdad.

The thread title makes it sound like there is breaking news that the US is retreating, which is not the case.



"We have slain a large dragon, but we now live in a jungle filled with a bewildering variety of poisonous snakes."
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2393 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 6):
"We're far too deep in this now."

Poor bastards is all I can comment together with and just imagine how bad it is for most Iraqis who suffer more from the insurgents, and seem to get the rough end of the pineapple all to often from the coalition troops.

The Aus ABC lunchtime current affairs radio program on 27 July 2006, had interviews with today with two commentators from the US
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/
(but no transcripts of those interviews currently available)

Dr Abbas Milani, Stanford and a John Altham or Alterman (sometimes Strine gets me too!). John whoever, commented that the strategy was not well conceived in that even defeating Hez would not achieve the current aims, if I heard him correctly. He particularly drew attention to the origins of Hez and suggested that in the unlikely event it was defeated it would be succeeded by another organization and noted that the effect of the bombing was to risk forcing Non Hez Lebanon into common cause with Hez. Milani was asked about how much control Iran had over Hez and in summary it was not much if local Hez wanted to go its own way and he very much doubted that Iran was sitting there pulling strings as seems to be the concept of the US Admin. He also thought that the US in Iraq provided the easiest way for Iran to express displeasure of the US (as has been commented on these threads for a while).

I mention these commentators because they come from the US, but not much similar comment seems to get into the US media.

Perhaps with this Wash Post article matters may be changing. But you would have thought that might have happened when they had a mea culpa over WMD. Wow, I see they even have an article suggesting a chat with Syria might be a good idea. Hell must be freezing over, first Aboulafia and now talking to Syria.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
I think the stats are that while the Lebanon bombardment has been going on:
More Iraqis have been killed in Iraq than civilians in Lebanon, and
More US soldiers have lost their live in Iraq than Israeli soldiers in association with the Lebanon campaign.
Attacks in July are up by some fearful amount compared with last month.

Source?

US forces in Iraq 36 killed, 461 wounded in July so far. Recorded Iraqi deaths 1,129.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

[Edited 2006-07-27 07:51:50]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 11):

That's half the answer:

How about:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
Attacks in July are up by some fearful amount compared with last month.

Opinion or fact?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 2):
He doesn't quote sources but I know that, though a devout civilian now, he maintains some contact with Aussie Special Forces. He told me about a month ago that there has recently been quite a revival of 'fragging' among US forces - a symptom of low morale, and also, of course, another parallel with Vietnam.

Tell you buddy to lay off the Fosters.....that stuff will rot your brain.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):

Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
I think the stats are that while the Lebanon bombardment has been going on:
More Iraqis have been killed in Iraq than civilians in Lebanon, and
More US soldiers have lost their live in Iraq than Israeli soldiers in association with the Lebanon campaign.
Attacks in July are up by some fearful amount compared with last month.

Source?

Graphic on a news broadcast here. It was either SBS (most likely) or ABC, neither given to inventing such matters. Go calculate the data if you doubt it, I think you will find it is correct.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):

Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
Attacks in July are up by some fearful amount compared with last month.

Opinion or fact?

Same thing, should I not watch TV? Are non-conformists not allowed to watch the goggle box? Just go find the attacks in June and come back when you find the July ones are not up by over 50% in rate terms.

You cannot hide stats just by asking opinion or fact. If I say they are up, it will be based on some statisticians "fact".

Once you produce stats showing that July was the same rate as June, I will go to the trouble of calculating it to show you are wrong. Meanwhile, I will comment on what others tell me on authoritative media. I might point out that both SBS and ABC get into the most fearful trouble if they make mistakes. Not least from the formidable ABC program called Mediawatch.

But bearing in mind your being picky, I will FROM NOW ON, turn my DVD recorder on and diligently report to you ANY stats that come afore my optics. This is a promise.

The number of casualties in Iraq (same sources, which come originally both from US and Iraqi sources) show that currently deaths in Iraq are running at about 3000 a month.

There is little point in trying to fight the bleeding obvious. Iraq is a mess. Coincidence or not, it is a worse mess since Lebanon started.

However, there are those who suggested that more trouble in Iraq could be a consequence of a laissez faire attitude to the war in Lebanon. But statistics tell you about intervariable relationships, they NEVER EVER tell you about causes. That is left to your intelligence.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
You cannot hide stats just by asking opinion or fact

Stats can be managed . . . . they can read whatever you want them to read . . . they are like polls, usually not very reliable . . . as can be proven right here at A-Net . . . depending on your source, a single question can bring a dozen different answers.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Just go find the attacks in June and come back when you find the July ones are not up by over 50% in rate terms.

Still waiting on the source?

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
But bearing in mind your being picky, I will FROM NOW ON, turn my DVD recorder on and diligently report to you ANY stats that come afore my optics. This is a promise.

No need to be so mellodramatic - just state the source . . . ABC news would have been sufficient . . .  sarcastic 

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Iraq is a mess.

I concur.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2347 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
No need to be so mellodramatic - just state the source . . . ABC news would have been sufficient . .

After looking at tonights SBS, the new graphic looked similar so I would think the source was SBS, but I had the DVD on and will retrieve the stats real soon now. Unhappily, it did not do the comparison with Iraq this time - I will write a stiff letter to them - but as I know the current figure of 3000 a month for Iraqi deaths has been given out by both the US and the Iraqis we can use that as a base when I come back on air.

The problem with working out the difference between SBS World News and ABC is the first is 18.30 to 18.56, and is immediately followed by ABC 17.00 to 17.28. The two rather seque into a continuous tale of woe.

SBS is also rather useful as during a day we get the following:
06.00-06.20 Chinese news
06.20-06.50 Mandarin news
07.25-07.56 Italian news
08.00- 08.30 Das Journal
08.30-?08.56 Spanish news
09.20-09.50 Le Journal
09.55-10.25 approx Russian news
10.30-10.56 Greek news
11.30-11.56 Arabic news
12.05-12.25 Indonesian news, Berita Pagi, TVRI
16.30-16.56 The Journal DW
17.00-17.56 Lehrer Newshour.
05.25-05.50 Japanese news (Friday morning)
All the previous day except for Japanese and Berita Pagi.
And then SBS' "own" world news at 18.30.

And tonight, guess what, Jon Stewart The Daily Show at 22.00. Perhaps I should have included that in the listing of news programs. Advice welcome!

About the only thing missing apart from the BEEB is the news from Lake Wobegone, but GK is just too expensive these days.

Hope this helps. Dont know what Nav20 watches, but I imagine he casts a beady eye over a couple of these too.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
Advice welcome!

Naaaaah - Daily Show isn't news, it's BS . . .

But I'm extremely proud of your concerted effort otherwise. Commendations to you!!!  goldmedal 

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
BEEB is the news from Lake Wobegone,

 rotfl  Excellent . . . I have a DVD or two I can share then . . . I mean, if you miss it terribly, let me know.  thumbsup 


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Naaaaah - Daily Show isn't news, it's BS . . .

But I'm extremely proud of your concerted effort otherwise. Commendations to you!!!

Thank you (I think!). And as our nice Mr Howard would be proud to say, if you read carefully, I did not say the the Daily Show was news. However, out of the mouths of babes and comedians can come much wisdom! And Stewart is not an exception.

It does not sound as if you could easily be converted to the humour of "our" Clarke and Dawe. And you really need to see them as well as hear, although the comedy IS all in the scripts. "Our" is in quotes because Clarke really is from NZ, where he became famous as Fred Dagg.

Suffice to say that when they made a series in 1999-2000 called the Games, some thought it was an official progam about the Olympics and an awful lot of things in that hysterically funny comedy actually came to pass. These nearly included the 95 m long 100 m running track. Also Clarke and Robin Williams came close to causing an international incident when they "broadcast live" on the Science show the birth of Diana's first child.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Iraq is a mess.

I concur.

As often before, ANCFlyer, we disagree vehemently on the details but agree on the substance.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
Dont know what Nav20 watches

Mainly just SBS World News, 6.30-7.00. Currently consists of say 25 miinutes of death and dee-struction, 2 minutes on the latest natural disaster, a 2-minute 'human interest' story, and 'finance/weather' to finish.  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2332 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 19):
Mainly just SBS World News, 6.30-7.00. Currently consists of say 25 miinutes of death and dee-struction, 2 minutes on the latest natural disaster, a 2-minute 'human interest' story, and 'finance/weather' to finish.

Nine out of ten there Nav20 for a summary of SBS World News, but only because I never give ten except for crystallography!

Back to thread. We probably have a correction although I for one am not sure what it is corrected to! At midday, our nice Mr Nelson was removing all the Aus troops out of Lebanon. And by 5 this afternoon, he had misheard the question and it was some troops who had been helping evacuations who were hot footing it back to Beirut. Talk about fog of war. Nelson is a bit of a boy scout and I think someone had tightened his woggle for him because he seemed to be hearing perfectly at lunch time.

Which sort of tells us two things. One we dont know what is happening there. But two, it suggests that the White House is probably rounding up any sheep that show the slightest sign of straying off the track, although even Condie (or especially Condie) does not actually know where the track is.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
British Take On The US Military In Iraq posted Sat Apr 5 2003 14:08:24 by ADG
Numbers Of NCOs In US Army In Iraq posted Tue Sep 26 2006 17:17:17 by Baroque
US Coalition In Iraq Falls Further Apart posted Tue Nov 16 2004 09:54:12 by Sabenapilot
ABC's 'Nightline' To Honor US Dead In Iraq posted Thu Apr 29 2004 18:55:38 by 727LOVER
US Soldiers In Iraq Asked To Pray For Bush posted Sun Apr 11 2004 06:32:32 by Cba
Another 2 Choppers Down In Iraq - WTF's Going On?! posted Sat Nov 15 2003 20:25:26 by Cedarjet
Gen. Clark's Book: How Bush Led Us Astray In Iraq posted Fri Sep 26 2003 21:06:44 by Aaron747
Are The US Forces Provoking Iraq? posted Sun Mar 9 2003 16:12:08 by CPH-R
US Special Forces Free Four Hostages In Iraq posted Tue Jun 8 2004 21:11:45 by L-188
Back In Iraq . . . . posted Mon Nov 27 2006 08:43:43 by ANCFlyer