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What Is Racism?  
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8115 posts, RR: 53
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

Much to my irritation, the thread about Palestinian "racism" has been locked. So, some Palestinian newspaper or Hamas spokesperson referred to Condaleeza Rice as "'colored dark skin lady'' and this was seized upon as racist.

Is it? I don't think so, cos she is coloured dark skin lady. If that is racist, then surely the implication of the accusation is that having dark coloured skin is a bad thing. Calling people names like the N word or associating the colour of their skin to behavioural stereotypes, especially negative ones, is racist. But is it racist merely to say someone has dark skin?


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1395 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Thread starter):
But is it racist merely to say someone has dark skin?

It depends on the context, it seems to me. Is someone's skin color relevant? And how many times is the description made? Is the article generally positive or negative? Is the tone of the article in which it appears respectful?

I think that if we were to read an article criticizing the "dark-skinned Kofi Annan", many of us would question whether its writer was prejudiced.

Contra, consider the following: "Nichelle Nichols of Star Trek fame is well-known to many for helping to pioneer the acceptance of blacks in the entertainment industry. The dark-skinned beauty, in her role as Lt. Uhura, once engaged Captain Kirk in an on-screen embrace that is often said to be the first interracial kiss in American prime time television." Now, this sentence, which I just made up, seems to me to be positive and I wouldn't think it would subject me to suspicion of racism, although even so, it is to some degree necessarily archaic because the term "dark-skinned" seems so obsolescent in this day and age.

[Edited 2006-08-01 15:37:37]

User currently offlineBotsCom From Angola, joined Jul 2006, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1395 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Thread starter):
But is it racist merely to say someone has dark skin?

Of course not. But it becomes racist, when she is simply singled out for it and it then comes out into the open. Sadly in the Arab World, if you have black skin, you are more than likely to be singled out for it. Where else, in the West now, and I mean UK, Canada, or USA it's dealt with more much more tact.



TAAG-New 777's
User currently offlineMelpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1621 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

I'm not a racist person, but........

There was a Sri Lankan woman who worked in my office who would complain about our Chinese colleagues talking to each other in Cantonese - this same woman would then call her husband & talk to him in Singhalese... a severe case of double standards.

Go figure.



Essendon - Whatever it takes......
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

In answering the topic question, I would offer a very brief definition of racism: It is the belief in the superiority of any race, and thus the inferiority of any other race, on the basis of any difference attributed, rightly or wrongly, to characteristics founded on race.

I realize that the above would require further definitions -- for example, of "race" -- but I think that it is probably a good start.

[Edited 2006-08-01 15:42:44]

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1362 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Thread starter):
the thread about Palestinian "racism" has been locked

yes, as some apparently regarded the whole thread as racist

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 1):
Is the article generally positive or negative?

It was NOT "generally" negative. It contained things like "her feminity and her high intelligence" "lady" in various points, and "dark" used in the way you describe a "Black Panther" . It was NOT as negative as many perceived it to be. All in all, Mrs Rice as a person is appreciated and even liked, in spite of working for a dis-liked boss.

Quoting Melpax (Reply 3):
There was a Sri Lankan woman who worked in my office who would complain about our Chinese colleagues talking to each other in Cantonese - this same woman would then call her husband & talk to him in Singhalese... a severe case of double standards.

Such "double-standards" unfortnately happen quite often. Hope that people in your office managed to tell her this in a polite and nice and co-operative but clear way.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1355 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 5):
It was NOT as negative as many perceived it to be. All in all, Mrs Rice as a person is appreciated and even liked, in spite of working for a dis-liked boss.

That's good to know, and I appreciate your clarification of this issue. In that case, I wouldn't be so quick to characterize such article as racist.

In any event, perhaps we should discuss the topic question a bit more to avoid the temptation to treat this as a re-opened topic from a thread that was closed. What are your feelings as to what racism is?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Edited 2006-08-01 16:07:20]

User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 6):
the temptation to treat this as a re-opened topic from a thread that was closed. What are your feelings as to what racism is?

I would advocate a restrictive use of that term. To declare any ultra-nationalist chauvinist attitude as racist simply is rubbish. Racism is if somebody gets attacked based on "racial features" like skin colour or face-aspects like nose, eyes, lips, etc.


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Thread starter):
So, some Palestinian newspaper or Hamas spokesperson referred to Condaleeza Rice as "'colored dark skin lady'' and this was seized upon as racist.

It clearly isn't but so many folks get their feathers ruffled these days (is that racist against birds?) it seems some days you just shouldn't even speak in public. Perhaps the word black or African-American doesn't translate that well into Arabic. Maybe it was met as an insult but I don't think so.

Quoting Melpax (Reply 3):
I'm not a racist person, but........

And what you stated wasn't racist in the least. You pointed out the double standards of an ignorant person and there isn't any problem with that.

Quoting Cedarjet (Thread starter):
What Is Racism?

To me racism is the belief that one race is genetically superior to another. Nazi Germany is the best example with their views of blue eyed blondes being superior to everyone else. Of course the sweet irony of a black guy going into the Olympics and showing them up was classic. KKK members here in the US (I'm guessing they are elsewhere as well but mainly in the US) thinking they are superior to black folks is almost comical as well. Black Panthers thinking that they are better than white folks is comical on the other end.

There are tons of other examples but I stick to the classic definition of the word. Folks are probably going to tell you that any group of people being mean to another group of people is racism but I would argue that (right or wrong) because the word RACE is right there in the word.

The word race will of course be up for debate as well and some folks will probably say that any group of people (blacks, whites, English, A.net members, etc.) can be considered a race but I still disagree though what constitutes a race is kind of open. In the US races are considered white, black, asian, hispanic, and a few others while some will argue against those classifications but that is a different thread.

To summarize...

racism=one race gentically superior to another race

all else=bigoted


Of course this one is just my opinion but I could be wrong.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):
Perhaps the word black or African-American doesn't translate that well into Arabic

A majority of Arabs ARE "African" which means on the African side of the Arab World, and many ARE "black". And while most Arabs regard themselves as (more or less) "Whites", it is rather mixed. THAT is the reason for having BOTH "black" and "dark skinned" . BUT the term "lady" appears so often that it almost becomes referential.


User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):
To me racism is the belief that one race is genetically superior to another

 checkmark   checkmark 


i see it as discrimination or prejudice based on race.
It's that simple.

-Zaki


User currently offlineBotsCom From Angola, joined Jul 2006, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
A majority of Arabs ARE "African" which means on the African side of the Arab World, and many ARE "black". And while most Arabs regard themselves as (more or less) "Whites"

In a strict geographical sense, yes, but by any other measure, subscribed or not. Claimed or unclaimed, they are not. Contrast that with Israel, where blacks are well integrated, accepted at least by authority level and play an active part in their country, like serving in the IDF. The difference yet again, between Israel and the of the Arab world, couldn't be clearer.



TAAG-New 777's
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Quoting BotsCom (Reply 11):
where blacks are well integrated

reports about problems, Israeli of Ethiopian origin DO face in Israel, speak rather a different language from your "dreams"


User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

This is a good example of racism..............

RE: A Solution To Gas Prices And Illegal Immigarnts (by Matt D Jul 27 2006 in Non Aviation)#ID1313140



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

Quoting Marcus (Reply 13):
This is a good example of racism..............

Tasteless but I don't know if I could deem it racist. He is proposing putting the illegal aliens to work. Of course they shouldn't be here unless they come through the right legal channels but I digress. I don't see where he is advocating he as what I suppose is a white guy that he is superior to hispanics. Rather he is just coming up with a solution to his problem and the country's problem all at once though it is unfeasible and quite silly.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1798 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

You are kidding...........right?


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

No, as I read it I don't see racism. I see tasteless behavior but that is all. Why not put the illegal aliens to work and earn their way into the country?


Of course I'm kidding that it is a good idea. I still don't think it is racism but then I'm not Mexican and as I said earlier in the thread the definition of race is so open to debate that who really knows.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineJoseMEX From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 1539 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1230 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 16):
I still don't think it is racism

You still don't think it's racism?:

Quoting BaylorAirBear (reply 4 on the same thread):

>Damn, I was hoping you were incinerating them and using the ash to power your new hybrid vehicle.<


User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1370 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1216 times:

Quoting Melpax (Reply 3):
this same woman would then call her husband & talk to him in Singhalese.

I don't see what is wrong in that. Her husband doesn't work for that company, but the others are employees of the same company.

Do you expect her to talk to her husband in her non-native language? After all are you interested in their "personal matters"?

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):
And what you stated wasn't racist in the least.

 checkmark 

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):
To me racism is the belief that one race is genetically superior to another.

 checkmark 

or I would like to put its as "racism is the belief that one race is genetically INFERIOR to another."


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1206 times:

Quoting JoseMEX (Reply 17):
You still don't think it's racism?:

Quoting BaylorAirBear (reply 4 on the same thread):

>Damn, I was hoping you were incinerating them and using the ash to power your new hybrid vehicle.<

Tasteless yes. But I just don't see it as racism. Insert any nationality there and see others get offended. Put in Florida Cracker instead of Mexican and see me get annoyed.

You're making the assertation that a nationality is a race whereas I disagree with that definition. I'm not condoning the comments in that thread but I don't see BAB (or anyone else) saying we as white folks are better than hispanics.

I suppose we will just agree to disagree.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1179 times:

Quoting Marcus (Reply 13):
This is a good example of racism..............

RE: A Solution To Gas Prices And Illegal Immigarnts (by Matt D Jul 27 2006 in Non Aviation)#ID1313140

It is extreme jingoism, but as "illegal immigrants" are NOT a race and hardly just of one race, it is NOT racism.


User currently offlineBotsCom From Angola, joined Jul 2006, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1176 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12):
reports about problems, Israeli of Ethiopian origin DO face in Israel, speak rather a different language from your "dreams"

No country is perfect, I made no claims that Israel is perfect. What I meant, is that, on the whole,m immigrants to Israel play a active part in that countries development. You are issued a passport the moment you land, given assistance with housing, and integrating yourself into the community.

In fact when you compare the situation of immigrants to Israel and those of Arab countires, the dffierences are stark. In contrast, it is well known, in parts of Saudi Arabia, that slave trading still exists.



TAAG-New 777's
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1173 times:

Quoting BotsCom (Reply 21):
it is well known, in parts of Saudi Arabia, that slave trading still exists.

there is no slave-trading in Saudi Arabia. Whenever living conditions of many "guest-workers" in households are not much better. The last Arab country which DID have slavery was Mauritania, where you in Nouakchott could get the explanation in places "you see, the young man gardening overthere is a slave, and belongs to our court president" and that in the mid 1980ies ! Slavery however was abolished in Mauritania on 1st January 2000 .
-
-----------------

Quoting BotsCom (Reply 21):
Israel and those of Arab countires, the dffierences are stark

the differences between the various Arab countries are enormous, so that you canNOT compare the Arab World as a whole with Israel. And you have to take into account the very special situation of Israel, which btw. is MOST restrictive in case an Israeli Arab wants to marry an Arab NON-Israeli, but as a kind of "raison-d'etre" supports any Jews immigrating.

[Edited 2006-08-02 09:56:03]

User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1148 times:

Here in the UK our local "olde worldie pub" has been bought and completely stafted by Europeans, all the British staff were "let Go" !!!.

Other than when serving you the staff talk between themselves in their own language , which of coarse no customer an understand. Mind you this has happened in Chinese and Indian restuarants for decades

Now is this Racism or just bad manners

They are actually muttering about people being predjudiced against them as they are losing their custermers.

littlevc10


User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1131 times:

Here is a post that I wrote on another forum in a thread called 'My son was hit and called a terrorist' started by an american women who is married to a lebanese.

Quote:
At the base of the whole conflict is the assumption that terrorists are 'just like that' , that somehow terrorist are so by nature, by birth... and that assumption is wrong and even in a way racist. Why would people chose hate and destruction over a peaceful life? they cant answer. They say those people are like that, they are a cancer to society, a plague that must be eliminated. They cannot be spoken to, they say, they cannot be reasoned with.

At the origin of war there is always some sort of racism, a claim that the other side are bad by nature, and will eliminate us if we dont do so first.
This racism is on both sides.

Here is what your great civilisation of peace and tolerance, the great culture of democracy and justice, whose word is always right, and who are never stray from the path of justice... this is what they say.

Arabs are bad... they are terrorists... it's true I saw it on CNN, it's what g.bush the might defender of justice and democracy and freedom said.

Conspiracies everywhere, paranoia from both sides.

What a waste.

Link to the original



rolf
25 ME AVN FAN : What I clearly DISliked in that thread there is the remark of this "Plakkis" who found it important to state "I am a Maronite". Which sounds as if he
26 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Not even close, it's an example, perhaps, of a bad joke in bad taste. It's only racial if you're carrying around a huge chip on your shoulder - and h
27 DeltaGator : Completely off topic but she debated her opponent in the Democratic runoff the other night. Honestly neither was good but the polls are saying Johnso
28 Post contains images Rolfen : It is not what he meant, it is a minusderstanding, if you read his further posts youll see that this is his signature and it is unrelated to the cont
29 ME AVN FAN : ok, makes things better ! I have seen such things in some places, and found it irritating. Mostly if people defend themselves in front of Europeans a
30 Cedarjet : Dude, you simply can't make the comparison. Israel is desperate for warm bodies to fight the (ultimately futile) demographic race with Palestinians.
31 BotsCom : It's a futile act. Opposition to Israel is so entrenched, some are blinded by pure hatred of the Jews to establish their own country. Look, for the s
32 Cedarjet : Complete rubbish. Arguing that objection to Israel is anti-Semitism is pathetic. Israel take over Palestine and force the entire Palestinian populati
33 ME AVN FAN : They before 1920 were less than 10% of the population of Palestine, so in a way have NOT been there between 300AD and 1920AD. And Palestine between a
34 ME AVN FAN : while I at present rather perceive pure hatred from the side of Israelis and the White House against whomever does NOT support them both, and whomeve
35 Rolfen : If they keep pissing off everybody around them, they're set for a difficult future. Dont underestimate the arabs, they'r not stupid you know, they'r
36 ME AVN FAN : well, the past three weeks have demonstrated that they still feel vastly superior, to be those who can "teach ... a lesson" etc. Suppose they expecte
37 AerospaceFan : I think we're getting a bit off topic here, but may I venture my opinion that the idea that Israel is on "someone else's land" is near the crux of th
38 777236ER : Racism is discrimination or prejudice based on race, as simple as that.
39 ME AVN FAN : exactly right. But, unfortunately, the word often is used as an empty slogan, devaluing its importance.
40 Rolfen : Israel is colonising the west bank with thousands of illegal settlements - feet by feet. These settlements are deemed as illegal and a form of israel
41 ME AVN FAN : if this means Israel in its recognized 1948-67 borders, it is ok. But it has to include the unalienable right of Palestine in the Gaza-Territory, the
42 ME AVN FAN : these settlements are NOT part of Israel, and negotiations about them HAVE to mean talks about how to clear them
43 ANCFlyer : I thought this thread was on racism, not on Israel and Lebanon and Palestine. Suggesting it be locked.
44 ME AVN FAN : while you ought NOT to be so petty, strict and narrow-minded, you at the other end are completely CORRECT ! Yes, the Palestine-matter has nothing rea
45 Diamond : The thread started off being purely about racism. Even though a reference was made to Sec. Rice who has recently been to the Middle East .. this threa
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