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Palestinian Parliamant President Arrested...  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1136 times:

Abdelasis Duweik,President of the Palestine Parliament,has been arrested yesterday by Israeli Security Forces.
Duweik used to teach as Professor for Geography at the University El Nadschah
So far 64 members of Hamas including 8 ministers and 26 elected members of the Parliament have been arrested .
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

[Edited 2006-08-06 14:34:34]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

It gets a bit hairier once you promote terrorist attacks on civilians, even if you're not throwing bombs yourself.

I still have severe doubts if this course of action will be able to actually bring any benefits to Israel. I suspect it only leads to further escalation.


User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
Abdelasis Duweik,President of the Palestine Parliament,has been arrested yesterday by Israeli Security Forces.

I just read this on an arabic news site...
Being a Palestinian myself, i'm not a fan of Hamas at all. I don't think the Hamas gov't is doing my people any good.

-Zaki


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1117 times:

I agree on the issue : if Hamas promotes violence ,you only harvest more violence -a typical lose-lose situation.
But we all know just too well that the current set up of "Palestine" is a non-viable entity.Its is like a pressure-cooker once the pressure is too high-it explodes.
Once you visit the region you wonder how they manage to live anyhow ...
The moderate voices (Hanna Ashrawi...Saeb Erekat....Abu Matzen... ) are losing out against the frustrated populist leaders of Hamas. But then-that again is a whole tactic of Jerusalem ,to get better arguments for interventions.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1114 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3):
The moderate voices (Hanna Ashrawi...Saeb Erekat....Abu Matzen... ) are losing out against the frustrated populist leaders of Hamas. But then-that again is a whole tactic of Jerusalem ,to get better arguments for interventions.

I would love to see Israel halfway consistently disproving that impression...! Sad


User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1108 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3):
The moderate voices (Hanna Ashrawi...Saeb Erekat....Abu Matzen... ) are losing out against the frustrated populist leaders of Hamas

we have some very well educated people who are standing on the sidelines because Hamas is in control.

-Zaki


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1101 times:

At least from the outside it looks a lot as if Fatah was as much a problem for the halfway decent moderates as Hamas is now... The question is if there is a chance for a new movement without the burdens of Fatah corruption and Hamas extremism...!?

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

I came across this organisation which -at least on paper- has some very decent goals and down -to -earth ambitions.
They defenitely would deserve some encouragement ...
(Sometimes ) women make the better politicians..
http://www.pwwsd.org/



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
The question is if there is a chance for a new movement without the burdens of Fatah corruption and Hamas extremism...!?

Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad along with Hanan Ashrawi would all make a strong team. (at least in my opinion)
You can read about Dr. Fayyad here:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Fayyad.html
and
http://www.mof.gov.ps/minister.html

-Zaki


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1085 times:

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 8):
Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad along with Hanan Ashrawi would all make a strong team. (at least in my opinion)

Looks, like it, yes. One can only hope that they'll be in charge some day.

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 8):
You can read about Dr. Fayyad here:

Looks like he worked into the right direction...


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1081 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

It would help if the Palestinians wouldn't elect criminals and terrorists.

I'm curious to know how the Palestinians would vote if elections were held again tomorrow. Has Hamas improved their lives? Have they shown any progress in securing Palestinian territorial integrity? Or their own goal of exterminating Israel?


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1072 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
Have they shown any progress in securing Palestinian territorial integrity?

Has Israel shown any progress in adopting UN resolutions concerning Palestine and the colonies,Golan and fredom of movement for the Palestinians?
It is an endless discussion -but with positions as entrenched and inflexible as currently,I don't see much progress in the near future.
I have the impression that many of the participants in this forum have not spent to much time in the region -otherwise their opinion would be somewhat more balanced.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1069 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
It would help if the Palestinians wouldn't elect criminals and terrorists.

Menahem Begin was a criminal and terrorist as well. Still no reason to invade Israel and to detain him at the time.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
I'm curious to know how the Palestinians would vote if elections were held again tomorrow. Has Hamas improved their lives? Have they shown any progress in securing Palestinian territorial integrity?

Hardly - but constantly frustrating and embarrassing the moderates has not left much choice, especially with Fatah disgracing itself at the same time.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
Or their own goal of exterminating Israel?

Yeah, they're all "just evil", right? Yawn!  yawn   crazy 


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1066 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Menahem Begin was a criminal and terrorist as well. Still no reason to invade Israel and to detain him at the time.

One moderated by 3 or 4 decades since the last time he acted as such. Hamas are quite current in their qualifications.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Hardly - but constantly frustrating and embarrassing the moderates has not left much choice, especially with Fatah disgracing itself at the same time.

I have to agree with you on that.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Yeah, they're all "just evil", right? Yawn!

Yep.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1056 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
One moderated by 3 or 4 decades since the last time he acted as such. Hamas are quite current in their qualifications.

Sure.

But Begin apparently ordered a (narrowly failed) assassination attempt on german chancellor Konrad Adenauer as late as 1952 according to one of his former aides, so his change of heart can be seen with a healthy helping of doubt.

Categorical condemnations are not always helpful. Had Hezbollah not started this war, the recent declaration from Hamas leaders for the acknowledgment of Israel could really have gained traction...!


User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1054 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):
Had Hezbollah not started this war, the recent declaration from Hamas leaders for the acknowledgment of Israel could really have gained traction...!

That's what i was hoping.. but look where we're at now!!


-Zaki


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1051 times:

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 15):
That's what i was hoping.. but look where we're at now!!

Indeed - Hezbollah would have lost a lot of credibility if Hamas had actually gone through with their sensational declaration (resisted by some Hamas leaders in Syria, however - what a coincidence!).

And the israeli hardliners gladly obliged and bombed both Lebanon and the latest chance for peace to hell as desired by both Hezbollah and the Hamas hardliners. Stupid!


User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1044 times:

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 5):
we have some very well educated people who are standing on the sidelines because Hamas is in control.

-Zaki

It's called democracy. The will of the people. I'm also Palestinian and regret, as a Palestinian refugee (in Lebaon) who's never set foot on the homeland, to see Islamic extremists in control. But on the other hand Fateh and the other "elite" Arafat ex-guards stink even more, their corruption and Oslo failures speak for themselves... Where is Suha? How much is she worth?

It's time for a unity government comprised of Hamas, Fateh, and the smaller parties. However there is no more room for corruption and the participation of Hamas would AT LEAST bring some fiscal responsibility.

Time to put our house in order, while we work on Israeli piracy in kidnapping OUR ELECTED LEADERS.



If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1041 times:

..by putting the democratically elected Hamas leaders into Jail - after their readiness to at least indirectly recognize Israel - we've lost two to three years - again...
You must win the impression some elements in Israel are not keen on real progress in talks but prefer a status-quo in military In-balance,Palestinian unrest and Lebanese in-stability.
The amazing thing is ,that even the "peace now" movement seems not aware that instability in Lebanon does not facilitate stability in the territories.
They fully support the actual military-campaign regardless of disastrous fall-out reactions.
( a.a. motivation among Shi'ia and Sunni extremist groups for more suicide-terror,water on the mills of Tehran,de-stabilising moderate Palestinian elements..)



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1031 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The question is how can the Palestinians exercise democratically their administration,if freely elected representatives end up in jail ,simply because their views are no compliant with that of their neighbours.

Sure! Just give back the soldier.

Now stop bitchin' and turn over the soldiers and I'll be the first one screaming at the US to stop the non sense.

Until then.....the IDF can keep pulling on the lanyards.

Hint: Turn over the 3 kids, and everthing will end quickly!!!



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1026 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 19):
Hint: Turn over the 3 kids, and everthing will end quickly!!!

The three "kids" have nothing to do with the current situation- even if they would be returned .
Hamas leaders have been jailed even before the solder has been kidnapped in Gaza and the West-Banks.As long as people live in worse conditions than animals,as long you will produce desperate reactions.
They have nothing to lose -and false promises from Israeli politicians fill pages.
The declared goal is to finish Hezbollah and Hamas- so their return would -at best-be good for some diplomatic statements, indicating the main goals has not been achieved.Your comment is very blue-eyed ...

[Edited 2006-08-06 19:32:37]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1019 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 20):
The three "kids" have nothing to do with the current situation- even if they would be returned .

Turn over the 3 kids and you'll get support in the US to stop the shooting and for the IDF to go back to their lines. It's that simple.

Arabs want our help? Then it's our rules! Period.

Give the kids back!



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1015 times:

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 17):
It's called democracy. The will of the people. I'm also Palestinian and regret, as a Palestinian refugee (in Lebaon) who's never set foot on the homeland, to see Islamic extremists in control.

You said it brother...
Islamic Extremists in power means NOT A SLIGHT CHANCE FOR PEACE OR IMPROVEMENT.


-Zaki


User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 995 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 21):
Give the kids back!

In your sweet dreams.

Release the 300 women, 100 children, and 9,000 Palestinian prisoners.

Release the kidnapped government ministers.

Pull back the occupation and uproot the settlements.

Capice? Besides, I don't see why the fuss about 3 soldiers.



If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 980 times:

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 23):
In your sweet dreams.

Release the 300 women, 100 children, and 9,000 Palestinian prisoners.

Release the kidnapped government ministers.

Pull back the occupation and uproot the settlements.

I don't understand it. The Lebanese sympathizers claim that the government of Lebanon is independent and has no responsibility for the actions of Hezbollah. Yet in the same breath they mention that these prisoners (most of who are guilty) need to be released for the Israeli's to be released.

Condemning the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers while agreeing that the terms of their release is moral is hypocritical and idiotic.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 23):
Besides, I don't see why the fuss about 3 soldiers.

Of course you wouldn't. But the action is indicative of the type of power and potential that has layed just across the border vying for the opportune time to attack Israel.

And yes, they are soldiers, but they are also sons, daughters, and family to the Israeli everyman. I guess that all you see is the star on their uniform.


25 Damirc : As opposed to the Lebanese and Palestinian soldiers, who are held in Israeli prisons (sometimes still awaiting trial after lenghty periods of time).
26 EurostarVA : You are seriously WRONG. Most of the 9000 POWs in Israeli jails are administrative and other type of detainees who've NEVER BEEN PUT ON TRIAL or are
27 DLPMMM : And I don't see the fuss about the current Israeli actions in Lebanon, just a little response to an injustice. (This is just as valid as your point.
28 BotsCom : Couldn't have said it better myself.
29 Fumanchewd : I was responding to his claim that no one should care about the kidnapping of Israeli troops. When did I ever state that the same shouldn't be felt f
30 Fumanchewd : You also seem to forget that defining them as POWs allows governments to forgo any trial. You seem to be a little confused. As said, they are not POW
31 AA777 : A LITTLE RESPONSE? Are you Kidding? They have destroyed the infrastructure of the entire country! It doesnt take long. It is not a big country. If an
32 EurostarVA : Oslo agreement is dead. PA is dead. One thing remains: The Israeli occupation. "Criminal" elements in Palestinian society are subject to Palestinian j
33 EurostarVA : Israel puts the icing on the cake: Palestinian House Speaker Aziz Dweik taken to hospital after he was beaten by Israeli interrogators.
34 Fumanchewd : Hegemony over what? Israel?
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