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Authorities Should Look For Bombers, Not Bombs  
User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3171 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

We are putting our efforts into hte wrong place. Rather than search for bombs, we should search for bombers.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
100 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
We are putting our efforts into hte wrong place. Rather than search for bombs, we should search for bombers

Erm, thats exactly what happened this week in the UK, we found the people behind a large bombing plot.

How are we putting our efforts into the wrong place exactly?



Lee



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
We are putting our efforts into hte wrong place. Rather than search for bombs, we should search for bombers.

No, what we need to cut down on are those people who SELL airline tickets to the bombers... dont give people who want to set off bombs on aircraft tickets to fly!

 sarcastic 

You Muppet...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineFDXMECH From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Understand your point. El Al does a great job of profiling their pax.
IMO - Unfortunately if we were as effective as the Israeli's, the ACLU et al would have a field day crying, "Racial Profiling!" in an effort to undermine the system.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

All bombers were at some time in their lives people that thought they would never have an intention to bomb. Until the time they decide to do so, they should be free to fly as anyone else (they have not yet committed a crime).

A bomber cannot bomb without a bomb, correct? What if the bomber decides to ship his cargo via a third party....if we were looking for bombers only, and not the bomb itself, we would miss it. This isn't very smart, is it?

Searching for physical devices is the most effective way to handle both issues. Bombs explode....not the bombers (if they have no bomb of course).


User currently offlineFDXMECH From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
All bombers were at some time in their lives people that thought they would never have an intention to bomb. Until the time they decide to do so, they should be free to fly as anyone else (they have not yet committed a crime).

Putting, "To bomb or not to bomb" on the same mindset as, "Coke or Sprite" is folly.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
A bomber cannot bomb without a bomb, correct? What if the bomber decides to ship his cargo via a third party....if we were looking for bombers only, and not the bomb itself, we would miss it. This isn't very smart, is it?

Every mode of transport should be allowed every possible means of detection feasable. That doesn't mean bombs and not bombers nor bombers and not bombs but rather both. Your methodology smcks of political correctness at the expense of pubic safety. Simple.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Searching for physical devices is the most effective way to handle both issues. Bombs explode....not the bombers (if they have no bomb of course).

Has the term redundancy entered your mindset? What if the bomb is well hidden and can't be found till it's too late. Maybe vetting the bomber would prevent such needless tragedies. You also fail to reconize that nowadays bombers *do* explode along with their contents as the preferred method of meeting their maker.

You are affording the bomber rights he does not have. You are sacrificing the rights of innocent people. Wake up.



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2259 times:

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 5):

Every mode of transport should be allowed every possible means of detection feasable.

Not if you want to be able to fly cheaply. Put the best technology into airports, along with 2-3 security agents per passenger, an expect to see fares quadruple and waiting times at airports increase to a ridiculous level. It's not economically or practically feasible to have total security. There has to be a balance.

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 5):
Your methodology smcks of political correctness at the expense of pubic safety

Don't be so sensationalist. Public safety isn't assured in anything. The entire industry has to strike a balance between passenger safety, and economics.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

I have one word for you . . .

PROFILE

Yes, I know, everyone instantly thinks Racist . . . well, good for you and your narrow sense of vision.

As I've said before - Profiling works . . . it's a great tool if used properly in conjunction with other tools to help reduce the chance that someone will blow a 747 out of the sky. . .

Until the Political Correctness wienies get off their high horse and quit sniveling then we'll continue to see these same types of circumstances pop up over and over.

The solution is not simple - but we - the world - are certainly missing the boat by refusing to profile passengers.

I don't look for tall thin white guys selling drugs in Mountain View section of Anchorage and I damn sure don't look for tall thin black guys doing so in Oceanview . . . that is profiling . . . and it works. It's not racist - it's common sense. . . . some all the feel-gooders and PC monkeys seem be short on.


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4682 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
don't look for tall thin white guys selling drugs in Mountain View section of Anchorage and I damn sure don't look for tall thin black guys doing so in Oceanview . . . that is profiling . . . and it works. It's not racist - it's common sense. . . . some all the feel-gooders and PC monkeys seem be short on

Note to self - avoid the Mt. View area of ANC and Oceanview

Signed,
Me - a tall thin white guy who has chosen to live lawfully.....



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):

As I've said before - Profiling works

That doesn't mean it's justified.

Shooting everyone with HIV would also work.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
PROFILE

Yes, I know, everyone instantly thinks Racist

By definition it's racist. It's discrimination based solely upon race.

If you start to go down this route, where does it end? Insurance companies are already overtly sexist in their cover. Open security profiling gives them a green light to base insurance upon 'race'.

If black people are more likely than white people to commit a crime, then should all black people be subject to curfews, more random searches and detailed checks? If Chinese Americans are more likely to crash a car than 'white' Americans, should they be banned from driving?

This isn't about 'feel-gooders' and 'PC monkeys', it's about the freedoms and liberties that the West is based upon. The West is liberal. If you advocate these draconian, racist measures, then you're as bad as the terrorists trying to destroy our way of life.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 9):
By definition it's racist. It's discrimination based solely upon race.

Your dictionary is quite obviously outdated . . .

And thank you for making my point:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
Yes, I know, everyone instantly thinks Racist . . . well, good for you and your narrow sense of vision.

And so quickly too.  thumbsup 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 9):
This isn't about 'feel-gooders' and 'PC monkeys', it's about the freedoms and liberties that the West is based upon. The West is liberal. If you advocate these draconian, racist measures, then you're as bad as the terrorists trying to destroy our way of life.

It's about protecting and maintaining the freedoms and liberties we in the West so quickly and handily 'give away' . . . that's what it's about.

Once more - get a new dictionary - your's is outdated . . . you're instant adjudication that profiling is racist is the proof thereof.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5395 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
PROFILE

Here's my issue though, John - at what point does it become GIGO? The enemy in this case aren't Arabs or Pakistanis or Persians, but Islamic fundamentalists who don't exactly walk around with signs on.

Would you profile this guy?



He's as white as can be and looks like any number of college students I've seen (actually bears resemblance to a friend of mine). Yet he's on the FBI Seeking Information List.

How about this guy?



Same thing - white as can be, looks like your average WASPy sort, but it's John Walker Lindh.

Let's flip the script onto terrorism in general. Should we also profile white, male, military veterans whenever they rent a truck because of this guy?



How about white, male, evangelical Christians buying pipes and nails because of this guy?



Same purchase at Home Depot, but a different profile - PhD holders who don't like technology:



My point isn't that "Oh no, profiling is racist!" It's that "oh no, terrorists don't conform to a profile." Simply put, they're wolves in sheep's clothing and while you're profiling a sheep (let's say an Arab Christian or an Arab Jew or a Zoroastrian Persian) a wolf like Lindh, Gadahn, McVeigh, Rudolph, or Kaczynski could easily slip by.

[Edited 2006-08-11 18:27:55]


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Your dictionary is quite obviously outdated . . .

Racism is discrimination based upon race. Which is what you're advocating doing.

From the American Heritage Dictionary, Fourth Edition:

rac·ism
n
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.


Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
It's about protecting and maintaining the freedoms and liberties we in the West so quickly and handily 'give away' . . . that's what it's about.

What you're suggesting is protecting the freedoms and liberties of the majority by limiting those of the minority.

Your idea would destroy much more than any terrorist could. It would destroy our way of life, our ideologies and our beliefs. If you start erroding our liberties and freedoms, there's no telling where it will stop. It's only a tiny leap in argument to go from racial profiling to racial segregation to racial internment.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Once more - get a new dictionary - your's is outdated

One more time, just in case you ignore what I wrote:


rac·ism
n
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

On another point, it's interesting that you as an American think that terrorism can only come from someone who looks Middle Eastern. The Provisional IRA and Continuity IRA were funded by organisations in the US. They trained and recruited in the US, under the nose of successive American governments, while terrorist attack after attack was being carried out on civilians.

User currently offlineJamesAg96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

The first guy looks like a douche, and yes I would profile him.

John Walker didn't look like that when they picked him up so that pic is misleading.

McVeigh was a nut job, and how many more out there were like him? Too, though not proven, there is chatter he wasn't alone and had influences from some of the same folks we are fighting today.

Rudolph and Ted...they certainly seem to be part of something larger, even global in scale don't they?

These arguments are tired. Fact is most if not 99% of ALL terrorism in the world today is because of Muslim extremism...why is it bad to say that? Why is it bad to profile that? How is that racist?



Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 11):
Would you profile this guy?

Give me the scenario . . . what am I looking for?

Drugs in Mountainview?

Shoe Bombers?

See, here is what I mean by short sighted or "narrow sense of vision" (not meaning you of course - just in general). When I discuss profiling I paint a larger picture than most people can envision (apparently the case since I'm instantly labelled a racist every time I use the word).

It's not just about a race, or a religion, it also must include the circumstance or scenario.

Let me paint a picture for you: In Northern Montana and in Idaho, if I'm looking to work a case involving neo-nazi/fascist gun nuts that have declared their independence from the USA, I'm certainly NOT going to pay much attention to a Blackfoot Indian from Cut Bank, Montana (and I know a couple - served with them in the Army). Why??? Doesn't fit the 'profile'. No, I'm going to be looking for and watching the McVeigh and Rudolph types. It's not racist . . . it's a tool, and one that works.

Another: If I'm out looking to catch street racers on Northern Lights Blvd - am I going to watch out for lumbering BAFDTs like mine, or the little rice burners with way too small tires, lighted wheel wells and phony spoilers duct taped to the trunk lid? It's not racist . . . it's a tool, and one that works.

And again: In Anchorage today we have a serious gang problem with the Samoans/Polynesians. It's a fact, over a dozen killings this year amongst some of the young people here in town. So if an APD Officer, working the gang task force in Fairview section of the city wants to be effective, s/he needs to pay attention to the Samoans/Polynesians in the area moreso than the balance of the population there . . . it's not racist, it's a tool.

Now - finally: Let me paint this picture for you: In the last 5-6 years, who has had a propensity for disrupting air travel in this world by flying planes into buildings or planning to blow a half dozen or so out of the sky? The southern baptists? Presbyterians? American Indians? Polynesians? Nooo - young to middle aged radical Muslims/Islamic Fascists. So at the airport, one should probably pay a tad more attention to people that fit that profile. It is inconvient, it is not fair, it is not politically correct, but - it IS effective.

I understand completely your point . . . believe me I do.



See my point?

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 11):
(actually bears resemblance to a friend of mine).

And he needs a haircut  wink 


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting JamesAg96 (Reply 14):
Why is it bad to profile that? How is that racist?

By definition racial profiling is racist! Whether it's justified or not is the question, but it's certainly racist.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
I don't look for tall thin white guys selling drugs in Mountain View section of Anchorage and I damn sure don't look for tall thin black guys doing so in Oceanview . . . that is profiling . . . and it works. It's not racist - it's common sense.

Apples and oranges. If you, as an experienced street cop in your area, know where to take a good look at whom, you're not primarily doing racial profiling. You're using your work experience t minimise threats.

Using racial profiling to fight terrorism is a totally different pair of shoes. I won't go into "does it work or not", but of course recent history teaches us that an "Arab-looking" young male is statistically more likely to be terrorist plotting to blow up an airplane than a 60yo WASP corporate criminal using his ripped-off customers' money to pay for FC tickets.

There are criminals in all parts of society, but their crimes aren't the same.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
racial profiling

Please, show me where I said RACIAL profiling. I did not . . . I said Profiling . . . . and I went through a whole litany of explanation, scenarios, examples . . . and apparently, you've missed the point - again. And my point continues to be made:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
good for you and your narrow sense of vision.

Wanna give it another shot?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 17):
I won't go into "does it work or not",

I will, and it does. Simply as that.

And again . . .

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
It is inconvient, it is not fair, it is not politically correct, but - it IS effective.



Quoting Aloges (Reply 17):
a 60yo WASP corporate criminal using his ripped-off customers' money to pay for FC tickets

And those law enforcement types that work those cases, apparently more effectively these days, are certainly not watching the cabbie in Manhattan . . . noooo, they are watching the corporate CEOs that perpetuate this type of crime. Why, because the cabbie doesn't fit the PROFILE. it's not about race, it's about what kind of crime might be committed.

If it's a possibility that AA or BA might have a plane blown up, and history dictates that it's likely to be a young/middle aged radical muslim that will do so, are you going to pay attention to granny with the walker?

It's not apples and oranges, it's good investigative police work.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Please, show me where I said RACIAL profiling. I did not

So then how would you profile? Are you suggesting that you wouldn't profile based upon race?

[Edited 2006-08-11 18:49:11]

User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):

If it's a possibility that AA or BA might have a plane blown up, and history dictates that it's likely to be a young/middle aged radical muslim that will do so, are you going to pay attention to granny with the walker?

So while you didn't say 'racial profiling', you're advocating it. In that case, I'll reitterate the point I've made repeatedly, that you ignore.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 12):

Your idea would destroy much more than any terrorist could. It would destroy our way of life, our ideologies and our beliefs. If you start erroding our liberties and freedoms, there's no telling where it will stop. It's only a tiny leap in argument to go from racial profiling to racial segregation to racial internment.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
certainly not watching the cabbie in Manhattan . . . noooo, they are watching the corporate CEOs that perpetuate this type of crime. Why, because the cabbie doesn't fit the PROFILE.

good point there



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
So then how would you profile? Are you suggesting that you wouldn't profile based upon race?

I'll profile for the type of crime I'm trying to prevent . . . did you not read anything I wrote above? Whether it's jaywalking, drug dealing, street racing, corporate corruption, or blowing up airplanes . . .


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):

I'll profile for the type of crime I'm trying to prevent . . . did you not read anything I wrote above? Whether it's jaywalking, drug dealing, street racing, corporate corruption, or blowing up airplanes . . .

Which is rhetorical gobbledegook to skirt around the issue. You advocate racial profile to prevent terrorist attacks.

Once again:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 12):

Your idea would destroy much more than any terrorist could. It would destroy our way of life, our ideologies and our beliefs. If you start erroding our liberties and freedoms, there's no telling where it will stop. It's only a tiny leap in argument to go from racial profiling to racial segregation to racial internment.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5395 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
I understand completely your point . . . believe me I do.



See my point?

No, I definitely do understand your point, John - there are some instances where profiling will nab down your suspect fairly easily, as you mention. But, terrorism, like most things in our modern society, has become globalized. The guy born in Lebanon whose family died from a 16" round fired by the USS New Jersey is as likely to be a member of Al-Qaeda as the guy who had a relatively privileged life in California as the grandson of a surgeon or the guy born in Brooklyn who's a former Latin King or the guy from France who had no religious education. The only common link being faith and that, at least, is something it seems a bit more difficult to profile for. How do you profile a Sunni (more likely to be a member) than a Shi'ite? How do you profile what I call a BBB Muslim (beer, bacon, babes, ie one who doesn't adhere as strictly) from a devout believer masquerading?



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
25 FDXmech : You answer this quite well. Difficult problems require difficult decisions. No getting around it. You do what must be done.
26 Peterk : Political - and racial - correctness is sweat, as long as you're not sitting in one of the 9 planes, which bombings were prevented due to profiling in
27 777236ER : Which hasn't answered the point I've made. You could take many radical steps in a society to make its safer. There must be a balance between the leve
28 FDXMECH : You are so right. Thanks.
29 ANCFlyer : Nearly impossible in fact . . . No good answer for this. I certainly wouldn't know a Sunni from a Shi'ite or a BBB . . . hell, I wouldn't even know a
30 777236ER : So the problem you admit with your idea is that you don't know who you want to profile! I'm not critisising the TSA, because I don't know enough abou
31 Cedars747 : Have you asked yourself what would happen to B&B company" i mean Bouch and Blair" Alex!!!
32 ANCFlyer : Well - we're already doing that, yet if my memory serves me, there was nearly a disaster in the air this week despite the increased security . . . so
33 777236ER : The 'near disaster' this week had nothing to do with airport security. I'm suggesting security higher than it is now, employing enough, skilled secur
34 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Are you kidding? You are kidding right? The terrorists found a way around tightened security - liquid explosives - or did you miss that whole point??
35 777236ER : They were stopped before they got to airport security. Essentially, the security services worked. If anything it shows a problem with security that w
36 ANCFlyer : No insult intended . . . I was not aware that is considered a slur . . . Your short sighted vision at work again. Do you think that the terrorists si
37 Boeing Nut : You gotta crack a few eggs......... Yea, but the problem is you're still talking about fruit.
38 777236ER : MY short sighted vision? Profiling would not have stopped these planned attacks.
39 Cfalk : Absolutely agree. Today's system of checking for bombs randomly was fine back in the day when a bomb was some sticks of dynamite or a block of Semtex
40 777236ER : Re. CFalk Then again, I don't think you'd be too averse to internment.
41 Cfalk : That is utter bullcrap. The typical chicken-little whining about the sky falling... errr... eroding our liberties. This has nothing to do about loosi
42 Post contains images Cedars747 : What about plastic surgery ? Alex!!!
43 FDXMECH : If you were actually concerned with our way of life and the rights of these minorities you'd better stop these animals and quick. Should these people
44 ANCFlyer : You're catching on . . . . let me reiterate . . . . Expand your vision beyond this past week . . . expand it greatly . . . you're stuck in 2nd gear .
45 Garnetpalmetto : Congratulations. You've just let John Walker Lindh, Adam Gadahn, and Jose Padilla on your aircraft. I'm sure those fine gents won't do a thing. I'll
46 ANCFlyer : Your point is well taken, and I see but one flaw . . . John Walker Lindh, Adam Gadahn, Padilla . . . isolated (if you'll permit the term) cases . . .
47 ANother : I don't agree that profiling would work, not because it is racist but ... (from the BBC) They range in ages between 17 and 36 and are from various add
48 Cfalk : Why wouldn't it work? One of the criteria would be 17-40, male. Nobody is talking about only racial profiling - that is only one of the things that r
49 ANother : My point is that if you profile, you narrow your scope too much. A clean shaven British Passport holding Don Stewart-Whyte going to Disney World would
50 Cfalk : He also might be unlikely to ring any bells. Asking questions is part of the profiling process. They found her by profiling!
51 777236ER : It has nothing to do with losing my or your freedom, no. But racial profile restricts the freedom of one minority. In effect it condemns them to a pr
52 MD80fanatic : As I said so long ago in this thread. We must look for the bombs and not the bombers. For Christ's sake, is that so hard to understand? If we are inte
53 Cfalk : Firstly, it is not a presumption of guilt. We're not advocating that he be immediately arrested, which is what presumption of guilt is. He would simp
54 ANCFlyer : Already made. Those with a modicum of intellect understood it perfectly. I advocate no such thing . . . as I said all along, your narrow vision preve
55 Pulkovokiwi : How true and the Muslim community will have to start policing their own if they dont wish to be stereotyped. Indian communities worldwide have a low
56 MD80fanatic : ~1 billion people have flown since 9-11 (my guesstimate) and ~28 so far have been found to possibly be a bonifide threat to an aircraft(s). So if ever
57 777236ER : But why not? The logical conclusions you make lead directly to segregation and internment? Why are you against that? Any kind of rebuttle to the seve
58 Par13del : Interesting discussion, strong personal opinions also, if I may, I would like to ask a couple quesions. 1. What type of airline security exist on loca
59 ANCFlyer : Waste of time - your mind is closed . . . And if you think I've been insulting - well, I'm sorry you're so easily offended. I'm not sorry for what I
60 CO7e7 : See, that's not going to be an easy thing to do because now you have the internet... unless airlines start doing what FDXMECH said: On the down side
61 777236ER : So you're now admitting that profiling doesn't stop a terrorist act. That 'antiquated dictionary of mine'? What the hell are you talking about? The d
62 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Not at all . . . You are hardheaded about this aren't you . . . Profiling will work, when done properly, and used in conjunction with every other mea
63 11Bravo : How so? Some of that determination depends on the specific civil liberties in question and those differ from country to country. Although I'm not kno
64 777236ER : How would profiling have stopped the attacks two days ago? Are you honestly trying to say that focussing your efforts on one specific group of people
65 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Yes Yes. Anecdotal evidence is no replacement for practical application. Have you ever used Profiling in practical application? I thought not. You're
66 777236ER : If you focus your efforts on 'Middle Eastern-looking' men between the ages of 18-35, then you have to reduce your efforts on all other catagories of
67 MD80fanatic : Can one fly with an airline and choose not to go through the TSA screening system? If so I have not heard of it....and it certainly isn't well publis
68 ANCFlyer : Negative. Your inexperience is showing again. Yes No Your vast experience tells you this? Moral perhaps, practical - not at all. Please review above
69 777236ER : Yet another post where you say a lot of things, but don't answer any of my points. I'll ask the same question I've ask about a dozen times. Do you thi
70 ANCFlyer : Horseshit, I answered them all . . . Let's review:
71 MD80fanatic : Remember the Washington sniper case? We had someone shooting random people in the head and chest from an automobile. He was briefly seen in several di
72 777236ER : I'm talking about the seven, lengthy statements I made in reply 51. Your responses were either a. aimed at discrediting me b. talking about your own
73 Post contains images Cfalk : With great difficulty. Why would any white woman join them? If you hear of any, then you can start looking at their backgrounds and see what indicato
74 Par13del : 777236ER Reply 69 "Do you think that Al Qaeda can't find a dozen white women to blow themselves up?" Good question, I would answer that question with
75 Cfalk : If you owned or rented your own plane you would not have any such problems. Nor if you drove. Your rights have much less bearing when you use public
76 777236ER : I don't think you can justify that. Whilst it's logical that it would be more difficult to find white women, you can't claim it's impossible, or even
77 ANCFlyer : Geezus - read it again. If the answers aren't good enough for you then that's simply tough shit. Sure, anything is possible. Hell, I could be elected
78 11Bravo : With all due respect, you have made some rather serious claims that people's fundamental civil rights are, or would be, violated by profiling. That d
79 777236ER : So you've moved on from your initial post which said, quite simple, 'PROFILE!', to agree with me that technology is the key to airport security. But
80 SlamClick : One huge mistake evident in the thinking of those here opposed to 'profiling' is that you think it goes like this: "Hey, that guy looks like one of th
81 Gkirk : You can't really profile anyone as a terrorist nowadays, no matter how easy. After all, the IRA weren't Muslims? The Oklahoma bomber wasn't a Muslim?
82 777236ER : I think you're pushing a point a bit. Civil rights can be subjective, and it doesn't take a lawyer to talk about them. I can legitimately say that a
83 777236ER : Yes, that's fine. Better intelligence, things like allowing the use of phone taps in court cases (which doesn't happen in the UK!), better funding et
84 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Did you miss this part: Kirkie, perhaps you'd better read this entire thread . . . you missed the mark in a big way . . . Both the IRA and the Oklaho
85 777236ER : I don't really know what you're replying to, but nevertheless, you only mentioned 'other techniques' after you'd posted 12 times.
86 Post contains images Gkirk : Too long to read
87 11Bravo : Why? What legal protections or processes are being denied to that person? What specific legal jeopardy are they being subjected to? Civil liberties a
88 777236ER : Sorry, I don't buy this in the slightest. Your argument suggests that ideas against slavery were 'weak and unconvincing' merely because they weren't
89 Post contains links Cfalk : Quoting 777236ER (Reply 76): Consider El Al. Everyone gets an interview, all luggage is passed through a decompression chamber. Everyone gets a BASIC
90 11Bravo : The 14th Amendment is relevant to State laws that seek to deny persons the equal protection of the laws. First of all airport security is not a matte
91 Cfalk : I don't think anyone proposed that. Race is but one element of a proper profiling system. Exactly. If he was denied a place on the plane purely becau
92 Post contains links Jaysit : The usual suspects on this site who prattle on and on about how wonderful racial profiling is and how it will save all our butts should be advised to
93 ANCFlyer : Well that leave 16 assholes that could have been intercepted . . . and theoretically that would have meant 1 or 2 planes going down, not a dozen. Not
94 Cfalk : Like who? I think you need to read a bit more of the thread.
95 FDXMECH : It seems those against using profiling as a tool for security either say it's immoral or put up a straw man argument of only olive skinned Muhammed M
96 11Bravo : I am under no illusion that profiling based on ethnicity, race, or nationality is some sort of magic solution to the aviation security problem. As yo
97 Post contains images DavestanKSAN : Great examples of how correct profiling works, and it should be done like this. The main problem I think people have is when authority figures automa
98 Post contains links 777236ER : Regarding the Constitutional legalities of racial profiling, I would much rather trust the legal understanding of former Attorney General John Ashcrof
99 LHMARK : Personally, I'm starting to sway in favor of profiling. Question, when is the peaceful moderate Muslim community going to start curbing the dogs? The
100 Par13del : From 777236ER Reply 98 "Regarding the Constitutional legalities of racial profiling, I would much rather trust the legal understanding of former Attor
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