Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Egyptian Students Nabbed - Wasted $$$  
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1161 times:

Finally, the current segment the US Government fear-mongering program has come to a close. 11 Egyptian students fail to show up for college and, by the grace of God, all are now in custody (sarcasm).

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060814/ap_on_re_us/egyptians_missing_1

In that article (and every piece about these kids since it all started) they are made to sound as if there is a very real possibility that they could be in some way involved with the dreaded islamofascists. When you get to the bottom of the article, though, you see the real truth.

None of the students is considered a terrorism risk.

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot? I guess we have yet another example of how well profiling works, huh? A bunch of 20 year olds are only perhaps a day or two late to a actually worthless college orientation session, and the glorious Homeland security establishment swings into high gear. How embarrassing for our country, thanks guys.  no 

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1159 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
In that article (and every piece about these kids since it all started) they are made to sound as if there is a very real possibility that they could be in some way involved with the dreaded islamofascists.

You're gonna have to point that out to me. I didn't see it.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
None of the students is considered a terrorism risk.

That doesn't mean that they're not a seciruty risk. It doesn't mean that they didn't break the conditions of their visas. It doesn't mean they didn't become illegal aliens. They broke the law.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
worthless college orientation session

That is entirely irrelevant.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
How embarrassing for our country

I think you are an embarrassment to our country.

BAB  no 



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1154 times:

Showed up a day or two late?

The last two were caught in Virginia. Others were caught in MN, NJ, MD, IL, and IA. They were supposed to be in MT. You might want to look at a map of the US, but none of those other states are actually IN Montana.

They may not be terrorists, but they are undeniably in violation of their visas. Round 'em up and ship 'em home


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1141 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What were they doing instead of being where they were supposed to be under the terms of their visas?

Who were some of the specific people that conducted the 9-11 attacks? "Students", some of whom violated their visa terms. Things tightened up.

I'd say I'm glad DHS is paying attention and finding these people to ask them what they're up to. If it's nothing then why aren't they where they're supposed to be? They aren't citizens, they're here at our sufferance.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Guys guys guys. Why don't you put me in jail just for bringing it up?  rotfl 
We have thousands of people each week overstay their visas....we have millions and millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, yet not a peep in the papers...much less a daily droning on about just a handful.

You need to get some perspective, and quit being such namby pamby freightened little members of society. Unbelievable.


User currently offlineMigfan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1138 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
We have thousands of people each week overstay their visas....we have millions and millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, yet not a peep in the papers...much less a daily droning on about just a handful.

That doesn't make it right?

These kids were out buying disposable cellphones, right? What for?

/M


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1130 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Guys guys guys. Why don't you put me in jail just for bringing it up?

Your perception of persecution, not our reality

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
We have thousands of people each week overstay their visas....

ICE needs to get busy

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
....we have millions and millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, yet not a peep in the papers...much less a daily droning on about just a handful.

When was the last time an illegal immigrant from Mexico committed an act of terrorism?

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
You need to get some perspective, and quit being such namby pamby freightened little members of society. Unbelievable.

If ICE had completely ignored eleven middle eastern students who violated their visas, disappeared into the US, then later committed terrorists acts.. would you be defending ICE's non-action?

Quoting Migfan (Reply 5):
These kids were out buying disposable cellphones, right? What for?

Different case.

[Edited 2006-08-14 15:29:44]

User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

My point being (in case you missed it, or I misstated it)...that this was really NOT news. It was certainly not worthy of front page headline coverage. What it did do was give the illusion that something is being done to thwart terrorism in America.

Shall we issue APBs for each and every person who overstays their visa? Or shall we focus ONLY on the muslims who overstay?


User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1124 times:

Quoting Migfan (Reply 5):
These kids were out buying disposable cellphones, right? What for?

I see people buying these each and every day at Walgreens. And your point is ......?


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1115 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 8):
uoting Migfan (Reply 5):
These kids were out buying disposable cellphones, right? What for?

I see people buying these each and every day at Walgreens. And your point is ......?

This is a very fair question.

One of the ways to defeat cell phone monitoring by NSA or anyone else is to use a disposable phone from another area entirely once and throw it away so no one can track what phone number you are using. This has become common practice for criminals, terrorists, and others who wish to use low tech methods to defeat phone monitoring. If the listeners don't know what phone number you're using next, and aren't in line of sight they have a really difficult time figuring out which signal is yours. You can be fairly assured of remaining untapped and speak about whatever. The trail to you will be skewed by the phone number and the fact it was only used once or twice.

Now....why did these guys get into this 'business'? If the legitimate demand for trac phones was this high wouldn't Wal-Mart simply stock enough in the high demand areas instead of allowing a competing black market to develop?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1107 times:

Ummm, I only need to sit here and remain silent.....and my fellow countrymen will continue to make my point for me. Incredible! Unbelievable!  banghead 

User currently offlineMigfan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 8):
I see people buying these each and every day at Walgreens. And your point is ......?

They were buying thousands of them. Either they are starting their own wireless carrier, or they really really like the phones. Please, you know as well as everyone else knows that these phones were to be used for neferious purposes. Playing devil's advocate on this issue is point-less. THEY GOT CAUGHT, face it. If they are truly innocent, then justice will prevail in their favor.

I am glad you are not in charge of DHS...

/M


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
I guess we have yet another example of how well profiling works, huh?

This has nothing to do with Profiling . . . quite a stretch there . . . in fact, completely off base.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
A bunch of 20 year olds are only perhaps a day or two late to a actually worthless college orientation session, and the glorious Homeland security establishment swings into high gear.

You know where these men were and what they were really doing? You really want to take the chance?

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
perhaps a day or two late

You must use a different calendar than I.

They arrived 7/29 and the last one was apprehended and this article is written 8/13 . . . given two days for the news to hit the presses, but my calendar they were unaccounted for nearly two weeks . . .

Lets not even discuss the fact they were supposed to be in Montana and they were spread about this country like cow shit in a pasture . . . IA, VA, MD, IL . . . .

Visa violations at the minimum.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
We have thousands of people each week overstay their visas

Also unacceptable. DHS needs to get on top of it . . .

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 8):
Quoting Migfan (Reply 5):
These kids were out buying disposable cellphones, right? What for?

I see people buying these each and every day at Walgreens. And your point is ......?

DL021 beat me to it . . . good answer Ian.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1065 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
In that article (and every piece about these kids since it all started) they are made to sound as if there is a very real possibility that they could be in some way involved with the dreaded islamofascists. When you get to the bottom of the article, though, you see the real truth.

None of the students is considered a terrorism risk.

Sure - we know that now. But we didn't know it when they initially didn't turn up.

It's real easy to play monday morning quarterback, isn't it?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 2):
Showed up a day or two late?

The last two were caught in Virginia. Others were caught in MN, NJ, MD, IL, and IA. They were supposed to be in MT. You might want to look at a map of the US, but none of those other states are actually IN Montana.

They may not be terrorists, but they are undeniably in violation of their visas. Round 'em up and ship 'em home

 checkmark 

Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
I'd say I'm glad DHS is paying attention and finding these people to ask them what they're up to. If it's nothing then why aren't they where they're supposed to be? They aren't citizens, they're here at our sufferance.

 checkmark 

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Guys guys guys. Why don't you put me in jail just for bringing it up?
We have thousands of people each week overstay their visas....we have millions and millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, yet not a peep in the papers...much less a daily droning on about just a handful.

Yes, we do. But none of the illegal Mexicans have, up to this point, been involved in terrorist acts against the US, have they?

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 7):
Shall we issue APBs for each and every person who overstays their visa? Or shall we focus ONLY on the muslims who overstay?

We should focus on whomever presents the most significant threat, based on a rational threat analysis. If you are suggesting that Mexicans pose a greater threat than muslim students, given the events of the past decade, you are hopelessly deluded.


User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1060 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
None of the students is considered a terrorism risk.

But all 11 broke the immigration laws. Clearly they were not here to "study", and had other plans--more than likely get a job, send money home, and hang out at titty bars.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 6):
When was the last time an illegal immigrant from Mexico committed an act of terrorism?

...well ask victims of crime committed by an illegal mexican whether or not they feel warm and fuzzy about the fact that they were not victims of terrorism.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
You need to get some perspective

There is no "perspective" when it comes to violations of the law. The only "perspective" is to incarcerate them and allow the legal process to works its magic.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 9):
One of the ways to defeat cell phone monitoring by NSA or anyone else is to use a disposable phone from another area entirely once and throw it away so no one can track what phone number you are using. This has become common practice for criminals, terrorists, and others who wish to use low tech methods to defeat phone monitoring. If the listeners don't know what phone number you're using next, and aren't in line of sight they have a really difficult time figuring out which signal is yours. You can be fairly assured of remaining untapped and speak about whatever. The trail to you will be skewed by the phone number and the fact it was only used once or twice.

HUH?? They can monitor them. NSA can monitor everything--NSA can listen to every single call in the US/EUROPE/ME. All the NSA has to do is to program the system to listen for specific words, language, statements, and the call gets flagged for further analysis. Changing phones like a girl changes underwear only defeats immediate real-time intell.



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1043 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 14):
HUH?? They can monitor them. NSA can monitor everything--NSA can listen to every single call in the US/EUROPE/ME. All the NSA has to do is to program the system to listen for specific words, language, statements, and the call gets flagged for further analysis. Changing phones like a girl changes underwear only defeats immediate real-time intell.

That's right....they can monitor millions of these calls. But unless they know who owns the number, or it's used often enough, then they can't catch the people, and are hard pressed to sift through the millions of calls made every hour.

The NSA is not omniscient.....just really good.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1040 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
are hard pressed to sift through the millions of calls made every hour.

That's the easy part for the NSA--it's a cinch for them.



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1013 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
A bunch of 20 year olds are only perhaps a day or two late to a actually worthless college orientation session, and the glorious Homeland security establishment swings into high gear.

You know where these men were and what they were really doing? You really want to take the chance?

Who cares what they were doing....the article stated they were NOT a terrorist threat. I never attended a single pre-class orientation my entire college history....in fact I was partying like a big dog the entire time....again...so what?

We need to show our high-tuition paying visitors a little more respect. If they violated their visas then deal with that promptly. However....issuing a nationwide alert (scare) was not at all necessary. If two dozen Swedish students were found to not be where they should be when the should be...it would be a non-issue and you know it.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 13):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Guys guys guys. Why don't you put me in jail just for bringing it up?
We have thousands of people each week overstay their visas....we have millions and millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, yet not a peep in the papers...much less a daily droning on about just a handful.

Yes, we do. But none of the illegal Mexicans have, up to this point, been involved in terrorist acts against the US, have they?

In 2003, it was widely reported that al Queda operatives were crossing our southern border disguised as Mexican people. Have you conveniently forgotten that? Of course.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Why don't you put me in jail just for bringing it up?

Sure. Then we can listen to you bitch about your treatment at gitmo.... Look I dont understand why you are so upset by this. They broke the law. I dont care if their balck, white, tan, yellow, green or goddam polka dotted. They broke immigration law. Period, game over next effin case...



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1009 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 13):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Guys guys guys. Why don't you put me in jail just for bringing it up?
We have thousands of people each week overstay their visas....we have millions and millions of illegal aliens from Mexico, yet not a peep in the papers...much less a daily droning on about just a handful.

Yes, we do. But none of the illegal Mexicans have, up to this point, been involved in terrorist acts against the US, have they?

In 2003, it was widely reported that al Queda operatives were crossing our southern border disguised as Mexican people. Have you conveniently forgotten that? Of course.

I haven't forgotten it. But they were in fact muslims disguised as mexicans, not just mexicans crossing the border looking for work.

Are you going to seriously maintain we should focus all our immigration enforcement evenly across the board?


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
If two dozen Swedish students were found to not be where they should be when the should be...it would be a non-issue and you know it.

True.
Because history has taught us that Swedes are not a threat to our security.

How about if two dozen Israelis were missing inside a Muslim nation?

Oh, wait a minute, Israelis are pretty much not invited to enter Muslim nations.

The point is that each country must assess what the actual current threats to the their security are. On an impersonal checklist, if you will, of 500 traits and characteristics these young Muslim males of military age tick off a much higher percentage than Eskimos do. Generalization is, and always has been a shortcut to analysis. It is never the final process but it is always one of the early sifting tools. That is true here in the US and it is true whereever in the world intel is practiced.

We did the right thing all along with these guys. The only thing our government might actually be criticized for is not enough surveillance on them.

BTW, anyone, any Muslim from the most remote oasis in the southern Sahara who is of sufficient academic accomplishment to be attending college in the USA has heard about 9/11 and Gitmo and a dozen other buzzwords I might throw in. These guys were APPREHENDED, they did not turn themselves in. Don't be obtuse about this. No one can prove an assertion such as:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Thread starter):
None of the students is considered a terrorism risk

If nothing else the search for them diverted assets away from searching for those who are known to be threats. This does not make them our friends.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 992 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 7):
Or shall we focus ONLY on the muslims who overstay?

Sounds like a good place to start given the past events in the last decade.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
If two dozen Swedish students were found to not be where they should be when the should be...it would be a non-issue and you know it.

Since you don't seem to get it through your thick skull...Swedes didn't bring terrorism to our country in the past! Not to say they won't in the future but right now they aren't the threat. Who cares if they have since been cleared of being a terrorist threat...during their disappearance they had to be considered as such given the past events and their violaton of their visas.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 992 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
If two dozen Swedish students were found to not be where they should be when the should be...it would be a non-issue and you know it.

The Swedes, as far as I can tell, haven't been blowing shit up for the last decade and a half . . . unless I missed something?

You really need a dose of a sense of reality . . .

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 17):
We need to show our high-tuition paying visitors a little more respect.

 redflag  Respect is earned, not given away. Certainly, anyone entering the country, with or without a visa, and immediately - immediately - violating the law and the terms of the visa do not and should not earn anyone's respect. Unless that person is delusional of course.


User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 981 times:

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 18):
Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 4):
Why don't you put me in jail just for bringing it up?

Sure. Then we can listen to you bitch about your treatment at gitmo....

So it's gitmo for me? I am not entitled to enjoy the facilities provided for non-terrorism related citizens? Now I see where you are coming from, comrade. God help us.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 19):
Are you going to seriously maintain we should focus all our immigration enforcement evenly across the board?



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 20):
True.
Because history has taught us that Swedes are not a threat to our security.



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 21):
Sounds like a good place to start given the past events in the last decade.



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 21):
Since you don't seem to get it through your thick skull...Swedes didn't bring terrorism to our country in the past! Not to say they won't in the future but right now they aren't the threat. Who cares if they have since been cleared of being a terrorist threat...during their disappearance they had to be considered as such given the past events and their violaton of their visas.



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 22):
The Swedes, as far as I can tell, haven't been blowing shit up for the last decade and a half . . . unless I missed something?

You really need a dose of a sense of reality . . .

Okay already.....you have all proven your point that we do indeed profile based on race only. Excellent!!! I'm glad we finally hammered that out after a few failed topics the last few days. Thanks for your honesty.  thumbsup 


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 974 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 23):
you have all proven your point that we do indeed profile based on race only.

Muslim isn't a race you buffoon! It is a religion and one that has a subset of loons hell bent on destroying western culture.

Edit: Typo

[Edited 2006-08-14 18:36:59]


"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
25 Post contains images MD80fanatic : Name Calling: That's one more point against you and your form of argumentation. Now, can you justify profiling people based only on their religion?
26 DL021 : Stop making sense! How dare you? Dude, seriously, have you considered how racist that comment is all by itself?
27 DeltaGator : Yes, I realize I fail Debate 101 with that one but oh well...call it like you see it. If it is a religion that is known to blow stuff and people up i
28 SlamClick : No, not that we DO but rather that we SHOULD. Except for that "only" part you saw fit to add. None of us proposed any such thing. Okay, while we are
29 Post contains images MD80fanatic : Break it out if you want....but I have to go to work. Back later.
30 Post contains images Migfan : Exactly ! That depends on how one would feel about ikea, or Abba... I am coming from the same place, tavarish. Well... I'll start by saying that prof
31 Post contains images Halls120 : Are you trying to be obtuse, or does it just come naturally? None of have said that race is the only factor used in evaluating a potential threat. Bu
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
11 Egyptian Students No Show At College posted Wed Aug 9 2006 13:47:49 by LTBEWR
Help Finding Egyptian/Arabic DVDs posted Thu Dec 7 2006 19:47:58 by RJpieces
Any Science Students/Graduates Here? posted Sat Nov 25 2006 06:23:18 by ACB777
Students At Risk Of Contracting Hepatitis C posted Mon Nov 6 2006 14:44:07 by Dtwclipper
Young Indian Students Dress Like Their Dads posted Mon Apr 24 2006 01:24:14 by YAK42
Students Arrested For Planning Another "Columbine" posted Fri Apr 21 2006 17:31:29 by Greyhound
Europeans: Help Traveling Students posted Wed Apr 19 2006 03:39:19 by FlyVirgin744
Egyptian Cruise Ship Has Disappeared posted Fri Feb 3 2006 11:51:52 by Jap
University Students: What Classes This Semester? posted Wed Jan 18 2006 05:40:39 by ArmitageShanks
Good Luck Students... posted Tue Jan 10 2006 11:05:16 by Atco2b