Birdwatching From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3573 posts, RR: 52 Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2674 times:
I've crossed the USA 4 times coast-to-coast-roundtrip in my 1996 Volkswagen T4 Bus, and I've wondered about the steady retreat of this wonderful car from the USA. In the 70s, the Microbus (Transporter or "T" in Germany) was an unmistakable icon of a whole generation, with hundreds of thousands of them rolling around the US. They were affordable, spacious, had an automatic transmission and you could replace the big round VW logo with a peace sign.
VW launched the T3 in the 80s, and on all of my travels I've hardly seen any of those, except a handful in California. The T4 of the 90s was a little more popular due to a Winnebago conversion (The EuroVan), and as the base of the Rialta, but I've seen less than a dozen regular T4 Busses in the USA. Now there's the T5, and I have yet to spot one stateside.
Why was the Microbus such a huge success in the US, and the subsequent models (all 5 pictured below) are extremely rare, to the extent that you can't even buy or order one from a VW dealer? (Have to get them from Canada)
(By the way, VW Bus drivers wave to each other in the USA, it makes my day when I meet one in traffic in New York and wave to the driver. HOWEVER, in California they'll cluelessly stare at you because VW Busses are more common there, and drivers don't seem to wave at each other any more than Neon or Focus drivers do)
Soren
[Edited 2006-08-15 22:35:23]
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
Vivek0072 From India, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2648 times:
I would like to think mini vans ( which are almost the size of full blown vans) like Toyota Sienna , Honda Odyssey and the Nissan Quest have taken the share away.
Moreover I haven't seen a commercial by VW for the microbus in the US for some time, I see more of the Jetta ads.
That life's most failures were people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up. - Edison.
EasternSon From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 660 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2635 times:
Quoting CFCUQ (Reply 2): The proportionate population of hippies to drive them has decreased
And because their microbuses can't run on patchouli oil and stupid idealism.
Seriously though, my sister and her husband wanted to buy one now that they've started a family. Turns out the things don't get great mileage and have very bad crash-test ratings.
"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
Birdwatching From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3573 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2603 times:
That is not correct. In fact they get great ratings in Europe, also in a VW Bus you're higher than most of the rest of the traffic. In the US it's different because of all the tanks, ehm, trucks.
Quoting EasternSon (Reply 3): Turns out the things don't get great mileage
Checkraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2594 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 6): Halfway correct. Expensive yes, but the quality of VWs tends to be great.
Not in the last 10 years. At least in my (and others I know) experience. Especially the Mexican VW's.
Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 5): You think that VWs are overpriced in the US of A? Come to Germany and check out their prices, you will faint!
How much does a new Jetta cost in Deutchland these days? I assume it's not the same Mexican shitbox they sell here.
(A.net PC disclaimer - I have no problem with Mexicans (unless they are residing here illegally , but the cars manufactured in Puebla leave a lot to be desired.)
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2592 times:
1. The post-1967 ones aren't VW Microbus' They were never worthy.
2. Of the US population of VW buses that survived as of May 4, 1970 (Kent State - the official last date it was cool to be a hippie)
56% of the remainder are still in US customs impound.
12% cannot be driven anywhere near a drug-sniffing dog.
22% are rusting away in Oregon
02% are rusting away in other states.
01% are on eBay at this moment.
07% are in faculty parking lots at community colleges around the Pacific northwest.
02% are parked on the sidewalk in the Fillmore district and Cow Hollow in San Francisco.
And one lone example has completed a frame-off restoration in the shops at Blackhawk but they cannot bring themselves to display it alongside Deusenbergs and Isotta-Fraschinis.
Now I know that does not add up to 100% but the figures were given to me by my token liberal friend. He drives one, and he usually smells funny.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
TheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3347 posts, RR: 30 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2565 times:
The newest VW microbus (T5) is simply too expensive in Germany.
Bad mileage... Well that might be true for the gasoline powered versions, but if you buy a TDI (I fear the best engines are unfortunately not for sale in the US), it would be a completely different thing...
With a nice TDI engine, you can drive almost 200km/h (120mph) in a VW bus safely. Of course, fuel consumption above 130 km/h is getting enormous.
Fuel Consumption at various speeds: (litres/100km)
100km/h 7,4 l/100km (around 33MPG at 60mph)
130km/h 10,1 l/100km (24,7 MPG at 81mph)
188km/h (Vmax) 19,6l / 100km (12,7 MPG at 117,5MPH)
Source: AutoBild, May 12th, 2006.
I would not call that fuel consumption too bad. Maybe they should sell Diesel engines in the US, too...
AA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13975 posts, RR: 59 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2528 times:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are ugly...Is that a possibility of why they are disappearing?
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2519 times:
Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 12): I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are ugly...Is that a possibility of why they are disappearing?
Too expensive.
I had a 1963 microbus with 40 massive horsepower, and later a 1973 Westphalia camper van. Loved them both, especially the camper. Lots of fond memories with that one.
Cptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2548 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2491 times:
Hmmm...obvious...no market demand to keep the product a feasible entry. It's called (horrors!) capitalism. Regards..jack
Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5670 posts, RR: 29 Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2443 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 8): Of the US population of VW buses that survived as of May 4, 1970 (Kent State
I always thought that Kent State deal was blown out of proportion. My dad, a college graduate, was fighting it out in Vietnam and it seemed like most people only gave a damn about the hippies and Kent State. Most Hippies today and the neoclassical hippies have never lived in the real world. There was a bunch of the neoclassic hippies around when I was in college and they knew nothing about getting along in the world. If people weren't happy about diversity and smoking dope they didn't get it.
As far as the VW thing goes. I think plenty of people are freaked out by the high cost of owning a VW here in the USA. Cost of repairs is outrageous. I have a friend who is a service writer at a VW dealer and he talks about losing customers everyday because of the cost of repairs. People buy a VW once and that is it. He talks about the VW Jetta people being the most knowledgeable and the Toureg people being the least. $2000 dollar starters are never good for customer relation. There are always people who will love them, the way I love Mercedes-Benz diesels, but most people don't like the repair bills. That really is depressing because VW was once a car that eveyone could fix at a low cost.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 80 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2411 times:
EasternSon From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 660 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2371 times:
Most of the hippies I encounter these days are Trustifarians.
They drive new Nissan Pathfinders or Jeep Grand Cherokees and bitch about the environment while getting 13 mpg.
I would like to set some of them on fire.
"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
CO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2848 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2361 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 8): Of the US population of VW buses that survived as of May 4, 1970 (Kent State - the official last date it was cool to be a hippie)
That's my Alma Mater... i still work there! Not too many hippies on campus..
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2356 times:
All the complaining about high buying prices...
Simple solution, don't buy it, lease it. Not sure how things work at VW, but from Opel, we got our Vectra, with all the sh!tbangabang, as a leased car, for €8,000 under list price. Okay, it doesn't have a "Rußpartikelfilter", but regardless, if you know how to talk, you can save lots of money when buying/leasing car. Now, insurance is another story .
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2349 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 23): Simple solution, don't buy it, lease it. Not sure how things work at VW, but from Opel, we got our Vectra, with all the sh!tbangabang, as a leased car, for €8,000 under list price.
Who wants to own an Opel and even worse a Vectra
Quoting Birdwatching (Thread starter): I've wondered about the steady retreat of this wonderful car from the USA.
Me, too. I think I have seen a T4 called Eurovan once as I have been to the states. I always thought that it would be a perfect car to have especially in the States. It is very spacious and comfortable to drive especially the Tdi versions are great.
A few weeks I had the oppurtunity to drive some great new cars one of them being a T5 , it had all extras you could think of much, from comfort point of view it was much better than the BMW 5series, A6 and the Mercedes E-class I drove shortly after -although the BMW was the most fun to drive.....
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
25 Checkraiser: As for the lack of diesels: Our emission laws are getting too tough to make them economically viable. The Jeep Liberty was launched with a diesel las
26 Columba: Well here in Europe we also have very strict emission law and with a particulate filter it would be no problem to make them economically viable, espe
27 DAL767400ER: Didn't say we own it . Besides, it is a great car (like Opel in general, but that's probably getting too off-topic), with good economics.
30 DYflyer: Wow! I wish the cars were that cheap here in Norway. Add 11.500 EUR for our price. And no that is not just the Jetta that is overpriced. That is what
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Come to Germany and check out their prices, you will faint!
, but the cars manufactured in Puebla leave a lot to be desired.)
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