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Mankind At Its Worst: Khiyam Prison  
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1673 times:

Reports are appearing that the Khiyam prison complex, which was used by the South Lebanon Army (SLA) militia up until the Israeli defeat in 2000 was destroyed by the Israelis (surprise, surprise), as it was being used as a museum to show just how terrible the conditions were in the prison.

The Khiyam prison was used by the SLA, under the full consent of the Israelis, to impriosn both Lebanese and Palestinians, and employed some of the most disgusting and disturbing methods of torture I have ever heard of. Electronic Intifada has pictures from the prison, but even these do not show the true horror of the prison - prisoners were tortured by passing electricity through their fingers and penises, by making prisoners listen to spouses and family members get tortured, sticking prisoners in 90cmx90cm cells for weeks, and many other horrible types of torture.

The thing that is most shocking (well, not really...) about Khiyam is the level of Israeli involvment - the SLA was funded and supported in full by Israel, and there are many prisoner testimonials which speak of Israeli officers being involved in torturing them, teaching the SLA guards how to use effective torture methods, and prisoners hearing Hebrew being spoken around them while hooded during torture. After the Israeli withdrawal in 2000 and the collapse of the SLA, Israel took in many SLA members and granted them citizenship - and many did stay in Israel, despite Hezbollah allowing SLA members to return to the south without harming them.

Now, 6 years on, the Israelis have bombed the prison, a testiment to the horrors in Lebanon during the Israeli occupation - you be the judge, was it done on purpose or by mistake? To me, its way too convenient that a prison so closely associated with Israel's horrific actions in Lebanon was bombed by "accident". Ironically, the prison is sometimes called the Lebanese Auschwitz...

Further reading, very interesting but also very horrific (no graphic images):

Detailed eyewitness accounts from the prisoners themselves:
http://www.inminds.co.uk/khiam-prison.html

Human Rights Watch report:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/1999/10/28/israb12795.htm

BBC story on the prison from 2000:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/766746.stm

Thoughts?

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

My thoughts? All I see is a building, somewhere in a desert. If I choose to believe the accompanying text, it might be a jail. I don't see a single photograph of any 'torture' device, no restraints, just a box with a cartoon painted inside it.

I didn't check on the other links.

Anyway, I don't see much point to this thread. I think every one on this planet has already choses sides.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):
My thoughts? All I see is a building, somewhere in a desert. If I choose to believe the accompanying text, it might be a jail. I don't see a single photograph of any 'torture' device, no restraints, just a box with a cartoon painted inside it.

I didn't check on the other links.

Then why are you even bothering to reply? The other links confirm how terrible this place was and give a lot of insight as to what happened in the prison.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):
Anyway, I don't see much point to this thread. I think every one on this planet has already choses sides.

This isn't about choosing sides, its about showing the horror of what happened in Lebanon during the civil war at the hands of both the Lebanese themselves and the Israelis.


User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
Then why are you even bothering to reply?



Whoa! Take a chill pill, or its desert equivalent! Let the guy speak his mind.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):


This isn't about choosing sides, its about showing the horror of what happened in Lebanon during the civil war at the hands of both the Lebanese themselves and the Israelis.

No doubt that horros occur during civil wars, just like they occur at this moment in the Bekaa Valley at the hands of Hezbollah and its Syrian and Iranian controllers. I wonder if all foreign powers, specially the outsider moslem countries that are intent on controlling Lebanon thru their puppet terrorist force, kept their hands off Lebanon, what the end result would be.

p.s. Manking at its worse is found in a lot of places, not only in a prison during a civil war.

[Edited 2006-08-17 16:11:48]


MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 2):
Then why are you even bothering to reply? The other links confirm how terrible this place was and give a lot of insight as to what happened in the prison.

They tell us how terrible it was before 2000, if you are to believe the reports.

Tell us, what would be the point in destroying the building as a cover up when hezbollah has been in control of the facility for six years now?


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1621 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 3):
Whoa! Take a chill pill, or its desert equivalent! Let the guy speak his mind.

I have nothing against him speaking his mind, but when he claims that he isn't even sure if the text is believable after I provided 4 different links verifying it, which he didn't even bother clicking, then he really shouldn't bother posting.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 3):
No doubt that horros occur during civil wars, just like they occur at this moment in the Bekaa Valley at the hands of Hezbollah and its Syrian and Iranian controllers.

 rotfl  What horrors would that be? Please, show me any horror that Hezbollah has committed against Lebanese people in the Bekaa Valley, and take whatever you want from me.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 3):
I wonder if all foreign powers, specially the outsider moslem countries that are intent on controlling Lebanon thru their puppet terrorist force, kept their hands off Lebanon, what the end result would be

You see, this is the Fox News image exactly - Iran is controlling Lebanon and Hezbollah. Hezbollah is an independant organisation with close ties to Iran, it in no way represents Iran in Lebanon nor does it control Lebanon. Hezbollah is an independant organisation that is exteremley important to the Shi'aa community in the country, as Hezbollah provides them with many services they would not get otherwise.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 3):
p.s. Manking at its worse is found in a lot of places, not only in a prison during a civil war.

But this comes pretty damn close - you want to talk about terrorist factions? This thread provides the perfect example: Israel and the SLA. Why aren't Israel not branded terrorist supporters? I mean, surely the above actions are more than enough to warrant the SLA being called a terrorist faction, and since Israel not only fully supported them, but have also provided them with citizenship, it should be branded as a terrorist-supporting country.

Now, can we please stick to the topic at hand?


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 4):
They tell us how terrible it was before 2000, if you are to believe the reports.

Tell us, what would be the point in destroying the building as a cover up when hezbollah has been in control of the facility for six years now?

It is all up there bout how horrible the place was before 2000 - imagine being made to watch your spouse being tortured through electrecution and other methods and not being able to do anything, or being hung by a pole for hours. Whats wrong, too frightened to find out what kind of people Israel supported up until 2000?

And as for what the point would be, its very simple: since 2000, the Khiyam prison has been a museum open to the public, which allows people to see the horrors of what the Israel-supported SLA did. By destroying this building, much fewer people will be able to see the kind of things Israel supported, and is basically erasing part of the country's dark past in Lebanon.


User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
What horrors would that be? Please, show me any horror that Hezbollah has committed against Lebanese people in the Bekaa Valley, and take whatever you want from me.

Mmmm....let's see, come over to 1600 Penn Ave., NW, Wash DC, and insult "W" all you want. Nothing will happen to you. Now what would happen to any Lebanese that was to gander tomorrow over to the Bekaa and set up a speaker's area and begin to call Nasrallah "Iran's Bitch"?? Would he be safe?

So YOU PROVE TO THE WORLD that Hezbollah has never committed a single attrocity, a single act of political oppression, a single act of political execution and I'll believe you.

We're all waiting.



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1593 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 6):
It is all up there bout how horrible the place was before 2000

Yes I know. I looked through you links and sought out some other information on the former prison. I can't help but notice that many of the reports widely varied and were often contradictory. Especially concerning the pressance of Isreali military troops, which varied between once every couple of months to constantly present. Nor can I believe that hearing hebrew spoken means anything, other than someone heard hebrew spoken. Language isn't genetic. I believe that as in all cases, the real truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

As for erasing the past, surely you must know that oral tradition is often far stronger than anything tangible.


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 7):
Mmmm....let's see, come over to 1600 Penn Ave., NW, Wash DC, and insult "W" all you want. Nothing will happen to you. Now what would happen to any Lebanese that was to gander tomorrow over to the Bekaa and set up a speaker's area and begin to call Nasrallah "Iran's Bitch"?? Would he be safe?

So YOU PROVE TO THE WORLD that Hezbollah has never committed a single attrocity, a single act of political oppression, a single act of political execution and I'll believe you.

Why are you trying to turn attention away from your claim that horrors occur in the Bekaa Valley at the hands of Hezbollah?

I have no idea about what would happen, but it would probably be more of an ass kicking by the people there than being locked up - Lebanon has freedom of speech, believe it or not. Would I not get an ass kicking if I went to rural Texas and started screaming out that Republicans suck? Also, considering your own country, the shining beacon of freedom, has committed acts of political oppression and many political actions that have changed the course of many countries, I wouldn't be pointing fingers if I were you.

Now, can we please stick to the subject?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
Yes I know. I looked through you links and sought out some other information on the former prison. I can't help but notice that many of the reports widely varied and were often contradictory. Especially concerning the pressance of Isreali military troops, which varied between once every couple of months to constantly present. Nor can I believe that hearing hebrew spoken means anything, other than someone heard hebrew spoken. Language isn't genetic. I believe that as in all cases, the real truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Indeed, the reports to vary as to the frequency of the visits, but that is probably due to different prisoners remembering different things which are not always correct. But, one thing is consistent - there were Israeli soldiers present. Also, as for the Hebrew being spoken, I am sure it is much more likely that two SLA soldiers would communicate in Arabic and would not know Hebrew; even if they did, why would they use the language? The truth is indeed probably somewhere in the middle, but one thing is for certain - the Israelis were fully aware and fully supported the whole venture. The SLA, FYI, supported the Phalange militia during the Sabra and Shatila massacres in 1982 (where 2,000 Palestinian refugees were murdered), and all of it was committed under the watch of Israeli troops.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
As for erasing the past, surely you must know that oral tradition is often far stronger than anything tangible.

Very true, yet when you have something tangible where you can see the horror first hand, it is much more tangible. I am sure visiting Auschwitz leaves a much bigger impression than simply hearing about it. Similarly, when you hear about things such as Khiyam, it is very different to actually being given a tour of the place.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Quoting QR332 (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

I know a few Vietnam vets who would tell you that this is nothing compared to what they went through.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):
Anyway, I don't see much point to this thread. I think every one on this planet has already choses sides.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Now, can we please stick to the subject?

Funny.....you're the only one going off on these rants about how everyone needs to stick to the subject.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

Let me start over. I'll start by assuming that it was all as one-sided bad as you claim.

Okay, for the sake of argument, Israel did some bad things.

okay?

Why bring it up now?
What is your purpose? Your intent?

I believe that you are just trying to stir hatred against Israel. I believe that you want a new generation of children to grow up hating Israel even if they have no experience with, or true knowledge of Israel and the Israelis.

It isn't about 'wanting us to know the truth' or any other such noble-sounding abstraction as that. You just want us to hate Israel.

I don't love Israel by any means. I don't believe for a moment that Israel is squeaky-clean in this mess. But here is the most important thing of all:

The past is over.


Got that?

Nothing good can come of constant re-hashing of past offenses. They can only serve one possible purpose - to fan the fires of hatred.

People who DON'T WANT to fix the problem will ALWAYS bring up every last insult back two thousand years as evidence of how right their side is. We cannot fix the past. We can only start right now to fix the future. Do you want your children to strap on explosive vests? If not, stop fanning the fires like this. Ask the administrator to remove this thread.

It is hatemongering.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Lebanon has freedom of speech, believe it or not

 laughing   laughing   laughing 

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Would I not get an ass kicking if I went to rural Texas and started screaming out that Republicans suck?

No. You would not.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Also, considering your own country, the shining beacon of freedom, has committed acts of political oppression and many political actions that have changed the course of many countries, I wouldn't be pointing fingers if I were you.

Well, apart from the fact that I'm from a colony, I do have US citizenship. And thus I can state that those countries...probably had it comming.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
the Phalange militia during the Sabra and Shatila massacres in 1982 (where 2,000 Palestinian refugees were murdered), and all of it was committed under the watch of Israeli troops.

Did the IDF troops have a duty to stop it? I don't think so! If I had been commanding an IDF unit, it would've been a cold day in the desert before I sent my men to stop what was going on in the palestinian hood. No siree! Not getting involved in a tribal fight over nothing that's my business.

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 10):
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):
Anyway, I don't see much point to this thread. I think every one on this planet has already choses sides.

Not me. Both have valid points, and both have faults. Neither of them is in the right beyond 50%.



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1552 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
Not me. Both have valid points, and both have faults. Neither of them is in the right beyond 50%.

You quoted the wrong person.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17778 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Would I not get an ass kicking if I went to rural Texas and started screaming out that Republicans suck?

Have you even been to Texas? I don't know where you get that idea but that is not how things work here. Does "Cindy Sheehan" or "Crawford, Texas" ring any bells?

[Edited 2006-08-17 17:20:51]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 10):
I know a few Vietnam vets who would tell you that this is nothing compared to what they went through.

How is that relevant to this thread?

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 10):
Funny.....you're the only one going off on these rants about how everyone needs to stick to the subject.

So instead of making smartass comments, why don't you actually post something to do with the subject at hand?

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
Why bring it up now?
What is your purpose? Your intent?

I brought it up now because Israel bombed the prison today, and my intent is to show that Israel did so for a reason - I am free to post threads on this forum as long as they are within the rules on any subject i'd like.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
I believe that you are just trying to stir hatred against Israel. I believe that you want a new generation of children to grow up hating Israel even if they have no experience with, or true knowledge of Israel and the Israelis

Really? What children would those be, SlamClick? Didn't a new generation just experience Israeli aggression first hand in Lebanon? What I want is to raise awareness among Americans so they don't keep up their blind support for the country.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
It isn't about 'wanting us to know the truth' or any other such noble-sounding abstraction as that. You just want us to hate Israel.

Not really, it is just that - wanting people to see the truth. It is not to increase hatred, it is to show that Israel has a very dark passed and that it continues do do many terrible things. Considering this went on until 2000, this is very relevant to Israel's recent history.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
I don't love Israel by any means. I don't believe for a moment that Israel is squeaky-clean in this mess. But here is the most important thing of all:

The past is over.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Also, if the past is over, SlamClick, do me a favour and do the following then:
-Forget 9/11 and the victims - the past is over, right?
-Stop holding the Marines bombing against Hezbollah.
-Stop holding the embassy kidnapping against Iran.

etc, etc.

The past might be over but that does not mean it isn't relevant and that we shouldn't educate ourselves based on the past. Only narrowminded people see the past as unimportant.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
Nothing good can come of constant re-hashing of past offenses. They can only serve one possible purpose - to fan the fires of hatred.

No, they can educate people and they are very relevant to everything that goes on today - past events can be used to explain many things that are happening today. How can you explain why there are Palestinian refugees if you don't look into how they came to be this way? It is impossible to look at things without putting them in context, and the past is very, very important in order to do so.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
People who DON'T WANT to fix the problem will ALWAYS bring up every last insult back two thousand years as evidence of how right their side is. We cannot fix the past. We can only start right now to fix the future. Do you want your children to strap on explosive vests? If not, stop fanning the fires like this. Ask the administrator to remove this thread.

This is 6 years ago, not 2000. People can't fix the problem if they don't know about it, SlamClick, and this might give people an idea about why there is so much opposition to Israel in Lebanon.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
No. You would not.

My ass I wouldn't.

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
Well, apart from the fact that I'm from a colony, I do have US citizenship. And thus I can state that those countries...probably had it comming

So Iran in 1952 had it coming because it chose to end the British monopoly on its own resources, for example?

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
Did the IDF troops have a duty to stop it? I don't think so! If I had been commanding an IDF unit, it would've been a cold day in the desert before I sent my men to stop what was going on in the palestinian hood. No siree! Not getting involved in a tribal fight over nothing that's my business.

If they weren't involved at all, fair enough. But considering the IDF sent the militia in there to hunt down the "hundreds of PLO fighters" (but they only sent in 150 troops), surrounded the complex, and watched exactly what is going on, i'd say their pretty damn guilty.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Have you even been to Texas? I don't know where you get that idea but that is not how things work here.

Yeah, we'd pretty much tell him to shut up since he's scaring the deer/cattle/goats/chickens/various other livestock.

The old blue haired baptist ladies would probably say "bless his heart" a dozen or so times, and the rest of the old folks would probably ponder if he had just got too much sun and offer him a pitcher of ice tea.

After all, we have tolerated Cindy Sheehan..

That is of course rural Texas. If someone started shouting "Republicans Suck!" in urban Texas, they might just draw a crowd... all chanting the same thing.


User currently offlineSantosdumont From Brazil, joined Dec 2003, 1201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 12):
Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Also, considering your own country, the shining beacon of freedom, has committed acts of political oppression and many political actions that have changed the course of many countries, I wouldn't be pointing fingers if I were you.

Well, apart from the fact that I'm from a colony, I do have US citizenship. And thus I can state that those countries...probably had it comming.

Your master has taught you well, Boricua.



"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17778 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
What I want is to raise awareness among Americans so they don't keep up their blind support for the country.

If this came from a source other than someone that supports any of Israel's atrocious neighbors from Morrocco to Pakistan, I think it'd fall on more sympathetic ears.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
Really? What children would those be, SlamClick? Didn't a new generation just experience Israeli aggression first hand in Lebanon?

No they didn't. They experienced bombing. They haven't a clue in hell what it was about unless you, or somebody like you tells them. Clearly you have chosen to tell them it was "Israeli agression" rather than "Israel taking defensive action to ROCKETS being fired on them from LEBANON" as most of the western world understands it.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
What I want is to raise awareness among Americans so they don't keep up their blind support for the country.

In other words to fan hatred for Israel. In still other words, to undermine the ceasefire.

Moderators, now that the purpose of this thread has been made so perfectly clear, isn't it time to lock it?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Have you even been to Texas? I don't know where you get that idea but that is not how things work here. Does "Cindy Sheehan" or "Crawford, Texas" ring any bells?

Fine, the US is the world's finest example of tolerance. Tell me, where did the term raghead originate?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Yeah, we'd pretty much tell him to shut up since he's scaring the deer/cattle/goats/chickens/various other livestock.

Would love to see the reaction to your opinions here in the Arab world.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
The old blue haired baptist ladies would probably say "bless his heart" a dozen or so times, and the rest of the old folks would probably ponder if he had just got too much sun and offer him a pitcher of ice tea.

After all, we have tolerated Cindy Sheehan..

]That is of course rural Texas. If someone started shouting "Republicans Suck!" in urban Texas, they might just draw a crowd... all chanting the same thing.

 rotfl  rotfl 


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
How is that relevant to this thread?

Because you went off in the first post about how this prison is so horribly shocking, yet I reminded you that far worse events have transpired in the history of mankind.

Also, as already mentioned, the photographs shown don't prove anything. You act as though this prison is some sort of madhouse where people were brutally beaten and tortured. It may have been just that, but the articles you gave don't show much at all.

Lastly, and people like you need to take this to heart....when you get excited and post a thread like this, then put at the very end of it...

Quoting QR332 (Thread starter):
Thoughts?

...you better be ready for people to present you their thoughts. If you can't handle it and end up getting your panties in a wad everytime someone disagrees with you, then I urge you to seek entertainment elsewhere.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
So instead of making smartass comments, why don't you actually post something to do with the subject at hand?

I did....with my very first comment.

Read your history.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
If this came from a source other than someone that supports any of Israel's atrocious neighbors from Morrocco to Pakistan, I think it'd fall on more sympathetic ears

4 sources up there buddy, up to you to believe it or not.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 19):
No they didn't. They experienced bombing. They haven't a clue in hell what it was about unless you, or somebody like you tells them. Clearly you have chosen to tell them it was "Israeli agression" rather than "Israel taking defensive action to ROCKETS being fired on them from LEBANON" as most of the western world understands it.

OK, we'll tell them those things that just blew their house up were misguided fireworks, and that 1,000 people simply dissapeared, and that they had to leave their towns behind because the boogeyman is out in the streets.

Tell me, after 9/11, did you guys tell your children "we oppressed them so bad that they exploded in our face"? Then don't expect the Lebanese to make statements that are just as idiotic.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 19):
In other words to fan hatred for Israel. In still other words, to undermine the ceasefire.

Moderators, now that the purpose of this thread has been made so perfectly clear, isn't it time to lock it?

Freedom of speech, if he doesn't agree with me, lock his thread! Real nice, SlamClick! Just because you interpret things in whatever way you want doesn't mean thats what it really is. You seem to think we're all just dying to be in your shoes, as you made clear in another thread - doesn't make it true.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 20):
Fine, the US is the world's finest example of tolerance. Tell me, where did the term raghead originate?

I see, now we've degraded from the evils of Isreal to the evils of the US.. Pretty much par for the course.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 20):
Would love to see the reaction to your opinions here in the Arab world.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are getting at here. Could you please rephrase for me?


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17778 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 22):
4 sources up there buddy, up to you to believe it or not.

Yep, and HRW and the BBC have a lot to say about a lot of prisons; why focus on this one?



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Post contains links Dtwclipper : http://www.inminds.co.uk/ This one is not the best...it is a very poor choice for a source. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/766746.stm "
26 Post contains links and images QR332 : Fair enough. How do they not show much at all? You have examples of the forms of torture used, eyewitness accounts, reports from Human Rights Watch,
27 SlamClick : Please, have a little regard for truth, for reality. I already gave you an alternative explanation. ...which you chose to ignore. Was it perhaps inco
28 Dtwclipper : Didn't say that, just pointing out that it may not be most reliable source. I looked through the site, and read some articles on it, and it just didn
29 QR332 : An explenation tailored to your needs - why don't you try to accept there are views other than your own? Nope, just completley untruthful. If it was
30 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Because they showed a little box with a painting on it. I've endured far worse than what these articles state, and that was sanctioned training. I'm
31 QR332 : Fine, these are perfectly humane things then (from the BBC article in reply #26): Ali Kashmar was 14 when arrested and detained in 1988. Although he
32 RJpieces : Oh stop the Fox News crap. Every Middle East analyst--people with PhDs from Princeton and Yale--agree that Hezbollah is an arm of Iran. These people
33 SlamClick : Once again with emphasis added: Let's try it again with more emphasis: Get it now? TWO possible explanation. I posted both. YOU ignored one of them.
34 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Not once....NOT ONCE did I justify anything as being humane. All I said was that your statement of... ...is slightly skewed since far worse practices
35 Post contains images QR332 : Wow... i'm going to take their words as holy now that people with PhDs - PHDS!!! - have said it. I saw just how unbiased US media is during my visit
36 Santosdumont : Sanctioned training which you presumably consented to, right USN?
37 MDorBust : Seriously, QR332, people like you are why Americans support Israel in this conflict. You can't be truthful in your hatred. Israel attacked civilian ar
38 YOWza : This blanket statement shows your lack of knowledge of the Arab and Muslim worlds... and no watching Syriana (I'm guessing that's where you borrowed
39 SlamClick : So is a Well now we know who YOU are. I was being kind to you. I knew about the two kidnapped soldiers. What YOU left out is that it was two Israeli s
40 MaverickM11 : If you are a woman, or a journalist, or gay, or a non Muslim, or a voter, or a minority, or 'not the minority in power', where do you think you'd be
41 SlamClick : What your post does not acknowledge is this: If they would refrain from attacking Israel and if they would cease exporting murder to other parts of t
42 Post contains links CXA330300 : While Israel has committed many atrocities, I urge you to read this: http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/irn-summary-eng
43 Post contains links CXA330300 : While Israel has committed many atrocities, I urge you to read this: http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/irn-summary-eng Hezbollah's backers for you.
44 TheSorcerer : IIRC this is the kinda thing that happened to the captured members of Bravo Two Zero in 1991 at the hands of Saddam's regime. This sort of thing isn't
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