Cptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2555 posts, RR: 14 Posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1568 times:
I've heard some rumblings from buddies up in MoTown for a while and more recently from the same source that alerted me to the pending FoMoCo purchase of Jaguar well in advance of that transaction that Jaguar is again in (perhaps REAL) jeopardy. That Ford has done less than a stellar job with the Jaguar brand may be overshadowed by the possible future.
Now another back-up rumor from an internationally respected source, Autoextremist, is that Ford may well be negotiating the sale of Jaguar and Land Rover to (horrors) the Hyundai conglomerate and (horrors again) Kia will be the new homeplace of the Jaguar car line. As the article said, sounds like "a big bowl of not good...".
If such does come to fruition, I guess we can all hope for a better job (than Ford's efforts) to be done by Hyundai, but one could somehow stretch the plausibility of the Ford/Jaguar deal whereas mentally I cannot fathom a personal comfort zone with a Hyundai/Jaguar (or Kia/Jaguar). Maybe it's just the old codger in me...but what do you all think? Regards...jack
CaptainGomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1544 times:
Oh dear, that's sad if true. From the outside, it seemed as though Ford is doing a much better job managing its upscale brands, when compared to GM's efforts. However, what's really sad is that these companies are unable to stand alone on their own two feet, without requiring the financial and resource help from larger companies. I think Porsche is unique in the industry in that it is a small, specialized car manufacturer, which is also able to engineer and produce its cars on its own without outside help. A big part of this capability is that Porsche does a huge amount of consulting and engineering work to other firms. If only Jaguar, and others could follow the same path?
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
JetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2964 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1535 times:
Although it is true that Jaguar is currently a lost cause that Ford keeps throwing money into, I dont think Ford is ready to sell it off just yet. Everything I have read regarding Jaguar/Ford seems to hint that Ford will give it one last shot. There are plans for a newer X-Type and S-Type. The very future of Jaguar lies in the hands in the designers of these two new models.
If these new models do not succeed, then Jaguar will be axed from the Ford line. I really hope that somebody other than Hyundai and Kia pick it up though. I just cant imagine them turning it into anything better than what Ford has it at. I would like to be proved wrong though, seeing as how Hyundai really stepped up their game lately.
One reason I believe Ford cannot get Jaguar to sell is because of the dirt quality in which they are built. I work at Carmax and have all the opportunity in the world to sit in and drive various Jaguar's. The truth is, they are so poorly built that they are immediately set too far behind the competition to really compete. I remember one Jaguar in particular that was an 06 with only about 6,000 miles on it. The door panels squeaked, the drivers seat was loose, and the center console looked as if it were designed to break easily. It was truly a sad site for such an "upscale" car.
As for Land Rover, be gone with it already. The name used to have such prestige beihind it. However, once Ford started supercharging the engines, putting 20's on it, and making a sport model, it lost all the glory it once stood for. Also, their quality reeks too in comparison to the Toyota Land Cruiser.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12335 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1517 times:
Jaguar has been a basket case since the 1960's. Too small, with too many legacy costs and expanded competion since the 1970's from BMW, Audi, Lexis, Acura/Honda, they have been on a slow slide for many years. Yet, it has perserved and attracted other owners like Ford despite it workmanship because they always have a sexy style with a soul, unlike the Japanese-German competition. When Ford bought Jaguar, they made considerable improvements in many components. Yes, today some Jaguar models are Ford based, but still they have something distinctive.
Ford selling off Jag and Land Rover may be the only thing they can do. They, like GM and Chrysler in the USA are in deep financial trouble. Their USA sales are tanking, with major losses, have in the USA many billions in underfunded legacy/retirement costs, facing (as is the UK/EC) much better designed and financially stronger Toyota, Honda, Nissan/Renault and cheap cars made in Eastern Europe, S. Korea and in a few years - China.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38502 posts, RR: 80 Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1509 times:
Quoting CaptainGomes (Reply 2): Ford is doing a much better job managing its upscale brands, when compared to GM's efforts
Very true.
I just wish Ford would do more for the Lincoln brand instead of these new unibody alphabet soup models that just came out. I still think it was a terrible idea to dump the 2004 Continental concept sedan. That would have put Lincoln back in the league of superluxury where it once dominated.
QANTAS077 From China, joined Jan 2004, 5745 posts, RR: 49 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1509 times:
bloody hope not because parts for the Jaguar are expensive enough as it is, being a jaguar driver i'd hate to see them gone, they are, the most unique and beautiful cars on the road.
a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
Aseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2042 posts, RR: 11 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1495 times:
Quoting CaptainGomes (Reply 2): I think Porsche is unique in the industry in that it is a small, specialized car manufacturer, which is also able to engineer and produce its cars on its own without outside help.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they a part of VW stable?
rgds
VT-ASJ
Klaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 20853 posts, RR: 55 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1483 times:
Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 6): bloody hope not because parts for the Jaguar are expensive enough as it is, being a jaguar driver i'd hate to see them gone, they are, the most unique and beautiful cars on the road.
Indeed - and I've always been thankful to those who take it upon themselves to parade those beauties around...!
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1465 times:
Quoting Aseem (Reply 7): Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they a part of VW stable?
Well, they are closely tied with VW, but it's quite the other way around. Porsche actually own something like 20% of VW! They also cooperate a lot from an engineering standpoint, the best example today being the Touareg/Cayenne SUV's. But no, VW does not own Porsche as many believe.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
FlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6297 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1458 times:
Porsche and VW have had a good relationship since both companies began and now Porsche increased their owns 25% of VW
While VW Group owns
Audi, Lamborghini, SEAT,Volkswagen,Bentley,Škoda,Bugatti,Volkswagen Commercial.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Cornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 56 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1391 times:
This same story has been circulating in the weekly UK magazine Autocar too.
As for VW and Porsche, remember Porsche is still family owned. As an aside,Ferdinand Piech - until recently VW CEO is a member of the Porsche family - either directly or through marriage (not sure which).
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13874 posts, RR: 28 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1337 times:
Quoting Cptkrell (Thread starter): somehow stretch the plausibility of the Ford/Jaguar deal whereas mentally I cannot fathom a personal comfort zone with a Hyundai/Jaguar (or Kia/Jaguar).
well, can it be worse ? and I can well imagine people at Hyundai and Kia to understand the combination of tradition and high speed and high performance of Jaguar, while I find it difficult to see Ford to understand what Jaguar is all about. Looks like being a new chance for the famous car-make.
Fbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3687 posts, RR: 31 Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1257 times:
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14): well, can it be worse ? and I can well imagine people at Hyundai and Kia to understand the combination of tradition and high speed and high performance of Jaguar, while I find it difficult to see Ford to understand what Jaguar is all about. Looks like being a new chance for the famous car-make.
The one thing that gets me about Hyundai/Kia etc are the fact they are utterly soul-less creations. Bland beyond believe and just built without any passion, I think it was Clarkson who put it best by saying they are the white goods of the automotive industry.
Jaguar on the other hand has as rich a heritage as they come, ok so some of the more recent models (X-Type anyone?) are pretty much Fords with a metal cat on the front but still they are worlds apart from Kia/Hyundai...
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/ THIS WEBsite shows impressing facts. For instance that the company was only founded in 1967, and within 40 years brought it up to what they are today. With car-types like Elantra, Grandeur and Centennial. I had a Hyundai at some time in the 90ies under rental for a week, and found it to be a good thing. I hope that they ARE able to proceed with Jaguar in an appropriate way. Having been part of Ford did NOT really help the image of the Jaguar-make, so that this aspect can hardly become worse. I would suggest to take the matter positively and to see the development as a chance for Jaguar-cars.
Copaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1127 times:
Jags haven't been the same since the 1960's, when they were hand-built around a wooden frame. Honestly, newer Jags just don't stand out like they used to. That said, switching the line to Kia would just diminish the Jags legacy.
On the face of it, it seems an odd pairing but it might be better if they end up with someone who doesn't have any cars of their own to confuse with the Jaguar range.
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