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The Death Of Jaguar?  
User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 2080 times:

I've heard some rumblings from buddies up in MoTown for a while and more recently from the same source that alerted me to the pending FoMoCo purchase of Jaguar well in advance of that transaction that Jaguar is again in (perhaps REAL) jeopardy. That Ford has done less than a stellar job with the Jaguar brand may be overshadowed by the possible future.

Now another back-up rumor from an internationally respected source, Autoextremist, is that Ford may well be negotiating the sale of Jaguar and Land Rover to (horrors) the Hyundai conglomerate and (horrors again) Kia will be the new homeplace of the Jaguar car line. As the article said, sounds like "a big bowl of not good...".

If such does come to fruition, I guess we can all hope for a better job (than Ford's efforts) to be done by Hyundai, but one could somehow stretch the plausibility of the Ford/Jaguar deal whereas mentally I cannot fathom a personal comfort zone with a Hyundai/Jaguar (or Kia/Jaguar). Maybe it's just the old codger in me...but what do you all think? Regards...jack


all best; jack
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39886 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 2069 times:

NO!
Let's hope this does NOT happen!  no 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCaptainGomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 2056 times:

Oh dear, that's sad if true. From the outside, it seemed as though Ford is doing a much better job managing its upscale brands, when compared to GM's efforts. However, what's really sad is that these companies are unable to stand alone on their own two feet, without requiring the financial and resource help from larger companies. I think Porsche is unique in the industry in that it is a small, specialized car manufacturer, which is also able to engineer and produce its cars on its own without outside help. A big part of this capability is that Porsche does a huge amount of consulting and engineering work to other firms. If only Jaguar, and others could follow the same path?


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineJetsGo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3083 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 hour ago) and read 2047 times:

Although it is true that Jaguar is currently a lost cause that Ford keeps throwing money into, I dont think Ford is ready to sell it off just yet. Everything I have read regarding Jaguar/Ford seems to hint that Ford will give it one last shot. There are plans for a newer X-Type and S-Type. The very future of Jaguar lies in the hands in the designers of these two new models.

If these new models do not succeed, then Jaguar will be axed from the Ford line. I really hope that somebody other than Hyundai and Kia pick it up though. I just cant imagine them turning it into anything better than what Ford has it at. I would like to be proved wrong though, seeing as how Hyundai really stepped up their game lately.

One reason I believe Ford cannot get Jaguar to sell is because of the dirt quality in which they are built. I work at Carmax and have all the opportunity in the world to sit in and drive various Jaguar's. The truth is, they are so poorly built that they are immediately set too far behind the competition to really compete. I remember one Jaguar in particular that was an 06 with only about 6,000 miles on it. The door panels squeaked, the drivers seat was loose, and the center console looked as if it were designed to break easily. It was truly a sad site for such an "upscale" car.

As for Land Rover, be gone with it already. The name used to have such prestige beihind it. However, once Ford started supercharging the engines, putting 20's on it, and making a sport model, it lost all the glory it once stood for. Also, their quality reeks too in comparison to the Toyota Land Cruiser.


Chris



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13114 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month ago) and read 2029 times:

Jaguar has been a basket case since the 1960's. Too small, with too many legacy costs and expanded competion since the 1970's from BMW, Audi, Lexis, Acura/Honda, they have been on a slow slide for many years. Yet, it has perserved and attracted other owners like Ford despite it workmanship because they always have a sexy style with a soul, unlike the Japanese-German competition. When Ford bought Jaguar, they made considerable improvements in many components. Yes, today some Jaguar models are Ford based, but still they have something distinctive.
Ford selling off Jag and Land Rover may be the only thing they can do. They, like GM and Chrysler in the USA are in deep financial trouble. Their USA sales are tanking, with major losses, have in the USA many billions in underfunded legacy/retirement costs, facing (as is the UK/EC) much better designed and financially stronger Toyota, Honda, Nissan/Renault and cheap cars made in Eastern Europe, S. Korea and in a few years - China.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39886 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month ago) and read 2021 times:

Quoting CaptainGomes (Reply 2):
Ford is doing a much better job managing its upscale brands, when compared to GM's efforts

Very true.
I just wish Ford would do more for the Lincoln brand instead of these new unibody alphabet soup models that just came out. I still think it was a terrible idea to dump the 2004 Continental concept sedan. That would have put Lincoln back in the league of superluxury where it once dominated.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineQANTAS077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month ago) and read 2021 times:

bloody hope not because parts for the Jaguar are expensive enough as it is, being a jaguar driver i'd hate to see them gone, they are, the most unique and beautiful cars on the road.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month ago) and read 2007 times:

Quoting CaptainGomes (Reply 2):
I think Porsche is unique in the industry in that it is a small, specialized car manufacturer, which is also able to engineer and produce its cars on its own without outside help.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they a part of VW stable?
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21462 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month ago) and read 1995 times:

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 6):
bloody hope not because parts for the Jaguar are expensive enough as it is, being a jaguar driver i'd hate to see them gone, they are, the most unique and beautiful cars on the road.

Indeed - and I've always been thankful to those who take it upon themselves to parade those beauties around...!


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Quoting Aseem (Reply 7):
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they a part of VW stable?

Well, they are closely tied with VW, but it's quite the other way around. Porsche actually own something like 20% of VW! They also cooperate a lot from an engineering standpoint, the best example today being the Touareg/Cayenne SUV's. But no, VW does not own Porsche as many believe.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineFlyMIA From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7175 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

Porsche and VW have had a good relationship since both companies began and now Porsche increased their owns 25% of VW
While VW Group owns
Audi, Lamborghini, SEAT,Volkswagen,Bentley,Škoda,Bugatti,Volkswagen Commercial.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

This same story has been circulating in the weekly UK magazine Autocar too.

As for VW and Porsche, remember Porsche is still family owned. As an aside,Ferdinand Piech - until recently VW CEO is a member of the Porsche family - either directly or through marriage (not sure which).



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Heard Russians where interested in Jag and LR, LR already got an assembly plant in Russia so why not?

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

My dad just bought an X-type to replace his old Saab. He should have sticked with the Saab the X-type is really a poorly build car.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1849 times:

Quoting Cptkrell (Thread starter):
somehow stretch the plausibility of the Ford/Jaguar deal whereas mentally I cannot fathom a personal comfort zone with a Hyundai/Jaguar (or Kia/Jaguar).

well, can it be worse ? and I can well imagine people at Hyundai and Kia to understand the combination of tradition and high speed and high performance of Jaguar, while I find it difficult to see Ford to understand what Jaguar is all about. Looks like being a new chance for the famous car-make.


User currently offlineDvk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1831 times:

What? You mean there are people who don't love the x-type Jaguarus? Just because it looks like a Taurus? I'm shocked!  Wink


I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Quoting Dvk (Reply 15):
looks like a Taurus

a Jaguar should NOT look as common like a common Ford ! It should look ways above these fields !  wink   yes 


User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 14):
well, can it be worse ? and I can well imagine people at Hyundai and Kia to understand the combination of tradition and high speed and high performance of Jaguar, while I find it difficult to see Ford to understand what Jaguar is all about. Looks like being a new chance for the famous car-make.

The one thing that gets me about Hyundai/Kia etc are the fact they are utterly soul-less creations. Bland beyond believe and just built without any passion, I think it was Clarkson who put it best by saying they are the white goods of the automotive industry.

Jaguar on the other hand has as rich a heritage as they come, ok so some of the more recent models (X-Type anyone?) are pretty much Fords with a metal cat on the front but still they are worlds apart from Kia/Hyundai...



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 17):
about Hyundai

http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/ THIS WEBsite shows impressing facts. For instance that the company was only founded in 1967, and within 40 years brought it up to what they are today. With car-types like Elantra, Grandeur and Centennial. I had a Hyundai at some time in the 90ies under rental for a week, and found it to be a good thing. I hope that they ARE able to proceed with Jaguar in an appropriate way. Having been part of Ford did NOT really help the image of the Jaguar-make, so that this aspect can hardly become worse. I would suggest to take the matter positively and to see the development as a chance for Jaguar-cars.


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

Jags haven't been the same since the 1960's, when they were hand-built around a wooden frame. Honestly, newer Jags just don't stand out like they used to. That said, switching the line to Kia would just diminish the Jags legacy.

-Copa


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 19):
switching the line to Kia would just diminish the Jags legacy.

the danger of course is obvious, but we should give Kia a chance, before "condemning" them


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1562 times:

Rumours that JCB might be interested:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm

On the face of it, it seems an odd pairing but it might be better if they end up with someone who doesn't have any cars of their own to confuse with the Jaguar range.  Smile


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1525 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 21):
JCB might be interested:

When reading about JCB it looks like an ideal solution.


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