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Every Airport Flier To Be Fingerprinted In Europe  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3105 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6309 times:

Courtesy: The Scotsman

Every Airport Traveller To Be Fingerprinted In Europe

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=5&id=7689

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

Its already done on entry into the USA...


Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently onlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3571 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

Great... What's next? A chip in each car so that the government can see where you drive at which time? I think something similiar was already thought about in the UK anyway.

Big Brother is watching you. A nightmare for everybody who loves freedom.


User currently offlineB747FAN From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Europe is far more racially divided and less socially integrated compared to other cosmopolitan countries such as USA, Canada, or even India for that matter. Therefore I do believe European Muslims will be looked upon with a keen and discerning eye in general. But, in these times it is necessary and I hope Muslims everywhere will be understanding of why it is happening


) He turns not back who is bound to a star. - Leonardo Da Vinci.
User currently offlineSK736 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6158 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I recently voluntarily registered for the UK's iris recognition programme - makes entry into certain UK airports quick and effortless. I recommend it to anyone who wants to skip the immigration queues and get on their way with the minimum of fuss.

Quoting B747FAN (Reply 3):
Europe is far more racially divided and less socially integrated compared to other cosmopolitan countries such as USA

Is this an attempt at irony?


User currently offlineGSM763 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6091 times:

Quoting B747FAN (Reply 3):
Europe is far more racially divided and less socially integrated compared to other cosmopolitan countries such as USA, Canada, or even India for that matter. Therefore I do believe European Muslims will be looked upon with a keen and discerning eye in general. But, in these times it is necessary and I hope Muslims everywhere will be understanding of why it is happening

Firstly yes I do believe that Muslims will be looked on more harshly and normally I would be against these things but profiling does go on to an extent anyway so why go on about it. 2nd please get it into your head that Europe is not a country it is a continent and therefore will be more divided than the US for that reason.


User currently offlineRobbie86 From Sweden, joined May 2006, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6049 times:

I can't see how the security can be so maximised on airplanes while trains and ships has none? Like trains and ships can't be blown apart.


Next flights: ARN-LHR-IAD on BA 319/VS343 EWR-LHR-ARN on VS346/BA319
User currently offlineLonghaulheavy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 402 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5990 times:

Quoting SK736 (Reply 4):
Quoting B747FAN (Reply 3):
Europe is far more racially divided and less socially integrated compared to other cosmopolitan countries such as USA

Is this an attempt at irony?

Well, he's right in a sense. The US has 300 million people who speak the same language (mostly) and share a national culture, as opposed to Europe's spaghetti plate of national borders and language borders. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a fact.


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2178 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

Well, as everything concerning Europe that comes from the UK, this is not done yet! UK's real integration into the EU is yet to be done (€ + Schengen -and I would not be surprised if they actually leave the EU someday!-), so no need to say this will be a matter of hot debate in Brussels!
A recent illustration of the "integration" of the UK in the EU : NOT A SINGLE EU country followed the new security rules implemented by the UK, even the Rep. of Ireland with who they share a land border... whereas Canada (not more involved in the attacks than the rest of the EU was) did... We are talking of not less than 24 countries here...

Protection of privacy, even for security reasons, is still a very important issue in most European countries who would sure be somewhat reluctant. That might even be anti-constitutional in some countries, let alone the citizens protests.
- I actually know many Europeans who are extremely unhappy and uncomfortable about being fingerprinted in the US and who make a big deal of it (well, they obviously have no choice but they still make a big deal of it), so no need to say they would feel worse about that being done at home...



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Oh sh#t!!! How many pilots will AA have to bail out now? Big grin


"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineMRURUN From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5836 times:

Quoting Longhaulheavy (Reply 7):

I think you need to see above, where the poster stated that the EU is not a country, even a remotely federalist country. We are ALL very happy to be different to our friends and neighbours on this continent.


User currently offlineDavidT From Switzerland, joined Oct 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5805 times:

Quoting B747FAN (Reply 3):
Europe is far more racially divided and less socially integrated compared to other cosmopolitan countries such as USA, Canada, or even India for that matter

You have just compared a country to a continent. Of course Europe is more diverse. It is a collection of 25 countries, not 1 single country!


Personally I am all for increased security. People complain about 'big brother' etc - there's no real threat posed to an individual really. imo if you have nothing to hide, you should not be worried.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5225 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5710 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
Great... What's next? A chip in each car so that the government can see where you drive at which time? I think something similiar was already thought about in the UK anyway.

Big Brother is watching you. A nightmare for everybody who loves freedom.

Back in 1983, I had to give a thumbprint before taking my LSAT (U.S. entrance exam for law school).

I don't have a problem with the EU or TSA having my iris scan or fingerprints, if it will improve security, reduce the time needed to clear security, and allow some sanity for air travel, including letting my wife bring her bottled water, hand cream, moist towelettes, lip gloss, etc. and not requiring me to remove my overcoat, suit coat, and shoes to go through the metal detector.


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4763 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5687 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DavidT (Reply 11):
imo if you have nothing to hide, you should not be worried.

tell that to a bunch of people who enjoyed a very long vacation in Cuba courtesy of the US government for no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time!


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8322 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5672 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
Great... What's next? A chip in each car so that the government can see where you drive at which time?

If you've ever rented a car in Europe, it's already in use. Try to rent a car in Germany and drive it into Italy without authorization (and respective pay), from the rental company and the car's engine will promptly shut off as you approach the Italian border. This is done via GPS and it's already widely used. It's current intent is to prevent theft but that's now. Granted it's not the government, it a private company doing it but rest assured soon enough such "feature" will be available in every car sold and it's data won't be to difficult to obtain either.


User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
Back in 1983, I had to give a thumbprint before taking my LSAT (U.S. entrance exam for law school).

That is still in use today, but the LSAT destroys the fingerprint record after the test has been completed (and is therefore very different in nature than the US-VISIT program, or what is argued here for Europe.)

Since it was done in '83, I suspect that they were doing that even before then, as a way of reducing testing fraud, in the days when many americans didn't have photo ID. It might be retained today more as an anachronism than something useful (which is not to argue that it is either useful today or was useful before.)

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12):
I don't have a problem with the EU or TSA having my iris scan or fingerprints, if it will improve security,

I can't think of a possible scenario in which any of that is useful. My experience with security is that a lot of ideas are sold heavily by the companies who make them to individuals with the power of the purse who don't know any better.


User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 2):
Big Brother is watching you. A nightmare for everybody who loves freedom.

Freiheit ist nicht frei, mein freund... Wink

Sadly, there are people willing to kill you because you are free and live the life that you and I do. Either we defeat these people, or they will defeat us once and for all. These people don't meet in Geneva over tea and cookies to negotiate a truce. Instead, they use little children to blow up busses preach to people to blow up airplanes and trains to promote their religion and "culture".

So if it means I have to be inconvenienced for a minute or two when I clear Italian customs this coming Sunday morning, then so be it. I won't complain. And I'd bet the vast majority of Europeans who come here don't complain about a fingerprint. Not after they buy their blue jeans and iPods, anyway...


User currently offlineFlyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 812 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5380 times:

Quoting DavidT (Reply 11):
You have just compared a country to a continent. Of course Europe is more diverse. It is a collection of 25 countries, not 1 single country!

hm, dont know what Europe you live in , but the one i live in has 43 countries and not 25.To me Europe is not only EU

Quoting N174UA (Reply 16):
Sadly, there are people willing to kill you because you are free and live the life that you and I do

i have to disagree with you.As much as i hate what the terrorists are doing, i still belive there is a thing that triggered it all. i dont think its a coincidence the terrorists attacked Us, England and Spain in recent attacks. Dont get me wrong , i hate terrorists but i am not buying that crap that they are attacking becuase they hate our freedom. If they hate freedom so much, how come they didnt attack Canada, or Sweden or Netherlands.

just my 2 cents



I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
User currently offlineDavidT From Switzerland, joined Oct 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 17):
hm, dont know what Europe you live in , but the one i live in has 43 countries and not 25.To me Europe is not only EU

The new legislation is an EU rule (hence the 25).  

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 13):
tell that to a bunch of people who enjoyed a very long vacation in Cuba courtesy of the US government for no reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time!

I highly doubt that having your fingerprint scanned when you check in for a flight will lead anyboddy to Guantanamo.

[Edited 2006-08-22 10:04:36]

[Edited 2006-08-22 10:05:47]

User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 17):
If they hate freedom so much, how come they didnt attack Canada, or Sweden or Netherlands.

They don't see these countries on their soil trying to improve the lives of people that used to live under the likes of Saddam and other despots, like the screwball running Iran, and Assad in Syria.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were Canadians, Swiss, Dutch and possibly even Swedish citizens who were killed on 9/11. So indirectly, those countries WERE attacked because of their standard of living and that they were not Islamic fascists. These animals see the two countries who are the most powerful, so they aim for them...UK and the US. If the US and UK don't step up to defeat these terrorists, then who does? China? India? I don't see them doing anything, yet they guzzle just as much (or more) Mideast oil than we do.


User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 8):
Protection of privacy, even for security reasons, is still a very important issue in most European countries who would sure be somewhat reluctant.

I for one visited the US last year and had my fingerprint taken, which miffed me greatly. Next they'll perhaps insist that everyone has their head shaved, to eliminate security threats stemming from people who dye their hair. I think the EU is wrong to adopt this practice. Passports already have facial photographs which are more secure for identification than fingerprints.

Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 15):
That is still in use today, but the LSAT destroys the fingerprint record after the test has been completed (and is therefore very different in nature than the US-VISIT program, or what is argued here for Europe.)

The "VISIT" program retains the photos and fingerprints for 100 years, which was only reluctantly revealed after touting hoe benevolent the program is since they only retain them temporarily.

It goes without saying, that you have no way to control that the data is even destroyed after the 100 years.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

This is just sick. Another anti-freedom measure by these Euro-fascists. If we go on like that, the terrorists win, because they'll have the freedom in Europe completely eradicated. Besides, what will this fingerprinting BS do to stop any terrorist????

User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

Quoting Longhaulheavy (Reply 7):

Quoting SK736 (Reply 4):
Quoting B747FAN (Reply 3):
Europe is far more racially divided and less socially integrated compared to other cosmopolitan countries such as USA

Is this an attempt at irony?

Well, he's right in a sense. The US has 300 million people who speak the same language (mostly) and share a national culture, as opposed to Europe's spaghetti plate of national borders and language borders. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a fact.

Well maybe because europe is not a country, that could be a factor!


User currently offlineFlyboy_se From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 812 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

Quoting N174UA (Reply 19):
They don't see these countries on their soil trying to improve the lives of people that used to live under the likes of Saddam and other despots, like the screwball running Iran, and Assad in Syria.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were Canadians, Swiss, Dutch and possibly even Swedish citizens who were killed on 9/11. So indirectly, those countries WERE attacked because of their standard of living and that they were not Islamic fascists. These animals see the two countries who are the most powerful, so they aim for them...UK and the US. If the US and UK don't step up to defeat these terrorists, then who does? China? India? I don't see them doing anything, yet they guzzle just as much (or more) Mideast oil than we do

Karma is a funny thing... think about it.



I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
User currently offlineQM001 From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

N174UA,

I am very sorry to burst your extremely arrogant bubble, but whilst the US population barely scrapes at 5% of the global population, you manage to consume more than 60% (Closer to 70%) of ALL global energy.

Can you imagine if suddenly every person was entitled to their own allotment, for example, as China is 20% of the worlds population, they would be entitled to 20% of the energy, what would happen then??? Do I hear the worlds most powerful nation crashing into chaos and anarchy???

Rethink your stance, you are not the world, and you are not the majority, its time both the UK and US learned to sit there and keep their opinions and political "good will" to themselves, and let the rest of us just get on with it.

Remember also, that most of the "fanatics" as you label them, were in fact (Al Qaeda included) created by your own political "good will" during the Cold War, and that the reason that they are so pissed at the US, is that you broke every promise you ever made.

Whilst I am so going to get flamed for these remarks, I am so sick of you (I apologise for the generalisation) always being victims, its time people started realising that they're picking on you for a reason.

Perhaps instead of just invading any country you feel like next time, you could at least bother to wait a few days until the rest of the world sanctions it, that way, we would have avoided an Iraqi invasion and another hot bed of anti Americanism, simply because Bush Jr. wanted to make daddy's dream come true. Strange how those WMD's were never found!

Before anyone has me bumped, please let me explain my reasoning...

I am a European citizen that has lived all over the world, and I have had much exposure to both western culture and beliefs as well as other cultures. the one common element in EVERY culture and belief is to hope for peace, harmony and stability. We all want to live, free, and without hindrance. If everyone had that, there would be no wars, and certainly no super powers. Instead of being angry at a group of people, most of whom have yet to understand why, try to understand why many of the terrorist actions that we have seen in the past 60 years have actually taken place. There is one common reason, and mostly two common enemies. Care to take a guess who? Now without any bias, or being spoonfed propaganda from your governments, try to think why? In almost every case, the reason is quite apparent, it is amounts to either greed, a potential increase in political influence, or power building.

Go back in History 200 years, or even a hundred, what these "animals", as you put them, did to you, was that any worse to what we did to the Native Americans, or African Americans. Come a little closer, to the Communist Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Somalians, the Afghans (twice!!!), the Nicaraguans, the Panamanians, the Haitians and almost the cubans. If I were you, I would feel very grateful that its not just those "animals" that are after you!

I apologise in advance to the forum, this is not meant to be mean, crass or derogatory, but just to get people to think before they make baseless statements that can hurt or offend others.

Regards, QM001 (167 Air Malawi)



I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
25 OptionsCLE : Well it is - Suggested deletion.
26 HBJZA : Congratulation, you used the perfect words and figured it all out. For my side I have no idea of what fingerprints can do to avoid terrorism ???
27 QM001 : OptionsCLE, I see that calling other people animals is ok, but getting them to think about things before they say them, is not ok... This is exactky t
28 OptionsCLE : Sorry to burst your bubble but the day HAS come on this forum. This is an AVIATION forum, not free webspace to post your political beliefs. People do
29 L410Turbolet : Third possibility is that we defeat ourselves by introducing Orwellian measures like this fingerprinting nonsense.
30 Post contains images Halls120 : Trains have been bombed. It's just that bombing a train doesn't seem to have the same emotional impact that blowing up a plane in midair has. Cruise
31 Qm001 : OptionsCLE, Now I am in agreement with you. This is an aviation forum, but I was simply responding to a previous response and trying to set the record
32 SAA346 : The EU and UK have an aggressive plan on biometrics for passports, visas and ID cards. It's coming, it's unavoidable, it's law. C'est la vie : Whether
33 Halls120 : If you want to conduct a political discussion, why not take it over to the non-av board?
34 Baexecutive : Could you please switch off 'high drama mode' this is an aviation not policital forum so if you have views they would be better expressed elsewhere!
35 Airbazar : Typical American BS political propaganda. Do you really think terrorists give a crap of what freedom you or anybody has or don't have? Freedom my fri
36 Columbia107 : Although I have suggested that the post be deleted as it is non aviation related, it is funny but today your "rest of the world" cannot even agree in
37 SAA346 : Interesting how there's some snarling going on here and I think this is one of the few topics that has a direct impact on Civ-Av but cannot be seperat
38 B747FAN : My mistake for not clarifying. I ment to say the EU countries trying to pass a joint constitution, trying to become a united force, with a universal
39 Post contains images Airbazar : Man, you just keep burrying yourself You're telling me that those Mexicans jumping over the fence are all rich, fluent in english, and are fully inte
40 MRURUN : Heellloooo. HE DIDNT HAVE ANY WMD....THAT WAS A LIE!!. OMG, i;ve heard of people still falling for this....stuff....but come on, READ THE INTERNET AN
41 QM001 : I am all for e-borders, but I believe firmly that it should not be enforced, but rather voluntary. I know that there are various political views aroun
42 DrExotica : Very odd. I personally could care less regarding finger printing. If someone wants to fingerprint me - fine. Why would it bother someone that is not
43 Atlantic : perfectly put!
44 Post contains images Gr8Circle : ...and a welcome move for everybody who loves to stay alive, perhaps... True, but a disturbingly large proportion of terrorists are Islamic and commi
45 Travelin man : Total red herring. When was the last time the "little old lady living next door" blew herself up in a crowded marketplace? Or was planning on bombing
46 LY744 : You start off well... ...and then you must inject that tired, moronic argument into it. Your reply's credibility comes crashing down. LY744.
47 Mdsh00 : Oh please stop pulling on words. What he meant to say (at least this is what I think) that societies in Europe tend to be more segregated than their
48 Aerobalance : Whatever.
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