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My Nephew Called Me A Murderer  
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

I'm staying a few weeks with my sister in Kentucky, while I am looking for a house of my own.

My 7-year old nephew, Dallas, found out that I was once in the Army. He looked shocked, and said, "So you are a murderer?!?"

Sure enough, his teachers have been drilling into his head that the military is evil, and that they only exist to kill people, and to die themselves (he was surprised that I survived the army). He doesn't know anything about Iraq and 9/11 (which is understandable), but his opinions about the military are already pretty strong, thanks to the indoctrination he has recieved.

I have to talk with my sister about this tonight. This is scandalous how leftist teachers are indoctrinating children about how the military and anyone who serves in it are evil murderers.

“It is the soldier, not the journalist, who guarantees freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the student protestor, who guarantees freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the politician, who guarantees the freedom to vote.”

197 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2410 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
I have to talk with my sister about this tonight.

Or maybe you should talk directly to his teachers about this?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20647 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Leftist teachers, in KENTUCKY? Are you sure about this?


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3916 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 1):
Or maybe you should talk directly to his teachers about this?

I'm just an uncle. They don't even know me.

But I know my sister will be upset at this. She's further to the right than I am  Smile.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2410 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 3):
But I know my sister will be upset at this. She's further to the right than I am

Okay I guess that helps then  Wink


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
and to die themselves (he was surprised that I survived the army).

I'll admit I used to think as a very young child that joining the Army was a one way ticket to the funeral home.

Never thought of soldiers as murderers though. Hmm, interesting thread.

QFF


User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

He's a child. Take thirty seconds to convince him otherwise.  Wink I do understand, though, that your argument is against his teachers and their indoctrination of their own beliefs in a child, rather than his opinion of the military.

BAB



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

Also, are you sure that was taught to him by his teachers? It is possible that he knows that people in the military kill, and he is overextending the definition of murderer to include all those who kill, regardless of circumstance.

BAB



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3863 times:

If that's truly what he's being taught, then not only the teachers but the administration have some serious 'splanin to do. But also keep in mind that 7 year olds can create an entire (incorrect) concept out of one misunderstood statement. Give the School District the opportunity to actually show whats being taught before jumping to conclusions.


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3842 times:

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 7):
Also, are you sure that was taught to him by his teachers? It is possible that he knows that people in the military kill, and he is overextending the definition of murderer to include all those who kill, regardless of circumstance.

No, he told me that his teacher told him all this stuff. She told the class that they should never join the military, because all you do is kill innocent people until one day when you get killed yourself.


User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 9):
She told the class that they should never join the military, because all you do is kill innocent people until one day when you get killed yourself.

Maybe a word with the head at the school is in order. It's crazy that these people try to indoctrinate young children with their mis-guided beliefs


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3817 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
I have to talk with my sister about this tonight. This is scandalous how leftist teachers are indoctrinating children about how the military and anyone who serves in it are evil murderers.

Agreed. In my opinion, as a society, we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
My 7-year old nephew, Dallas, found out that I was once in the Army. He looked shocked, and said, "So you are a murderer?!?"

Nice! His school hired Ward Churchill as a teacher!


User currently offlineCosec59 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children.

I don't think you can discriminate like that. But I certainly agree that their beliefs be left outside the school gates


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children

And who gets to define 'our values'? In this case, if the teacher made the statement attributed to her, its pretty clear cut that she crossed a line, but I know from your postings your values aren't necessarily mine, so which of us is right?

Charles, you're right -this has got to go to the mom. Either through misunderstanding or flat out inappropriate proselytizing, the kid is getting some bad information, and it needs to be corrected.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

John Travolta in Broken Arrow

"Sure I've dropped bombs on cities, but I've never actually killed a guy"


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Quoting Cosec59 (Reply 13):
I don't think you can discriminate like that. But I certainly agree that their beliefs be left outside the school gates

Here in America, I think you can. School boards have a lot of power to hire and fire, and if you're, say, an America-hater, they probably do have the right to say, "Thanks, but we don't need your services just now."

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 14):
And who gets to define 'our values'? In this case, if the teacher made the statement attributed to her, its pretty clear cut that she crossed a line, but I know from your postings your values aren't necessarily mine, so which of us is right?

Someone, though, has to make that decision. We cannot always say, "No one can judge" when it comes to teaching. After all, teachers must pass certain tests in order to obtain their licenses; why not make them pass tests of citizenship?


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 11):
Agreed. In my opinion, as a society, we can no longer afford to let folks who don't support our values in their professional capacity teach our children.

Agreed too. I believe that politics should be made separate from the classroom.

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
Sure enough, his teachers have been drilling into his head that the military is evil,

I agree with this too, I was drilled to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in elementary school, but never told what it meant, until I thought about it myself after 9/11. Here's one for the teachers and elementary schools:
What is the point of saying the pledge if you do not know what it means? It's just a senseless jumble of words they teach children...no true thought to the nation for which it stands...


User currently offlinePadraighaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3771 times:

Quoting Cfalk (Thread starter):
“It is the soldier, not the journalist, who guarantees freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the student protestor, who guarantees freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the politician, who guarantees the freedom to vote.”

In what way? I don't see how this works. What did the military do to stop the censorship of photographs of flag-draped coffins? In the 60's the National Guard was instrumental in attempting to suppress student protesters. The military runs it's own media to help isolate soldiers from the free media they claim to protect. We had a military before the civil rights movement; this abuse was not removed through military force; The military I believe ran the internment camps where US citizens of japanese ancestry were interned - ar at a minimum did nothing to stop the practice.

I agree that without the military, you could conceivably argue america might be conquered, but this is a statement of america being 'free' in the sense of not being controlled by another nation; this has nothing to do with freedoms in the sense of being free to vote, or speak.


Padraig Houlahan
Flagstaff, AZ


User currently offlineDavestanKSAN From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 1678 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3763 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
School boards have a lot of power to hire and fire, and if you're, say, an America-hater, they probably do have the right to say, "Thanks, but we don't need your services just now."

True, but then again it would be too hard to judge. Politics would get involved, people would assume things, i.e. ohh you're a right winger, you're going to teach intellegent design, ohh you're a left winger, you are Anti-American!!11111 OMG OMG!!!!! Of course, both are not true, but some people have these preconceived notions.

Ahh just let the kids play dodgeball and call each other clever.

Dave



Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3763 times:

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 18):
The military I believe ran the internment camps where US citizens of japanese ancestry were interned - ar at a minimum did nothing to stop the practice.

The military acted on the orders of Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- a Democratic President. Now, by itself, the internment doesn't mean that FDR was anything but a great President, but, one should probably admit, some believe that it does lessen his greatness just a bit.

Others continue to believe that his actions were justified.

I believe we would have had a very substantial Constitutional crisis had the military defied the orders of the Commander in Chief in that regard.

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:19:15]

User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 19):
True, but then again it would be too hard to judge.

Well, on the other hand, as a teacher, one would be expected to support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution provides for an army and a navy. Surely our Founding Fathers did not provide for an army believing that it should be used for criminal purposes?

(See Article I, Section 8. E.g., http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut...onstitution.articlei.html#section8.)

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:25:05]

User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16):
why not make them pass tests of citizenship?

And where is it written that to be an American citizen, you must support and like the military? You are trying to place your subjective criteria on what should/should not be taught in schools.

Again, I'm not supporting what this teacher is reported to have done. Both ethically and most likely in District Policy, she's violated any number of rules, and if thats the case, that should be the basis of any discipline, not because she doesn't 'share our values'.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineDavestanKSAN From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 1678 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 21):
Well, on the other hand, as a teacher, one would be expected to support the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution provides for an army and a navy. Surely our Founding Fathers did not provide for an army believing that it should be used for criminal purposes?

True. I was thinking more along the lines of the hiring process for teachers and how difficult it would be to judge if they are, in fact, an 'America-Hater.'

Teachers should be able to express their opinions, but I would imagine its hard to differentiate opinion from fact when you're a 7 year old and your teacher presents it in a factual way. Not to take anything away from 7 year olds, kids are crazy smart these days. Maybe I played too much Dodge Ball. Ahh forget it.      

DvaE

[Edited 2006-08-23 01:44:17]


Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
User currently offlinePadraighaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 20):
The military acted on the orders of Franklin Delano Roosevelt -- a Democratic President. Now, by itself, the internment doesn't mean that FDR was anything but a great President, but, one should probably admit, some believe that it does lessen his greatness just a bit.

Others continue to believe that his actions were justified.

I believe we would have had a very substantial Constitutional crisis had the military defied the orders of the Commander in Chief in that regard.

I agree. But this seems to suggest the statement about protecting freedoms of one sort or another is an overstatement. Providing the extremely valuable service of preventing america from being conquered, is not the same as protecting our freedoms; it does provide an opportunity of having a free society - if the citizens and politicians can make it happen.

Regards,

Padraig Houlahan
Flagstaff, AZ


25 AeroWesty : The military had zip, zilch, nada to do with the Japanese internment camps during WWII. They were run by the War Relocation Authority, under the ausp
26 AerospaceFan : Teachers can be citizens, and generally are. (Some may be permanent citizens, I would imagine.) But, as teachers, there should be, if there isn't, a
27 Post contains links AerospaceFan : Didn't the military guard the internment camps? See, e.g.: (Excerpt) (Footnote in original source. Original source at: http://www.geocities.com/Athen
28 Longhornmaniac : I'm not entirely sure if you meant it the way I took it, so if you didn't, I apologize for the unnecessary confusion. I don't think that its a totall
29 AndesSMF : That is a complete outrage. Teachers are there to teach, letting the children form their own opinion, with their own basis. I find it even more outrag
30 AeroWesty : Your link doesn't work, but regardless, this is a thread about Cfalk's nephew and class instruction in Kentucky, not a debate about the Japanese inte
31 Searpqx : So they are, but your opening argument didn't have anything to do with oaths. You said we shouldn't let people who don't support 'our values' teach.
32 Padraighaz : From wikipedia concerning Executive Order 9066: *** This order authorized U.S. armed forces commanders to declare areas of the United States as milit
33 AerospaceFan : But I'm not sure you succeeded, in this case, AeroWesty. I did. And supporting the existence of the military is part of those values. Calling the mil
34 AeroWesty : Again, this topic is not about Japanese internment. The executive order Roosevelt signed called for the removal of the Japanese from military zones.
35 Post contains images AndesSMF : PERFECT!!
36 AerospaceFan : But the military was involved. You said that it wasn't. "Military police" are part of the military, AeroWesty. Back on topic: As long as a teacher te
37 AeroWesty : Start a thread on it if you'd like. EDIT: If you do, recall the original post that I was disputing: [Edited 2006-08-23 02:11:58]
38 Padraighaz : Now wait a minute. The topic starter had a closing statement about how the military protects our freedoms (to vote, to protest, and to speak,) so the
39 AeroWesty : Fair enough. Your initial post that I quoted in Reply #37 corrects the factually incorrect information you posted in Reply #18.
40 Searpqx : Agreed (to an extent, personal opinions, presented properly, do have a place), and pretty much what I've been saying. However your above quote is a h
41 AeroWesty : As a further aside, you might want to look up posse comitatus and how it applies in this instance.
42 Planespotting : Hmmm... Not to take a devil's advocate approach to this...but...what about the indoctrination that most children get from most teachers at that age...
43 AerospaceFan : But I would say that guidelines are set in accordance with values, and in some cases, must mandate the teaching of those values, as well. For example
44 Halls120 : Ever heard of posse comitatus? Obviously not. The military was, and is controlled by a civilian commander in chief. The President. To the extent the
45 Gunsontheroof : Did you actually find out he got this idea from a teacher? How do you know that his seven year old mind simply isn't equating killing in any capacity
46 AerospaceFan : Sadly, that wasn't my experience. There was a leftist high school teacher of mine who even called the country we lived in the "United Snakes of Ameri
47 Padraighaz : What factually incorrect information? Can you be more specific please? I have offered no correction in #37 to anything in #18. I think you are seriou
48 Greasespot : Where in the constitution does it say you must support the military.... If someone thinks it is un-american to be pro-life or for gay marriage does t
49 Padraighaz : So what? If you read the full discussion, you will see I was responding to a claim that our military protects our right to vote, protest, and free sp
50 AerospaceFan : As I said, public school teachers (of which I assume the subject teacher is one) should be required to teach what is on the curriculum, and should be
51 Padraighaz : This makes no sense. If I point out the military were involved in a gross violation of US citizens' liberties, to show that the military claim "they
52 Greasespot : Dream on....The teacher spends 4-6 hours a day for the better part of the year with kids...Police take the oaths.....So do judges...Do you think they
53 AeroWesty : Let me take you through this step-by-step. I'm not interested in a long protracted debate on this issue. Factually wrong: Factually correct: Now, wer
54 LTBEWR : Maybe he has been watching too much news on TV about the war in Iraq, without parental supervision, advice or context. Perhaps his peers have expresse
55 AerospaceFan : In their official capacity, judges cannot give out their personal opinions in the manner you've implied. I'm not talking about the oath given to witn
56 Post contains links AerospaceFan : In addition to the two sources (including the footnoted one in the excerpt) that I've provided, I'll provide a third, which specifically states that
57 Post contains images Greasespot : You have edited it AFTER i posted.... GS
58 Post contains images AerospaceFan : That's quite correct. I apologize for the initial lack of clarity in the original text, upon which you reasonably relied.[Edited 2006-08-23 04:22:10]
59 Gunsontheroof : Sadly, it was mine. Teaching American history without mentioning the genocidal policies instituted against indigenous peoples by murderers like Andre
60 AeroWesty : I've no problem conceeding that there was an Army escort of some of the caravans. Did you note the last section of that page? I'll bold the interesti
61 Halls120 : But you suggested that the military could or should have taken direct action to end racial discrimination. That was simply not possible under our Con
62 AerospaceFan : But your initial claim was that the Army had nothing to do with the relocation. That's clearly wrong. May I remind you of your words in Reply 25, whi
63 Padraighaz : You can find the text (see below) of Executive Order 9066 on ourdocuments.gov, a government website. It clearly shows the military were given authori
64 Post contains images AirCop : Back on topic, Let see your nephew is either a 2nd or 3rd grader. No way a teacher in that grade level would even be talking about that sort of subjec
65 AeroWesty : If you want to get picayune, which apparently you do, I'll remind you that in the original quote I said they had nothing to do with the "camps" as it
66 AerospaceFan : Further, AeroWesty, may I add (to avoid editing my above post), that the article states that the Army would supervise operations within the camps: Sou
67 Diamond : So if a 7 year-old uses a word that you find offensive, it is part of a "vast left-wing conspiracy?" To a kid in 2nd grade the idea of killing someone
68 AeroWesty : You know, you may call it whatever you'd like, if "obsessing" works for you, great, you've made just as many posts. Now, onto the facts. The military
69 Post contains links AerospaceFan : Please see: (Excerpt) http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist8/evac2.html Further, and more to the point, the source from which I excerpted several passages, ab
70 Gunsontheroof : According to cfalk, the young lad asked if he was a murderer, whereas the thread title states that he called him one. Perhaps the title better suits
71 AeroWesty : Again, you may argue this all day, I've other things to do. Was the original statement correct? No. It was corrected. Get over it. Really.
72 AeroWesty : Again, get over it. Having some military police on hand does not make that the operation was "run" by the military, which was the point being correct
73 AerospaceFan : That's fine, AeroWesty. But I will add that it's important to realize that the Army did participate in, and did run, the Japanese-American internment
74 AerospaceFan : However, please see: Further, it was clear from another poster's kind excerpt that the directive of internment involved the Secretary of War in a sub
75 AeroWesty : Dude, move on. Just move on.
76 AeroWesty : Dude, move on. Just move on.
77 Padraighaz : No I didn't. I'm pointing out that if the claim "the military defends our freedom to exercise liberty X" has merit, then they would have intervened t
78 Halls120 : You clarify the "overstatement" by making a wholly out of context comparison - because the military didn't end racial discrimination, they don't defe
79 Padraighaz : Therfore the military knew about the camps which tooks away major freedoms from US citizens, and they did nothing to stop it for whatever great reaso
80 AeroWesty : Dude, move on. Just move on. I'm watching the NOVA special on The Red Baron for the next hour. Looks great.
81 Post contains links AerospaceFan : I hate to disagree with you, but I draw the opposite conclusion. At the time, the Army had to do what it had to do -- protect the freedom and securit
82 Padraighaz : No, I have said that because of their involvement in killing protesters in the 60s, and in interring US citizens of japanese ancestry, coupled with t
83 AerospaceFan : Well.... You cannot have one without the other, though.
84 Padraighaz : So it was the courts that ultimately protected our freedoms, not the military. We are in agreement for the most part; to the extent the military shou
85 AerospaceFan : It's a bit ironic, though, that the Supreme Court sided with FDR in this case, as I think you would agree. Although we agree in many respects in this
86 Post contains links AerospaceFan : May I add, as well, by way of elaboration, that the concept of the professional soldier is extremely important in the United States. From the rawest o
87 ChrisI1024 : Seven year olds tend not to be terribly accurate in conveying information. If they were, they'd be journalists.
88 Post contains images AerospaceFan : Worse than journalists! What a way to insult seven-year-olds!
89 Planespotting : argh! There are some good journalists out there! gosh. hmph.
90 Padraighaz : Yes, I would. Very eloquently put and I think it emphasizes the difference between intent and action. I believe most military officers in our profess
91 HAWK21M : Have a Talk with the kid.Explain things how they really are.Maybe talk to the Teacher too. If things are not seen right.Show the Right way. regds MEL
92 AerospaceFan : I know. I was just joking. Well put. If nothing else, perhaps this is as good a position of compromise between your views and mine on this matter as
93 MD-90 : That boy's got balls...I would never have had the nerve to say something like that as a 7-year old to one of my uncles (all of whom served during Viet
94 Post contains images Sebolino : You should say that to Chinese people and other dictatorship citizens.
95 QANTASforever : We report, you decide kinda thing? I think that's ridiculous. Politics is important and affects us all. Children should be told the basics of politic
96 Gunsontheroof : Interesting. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on how soldiers in Iraq, Vietnam and Korea have quelled threats to the freedom of the American press, my
97 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : is there still some space left to the right of you ?
98 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Complete agreement with AP here. First, though, I'd want to sit and talk with him - find out where he got this idea. If it's the school then proceed
99 Post contains images N229NW : I'm sorry but that is scarier than whatever his teacher is telling him. If you can dictate "our values" so that no teacher in a school can question t
100 Jush : Sorry vut this is complete rubbish. The soldier isn't guaranteeing anything. But thanks to them we can enjoy pleasures like that. As much as your nep
101 Halls120 : I am amazed that you have so blatantly denied your own words. Since you are suddenly afflicted with selective amnesia, here are your exact words from
102 Post contains images Cfalk : That is an issue for me. The Pedge of allegience is an iffy proposition in a classroom, because you can have people who are not US citizens. They can
103 ME AVN FAN : ok. thanks for this good answer !
104 Post contains images Cfalk : Sory, but that is rubbish. You are making a bogus distiction. The natural order of things is that some are strong, some are weak. The strong will ris
105 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Well, what's so strange about that? He's only SEVEN years old CHILD, remeber? Frankly, every other answer would be reason for concern, imho. Would yo
106 TACAA320 : What are their parents doing about this?
107 ME AVN FAN : sure about this ? spoken with these kids ? my guess is that most of these kids, exactly those on the picture, are even heavily afraid of dying. Anoth
108 Post contains images LY744 : How can a reasonably articulate person be so incredibly thick? "The military ran the imprisonment camps"? OK, when a police officer is out on a highw
109 Sprout5199 : If you change the word "guarantees" to protects, it give a better sense for the reason why we do have a military. the only thing that guarantees all
110 Post contains links Cfalk : The Constitution is only a scrap of paper. It won't guarantee anything by itself apart from usefulness when you've run out of toilet paper. What guar
111 Post contains images Fxramper : I think he has a Paypal account you can send donations to! Excellent. I'm up at MEM on occassion for work! Maybe we'll catch up!
112 Dvk : What are you talking about here? I'd really like some examples of this. Kentucky was a "border" state, but in what way has it ever been "HARDCORE lef
113 DeltaDC9 : Yep, as in any state. Do you really think that all the teachers here are FROM Kentucky or went to college in Kentucky? After the federal lawsuit agai
114 Padraighaz : Yes, that is the implied conclusion IF a statement "the military defend the rights to speak, vote and protest" is true. To the extent they are unable
115 Dvk : KY was a border state during the Civil War, and the population was much more split over slavery than most other states at the time. That's the only t
116 Padraighaz : Yep; it's still a free country and I'm working overtime to keep it that way. I see. So all the great talk about defending various rights is just that
117 Planespotting : That nice image you posted is ridiculous. Any organization or person who encourages parents not to send their children to college/university is doing
118 Padraighaz : I don't see the parallel between police officers enfiorcing speed limits, and the military supposedly protecting voting rights etc. But, as you said
119 Diamond : Burning a flag in a classroom was a stupid error in judgement by a teacher that may or may not be conservative. It says nothing about his politics, a
120 Post contains images Diamond : Serious paranoia alert, man. Really. I'm getting the impression that if Kentucky were 95% red and 5% blue, you'd still have most of your energy wrapp
121 Padraighaz : I think you are very wrong here. The military is not suppossed to get involved in civilian affairs, and therefore shouldn't influence them one way or
122 Planespotting : I believe Cfalk said the text quoted by Diamond, not N229NW...
123 Cfalk : Have you seen Fahrenheit 911?
124 Sprout5199 : I think its a big catch 22, you need a strong military to have self-rule, but you also need a strong constitution to protect the self-rule from the m
125 DeltaDC9 : This was a statement, plain and simple, with respect to the recent defeat of the flag burning bill after a lot of ugliness here in Kentucky. It was n
126 Padraighaz : I agree. I wouldn't use the term catch-22 though since, to me, it implies one is inconsistent with the other. I think it is the Constitution that pre
127 Padraighaz : It's a relief that some parents found a way to avoid indoctrination. Regards, Padraig Houlahan
128 Post contains images Diamond : Yes I have. And I think you're completely missing my point. One movie (911) does not speak for everyone that is "un-Rebuplican". In fact, it doesn't
129 Cfalk : I never said he did. He represents the far-left, not mainstream democrats. I know that. I never said she did. She speaks for herself, and unfortunate
130 Post contains images AndesSMF : That qoute is so wrong it is not even funny. How many teachers unions do you know that provide financial support to any Republican party? Have you fo
131 Padraighaz : This, from the guy who referred to the teacher as being on the "kooky left" and who wrote: Do us all a favor dude, stop protecting our freedom of spe
132 Cfalk : If you think that indoctrinating young kids is a responsible excercise of free speech, you are one sick MF.
133 AirCop : I don't know about anybody else, but the impression was that from the very start of the tread this was a PUBLIC SCHOOL, not private. Changes the disc
134 Padraighaz : Indoctrination goes on all the time in this country both in schools and in churches and on the media. The Pledge of Allegiance is a form of indoctrin
135 Maury : I think the right thing to do would be to post about it on a.net...that way, a few partisan bashes could be gotten in, a very long discussion about wh
136 Cfalk : I do have an issue with the pledge and I said so. But I also said that the pledge is rather benign as pledges go. My problem is that it assumes that
137 DeltaDC9 : Not in the schools, especially at the University level. And where do teachers get thier degrees? Education has long been a more liberal persuit, just
138 Jamesag96 : Hasn't this already been covered? Free Speech is not ABSOLUTE, I am not free to run into a movie house and scream fire, I am not free to talk about h
139 DeltaDC9 : It really is, perhaps it is just the way you are looking at it. The key to it is that your freedoms and rights only extend to the point at which they
140 Diamond : I'm glad you and your wife talk. Any chance that because she is your wife, that the two of you view things from a similar perspective? I agree that t
141 DeltaDC9 : I am 42, conservative, Catholic, and have a MBA and a BS in Computer Science, and spent 20 years in show business working with Heavy Metal bands. She
142 AndesSMF : Prove it. I think if you take a look at the education budgets, at any level, you will find out that this has not happened. No, their values are simpl
143 Maury : So...no info on the private school's affiliation. Could have been interesting to know. Perhaps convenient not to answer.
144 Dvk : One of the stupidest cliches in existence. This is strictly your perception, and could never be proven.
145 Braybuddy : But what do you become when you are older and wiser?
146 Post contains images Cfalk : Become a Republican
147 Slider : OMG! Just inconceivable. My kids have saluted soldiers in uniform at the airport before, have a couple of their uncles in the military now, and I've
148 Post contains images Piercey : and I learned how to read through car brouchers, all kids are different. Why I love private schools, there is no bueraucratic bs their. Glad noone is
149 57AZ : How true. We as a nation have a very spotty record on human rights if you make a strict interpretation of the defination. What really galls me is how
150 Braybuddy : From what I see in here, the Republicans are just a bunch of gun toting nutcases. Older, but hardly wiser!
151 Post contains images TWISTEDWHISPER : Right... I've spent the last 27 years of the 30 that I've lived so far in Sweden. I've been in the army, UN forces and a few months as a contractor,
152 DeltaDC9 : My guess is an independent. You might want to look up the definition of cliche. Actually it is not, it is a well known cultural trend that is widely
153 Cfalk : I understand what you are saying, and respectfully submit that you are wrong. I think what you are missing is a perspective which is unfortunately no
154 ME AVN FAN : a bit off-topic, but please be careful with translations of Swiss political terms. While the "Liberale Partei der Schweiz" disappeared in the 1950ies
155 VSLover : WOW. thats a stretch. so you are saying we have cut off a potential holocaust by a country that faced the same economic pressures and crisis of confi
156 Post contains images Windshear : Where is this quote from? Me likes and agrees Oh and by the way Charles, I just got back from Singapore... Must say that I have no negative words to
157 Dvk : cliche: "a trite phrase or expression". I stand by what I said earlier. This is highly variable from college to college. You equate "liberal" with an
158 Post contains images Cfalk : Regardless of the small differences, the hints existed in 1936 that Hitler was a serious threat. Winston Churchill argued in parliament for intervent
159 Post contains images Windshear : Ha! I saw it and thought of you I must say, no police around, yet all is clean and safe! Which is more than what you can say about many other Asian c
160 AndesSMF : Yes, have not read of all the liberals that have called for the assassination of GWB and other righties? And have you seen any of them jailed? But ho
161 Christeljs : I work with kids, and there is this 8 year old that knows everything about 9/11 and has an answer to everything you say and to be honest just think h
162 AndesSMF : Yes, with two kids of my own I know what you are talking about! But to clarify my point, I said that I personally wouldn't talk to them about it. If
163 Jaysit : Why don't you take this up with your nephew, your psychiatrist, the teacher, the school, or your Congressman in absentia instead of trotting this stu
164 Post contains links AndesSMF : http://lonestarreality.blogspot.com/...rage-new-york-times-calls-for.html http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/13/dem.ad/ http://www.freerepublic.c
165 Post contains images Jaysit : " target=_blank>http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/...r.htm ROFL! If this is what you can come up with after trolling the internet, its no surprise w
166 Post contains links DeltaDC9 : I admit it, you were right, I could not find "one" poll....I found DOZENS with no effort. Here are a few: http://www.iop.harvard.edu/pdfs/survey/spri
167 Padraighaz : This was offered in response to: ***You*** should have put some more effort into this. I looked at the survey you quote and is it concerned with the
168 Cfalk : I thought this forum existed so that we can discuss things that are important to us. What kind of threads do you start? Let's see... July 4 Weekend:
169 Dvk : I'm sorry, but you did not prove your thesis. The Harvard survey actually shows that well over 50% are conservative or centrist, which confirms what
170 Halls120 : Nice, but I see that you continue to deny your own posted words. Here they are again, in case you forgot. So when are you going to admit that you ini
171 Padraighaz : Neither. Look at it this way: CLAIM: The military defends the right to vote, the right to protest, the right to speak etc. MY RESPONSE: *IF* it's suc
172 Halls120 : Nice try. I do give you credit for responding, however. Most people, when faced with the fact that they have been exposed at talking out of both side
173 Padraighaz : Ok I think I see your objection. You are pointing out, correctly, that I shifted gears in changing the manner in which I postulated military interven
174 Halls120 : Congratulations. You finally get it. Active action to quell discrimination is one h*ll of a lot different than protecting demonstrators who were prot
175 Padraighaz : Yes these are very different actions, but so what? As far as the case I'm making goes, they both are postulated examples of active intervention to de
176 Cfalk : I don't see your point. Without the military, police and other instruments of force, how do our leaders defend our freedoms? Harsh Language? Rhetoric
177 Padraighaz : I never said anything about non-military "instruments of force" since your topic starter only referred to soldiers in your closing paragraph of post
178 Cfalk : I can't find any such answer. Let me put it to you again. Who defends your freedoms when the sh!t hits the fan?
179 Padraighaz : You are correct. I just noticed the phrasing: Which of course is very different than your original statement that places soldiers above journalists a
180 Post contains images Halls120 : simply amazing. you initially make a claim that the military should have acted to end racial discrimination using force. Later on, you state that the
181 Cfalk : Not at all. Journalists and politicians are the primary beneficiaries of these freedoms. The people at large are, arguabley the secondary beneficiari
182 Padraighaz : I don't see much point in going further with this. You seem unable to appreciate there are two very different but related issues here, namely: 1. Wha
183 Padraighaz : And I'm sure the protestors at Kent State, and the interred Japanese US citizens appreciate this. Padraig Houlahan.
184 Skyhawk : First of all I would like to thank you and all of those that you serve with for defending me and the country that I love dearly. If it were not for yo
185 Cfalk : Your point? If you think that the military should be judged just on its mistakes, how about we only judge you on the questions you answered incorrect
186 Padraighaz : I'm not ignoring anything. I recognize the military for the great service they provide in keeping the US from being invaded. But pre-WWII german mili
187 Halls120 : That's your decision. But it doesn't surprise me, given your reluctance to admit the obvious contradictions in your arguments and your clear unfamili
188 Post contains links Padraighaz : Examples of our rights and freedoms being guaranteed by the military. [In no particular order except what google found (listed below.) There are plent
189 Halls120 : To be factually accurate, virtually every instance you list is an example of the military being ordered by civilian authority to uphold law and order
190 Padraighaz : Indian wars and striking worker deaths are mere "distasteful events" in this logic. So what if they die at the hands of those who claim to be guarant
191 Cfalk : How about you try the same thing. Apart from the military, what other defences are there against a Hitler, Osama Bin Ladin, King George III, Stalin o
192 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : may I suppose that this thread has given you ample opportunity to see that "the" military, even if exactly the case of Lebanon has shown that a deter
193 Padraighaz : All of which are external threats and are consistent with my assertion the military best defends independence/self-rule which as the historical examp
194 Halls120 : Thanks, but I'm very comfortable with my position. And the last person I'd take advice from on this issue is someone who has but a passing relationsh
195 Padraighaz : I never said they should/ought to intervene. I said they didn't intervene, but you are inferring more into this than I intended and you seem unable t
196 Halls120 : Sure you did. In post 18. I can't "get past" what you said, because 1) you don't have the intellectual honesty to admit that you did in fact say the
197 Padraighaz : Well, now we've degenerated into a 'tis-'tisn't mode. I retracted my statement and you ignored this in order to retain your hang-up. Was fun chatting
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