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Remind Me Why Favre Didn't Retire  
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1427 times:

Just casually watching the pre-season game tonight, Green Bay and Cincinatti. With a little more than 2 minutes left in the 1st half Cincy is now up 31-zip.

So why did Favre decide to play another season? And it isn't even his rookie help up front, he has made some ugly mistakes himself tonight.


Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21500 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1427 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Thread starter):
With a little more than 2 minutes left in the 1st half Cincy is now up 31-zip.

Last I checked it was 7-0 Bengals halfway through the first - they sure racked up some points in a hurry.

Quoting DesertJets (Thread starter):
So why did Favre decide to play another season?

It sure wasn't so that he could drop the ball while raising it to pass (fumble recovered for a TD) and then throw an interception on the next posession....

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Thread starter):
Just casually watching the pre-season game tonight, Green Bay and Cincinatti. With a little more than 2 minutes left in the 1st half Cincy is now up 31-zip.

So why did Favre decide to play another season? And it isn't even his rookie help up front, he has made some ugly mistakes himself tonight.

Haven't had a chance to watch the game tonight. But I think Brett Farve is trying to lead Green Bay to another Superbowl. I doubt he can do it personally, but after all of the loyalty that he has shown the Cheeseheads, how could management not bring him back for a swan song?


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1412 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Thread starter):
So why did Favre decide to play another season?

Glutton for punishment?

Maybe we can run a contest to see which NFL team will have a worse season - the Packers or the Redskins.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21500 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1407 times:

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 2):
but after all of the loyalty that he has shown the Cheeseheads, how could management not bring him back for a swan song?

Because there already was a swan song - last season.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNeilYYZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1401 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):

Because there already was a swan song - last season.

I'd agree with that, I suppose he wanted an encore to the swan song.


User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

In short, Favre drank the Kool-Aid. There is this belief here in the mystical land of cheese and beer that somehow, despite going 4-12, that the Packers are still essentialy the same team that went to two superbowls in the 90's, and that all these losses are due to bad luck-nothing else.

There are many people here who honestly believe that as long as Brett is leading the offense glory will come. Never mind the fact that Brett is half the quarterbck he used to be and tries to make up for it by making stupid mistake after stupid mistake. Because Favre is there the Packers have no need for free agents, an offensive line, a defense!!

If the Packers want to compete they need to rebuild from the ground up, and that means giving Favre the boot and starting Aaron Rodgers. Then at least the team can start its climb back up. But as long as Favre is still hanging around that is on hold.



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

So what is it then.... is its Favre's ego, that he can be the one to lead the team to greatness, or is it a love of the game thing that he just can't let go (like when MJ was playing for the Wizards a few years back).


Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

*@()$&(@(&Y V)*(@U ($&*Y B_!Q(_*Y#

Favre . . . .



User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21500 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1362 times:

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 5):
I suppose he wanted an encore to the swan song.

And Packers fans want their team to win games.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

We are not even finished with the pre-season yet and everyone is writting Favre off. Don't ya think it might be just a tad early for that?


It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4681 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1338 times:

Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 10):
We are not even finished with the pre-season yet and everyone is writting Favre off

Fair enough - I'll write off the whole squad - they do not look good at all!



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineCFCUQ From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Favre . . . .

 laughing   laughing   laughing   laughing 
While I don't normally follow shrunken field North American football, I do see some of it, and I'd have to agree.
Nice photoshop,BTW, inspired by LEW, were we ?


User currently offlineAAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1332 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 6):

hmmm even if he is half the Qb he was he's still a damn good QB. so he made a couple of mistakes his offensive line is young not to mention undersized and weak it will take them some time to gel. he has ! legitimite recevier and they 're learning a new system. remember a week ago they stomped the falcons 38-10.

He stays because he loves to play.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1332 times:

Quoting CFCUQ (Reply 12):
Nice photoshop,BTW, inspired by LEW, were we ?

I cannot take the credit . . . I got it from a friend, and it speaks volumes of the Pack the last year or so . . .

 biggrin 


User currently offlineCFCUQ From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Pack the last year or so

Like I said, I don't see a lot of it ( we get Seattle rammed down our throats ) but I'd have to agree, can you guys dig up Reggie White ?
(No offense intended)


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

Quoting CFCUQ (Reply 15):
( we get Seattle rammed down our throats )

I'm sorry . . .  laughing 

Quoting CFCUQ (Reply 15):
can you guys dig up Reggie White ?

Would be nice wouldn't it!


User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Thread starter):
Green Bay and Cincinatti.

I think that his goal is to keep playing until someone that doesn't (or hasn't) live (or lived) in Cincinnati spells the name of the city correctly.

Fav-ruh has a long career ahead of him.

*ducks and runs away!*

 Big grin  Big grin  Big grin



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineMKEdude From South Korea, joined May 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
hmmm even if he is half the Qb he was he's still a damn good QB.

Not quite. The Packers of the 90's were a good team that included Brett Favre as a key piece. Now you have Favre +10 years and...and...well 4-12 kinda says it all.

Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
so he made a couple of mistakes his offensive line is young not to mention undersized and weak it will take them some time to gel.

A couple? How many INTs has he thrown in the last few seasons? Favre always had the athleticisim, but he never had a good head. Now the athleticisim is gone and...seeing a trend here?

Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
he has ! legitimite recevier and they 're learning a new system. remember a week ago they stomped the falcons 38-10.

I know, I was there. The Falcons were treating it as an exhibition game and the Packers were playing as if a playoff slot was on the line. You had the Pack first stringers playing against those who will still be back-ups when suiting up for Frankfurt or Amsterdam next year. The Cincy game was more representitive of what we can expect this season.

Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
He stays because he loves to play.

And I loved Michelle Cosgrove, but when she started calling the cops on me our relationship was never the same.

Look if you are a Brett Favre fan and you are trying to slip in a few last days at the beach while the leafs are changing color above you, go ahead. But if you are a Packers fan you have to wake up and realize that this is not the same team that ran roughshod over Bledsoe and the Pats at the Superdome in '97. The Pack has got to start over with draft picks, free agents, and yes-a new QB. The youth movement in Green Bay is never going to gel if #4 continues to take all the snaps.

No matter what the next few years are going to be rough for Packer fans. As soon as Favre steps aside the new era can begin. Until then...4-12, 5-11 you get the picture.



"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 11):
Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 10):
We are not even finished with the pre-season yet and everyone is writting Favre off

Fair enough - I'll write off the whole squad - they do not look good at all!

 checkmark  The entire team looked pretty bad last night.


User currently offlineRipdog From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1270 times:

Yea I think Favre still loves this game and does not want to let go. He looks to have a good gun of an arm but he is throwing into coverage that should not be thrown into. He seems to be trying to force the ball. But anyway, I have enjoyed watching him over the years.

I`m a Tampa boy here in Nashville, so go Bucs! But they do not look so good themselves and the Titans just plain stink.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1248 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 6):
In short, Favre drank the Kool-Aid. There is this belief here in the mystical land of cheese and beer that somehow, despite going 4-12, that the Packers are still essentialy the same team that went to two superbowls in the 90's, and that all these losses are due to bad luck-nothing else.

There are many people here who honestly believe that as long as Brett is leading the offense glory will come. Never mind the fact that Brett is half the quarterbck he used to be and tries to make up for it by making stupid mistake after stupid mistake. Because Favre is there the Packers have no need for free agents, an offensive line, a defense!!

If the Packers want to compete they need to rebuild from the ground up, and that means giving Favre the boot and starting Aaron Rodgers. Then at least the team can start its climb back up. But as long as Favre is still hanging around that is on hold.

Couldn't agree more.

Bad decisions, terrible mechanics, forcing balls, not making his reads, still not responding to coaching, and a willing media still portray him as a gutsy "gunslinger" instead of a QB who, while a legend, is over it. It's tragic.


User currently offlineAAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1229 times:

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 18):
Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
hmmm even if he is half the Qb he was he's still a damn good QB.

Not quite. The Packers of the 90's were a good team that included Brett Favre as a key piece. Now you have Favre +10 years and...and...well 4-12 kinda says it all.

Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
so he made a couple of mistakes his offensive line is young not to mention undersized and weak it will take them some time to gel.

A couple? How many INTs has he thrown in the last few seasons? Favre always had the athleticisim, but he never had a good head. Now the athleticisim is gone and...seeing a trend here?

Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
he has ! legitimite recevier and they 're learning a new system. remember a week ago they stomped the falcons 38-10.

I know, I was there. The Falcons were treating it as an exhibition game and the Packers were playing as if a playoff slot was on the line. You had the Pack first stringers playing against those who will still be back-ups when suiting up for Frankfurt or Amsterdam next year. The Cincy game was more representitive of what we can expect this season.

Quoting AAden (Reply 13):
He stays because he loves to play.

And I loved Michelle Cosgrove, but when she started calling the cops on me our relationship was never the same.

Look if you are a Brett Favre fan and you are trying to slip in a few last days at the beach while the leafs are changing color above you, go ahead. But if you are a Packers fan you have to wake up and realize that this is not the same team that ran roughshod over Bledsoe and the Pats at the Superdome in '97. The Pack has got to start over with draft picks, free agents, and yes-a new QB. The youth movement in Green Bay is never going to gel if #4 continues to take all the snaps.

No matter what the next few years are going to be rough for Packer fans. As soon as Favre steps aside the new era can begin. Until then...4-12, 5-11 you get the picture.

favres on of the best Qbs of all-time if he could have ! more decent season he'd own every major passing record. they've only had one losing season with him I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that he's still got it.

he threw 27ints last year 14 of those bounced off the hands of his receivers. he has no oline ! receiver and a couple of average running backs so I really doubt that it's him. although he has and always will make bad decisions with the ball.

you watched the packers last year right. they were down to there practice squad running back and playing with their first fourth and fith wide out. if they stay healthy they will be okay. Not great but Okay 9-7


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

Quoting AAden (Reply 22):
he threw 27ints last year 14 of those bounced off the hands of his receivers. he has no oline ! receiver and a couple of average running backs so I really doubt that it's him. although he has and always will make bad decisions with the ball.

29 INTs actually. This is from a buddy of mine who writes on a Packers forum--I think it sums it up realistically without being a Favre Koolaid drinker or unfair critic:

"When he was winning his MVPs I thought he was the greatest QB ever...I'd never seen a guy with such an arm, and the way he could run around and buy time for receivers to work open....and then STILL be able to reach them.....was just a marvel. I really thought we'd be bringing home several Lombardi trophies.

But in 1998, he threw it away 23 times and had 8 fumbles (only 2 lost) and it didn't seem as though Holmgren had much interest in reining him in. At the time, a couple of us remarked about the apparent lack of self-discipline or discipline from the coaching staff, and how difficult it must be to tell a guy who's just won 3 MVPs that he needs to take better care of the ball.

Then came Ray Rhodes in 1999. Favre played great in the opener, and afterwards when Ray Rhodes was gushing about him in the locker room a thought struck me: This was Favre's team now....not Holmgren's any longer and certainly not Ray Rhode's. Reggie White was gone and it was all about Favre now.

We went 8-8, Favre struggled with a thumb injury through much of the season. Personally, at the time I was wondering why Hasselbeck wasn't playing....he'd looked good in preseason....but in retrospect I now recognize that this was the beginning of THE LEGEND that Brett Favre was the Packers 'best chance to win'....even when he had a significant injury that clearly impaired his ability.

He threw another 23 picks that year, and The Thumb was generally given credit for that. He also had a very bad line in front of him that year.....worse than the 2005 line, IMO, and spent a lot of time just trying to escape the rush.

So at that time I was aware that he was turning it over a lot, but I was also cognizant of the impact of coaching and the line play on him.

But then the Sherman era started, and I can clearly remember the first time that I said "Favre hurt us". We lost our first two games and Favre turnovers figured prominently in each loss. In the Jet game, he threw a pick on the Jets 9 yard line with a minute to go in a game that we lost 20-16. In the Bills game, he had a costly fumble on a sack that was converted into a touchdown in a game we lost 28-19.

Again, following that game, a friend of mine and I were talking and the general gist of the conversation was.......Man, we could be 2-0 right now if we didn't have these turnovers.

But the ship kind of righted itself, and for the next three years Favre took pretty good care of the ball....throwing 15 or 16 picks in around 550 passes. Now, he was losing about 5 fumbles a year, so we were still average 20 turnovers/season at the QB position, but he was so prolific and so good at getting touchdowns on the board that I wasn't really seeing it as a big issue. Additionally, during that time we had a tremendous 24-5 streak so there really wasn't a lot to criticize.

The 2001 playoff game against the Rams was kind of an eye opener. I've never seen a "great" quarterback throw the ball away that many times in a playoff game. Never. And it was also when I first encountered the phenomena of fans that rationalize it. It was the receivers' fault, they said.

Now, history has shown us that 2001 was Favre's best season since he won his MVPs. It is the only time since then that he has ranked in the Top 5 in passer ratiing or Footballoutsiders.com rankings. He threw more 20 and 40 yard passes than any year outside his MVP years and his yards/attempt was the highest of his non- MVP years. He had 32 TDs and only 15 INTS....the last time his ratio was better than 2:1......so I thought then, and think now, that it was wrong to lay the terrible performance that day at the feet of the very guys who'd helped him have such a great season. From my perspective, he was simply not careful with the ball that day.

Personally, I thought that 2001 team was a very good team on both sides of the ball, and that they could have beaten the Rams that day if Favre had outplayed Warner.....which I expected he would. It was the first time that I remember feelling let down by #4.

But in 2002, he came out and played the best stretch anybody could have hoped for. By the Washington game the 7th week, he'd thrown 14 TDs and only 3 interceptions and the Packers were 6-1. But he was injured that game and if not for the bye week following, his consecutive start streak would have been snapped.

But from that game on, Brett Favre was never the same quarterback and the Packers were never the same team. We won the next two games to go to 8-1 and complete the 24-5 streak I'd mentioned before, but then we lost close games to Minnesota and Tampa Bay where Favre threw seven interceptions. He turned it over at least once in every game for the rest of the season, injuries mounted on the team, we collapsed in the finale against the Jets and then lost a playoff game for the first time ever in Lambeau to a warm weather, dome team quarterbacked by a guy who couldn't pass.

From the Minnesota loss in 2002 to present day, the Packers are 28-27 in the regular season and 29-30 overall. We've been a .500 team over the last 3 1/2 years but we didin't realize it because we kept making the playoffs.

In 2003, I became aware for the first time that Favre had lost some of the magic. Seven times that year the Packers had the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to tie or win and we failed every single time. 5 turnovers in the opener against Minnesota, a forced pass into coverage in the endzone against Arizona, a fumble in overtime against Kansas City, a three and out against Philadelphia on MNF, four interceptions against Detroit, a three and out in overtime against Seattle, an interception in overtime against Philadelphia.

Seven consecutive failures.

By 2004, it was clear to me that the team was heading downhill and that Favre was not going to be the answer. He wasn't really making game defining plays very often and he was turning it over enough to hurt. He still had good stretches and good games, but he was surrounded by some outstanding offensive talent that was probably making him look better than he really was. We won 4 games on last second field goals and lost at home in the playoffs to an 8-8 dome team that we'd beaten twice.

And we all remember what happened in 2005.

To me, the whole Favre thing is very cut and dried: He's a prolific quarterback who makes too many bad decisions with the ball. If you surround him with kickass talent we can roll up big numbers against weaklings, but when the Varsity shows up you can pretty much depend on Favre to have some critical mistakes with the ball. It doesn't mean I think he sucks or anything like that, it just means that I don't think he's going to take the Packers, or anybody else, anywhere anymore.

**************

For what it's worth...


User currently offlineAAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1195 times:

brett favre as of right now has a Qb rating of 86

joe montana has a 92.3

steve young the 96.3

john elway 79.9

dan marino had a rating of 86.4


montana was surrounded by superstars
elway stats suggest he was no better than an average qb and we know that to be different.
marino couldn't win a super bowl
and steve young has the highest qb rating of all-time and took joe montanas job.

favre has the records

8 consecutive pro bowls would of been nine but he turned one down

Nfls only three time Mvp consecutive.

10 wins away from being the nfls winingest Qb

ranks second in league's four major categories: touchdowns (396), completions (4,678), attempts (7,610) and yards (53,615)

all he needs is one good year and he will be the leader in passing attempts
completions and tds.

now I'm a big brett favre fan so I'm biased towards him being number 1
but really you don't know what your talking about if you don't believe he's one of the greatest Qbs to ever play the game.


25 Halls120 : Brett Favre is undoubtedly one of the greatest QB's to ever play the game. But like Joe Montana, he apparently doesn't know when to hang it up. He's
26 AAden : farve wants to play until he's 40 he's got time.
27 Wukka : He's got a loooong couple of seasons ahead of him to hit that number. He was well over the cusp to retire last season, and said as much to the press.
28 AAden : whered did you get that information??
29 MKEdude : Wow!! You need better information. Seriously click on a TV or check the net occasionally. The Amish knew more about his status. It's become an annual
30 Flynlr : this post missed the most important fact .. the bengals are a good team for once.
31 Slider : No question. WAS one of the greatest. That time is over, as evidenced by his stats, trends or performance and obvious deterioration. If you want to s
32 AAden : it's not just him. No Qb not even payton manning can carry a team all on his own. It's pretty hard to win games without a running game or good wide re
33 Wukka : Ummm... Pretty much every media outlet that has a sports section. If I recall correctly, they even mentioned this during the game in question. Did yo
34 AAden : lets bet on it
35 Post contains images Checkraiser : - except this is different. Most Packer fans have this odd sort of personal love for BF. These fanatic Packer fans have tossed the First Commandment
36 AAden : plus the town owns the team. they're would be a mob forming at the doors of the staduim before brett even got out the door. not lord he's brett almig
37 USAFHummer : IMO, something ya'll gotta remember is that this is just the preseason...nothing counts here!!! If he plays like that in Week 1, and Week 2, and Week
38 Post contains images Checkraiser : Favre isn't the only thing plaguing this organization. I think the Pack's downfall started with Ron Wolf. When Mike Holmgren wanted the GM spot Wolf w
39 AsstChiefMark : I have tickets for this Sunday's game in Green Bay against the Titans. Section 110, Row 16, Seats 1 & 2. Maybe I'll take my nephew. But two tanks of g
40 AAden : Hey you watch september 10th thats all i ask watch fox football he's still got it
41 Aerobalance : The Thumb Episode? Or will it be Turf Toe this time.....
42 Wukka : You name it.
43 Slider : Yup- many of them are blinded to reality because they still want to see the Favre of the MVP form and cling to the idea that "with the gunslinger, yo
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