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Lawyers, Need Your Help, Public Domain Rights  
User currently offlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2349 posts, RR: 14
Posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2048 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Hi one and all

I'm in the following situation: From several sources I gathered around 4 boxes full of PanAm commercial material, mostly 16mm & 32mm film reels containg 1 minute ads for cinema or TV use. Wonderful footage of the first B747 in service, plenty of those all so famous "PanAm makes the going great" cartoon commercials and hours and hours more of PanAm movies from around the golden 1960s era of jet aviaton!

Now, my question is, who helds the rights on this material? My aim is to publish a commercial 3 DVD bundle with all these films, as I think thre are plenty of PanAm and 1960s era aviation enthusiasts out there who would be interested in such DVDs. I allready have 3 films from other sources that are licensed "public domain", so there should be no problem here.

However what is the situation on my other movies? Can it be entitled as "public domain" as well? As said before, they are mostly 1960s/1970s 60 second commercials from PanAm so the owner of the rights is either the advertising ageny or PanAm, but as PanAm went bankrupt it depends on wether the rights on the ads went on to the company that bought the PanAm logo rights, right?

So, is there a general law saying that certain films with a specific age from a bankrupt company are "public domain" and may be freely used or how should I work my way through this?

Thanks a lot & best regards.

Mario
LH526


Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting LH526 (Thread starter):
Now, my question is, who helds the rights on this material?

This is a question that gets asked a lot.

Quoting LH526 (Thread starter):
I allready have 3 films from other sources that are licensed "public domain", so there should be no problem here.

Double check that the copyright holder has placed them in public domain, its trivially easy for SOMEONE to label them as public domain, but you are still liable if they have been falsly labelled.

Quoting LH526 (Thread starter):
However what is the situation on my other movies? Can it be entitled as "public domain" as well? As said before, they are mostly 1960s/1970s 60 second commercials from PanAm so the owner of the rights is either the advertising ageny or PanAm, but as PanAm went bankrupt it depends on wether the rights on the ads went on to the company that bought the PanAm logo rights, right?

So, is there a general law saying that certain films with a specific age from a bankrupt company are "public domain" and may be freely used or how should I work my way through this?

Copyright law. Nothing other than a natural expiration of copyright protection, the copyright owner putting the items into public domain, or a judge putting the items into public domain can ever actually remove the copyright protections from the items. And thats 95 years from first publication for a corporation (or 120 years from creation if never published).

Copyrighted items are as much 'assets' as anything else in a bankrupt business, and SOMEONE will have got them, even if it was as part of a package deal with a tonne of other more important stuff. They would never simply be dropped.

Your best bet is to start trawling the bankruptcy proceedings for Pan Am and see what went where. Someone will own them even if they never realised it.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5610 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
And thats 95 years from first publication for a corporation (or 120 years from creation if never published).

This depends on juristriction. Its 50 years for a corporation in Oz.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 2):

This depends on juristriction. Its 50 years for a corporation in Oz.

Actually when you entered the Free Trade Agreement in 2005, you automatically came into line with the US durations.

Prior to 2005, it was life plus 50, after the signing it was life plus 70 for works published after 1954, applicable retroactively.

Sucks doesnt it?


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5610 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 3):
Actually when you entered the Free Trade Agreement in 2005, you automatically came into line with the US durations.

Automatically? NO. A change to the local act is required to implement it. I was under the impression that said change had NOT made it thru the last session, and was under severe pressure from a number of quarters to prevent passage. I could be wrong about this, as I said just an impression. Also the Oz academic guide to copyright has not been amended, so I doubt its in force, yet.

The plan may be to delay as much of the implementing legislation until after the next election, course if there is a change of government it is expected that that treaty will be abrogated. (There is a rumour that the ALP told the US of this before the treaty was signed).

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1966 times:

My guess would be that Guilford Transportation has the rights to the Pan Am copyrights since they hold the title to the Pan Am corporate logo and name (trademarks). Copyrights and trademarks of companies that are merged into other corporations are generally transferred to the successor company while rights and trademarks sold in bankruptcy proceedings go to the purchasing party. I did a publication on the railroad history of Chattanooga, Tennessee and had advertising material that I wanted to use that was put out by the Southern Railway. I got in contact with the appropriate party at Norfolk Southern Railway's corporate headquarters and got permission for my one time use without any problem. They requested that I send a list of the items in discussion, which I did. In the end, all they required was two copies for their corporate history department and a line following the caption for each of the items involved "Reproduced with the permission of Norfolk Southern Corporation." My understanding from other rail historians is that Guilford is one of the more difficult transportation corporations to deal with.


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 4):
Automatically? NO. A change to the local act is required to implement it. I was under the impression that said change had NOT made it thru the last session, and was under severe pressure from a number of quarters to prevent passage. I could be wrong about this, as I said just an impression. Also the Oz academic guide to copyright has not been amended, so I doubt its in force, yet.

The change made it though in 2004, under the FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT 2004 SCHEDULE 9, where it directly amends current law, and the new durations came into force on anything still under copyright on 1st January 2005.

Take a look at the following Australian Copyright Information sheet - http://www.copyright.org.au/information/G023.pdf


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5610 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1962 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 6):
The change made it though in 2004, under the FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IMPLEMENTATION ACT 2004 SCHEDULE 9, where it directly amends current law, and the new durations came into force on anything still under copyright on 1st January 2005.

Thanks Richard! Wonder why I havent seen it in the guide?

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
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