AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2628 times:
It's hard for many people to identify a political hero, these days.
Some people mention Mohandas Gandhi. Others mention Anwar Sadat.
There are eight statesmen I currently believe are worthy of emulation. In chronological order, they are: George Washington, for his pivotal roles in the birth of our nation; Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, for their brilliance in setting forth the Constitutional framework and their early leadership of this country; Abraham Lincoln, for his stewardship of the nation during the Civil War; FDR and Winston Churchill, for defeating Nazism; Dwight D. Eisenhower, for his military prowess and steady stewardship in postwar America; and Ronald Reagan, for reinstilling popular faith in America and closing down the Soviet threat.
Currently under evaluation in my book are Harry Truman, for his common-sense approach to the Presidency; JFK, for his leadership of space exploration and worthy struggle against Communism; and President George Walker Bush, for his tireless efforts in the war against terrorism and his commitment to Project Constellation.
Also worthy of emulation, despite the fact that they are not statesmen, are the following individuals of recent historical memory: Earl Warren, for the civil rights rights decisions under his watch on the Supreme Court; Learned Hand, for his deep and practical legal knowledge; Sun Yat-Sen, for his overthrow of a corrupt imperial regime in China; Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking, for their scientific brilliance; John von Neumann, for his mathematical genius; and Elie Wiesel, for his profound thoughts on modern man.
Currently under evaluation in this respect are Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Antonin Scalia.
The foregoing list excludes such older historical figures such as Aristotle and Kant, for example, both of whose work I believe stand as monumental intellectual achievements, and Patrick Henry, whose patriotism must continue to inspire for generations to come.
Who are your political heroes? Who are other kinds of heroes you may have?
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8773 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2591 times:
people who do more than they can to help others, like the soldier in the following example from another forum:
Quote: When your husband has just gotten back from Iraq, having been blown up by an IED and suffering > 80% TBSA burns, it is not benefical to wait until he has woken up from his pharmacologically induced coma, been extubated, and come to grips with his injuries to tell him that he's too ugly to deserve her, and that he should never have bothered crawling out of the building that was shelled. Do this when your husband's CSM is visiting to personally present the soldier with a Purple Heart for his injuries, and Silver Star for going back in THREE TIMES to pull out his battle-buddies.
On a sidenote, the woman must also be some kind of hero if she managed to survive the subsequent ass-whopping; just not the hero you'd want to be.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2576 times:
Heroism is one of those concepts that is difficult to deal with. I think we all tend to assign the label too easily.
While my Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary defines "hero as: a) "a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability, b) an illustrious warrior, c) a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities, d) one that shows great courage," IÕve never been quite sure that is all there is when deciding to bestow hero status on someone. Moreover, the emphasis on physical accomplishment places acts that donÕt involve physical force on a second tier, and IÕm not sure thatÕs fair.
One definition IÕve found that is appealing is from Dr. Andrew Bernstein: Ò[Heroes] hold rational, i.e., life-promoting values--and in the attempt to create and/or defend these values, they are willing to expend all their energy, engage in any struggle, take on every foe. The hero is one who holds rational values and fights for them, if necessary, against every conceivable form of opposition. Heroism is a moral concept. By its nature it is reserved for the man set apart--for the select few who tower above the rest. It is a sparsely populated classification. To attain this status one must reach the zenith of human morality--an undeviating commitment to rational values, in action, in the teeth of opposition that would dismay a lesser man. A hero has faced it all: he need not be undefeated, but he must be undaunted.Ó
That said, when it comes to people IÕd consider for ÒheroÓ status, two people that come to mind during my lifetime are Master Sergeant Gary Gordon and Sergeant First Class Randy Shugart.
Quote: REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT PRESENTATION OF MEDAL OF HONOR
POSTHUMOUSLY TO MASTER SERGEANT GARY GORDON
AND SERGEANT FIRST CLASS RANDALL SHUGHART
May 23, 1994 The East Room 11:07 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: To the distinguished leaders of the military and the Congress who are here; family and friends of the two men on whom we will confer the nation's highest military award, the Medal of Honor: Master Sergeant Gary Gordon and Sergeant First Class Randall Shughart were real American heroes.
During a military operation on October 3rd, two American helicopters were downed by hostile fire. Although United States Army Rangers established a defensive perimeter around the first downed helicopter, they could not reach the second one quickly by land. In the wreckage of this helicopter lay four injured Army crewmen.
Another helicopter with Sergeants Gordon and Shughart on board was dispatched to provide cover from above. But they came under withering fire, and the two sergeants instinctively understood that if the downed crew was to stand a chance of survival someone would have to get them on the ground.
Immediately Sergeants Gordon and Shughart volunteered to go. They were told, no, it's too dangerous. They volunteered again. Again, they were told no. They volunteered a third time, and permission finally was granted.
Sergeants Gordon and Shughart knew their own chances of survival were extremely bleak. The pilot of their helicopter said that anyone in their right mind would never have gone in. But they insisted on it because they were comrades in danger, because they believed passionately in the creed that says, "I will not fail those with whom I serve." And so they asked their pilot to hover just above the ground, and they jumped into the ferocious firefight.
The citations that will be read shortly describe the extraordinary courage that Sergeants Gordon and Shughart demonstrated in the battle that followed. Gary Gordon and Randall Shughart died in the most courageous and selfless way any human being can act. They risked their lives without hesitation. They gave their lives to save others. Their actions were clearly above and beyond the call of duty.
Both were men whose dreams and generous hearts we can never adequately portray. Both were quiet men whose steadiness gave strength to all who knew them. Both would probably feel a bit uncomfortable about being the center of so much attention. We were just doing our job, they would probably say -- a job they loved and a job they had plainly mastered.
Of course, there is little we can do to ease the pain, the sense of loss that their loved ones feel. We know they will live in the memories of those whose lives they touched. We pray that their families will find strength in their faiths during this time and in the times to come. But we can also draw comfort from the words of the pilot they saved, Chief Warrant Officer Michael Durant. "Without a doubt," he says, "I owe my life to these two men and their bravery."
Sergeants Gordon and Shughart died on October 3rd for a noble and important cause, to give Durant and others a chance to live. They were part of a larger mission -- a difficult one -- that saved hundreds of thousands of innocent Somalis from starvation, and gave that nation a chance to build its own future.
On the wall of the Special Forces Memorial Court at Ft. Bragg, the words of the prophet Isaiah are etched in stone: "I heard the voice of the Lord saying, 'Whom shall I send and who will go for us?'" Master Sergeant Gary Gordon and Sergeant First Class Randall Shughart answered that call. Today, we inscribe their lives and their deeds in the distinguished and valorous history of this country's men and women in uniform. We pray that God will embrace their souls. Any may their service and sacrifice inspired generations to come. (The Medal of Honor is presented to the families.)
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2529 times:
Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6): I think you may have just completely over-stated "Reagan's role" in the fall of the Soviet Union. He was popular because he was charasmatic and lowered taxes.
I would disagree. For example, in view of our defense build-up, the Soviets were forced to respond. Their economy was grossly inadequate for this purpose, which led inevitably to the demise of their system.
I am so impressed to see that you are familiar with this very great and knowledgeable Judge. There is no one today, I fear, who comes close to matching Learned Hand. On May 21, 1944, he made a brief speech in Central Park, New York, at an "I Am An American Day" ceremony. This text was so popular and the impact was so great that it was quickly printed and reprinted. I copied this text from the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers web site, www.criminaljustice (dot) org:
“We have gathered here to affirm a faith, a faith in a common purpose, a common conviction, a common devotion. Some of us have chosen America as the land of our adoption; the rest have come from those who did the same. For this reason we have some right to consider ourselves a picked group, a group of those who had the courage to break from the past and brave the dangers and the loneliness of a strange land. What was the object that nerved us, or those who went before us, to this choice? We sought liberty; freedom from oppression, freedom from want, freedom to be ourselves. This we then sought; this we now believe that we are by way of winning. What do we mean when we say that first of all we seek liberty? I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it. And what is this liberty which must lie in the hearts of men and women? It is not the ruthless, the unbridled will; it is not freedom to do as one likes. That is the denial of liberty, and leads straight to its overthrow. A society in which men recognize no check upon their freedom soon becomes a society where freedom is the possession of only a savage few; as we have learned to our sorrow.
"What then is the spirit of liberty? I cannot define it; I can only tell you my own faith. The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right; the spirit of liberty is the spirit which seeks to understand the mind of other men and women; the spirit of liberty is the spirit which weighs their interests alongside its own without bias; the spirit of liberty remembers that not even a sparrow falls to earth unheeded; the spirit of liberty is the spirit of Him who, near two thousand years ago, taught mankind that lesson it has never learned but never quite forgotten; that there may be a kingdom where the least shall be heard and considered side by side with the greatest. And now in that spirit, that spirit of an America which has never been, and which may never be; nay, which never will be except as the conscience and courage of Americans create it; yet in the spirit of that America which lies hidden in some form in the aspirations of us all; in the spirit of that America for which our young men are at this moment fighting and dying; in that spirit of liberty and of America I ask you to rise and with me pledge our faith in the glorious destiny of our beloved country.”
Those who want to do something will find a way; those who don't will find an excuse.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2510 times:
AzoresLover, I'm happy to see that I'm not alone here in admiring this great man. He was clearly a cut above even most of his peers.
It's a credit to our Republic that profound, decent, and knowledgeable people like him can ascend to the heights of our judiciary, and even though Judge Hand never became a Supreme Court justice, I think that most would agree that his thoughts put him above most of even them.
I have great respect for many in our judiciary, as one may gather from my listing of former Chief Justice Earl Warren and Chief Justice John Roberts. I think that the law can be an instrument for great societal good as well as for justice. And I think that Justice Scalia's formulation of the law is also worthy of consideration on its own terms.
The law must be an instrument, as well, of reason and science, though above all, it is beholden to justice, to our Constitution, and to the highest precepts of ethics. It is never to give any quarter to prejudice or mere personal predilection. When I think of law and science, I think of Clarence Darrow and the famous Scopes trial. Darrow's work is one reason I react so vehemently against the so-called "creation science" that some right-wing zealots desire to impose upon science and academia.
Thank you for posting a most information and welcome message, AzoresLover! It is very much appreciated.
Greasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3087 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2503 times:
The message you were about to post is too short and probably not of any higher value to the topic at hand. You should think long and hard before posting a message in this forum and make it detailed and a valuable addition to the topic discussed.
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
Soyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2499 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 7): I would disagree. For example, in view of our defense build-up, the Soviets were forced to respond. Their economy was grossly inadequate for this purpose, which led inevitably to the demise of their system.
Reagan had diddly to do with the collapse of the USSR. The example you just provided proves this. Sure, the Americans beefed up their military, and instigated the now infamous Star Wars program. If the Soviets were in the least bit threatened by these programs, they would have responded in kind. But Gorbachev commented many times on the record (people tend to deliberately omit this in their false hero worship of Reagan) that he knew the Star Wars program was a farce, and if the Americans wanted to waste money pursuing it, let them. Another fact that people also deliberately omit is that the USSR was a command economy, they could have easily met any military buildup by the USSR in kind. But they didn't.
The break up of the USSR was an entirely internal matter. It had nothing to do with the Americans, Wales and Solidarnosc, Havel, etc. The only major external influence was the war in Afghanistan which the USSR was bogged down in.
It's also funny AerospaceFan that you list FDR and Churchill for defeating Nazism. FDR and Churchill did not defeat Nazism. You again have left out a pertinent point. If it weren't for the Soviets bogging down the Germans in the Volgas, it is quite likely that the war in Europe could have gone on for many more years. Whilst not discounting the impact that the Americans and British (and many others) had in getting rid of the Nazi regime in Europe, it would probably be more accurate to say that the major contributor in reaching this goal wasn't FDR or Churchill, or even Stalin, but the Soviet people - after the Soviets forces the Germans out of the USSR it was mostly downhill from there for the Nazis.
Greasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3087 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2478 times:
I respect Trudeau becasue he was a leader un affraid to make a decision. But I would not call him a hero. He did some good things for the country but was also very arrognat.
Note: I grew up in the west and my Dad was impacted by Trudeau's National Energy Program.
With Terry Fox i am old enough(ok I was 10 at the time) to remember this crazy 1 legged guy saying he was going to run accross the ocuntry. I also remember him abandoning it. When i moved her in 1999 i stopped at the monument to him in Thunderbay (where he abandoned).
ard to think that years later his runs have raised almost 400 million dollars for cancer research and the runs take place in 60 countries.
I would also say our Unknown soldier is a hero. No one knows anything about him other than he was killed in the first world war. but he is there to represent everyone past and present. That is quite a burden for a youg guy and to place that upon him he must be a hero.
As my sister is in the military this means more for me now.
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2475 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 9): I have great respect for many in our judiciary, as one may gather from my listing of former Chief Justice Earl Warren and Chief Justice John Roberts
I wondering how someone could place Earl Warren and John Roberts in the same sentence. Roberts has been Chief Justice for less than a year, therefore no track record of any sort. Now Earl Warren was either a love or hate him type of judge.
Majority of Americans benefited in some way by the decisions of his court.
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5): Heroism is one of those concepts that is difficult to deal with. I think we all tend to assign the label too easily.
American society uses the word Hero too liberally. My feeling heros are the ones that put their lifes on the line for each of us, quite frankly in my world jocks, policitians, business leaders do not quailify.
Braybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5816 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2466 times:
Former President Mary Robinson, for her challenging the traditional Catholic ethos of this country, and reinvigorating the presidency from the retirement home for superannuated politicians which it had become.
Michael Collins, for negotiating the Anglo Irish Treaty of 1921 and paying the ultimate price for his courage.
Former Taoiseach Garret FitzGerald, who unfashionably promoted financial rectitude at a time of rampant spending, which almost bankrupted this country.
Daniel O'Connell, for having the courage to successfully promote a non-violent form of revolution, something which was sadly missing in this country after his death in 1847.
Former US President Bill Clinton for his tireless and dedicated work in banging heads together on the peace process in Northern Ireland, which culminated in the Belfast Friday Agreement of 1998, which in turn led to the peace in the province for the first time since 1968.
Former South African President Nelson Mandela, for his policy of reconciliation after 27 years in prison and his work in the ultimate dismantling of the apartheid regime in that country.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2465 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 15): I wondering how someone could place Earl Warren and John Roberts in the same sentence. Roberts has been Chief Justice for less than a year, therefore no track record of any sort. Now Earl Warren was either a love or hate him type of judge.
I'm still evaluating Chief Justice Roberts, as I noted in my originating message. However, I'm very impressed by his judicial demeanor and his performance at his Congressional confirmation hearings, and I have very high hopes for him based on the way he has brought the Court together. I also believe that he is one of the smartest men on the bench today. Further, I have no reason to question his judicial performance as a matter of history.
Someone of his stature, who exhibits such apparently sterling behavior and has been confirmed to such a high post, is a good candidate for judicial role model, and this is why I mentioned him in my post.
Flyingbabydoc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2412 times:
I focus a bit more on people that were NOT politicians but actually have done wonders for mankind (ok, I am a bit biased - but I have to stand for my career (vocation - profession):
Abu Ali al-Husain ibn Sina-e Balkhi (Avicenna): he laid the foundations of modern medicine, described correctly so many diseases and their diagnosis and even the treatment. And all that in Persia on the 10th century. His Canons are masterpieces of medical literature.
Florence Nightingale: left a comfortable life in England to assist the war relief effort in the Crimea. Modern nurses still benefit from her teachings and role model.
Joseph Lister: the introduction of antisepsis and assepsy in modern medicine and the concept of nosocomial infection saved countless lives
Sigmund Freud: like him or not, believe him or not, he introduced the completely new idea of a non-organic mental disease.
Alexander Fleming: accident or not, antibiotics are a reality thanks to him. How many A.netters would have died as children if they had not received antibiotics?
Edward Jenner: ridiculed by his fellow countrymen, we owe him the success of vaccination in the prevention of so many diseases, and the eradication of small pox.
Marie Curie: At the cost of her own life, she turned radiation into a tangible science, reflected nowadays in the diagnosis and treatment of diseases such as cancer.
The list is enormous. However, I feel that one should remember these people, who are almost unknown to the general population, but who have done so much for humanity, instead of a few raunchy politicians who usually have done so much for themselves only.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9755 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2369 times:
Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6): I think you may have just completely over-stated "Reagan's role" in the fall of the Soviet Union.
It wasn't Reagan alone, the ultimate credit for that must go to Pope John Paul II, Lech Walesa played a major role because he used, with his charisma, the window of opportunity the Pope opened up. Reagan however, was the only person who had the real power to accomplish what was started. Without Reagan's ulimate message in Berlin to "tear down that wall" and making it clear to Russia that the twin-track decision was a reality, Gorbachev would not have opened up his empire.
It was kind of a team play between very few persons who happened to be on the scene together at the right time and the credit for the fall of communism definately goes to Pope John Paul II, Ronald Reagan and Lech Walesa. To a lesser extend also to Helmut Schmidt, former German Chancellor, who rather stepped down over the twin track decision, which his party did not back, making way to Helmut Kohl who pushed the matter through, together with Reagan and ensuring Gorbachev that Russia had not to fear military intervention from the West.
This is a bit short cut, there may be more people to mention, GWB I just to mention one.
Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
Slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2352 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter): In chronological order, they are: George Washington, for his pivotal roles in the birth of our nation; Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, for their brilliance in setting forth the Constitutional framework and their early leadership of this country;
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2345 times:
- Washington .. led us to freedom and insured it with his inaugural address
- Lincoln .. Led us through the darkest hours and forced final freedom on us.
- Churchill .. Led the forces that preserved democracy while we waited.
- King .. Led us into lasting social change overcoming injustice, the hard way.
- Ghandi .. Led his people to lasting social change, and democracy, and paid.
- Shakespeare .. Master of the language, Universal writer for the ages.
- Reagan .. Led us back to economic prosperity and won the cold war.
- Galileo .. Sought new knowledge in the face of tyranny of wilful ignorance.
- MacArthur .. Set up and defended democracy in Japan. Other stuff, too.
- Bolivar .. Led oppressed people to freedom, all over a continent.
- Hammurabi .. Believed strongly enough in justice to codify it for the ages.
- H.G. Wells and Jules Verne .. Fantasists and futurists who amaze me still.
- Leonidas .. Defended the first democracy to the death (even though he was a King), and for long enough that the Athenians evacuated their navy to avoid it's destruction and meet Xerxes at Salamis. Reason we're not speaking Persian now.
- Audie Murphy/Alvin C. York/and every other valorous soldier/sailor/airman/coastguardsman who placed his or her own personal well being subordinate to the needs of his country and fellow serviceman.
- Raymond Levy .. Protected his family during the Holocaust, fought for freedom, taught his daughter to fight and to live, lived large.
There are others, but for the works of the people I mentioned, and others like them, the work of Curie/Long/Voltaire/Jarvik and countless others would have either been impossible or wasted.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2325 times:
Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 23): Bachir Gemayel, President-elect of Lebanon and assassinated by the Syrians just before taking office. If only he had become President, Lebanon would have been a different place.
RIP Sheikh Bachir...
his assassination was a real and definite tragedy. It indeed was devastating news right then.
25 ME AVN FAN
: people on top of my views : Houari Boumediene, the great man of independent Algeria, and AbdelAziz Bouteflika, the best leader Algeria ever had Gamal
: Interesting one - I haven't heard of terrorism in Algeria for ages.
27 ME AVN FAN
: the reason why you have not heard of terrorism in Algeria IS Abdel-Aziz Bouteflika, the man who is able to combine a very strict anti-terror policy a