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Why We Should Support Unions  
User currently offlineCO767FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 532 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Many here think the union's are a waste of time and while at times I agree, it is articles like this that underscore the importance of keeping unions around. Airline employees for the legacy carriers (and some LCC) are examples of how worker productivity has grown, but the rate of pay/benefits hasn't kept pace.

Workers lose traction over the past 10 years

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

You're not telling me anything I don't already know..Almost everyone I am friends with even the ones outside of aviation are making essentially what they did in the mid to late 1980's yet all the economists keep saying how great this economy is and the job growth. What they don't tell you is a lot of those jobs are part time or low paying. All the high paying jobs are disappearing along with benefits. To the economists..low unemployment you say? They gauge unemployment by who is drawing unemployment benefits. There are quite a few that no longer can collect or cannot qualify that are out of work..I do believe there is a place for unions but in the airline industry they are basically powerless due to archaic rules of the RLA and the bias of the NMB.

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Productivity gains are roughly increases in $ output per unit time. Gains in productivity don't necessarily come from better workers; it often comes from investments in productivity enhancing equipment, such as IT products or automation/robotics. The worker hasn't done much to improve his/her productivity, besides perhaps training to use the equipment. Why would pay/benefits keep up with gains in productivity in that case? If it did keep up, products would be more expensive, as the labor costs per unit output would be the same while the capital costs would be higher.

The entire benefit of productivity gains for workers is in buying power improvements. Goods cost less because the total cost of capital and labor that goes into producing a unit of output is less, allowing people who might not otherwise afford the good/service to be able to purchase it.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 1):
To the economists..low unemployment you say? They gauge unemployment by who is drawing unemployment benefits.

No, it's based on who is actively seeking employment. The unemployment rate is not based on who is getting paid benefits.

Now, the weekly changes in unemployment benefit applications are tracked as well, but that's not the same as the unemployment rate. It does help give an indication of how to ADJUST the rate, however.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 2):
Gains in productivity don't necessarily come from better workers; it often comes from investments in productivity enhancing equipment, such as IT products or automation/robotics.

And unions fight against the productivity enhancing equipment tooth and nail. Why? Because it often means fewer jobs for the same work or a need for a more highly trained union work force. Neither is in the union's best interest.

The Longshoreman's Union here in California is a prime example. The main reason our ports are so insecure is due to their fighting of technology on every front, despite ridiculous pay scales for the work they do.

Unions are good when they represent the worker and protect him/her from exploitation, but when they become a hinderance to progress and fight for more than they deserve, they tend to destroy the industry rather than help the worker.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

Someone said something to me not too long ago, along the lines of that there are too many people working. It made sense, along the lines of supply and demand. 50 years ago, most of the time, only the head of household was the breadwinner. The wife stayed home and cared for the kids, etc. These days, kids are in daycare, while the wife is working. We also have immigrants who will work for basically nothing. As long as there are plenty of people looking for jobs, the employers are going to shop around for the cheapest employee. If you have few people looking, and the employer really needs someone, they are going to sweeten the pot as best they can to get who they need. The unions are looking for as many people they can to pay the dues for whatever purpose they are for. They also share a responsibility for the low wages. They are an obsolete bunch whose time has passed.

[Edited 2006-09-04 05:46:21]


Yay Pudding!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Prepared to get MAJORLY  flamed  on this one!

Having said that, I will agree with you on one point - there are good unions and there are bad unions.

I am a proud member of a union that is constantly harassed and berated - public school teaching. Anything bad that happens is automatically our fault (and not the overstuffed, ivory towered, money sucking, couldn't-hack-it-in-the-classroom-so-I'll-become-an-administrator state beauracracy!), but when test scores go up (all anyone cares about anymore - not real learning, but filling in a bubble), do teachers get a thank you? Nope. Our newspaper editorial reiterated their call for total dismantling of "the union that is slowly strangling our state", despite the fact that we gave them the scores they wanted so desperately.

It saddens me to know that in so many occupations, most unions and workers are more than willing to be partners - but are never given a chance. Almost from the most moment of arrival, the new management has to prove that they can get results - and that means turning what should be a good working relationship into an adversarial one.

I will respect everyone's opinions, including the right to loathe unions. But I would hope that when someone here badmouths ALL unions, please put yourself in someone else's shoes - something that this world seems to have lost its ability to do. Would anyone here like their profession to be the next target? To be told by others to "just shut up, accept it, work twice as hard for half as much, and forget about your benefits?"

If a union is actively set on self-destruction or has been "hijacked" by a few when they cease to recognize the will of the majority, then they should be dismantled.

If a union fights to keep the benefits they have maintained and keep their members earning a wage that one can live on, then I say "fight on, Norma Rae!"

I've ranted enough. Enjoy before this is deleted!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
Many here think the union's are a waste of time

Proud to say I'm part of this group of folks.

I was a member of the TWU for the year I was on the ramp, and my current position in operations is non-union. The difference in pay scale and benefits between the two postions? The non-union position doesn't cost me 2 hours' salary every month. I get the same benefits, same type of pay scale with raises based on seniority, same amount of paid vacation, and bidding for schedules is done in the same manner. There is no difference except the dues.

Pro-union folks will argue that worker productivity increases because of unions - that's a laugher. Unions are about providing the worker with so much protection that it takes away the competitive will to be the better worker. I also hate the phrase "right to work." Propogandical nonsense. Nobody has the right to a job - a job must be sought, earned, and continually be proven to be worthy of keeping. People have the right to be fairly considered for a job, and for the application process to be honest and on the level - but nobody has a right to the job itself.

Unions had their place when the government had no laws to protect the worker, but said laws are sufficiently in place - and the employer should be allowed the flexibility to weed out the bad employees.


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5120 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

I have become a supporter of the unions. At first I could have cared less, but now I see the importance of them. If it was up to the airlines, they would pay everyone minimum wage.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

From the article...

"The State of Working America from the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal nonprofit research group."

At least they put the liberal right there in the description so you know which way the article is headed. Liberals love workers while conservatives hate workers.   

"Between 1995 and 2005, productivity -- a measure of the quantity and quality of what workers produce per hour -- grew 33.4 percent. But hourly wages rose only 11 percent."

Where is that wonderful world of technology The Jetsons had and why with all this automation and technology am I still working so damn hard. I shouldn't complain though as my salary has drastically increased over those years.

"When it comes to benefits, pension and health coverage has fallen in the past five years."

If you rely on someone else to supply your healthcare and retirement benefits you are just asking for trouble. They are both benefits of some jobs...not a God given or Constitutional right. I am lucky that my job provides both to me but in the event that they are removed as benefits I am prepared to take care of it myself versus complaining.

Here's my problem with unions in the times I have been exposed to them. I don't like it that union members are paid based on their seniority versus their productivity and work ethic. Unions have served a place and will continue to serve a place in the business world but lesser than they once were.

I want to reward people based on their production and quality of work...not how long they have been around. If you do the first I can guarantee you that you'll be around my company for a while. If you are more concerned about your smoke break and that the 4PM quitting bell means you are turning the keys in your ignition and not clocking out I have no place for you in my company.

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 1):
To the economists..low unemployment you say? They gauge unemployment by who is drawing unemployment benefits.

Not the way I was taught. The metric was based on those out of jobs as well as those in transition between jobs.

[Edited 2006-09-04 05:54:57]

[Edited 2006-09-04 05:57:00]


"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
If it was up to the airlines, they would pay everyone minimum wage.

No one is forced to take a job at an airline that pays minimum wage. If they did pay minimum wage, they wouldn't be able to keep employees, and be competitive in todays airline industry.



Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1000 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Long live Eastern, Branif, PanAM, (Northwest?) and remember the number of 777s Delta flies.

Good job, unions!



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

From CNN;

Quote:
In terms of health insurance, coverage for all private-sector workers fell from 58.9 percent in 2000 to 55.9 percent in 2004, according to EPI's report. In 1979, by contrast, 69 percent of workers had health coverage from their employers.
Employers who do provide coverage are picking up a greater percent of the premiums than they did in 2003. However, even though the percentage of the premium that workers must pay has declined, dollar-wise they are shelling out more since premium costs have risen so steeply -- by 73 percent since 2000, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

When unions attempt to address the health-care issue all they do is find themselves beating a dead horse. Until the USA wakes up to reality and adopts universal health-care coverage, regulates the price of pharmaceuticals and restricts the activities of unscrupulous tort lawyers this will become a losing battle. Earlier this year Former Senator and Democratic Presidential candidate George McGovern had perhaps the most insightful commentary on the plight of unions and the working man and what they really need to campaign and work for in the USA. Rather than continual "ask for more" as legendary United Mine Workers leader John L. Lewis said he wanted, find a consensus with management and determine what can and will work. The USA is now at a serious disadvantage not just in the airline industry, but in all of the manufacturing sector due to out of control health care costs. Notice I'm not advocating or endorsing the USA go to state run health authorities and socialized medicine as they have north of the 49th in Canada. I'm saying unions and business leaders need to campaign for a less expensive health-care alternative than the sole employer benefit which has been the model here since the end of WWII.
From Senator McGovern's 05/22/2006 LA Times Commentary:

Quote:
General Motors and Ford -- the companies that have epitomized high-paying unionized jobs over the last several decades -- have stated that they will lay off 30,000 workers each. The United Auto Workers, General Motors and Delphi recently announced an agreement to offer voluntary buyouts to the UAW-represented employees at the companies. Wall Street thinks these are just the first steps.
It can be galling to hear companies argue that they have to cut wages and benefits for hourly workers -- even as they reward top executives with millions of dollars in stock options. The chief executive of Wal-Mart earns $27 million a year, while the company's average worker takes home only about $10 an hour. But let's assume that the chief executive got 27 cents instead of $27 million, and that Wal-Mart distributed the savings to its hourly workers. They would each receive a bonus of less than $20. It's not executive pay that has created this new world.
Maryland recently passed a law aimed at requiring Wal-Mart to spend more on health insurance. This is an extremely flawed path to healthcare reform. We need universal coverage, not piecemeal legislation designed to punish companies because they operate differently than their competitors.

As perhaps one of the most liberal, pro-labor Democratic, center-left presidetnial candidates George McGovern made it clear that in the full text of this archived commentary ($3.95 at LAtimes.com) that the airlines are going through what other blue collar industries like the auto industry have found themselves going through, and that labors old line strategy of asking for more will not fly in the face of reality.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineCO767FA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 6):
Unions had their place when the government had no laws to protect the worker, but said laws are sufficiently in place - and the employer should be allowed the flexibility to weed out the bad employees.

37 States permit employers to fire a person just because they are gay....I'm sure there are other laws that are missing from the current federal and state statutes that would protect workers.


User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
The USA is now at a serious disadvantage not just in the airline industry, but in all of the manufacturing sector due to out of control health care costs.

Equals:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
unscrupulous tort lawyers

A debate for another time, and probably going to be just as nasty as this one is going to be.

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 12):
37 States permit employers to fire a person just because they are gay....

Provided this is accurate, what kind of employer - in their right mind would do that, in the litigious society we have today. It might be an antiquated law on the books (there are plenty of them) but I doubt it is used.

[Edited 2006-09-04 06:06:48]


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User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
do teachers get a thank you? Nope. Our newspaper editorial reiterated their call for total dismantling of "the union that is slowly strangling our state", despite the fact that we gave them the scores they wanted so desperately.

That said the NEA is a classic example of a bad union gone out of control! Kind of like the aircraft mechanics at Northwest only at the state level in all 50 states.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 13):
Provided this is accurate, what kind of employer - in their right mind would do that, in the litigious society we have today. It might be an antiquated law on the books (there are plenty of them) but I doubt it is used.

More than likely ONLY when SEXUAL HARASSMENT becomes an issue. But this can work in hetero-sexual interests as well.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Unions were borne many moons ago out of the simple premise that a large enough group of workers were being treated badly by their bosses (low wages, poor conditions) and they had had enough. The organisation created was a representative body to improve pay and conditions simply by weight of numbers. Over time unions became 'professional' outfits funded by member payments whose sole purpose was to be a single entity that could negotiate a better deal on behalf of its members and apparently prevent the circumstances that prompted the creation of the unions in the first place. Over time the union has failed to represent its members on occasion and also has not adapted well to fast changing ecomomic conditions while bosses and their attitudes and objectives have essentially remained the same. Unions are still very important but they need to become more relevant and flexible in fast changing times.

User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1892 times:

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 12):
37 States permit employers to fire a person just because they are gay

And all 50 states do have a "just cause" firing law in place.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
If it was up to the airlines, they would pay everyone minimum wage.

If the airlines paid everyone minimum wage, then no one would stay with them as they would be off finding someone paying better, and the end result would be ridiculously high turnover. Just as the price of an airline ticket is what someone is willing to pay for it, an employee is worth what a company is willing to pay - if you have a good employee, it is in the best interests of the company to pay whatever is needed to keep the employee there.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
Until the USA wakes up to reality and adopts universal health-care coverage, regulates the price of pharmaceuticals and restricts the activities of unscrupulous tort lawyers this will become a losing battle.

 checkmark  Healthcare in America is so messed up, no union's petty plans will help solve the real problems with the current system.


User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

Quoting Jasond (Reply 16):
Unions were borne many moons ago out of the simple premise that a large enough group of workers were being treated badly by their bosses (low wages, poor conditions) and they had had enough.

I propose we send all of the unions to the 3rd world countries, where the lower class are busy making our designer clothes in sweat shops making 10 cents a day or whatever it is they are making.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 17):
And all 50 states do have a "just cause" firing law in place.

Too bad it isn't used as much as it should be. I'm going to point my finger again at:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 11):
unscrupulous tort lawyers

[Edited 2006-09-04 06:31:46]

[Edited 2006-09-04 06:32:27]


Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineMolykote From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1343 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1857 times:
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I don't support unions. I have held one union job in my lifetime. I am 24 years old.

My work experience has allowed me to compare the general attitudes and well being of union vs non-union workers in a variety of industries (regardless of job, profession, education, etc). I have worked in the nuclear, aviation, retail, education, and IT industries in jobs ranging from "material handler" to (aero) "propulsion engineer". As I am not at liberty to reveal any of my past or present affiliations consider the following as simply my own opinons.

My two largest and consistent objections to union behavior are below. These gripes are most applicable to union leaders or union members who have swallowed the Kool-Aid. I can't fault anyone for wanting to improve working conditions but method and execution are sorely lacking in the majority of cases I have observed personally.

- Unions often demand isolation from harsh market realities but are the first to demand increased compensation when times are good. If unions with to provide a relative level of economic stability for their members I have no problem with this being negotiated. However, a simple consequence of this insurance/hedging concept is that overall long term income will be lower than that which could have been received from a more irregular and more market based income stream. In this regard, unions want to have their cake and eat it too by ignoring economic downturns (or be dragged kicking and screaming into paycuts/givebacks) while being the first to demand higher wages at the first sign of profitability.

- I've seen unions defend immoral, unethical, and dangerous behavior of their members rather than foster excellence both within the union organization and within the realm of public visibility. These actions destroy the credibility of unions in the eyes of both the general public and the company under which they are employed.

- I've consistently seen unions breed bad attitudes within a number of job positions and industries.



Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 18):
Too bad it isn't used as much as it should be. I'm going to point my finger again at:

The Association of Trial Lawyers of America (ATLA) is another example of a big bad bully union that is out of control! Frivolous Lawsuits Now! Frivolous Lawsuits Forever!   
I just love B.S. lawsuits of any kind!   

[Edited 2006-09-04 07:05:11]


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineBillReid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter):
Many here think the union's are a waste of time and while at times I agree, it is articles like this that underscore the importance of keeping unions around. Airline employees for the legacy carriers (and some LCC) are examples of how worker productivity has grown, but the rate of pay/benefits hasn't kept pace.

Unfortunately I do not think it has anything to do with Union vs, Non-Union, its all about your/our government who is cares less about labour.
Perhaps you should write to GW Bush, I am sure he is very willing to give you a chance to work at McDonalds at $6.50/hr.



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlineLucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 14):
That said the NEA is a classic example of a bad union gone out of control! Kind of like the aircraft mechanics at Northwest only at the state level in all 50 states.

Care to expand on that?? What was so out of control at AMFA? Gee a loss of 53 percent of the membership for openers? 53 percent of approx 4500 which was down from almost 10000 at the start of the contract in 2001. Then on top of that 26 percent paycut and reduction in vacation etc for the remaining and your only choices to work were MSP or DTW so if you live somewhere else you either have to commute or move. AMFA agreed to all the pay and benefit reductions they just wanted to save the jobs to which NW would not budge on any of it. Hardly what I would call fair bargaining. What if it were YOU who had 17 yrs like I did would you vote yes on a contract that would put you out of a job? YES that's right I would even after that amount of time would have been out on the street so for me going on strike wasn't a choice NW wanted us to strike and wanted us gone plain and simple.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Quoting BillReid (Reply 21):
Unfortunately I do not think it has anything to do with Union vs, Non-Union, its all about your/our government who is cares less about labour.
Perhaps you should write to GW Bush, I am sure he is very willing to give you a chance to work at McDonalds at $6.50/hr.

The minimum wage law is starting to become increasingly a state lawmaker responsibility rather than a federal one. Perhaps given the vast differences in economic conditions depending on where someone lives in the USA, this might be a better idea. If we had a REAL Federal Minimum wage law it should be at least $9-10/per hour. The "Jobs With Justice" people will tell you that it is higher than that: http://www.jwj.org/



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

Quoting BillReid (Reply 21):
its all about your/our government who is cares less about labour.
Perhaps you should write to GW Bush,

Last time I checked, he's not the one signing my checks. As a matter of fact, my checks are a little larger due to him.

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 22):
What if it were YOU who had 17 yrs like I did would you vote yes on a contract that would put you out of a job?

I wouldn't be in a union, but if I were, I would do what I needed to do to earn money. I doubt the contract specifically said that Lucky42 was going to lose his job if he agrees to this contract. If you didn't like the terms along the line, you had every right to find somewhere else to work. Last time I checked, auto mechanics aren't exactly high payed workers, so why should an airline mechanic. They deserve a little more for the importance of the job, but they still aren't brain surgeons.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 23):
The minimum wage law is starting to become increasingly a state lawmaker responsibility rather than a federal one. Perhaps given the vast differences in economic conditions depending on where someone lives in the USA, this might be a better idea.

If you look at some of the states where the cost of living is higher, they usually do have a higher than federal minimum wage. Increasing wages, will increase costs across the board, and put people back where they started. Again, another debate for another time.

[Edited 2006-09-04 06:56:37]


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25 Max999 : I think what CO767FA meant was that 37 states DO NOT have laws which protect gay people from workplace discrimination. I don't think there is a state
26 Post contains links SLCUT2777 : Then why is it that AMFA has such a good working relationship over at WN? The national leadership of AMFA even wrote a very pro-business letter to th
27 HPLASOps : No, I meant that every state has a just cause clause in place to protect said discrimination. If someone is fired solely for being gay, I don't think
28 Go3Team : It was the way he worded his argument that led to my response. I also feel that there are no laws that say an employee can be fired just because he i
29 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Then the lawyers/paralegals and pharmaceutical industry workers will start complaining about dropping wages. I don't think universal health-care cove
30 Go3Team : I would say, that it would reduce the drug company's desire to spend the money necessary to find and bring more drugs to the market. Giving them no c
31 Lucky42 : No the contract didn't state that..53 percent of membership eliminated 4500 workers with my seniority number at 3200 do the math? They had already el
32 HPLASOps : Instead of regulating price - regulate costs. Limit the amount of money a company can spend on the marketing aspect of medicine - the perks given to
33 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Along with the Trial Lawyers this is a group of greedy profiteering bastards who don't give a rats-a$$ about the general population other than they h
34 Go3Team : I would think, that in performance based employment, a go getter with his eye on a raise because he busts his ass, would do a better job, than someon
35 Lucky42 : Yeah, my professor in college always told me what go getters those product relocation specialists were..Damn I should have listened to him.
36 Atmx2000 : Why are they marketing these drugs? In most cases because they aren't essential and they are trying to build demand. The drugs with the high marketin
37 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Sadly some accidents aren't always human error of one on the mechanic and maintenance end of everything. Look at the tragic results of numerous human
38 Go3Team : If thats the case, then you probably should have. If mocking me because you lost your job as a grease monkey makes you feel better, than go ahead, I
39 HPLASOps : But it's also true that the same companies who make the more cosmetic drugs also make the more necessary drugs - the big companies dominate the entir
40 Lucky42 : Wasn't really my intention but you seem to paint union people with a pretty broad brush. You obviously know little about what I do or how much traini
41 MattMSP767 : Unions are diseased and so are most of the people who support them. In this day in age, if one is not happy with the company in which they work for, t
42 SLCUT2777 : Sad, but very true.
43 SLCUT2777 : I doubt in my lifetime we'll ever see WN ask any of its organized unions for wage concessions. It is too well run a company to get into that mess tha
44 Go3Team : It's not my intention to bash the union worker, its the leaders of the unions I have issues with. The worker itself should be the one to make his own
45 HPLASOps : Are you expecting to die soon? I just read where the pilots' contract is up for re-nog and with those pilots being the highest paid for the aircraft
46 MattMSP767 : You must be expecting to die within the next few years. Oil has been a huge player in airlines asking for cutbacks. As I'm sure you are fully aware,
47 Atmx2000 : Not particularly relevent if the marketing costs are not more than revenue generated by the marketed drug. The only question is the drug essential or
48 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : How many times have we seen the price of oil drop like a rock? At the height of the Asian recession back in 1998-1999 how much were you paying for ga
49 SLCUT2777 : However we have seen a great deal of patent manipulation lately, where a company merely repackages one for another and thus continues the patent for
50 Post contains images Nonfirm : Remember that when you position gets eliminated and because you are not in the union and have no real seniority you are not working.
51 HPLASOps : I'm not concerned about getting laid off because I bust my ass off for this company in the hopes that I will get rewarded in the future. I have no re
52 SLCUT2777 : Yes, over the last couple of years or so we've seen it go into the uncharted waters of $60-75 per barrel and over $3.00/per US gallon at the pump (ne
53 Post contains images Nonfirm : It sounds like you think everyone in the union is lazy and tries to dodge work that is not the case there are a few bad apples everywhere.But it does
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