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Free Guns For Fire Victims  
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/8166332p-8058999c.html

For those folks who like to bash the NRA and similar groups, have a look at this article. It concerns the Alaskan village of Hooper Bay, located on the Bering Sea where about a month ago much of the small village was destroyed in a devastating fire. Thier grocery store, both schools the teacher housing and 15 or so family homes.
This being rural Alaska and subsistence activities critical to life the "Friends of the NRA", Safari club and other hunting groups have donated a shotgun and rifle each along with camping gear so families effected by the fire can still go hunting and gathering.
Your thoughts on this? Is it alright for guns to be handed out like this? Are these groups as bad as some make them out to be?

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

I'm no fan of the NRA, and I predict this thread will rapidly disintegrate into the same old right wing gun nut/left wing pinko commie shouting fest it always does, so I'll get my post in early. In this case, there could have been no more appropriate action than giving these people the tools they need to continue their lives. I'm guess that that housing is being addressed through other sources, so now they have the tools to feed themselves. Shelter and food, the two most basic needs of man.


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8764 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 1):
I predict this thread will rapidly disintegrate into the same old right wing gun nut/left wing pinko commie shouting fest it always does

Your crystal ball is amazing.  scratchchin 

In most cases, donating weapons to fire victims would be senseless, if not insulting. They'd need other things more than guns.

However, even I would probably want to own a gun in rural Alaska. I've never been there, but regardless of that, wildlife can be as dangerous as it can be amazing. In this case, it's also a source of food that wouldn't really be available without guns - bow and arrow are a bit old school - so the donations:

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
"Friends of the NRA", Safari club and other hunting groups have donated a shotgun and rifle each along with camping gear

apparently do what they're supposed to do: help people. Fine action by the donators.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

Guns dont kill people, the laws of physics kill people.

I think this is a very apt move, members of a group donating the resources they can - it would be pointless for members of the NRA to donate plumbers, lumberjacks etc for housing.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1898 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
However, even I would probably want to own a gun in rural Alaska. I've never been there, but regardless of that, wildlife can be as dangerous as it can be amazing.

While a valid reason on its own, it goes far beyond self-protection. As Bushpilot noted, most of these people are subsistance hunters, which means a good portion of their diet is dependent on what they themselves catch. Providing them guns would be similar to replacing stolen tools to a carpentar, its what they need to be able to provide for themselves and their families.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8764 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 4):
While a valid reason on its own, it goes far beyond self-protection.

Err... yes, I do agree with that...  Wink

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
In this case, it's also a source of food that wouldn't really be available without guns



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 4):
While a valid reason on its own, it goes far beyond self-protection.

Good point, although it is wise to carry a weapon in the woods and tundra of AK, it is more fo hunting than protection. That being said, the local cops in my town shot a bear monday night after it was catching spawning salmon in a creek and eating them in the middle of our bike path.
The real need for these folks is those tools lost in the fire. It devastated half the village, bunches of houses, but also huge amounts of the infastructure, there has been a great outpouring of charity for the residents of Hooper Bay from all over Alaska. Plus right now is such a critical time of the year for subsistence. The salmon run is dropping off quickly, moose hunting season closes in a week, the berries will sour soon as well. As a resident of rural Alaska I can testify that it will be a long hungry winter if your fish burned up, you cant hunt, and you have no place to freeze berries.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1885 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 6):
s a resident of rural Alaska I can testify that it will be a long hungry winter if your fish burned up, you cant hunt, and you have no place to freeze berries.

I'd totally forgotten about stores that had already been put and and were lost. I'm guessing these folks will need support all through the winter.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 5):

Err... yes, I do agree with that... Wink

Ok, ya got me, I was reading too fast. Big grin



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1844 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 6):
The real need for these folks is those tools lost in the fire.

That is exactly what these weapons are....Tools.

Everybody needs to remember that this is a remote village, several hundred miles from the road system.

You either hunt, or you pay 39 cents per pound to have your relatives mail in grocieries.

I hope everybody keeps that persepective in mind when they comment on this thread.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1837 times:

Here's a little perspective:

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Hooper+Bay,+AK

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Hooper+Bay,+AK

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Hooper+Bay,+AK


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1835 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 1):
In this case, there could have been no more appropriate action than giving these people the tools they need to continue their lives. I'm guess that that housing is being addressed through other sources, so now they have the tools to feed themselves. Shelter and food, the two

I will second this, hopefully this was in good faith by the NRA and not to be used for a massive PR effort.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1827 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
In most cases, donating weapons to fire victims would be senseless, if not insulting. They'd need other things more than guns.

However, even I would probably want to own a gun in rural Alaska. I've never been there, but regardless of that, wildlife can be as dangerous as it can be amazing. In this case, it's also a source of food that wouldn't really be available without guns - bow and arrow are a bit old school - so the donations apparently do what they're supposed to do: help people. Fine action by the donators.

 checkmark  In many parts of the country this would be a stupid action on the part of the NRA. Not in rural Alaska.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1826 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 10):
hopefully this was in good faith by the NRA and not to be used for a massive PR effort.

Although I am a resident of rural Alaska and have given a fair amount of money locally for the relief efforts up in Hooper Bay, I am a gun owner and practice subsistence vigilantly I dont want to see the NRA do this for thier own benefit, and such. Though as much as the folks up there need it, I think they would rather not be exploited over it, it is a difficult enough time already for them. I know some real ultra christian groups showed up with freezers to store food, which is fine and dandy, but that money comes from donations and these "christian" groups often take half or more for thier "administrative" duties. So Falwell can drive a caddy, fly first class and such.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1823 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 12):
dont want to see the NRA do this for thier own benefit, and such.

Do you actually think that anybody but the Daily Worker or the NRA's own Rifleman magazine is going to pick up this story, much less play it in a positive light?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1819 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Do you actually think that anybody but the Daily Worker or the NRA's own Rifleman magazine is going to pick up this story

You would be surpised. Story like this could very well end up in the New York/Los Angeles Times. Expect it will appear in the Seattle Times tomorrow or over the weekend.


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Your thoughts on this? Is it alright for guns to be handed out like this?

Good idea and yes it is alright to hand out guns. Especially in a village like this. That kind of remoteness. It’s not like the inhabitants are going to go around capping each other.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):

Thank you for the link. Was headed there to find out exactly how remote this village is.

BTW - Hooper is that remote? Off the road system? Any air service?


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Do you actually think that anybody but the Daily Worker or the NRA's own Rifleman magazine is going to pick up this story, much less play it in a positive light?

I expect the motives of the local folks were pure, after all, this is what Alaskans do when there is a tragedy. But this is exactly the type of propoganda the national org needs right now. A way to show guns as not only a right, but a necessity, and they (usurping the local chapter's role) as the good guys that ensure Americans have them. I know that sounds cynical, but there are few organizations that are as politically and PR savvy as the NRA

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 15):
BTW - Hooper is that remote? Off the road system? Any air service?

Almost every Alaska village has some sort of air service, even if its air-taxi, but conversly, 95% or more have no road service. Hooper Bay may get a couple of barges in the summer as well.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 15):
BTW - Hooper is that remote? Off the road system? Any air service?

I can't remember if we took our metro's into there or not... but it is on the Bering Sea coast so that would make it about an hour and forty five minutes flight time from Anchorage and the road system.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6166 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1740 times:
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You can never have too many guns. If a government doesn't trust people with guns there must be something wrong with that government. Before you try to argue I am one of those right wing, FFL holding gun nuts. I will never change my mind... NRA life member.

Not everywhere is the same. Some places a gun is needed more than others. If I was out in the woods I would want my fishing pole, my 30-06 deer rifle, my axe, matches, and a sharp knife. With that stuff I could get by just fine.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1733 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 18):
Some places a gun is needed more than others. If I was out in the woods

What would you want in a big city with high crime?



Speaking of which, when my brother-in-law my a cop in Houston, he carried 3 (yes, count 'em, THREE) firearms while on duty. Thankfully, he never had to discharge them while at work.

Anyone have crime states for Hooper handy?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 19):
Anyone have crime states for Hooper handy?

Off hand no....but if I remember correctly Hooper Bay is the only city in the United States where the city cops are prohibited from packing.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1687 times:

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 19):
Anyone have crime states for Hooper handy?

I dont have any hard stats, but I am pretty sure Hooper Bay is a dry village meaning no alcohol is allowed. But they have high rates of alcohol related crimes, domestic violence, sexual assault, etc. Being a village of 1100 people doesnt mean someone is raped every day or anything, but the numbers are ugly when compared to larger cities as in X crime per 100,000 people.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
but if I remember correctly Hooper Bay is the only city in the United States where the city cops are prohibited from packing

I have heard this as well. There are only two officers IIRC, At the same time, many rural Alaskan villages only rely on a single VPSO Village Public Safety Officers. They have arrest powers, but are not armed, if they need backup they have to call the state troopers from a hub location and wait until they can fly in. Sometimes with weather, it could be several days.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6166 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1679 times:
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Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 19):
What would you want in a big city with high crime?

A big gun! I have a concealed pistol license and I carry a variety of guns depending on the occasion. Some of my favorites are a Walther P-38, A Soviet Nagant revolver, and a gold ole' 1911A1 45. My everyday gun is a CZ-70. I have several others pistols too, but they are a bit too large to conceal

[Edited 2006-09-11 02:06:32]
Big version: Width: 1365 Height: 972 File size: 1117kb

This me and some of my buddies out in the woods. I am the one second from left, with the SKS.

[Edited 2006-09-11 02:21:39]


My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineBasas From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1670 times:

Quoting Bushpilot (Thread starter):
Your thoughts on this? Is it alright for guns to be handed out like this? Are these groups as bad as some make them out to be?

Sounds like a good idea to me.


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 22):
This me and some of my buddies out in the woods. I am the one second from left, with the SKS.

An unholstered Glock in a waistband?

Someone is asking to shoot off a nut.

BTW: You appear to be violating rule #2 of gun safety there.


25 Falstaff : Actually it is a Sig, but that is not me. That is my buddy Alex and oddly enough he is a cop! I have an unloaded black powder 44 in my pants, my 357
26 PWM2TXLHopper : It's kind of hard to shoot a nut off if no round has been chambered to begin with.
27 ANCFlyer : RUle #1 of Gun Safety: All guns are always loaded. Would you like to bet one of your nuts, there's not a round chambered?
28 PWM2TXLHopper : Anybody who has been trained in proper handling and understands the mechanics of a semi-automatic handgun knows that there is no danger in concealing
29 MDorBust : 10-15 lb trigger pull on a pistol? Umm.. which gun would that be on? As for the rest of the post... no. Just... no. 1) Trained officers don't stick h
30 Post contains links PWM2TXLHopper : Quoting MDorBust (Reply 29): 3) A firearm is ALWAYS loaded. Any trained officer will tell you that. BTW: ANC and I both fall into that "trained office
31 MDorBust : I'm sorry, but the second sentence gives lie to the first two sentences. A holster secures a weapon from movement, a waistband does not. A holster pr
32 Post contains links PWM2TXLHopper : Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31): holster prevents external objects from accidentally manipulating a firearm, a waistband does not. A tree branch or other
33 MDorBust : I have never, ever. Not once carried a handgun on my person without it being in some kind of holster. If you had the "luxury" of picking up your weap
34 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Irrelevent. And you can spare me the weapon mechanics lecture. Rule #1: All Guns are Always Loaded. And they don't belong in your waist band unless y
35 Post contains links PWM2TXLHopper : Quoting MDorBust (Reply 33): I've already passed a safety course long ago. Actually, at my Rod and Gun Club I'm required to take a refresher course ev
36 PWM2TXLHopper : Nope, sorry I'll be in Germany. No need to travel thousands of miles to shoot guns with people I don't know and frankly wouldn't feel safe shooting w
37 Falstaff : Wow all this over a posed photo of me and my friends in the woods. I keep my concealed pistol in a holster, not only does keeping it in a holster redu
38 ANCFlyer : Frankly, I'm relieved. I've met most of the people that will be in BHM, I don't anticipate any problems. I haven't booted anyone from a range in a lo
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