NEW YORK (CNN) -- While American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting some of the most intense battles of the war against radical Islamic terrorists, our national debate on the future of the conflict has descended to platitudes of campaign rhetoric and a pathological, partisan refusal on both sides of that debate to acknowledge the harsh realities and difficult choices that confront us.
Five years after the September 11 attacks, President Bush told the nation in his televised address, "If we do not defeat these enemies now, we will leave our children to face a Middle East overrun by terrorist states and radical dictators armed with nuclear weapons." Whether right or wrong, President Bush did not tell us how we will defeat these unspecified and unnamed enemies, nor when.
In response to the president's address, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said, "The American people deserved better last night. They deserved a chance to reclaim that sense of unity, purpose and patriotism that swept through our country five years ago."
But like President Bush, Sen. Reid had no recommendations for defeating our enemies in this conflict. Sen. Reid is right that the American people deserve better. They deserve better from both political parties and our national leadership.
.....
Last week, the Senate voted unanimously to spend $63 billion more to fund military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. That brings the total amount appropriated to conduct both wars to more than $469 billion. That's more than twice the Bush administration's original estimate of $100 - $200 billion for the war in Iraq, but far less than the estimate from Nobel Laureate economist and Columbia professor Joseph Stiglitz. Along with Harvard professor Linda Bilmes, Stiglitz projects the war in Iraq will cost more than $1 trillion.
Neither the Bush administration nor the loyal Democratic opposition is speaking to the American people about how these wars will be won and at what cost. After almost five years in Afghanistan and more than three years in Iraq, I believe the American people, and certainly our men and women in uniform, deserve more than partisan rancor and false choices.
The American people cannot be reasonably asked by this president or this secretary of defense to "stay the course" without evidence of a strategy to successfully prosecute the war and defeat the radical Islamist enemy. Otherwise, why are we there? The loyal opposition on Capitol Hill cannot reasonably ask the American people to elect them without articulating a clear new direction and offering a concrete plan for victory. Otherwise, why do we even have a loyal opposition?
"Sentimentality plays with sweet intentions in place of good sense." - Jane Jacobs
Bushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 377 times:
I read this earlier and I usually agree with Dobbs. I think he is right that both of the major parties are failing at the national level. The GOP wants to go down the bumpy road, the Dems dont like the ride but havent found a better way themselves. Partisan politics dont serve anyone but those in the power struggle. Ultimately with these two parties and the firm grasp they have on the system, it is the American people who are diserviced by it. It is time in my eyes for reform on the party system in this country.
The GOP needs to chill out, and stop being influenced by the far right trying to instill thier values on the rest of the country. The Democrats need to quit bitching about the GOP and come up with thier own workable plans, and they need one about immigration, the economy, health care, and Iraq. Until they can be more proactive and sell thier ideas they will continue to appear like whiners.
Queso From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 358 times:
There was a noticable escalation in Jack Cafferty's oral diarrhea today on CNN as well. Some executive must have done a little ass-chewing in a staff meeting about it being a slow news cycle and told the writers and on-air staff that they needed to bump it up a notch.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 352 times:
Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter): Neither the Bush administration nor the loyal Democratic opposition is speaking to the American people about how these wars will be won and at what cost. After almost five years in Afghanistan and more than three years in Iraq, I believe the American people, and certainly our men and women in uniform, deserve more than partisan rancor and false choices.
Lou Dobbs is right to raise these questions. But there is a fine line between what he does, and what the likes of Senate Minority Leader Reid and others in the Democratic Party have done, and Mr. Dobbs is fortunate to find himself well clear of the line. Reid and his party, unfortunately, find themselves well over it.
In a time of war, the duty of a well-informed citizenry is to keep the political leadership in check. It is, as Dobbs says, not through rancor or partisanship that this is done, but a sober, reasonable, and firm demand for success.
Our men and women are not so much cannon-fodder, to be sacrificed without legitimate cause. The citizenry is given to assume that our soldiers sacrifice their lives and well-being for a cause that promotes our interests, promotes liberty, and promotes justice. When the political leadership fails to galvanize the support of the people, the cause of this failure is never attributable to the people, but always to the political leadership itself.
And it is well and good to ask why the Administration has not done a better job of securing the support of the American people.
What the national Democratic Party has done, however, is to assume defeat. They see the glass not as half-empty, but filled to the brim -- with hydrochloric acid. They foresee failure everywhere.
Instead of lighting a match, the national Democrats have cursed the proverbial darkness, seeking not so much to strengthen the national spirit as to weaken our remaining resolve. This is a travesty.
Has the Administration failed in some measure to maintain our national will? Yes, it has. By and through a number of its shortcomings, the Administration has let the American people down. But its heart is in the right place, and it remains the best qualified to prosecute the war.
In the war against terrorism, the Administration need only improve, to restore greater hope, to fight a stronger battle.
The Democrats, on the other hand, promise only to fully recognize that war when comes to our shores. The exception, perhaps, is the call to strengthen our forces in Afghanistan -- if indeed that call exists. But of what use is this, if to do it, Iraq falls? And fall it surely will if America does not stand resolutely behind it, and there will be a defeat on that score.
Given the choice between this Administration and the Democrats, the only alternative is victory. It cannot be defeat. It cannot be the Democratic way.
Slider From United States, joined Feb 2004, 5355 posts, RR: 49 Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 318 times:
I love Dobbs. He's the curmudgeonly grumpy old man who calls a spade a spade. Love him.
Good to have a pissed-off-as-hell national voice screaming about the oligarchy that's screwing up this country. And he's right on the money about illegal immigration too.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 304 times:
Quoting Slider (Reply 4): Good to have a pissed-off-as-hell national voice screaming about the oligarchy that's screwing up this country. And he's right on the money about illegal immigration too.
Great column.
Agreed on all counts. I much prefer him to Jack Cafferty.
Dobbs is also known for his promotion of space exploration. I have a book of his that he wrote in that connection.
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 295 times:
On a broader picture, what has Congress as a whole done in the pass few years. I would say nothing of note. Social Security reform. border issues, paying for the war, health care, when it comes to the issues Americans care about Congress gets a big F for a grade.
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 4488 posts, RR: 22 Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 287 times:
Lou had a guy on this morning promoting a new book called Slander: How "Gotcha!" Politics Is Destroying America...a coalition government in which folks from both sides of the aisle were forced to work together for the good of the American people rather than themselves was the thrust of it all and Lou was rather pleased. As was I.
"Sentimentality plays with sweet intentions in place of good sense." - Jane Jacobs
FDXMECH From United States, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 49 Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 273 times:
Quoting Slider (Reply 4): I love Dobbs. He's the curmudgeonly grumpy old man who calls a spade a spade. Love him.
I also love Lou Dobbs. But what raises my blood pressurew is after his "Lou Dobbs Tonight" program at 6:00PM EDT, it's not replayed until somtimes, 4:00AM. Meanwhile that old croaker Larry King is replayed ad nauseum all night. What's the story with that?
Lucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 251 times:
Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 9): Quoting Slider (Reply 4):
I love Dobbs. He's the curmudgeonly grumpy old man who calls a spade a spade. Love him.
I also love Lou Dobbs. But what raises my blood pressure is after his "Lou Dobbs Tonight" program at 6:00PM EDT, it's not replayed until sometimes, 4:00AM. Meanwhile that old croaker Larry King is replayed ad nauseum all night. What's the story with that?
I agree whole heartedly.....I am really surprised that CNN allows Lou Dobbs to even speak...
B777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 245 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3): The Democrats, on the other hand, promise only to fully recognize that war when comes to our shores. The exception, perhaps, is the call to strengthen our forces in Afghanistan -- if indeed that call exists. But of what use is this, if to do it, Iraq falls? And fall it surely will if America does not stand resolutely behind it, and there will be a defeat on that score.
Given the choice between this Administration and the Democrats, the only alternative is victory. It cannot be defeat. It cannot be the Democratic way.
A description of the Democratic party from...a right winger. You don't know a damn thing about the Democrats.
But it will be the Democratic way. We will cover the mid terms, and hopefully start holding those responsible for Iraq accountable, right up to, and including impeachment of Bush. Hopefully we'll take the White House in 2008, and start to undo the damage this president has done to our great country. It will start w/ focusing our military, diplomacy, money, and effort into capturing or killing OBL...you right ringers remember him right? The guy who killed 3000 innocent Americans? Justice will be done. Then without the Iraq distraction we can concentrate our efforts into destroying al-queda. Cause hey...they're still around arent they? If things were done correctly, there would be any surprise plots to blow up airplanes uncovered. There wouldn't be any more video messages. This president has been a failure on all accounts.
I know you'll hate the new direction we're going to take this country. Please feel free to move to Poland, and get out of OUR country.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 224 times:
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 11): A description of the Democratic party from...a right winger. You don't know a damn thing about the Democrats.
But it will be the Democratic way. We will cover the mid terms, and hopefully start holding those responsible for Iraq accountable, right up to, and including impeachment of Bush. Hopefully we'll take the White House in 2008, and start to undo the damage this president has done to our great country. It will start w/ focusing our military, diplomacy, money, and effort into capturing or killing OBL...you right ringers remember him right? The guy who killed 3000 innocent Americans? Justice will be done. Then without the Iraq distraction we can concentrate our efforts into destroying al-queda. Cause hey...they're still around arent they? If things were done correctly, there would be any surprise plots to blow up airplanes uncovered. There wouldn't be any more video messages. This president has been a failure on all accounts.
Actually, we caught Sheikh Khalid Mohammed, the guy who actually planned the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.^1
So I think that your rhetoric is quite overwrought.
The truth is that, by my recollection of reasonable estimates, 90% or so of the most important leadership of Al Qaeda known to our intelligence sources to have existed at around the time of the September 11, 2001 attacks have been caught or killed. That accomplishment means that the performance of our President in the war against terror is really not so bad as you seem to believe; not nearly so.
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B777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 215 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 12): Actually, we caught Sheikh Khalid Mohammed, the guy who actually planned the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.
Super. We have the guy who thought of it. We had the guy who thought of the WTC bombing too, and that didn't do any to stop al-queda.
We have given up on capturing and killing the people responsible for making it happen tho. The president even said he's 'not concerned' about bin Laden. And we all know that if you don't believe the president, your unamerican, right?
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 12): 90% or so of the most important leadership of Al Qaeda known to our intelligence sources to have existed at around the time of the September 11, 2001 attacks have been caught or killed. That accomplishment is really not so bad as you seem to believe.
Keep cranking out those excuses...
That's quite a defeatist attitude. Another thing you and the president have in common...
Oh yea...and you don't need to add in footnotes later to sound smart. I already knew KSM was the 'brainchild' of 9-11. But he didn't make it possible. You know who did, who's still free...and that's something no excuse will ever change.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 205 times:
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 13): Oh yea...and you don't need to add in footnotes later to sound smart. I already knew KSM was the 'brainchild' of 9-11. But he didn't make it possible. You know who did, who's still free...and that's something no excuse will ever change.
What do you mean he didn't make it possible?
By the same measure, Hitler didn't make the Holocaust possible, either, since it required the cooperation of millions of Nazis.
In fact, arguably, without the conformist psyche of some of the German people that some have attributed to historical circumstances, even Hitler's appointment as Chancellor wouldn't have been deemed possible.
Either way, one cannot dispute the importance of the capture of Sheikh Khalid Mohammed by saying that there are other figures out there who are also responsible. Even if Osama had been caught, he would have had a successor, and the left would still be able to say, "We caught Osama, but what about his successor?" And if the successor had been caught, the left could still say, "But what about his successor?" Ad infinitum.
This never-ending desire to place blame on the President for not achieving everything the left wants is literally that -- never-ending. Its effect is simply to disparage what the United States actually has done by comparison to a literally infinite set of possibilities. This style of argumentation is irrational, because it fails to accord due significance to what was accomplished for pure reasons of political advantage. It is, in some ways, an argument resting on the desire for political profit over truth and rationality.
Um, OBL made it possible. It's scary I have to point that out to you.
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 14): Even if Osama had been caught, he would have had a successor, and the left would still be able to say, "We caught Osama, but what about his successor?" This never-ending desire to place blame is literally that -- never-ending.
And then we go after the successor...and so on, and we use the rest of the energy to make this country safer and better. But the money, time, and resources we've wasted with the Iraq distraction unfortunatly will make this impossible most likely.
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 14): This style of argumentation is irrational, because it fails to accord due significance to what was accomplished for pure reasons of political advantage.
AerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 191 times:
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15): Um, OBL made it possible. It's scary I have to point that out to you.
Without Sheikh Khalid Mohammed, who thought up the idea, in what sense would the idea have been possible?
And how do you know that Sheikh Khalid Mohammed wouldn't have tried to go for some other source of funding if Osama had turned down his idea? He seemed to have quite the initiative, if you read his biography.
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15): And then we go after the successor...and so on, and we use the rest of the energy to make this country safer and better. But the money, time, and resources we've wasted with the Iraq distraction unfortunatly will make this impossible most likely.
Actually, a case can be made that waiting until Iraq explodes would have maintained the possibility of much greater risk.
Merely because the left believes that Iraq was a mistake doesn't mean that it wasn't reasonable to have liberated it at the time.
In this case, justice is never complete, so your argument proves too much. One could always say, by extension, that even if the Democrats were to achieve power, they would never be able to make America safer, if your argument is that the pursuit of infinite successors is a valid criticism against the President. And then where would you be?
The only difference, if both Republicans and Democrats would be confronted with a problem of infinite progression, which your argument admits, is the difference in parties. And that's why I say that the argument is ultimately one for political profit -- not truth and justice.
B777-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 183 times:
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16): Actually, a case can be made that waiting until Iraq explodes would have maintained the possibility of much greater risk.
Merely because the left believes that Iraq was a mistake doesn't mean that it wasn't reasonable to have liberated it at the time.
If by 'the left' you mean 'rational people', then I agree.
Look, Iraq wasn't a threat, wasn't going to be a threat. This is a fact now. End of story.
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 16): In this case, justice is never complete, so your argument proves too much. One could always say, by extension, that even if the Democrats were to achieve power, they would never be able to make America safer, if your argument is that the pursuit of infinite successors is a valid criticism against the President. And then where would you be?
The only difference, if both Republicans and Democrats would be confronted with a problem of infinite progression, which your argument admits, is the difference in parties. And that's why I say that the argument is ultimately one for political profit -- not truth and justice.
Look, you can try to talk this to death all you want. OBL is responsible for murdering 3000 innocent Americans. OBL is still free. And that's a disgrace to this country, and a disservice to those tho died.
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