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"dog" The Bounty Hunter Arrested  
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Posted (8 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2518 times:
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Duane "DOG" Chapman, the celeb bounty hunter was arrested with his 2 sons in Honolulu by Federal Marshalls on kidnapping charges, CNN reported about an hour ago(Oddly, this was at the request of the Mexican gov't). This stems from a 2003 apprehension of the looney Max Factor heir Andrew Luster who escaped to Mexico after raping a minor. Dog went to down to Mexico, grabbed him and brought him to the border and turned him over. They surrendered to Mexican officials and spent 3 days in jail in a well-publisized incident. He broke the law, but most Americans feel he did the right thing. The thing that strikes me is, the Mexican gov't now has hand in American law. What a great world we live in. If I was one of those federal marshals, I would've quit rather than serve a request at the behest of the Mexican gov't, if this indeed turns out to be a rope-a-dope.


Made from jets!
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

WTF!

That is complete BS if true. The reason DOG had to 'kidnap' the heir is because Mexico has no extradition treaty with the US, so if DOG was arrested on behalf of the Mexican government, it would be BS.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

I believe that he is facing possible similar charges in California, for taking into custody the wrong person, and the same person is suing him in civil court because the innocent person was shown in his show being handcuffed and dragged to jail. Personally, I think Mr. Chapman is a worthless POS that looking for the limelight.

User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 1):
The reason DOG had to 'kidnap' the heir is because Mexico has no extradition treaty with the US,

Americans going to Mexico or any other country have to follow the local laws, this is a clear case where he didn't, he jumped bail so now we will see how this plays out.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2483 times:
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If the Mexican government is pursuing charges through the US, or civil courts here, then fair game.

If they have a fair extradition treaty with us that they honor, then fair game.

However, if we're giving them this guy without a damn good reason I'm not very happy.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Personally, I think Mr. Chapman is a worthless POS that looking for the limelight.

Well, he's done some real shitty things in his life, but at least he's done a lot to make up for them, and that is more than can be said for most criminals.




-NWA742


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2444 times:
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Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Personally, I think Mr. Chapman is a worthless POS that looking for the limelight.

Sorry to let you know, but the limelight went looking for him.
http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?...b8-8cf4-c1315963c297&f=00&fg=email



Made from jets!
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2357 times:

I wasn't aware that bringing a "wanted" US adult citizen back into the US would be kidnapping.

User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Seems kind of ironic. What are the chances the Mexican government would give up Mr. Luster, but "Dog" is given up in a heartbeat.


Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Thread starter):
Duane "DOG" Chapman, the celeb bounty hunter was arrested with his 2 sons in Honolulu by Federal Marshalls on kidnapping charges, CNN reported about an hour ago(Oddly, this was at the request of the Mexican gov't). This stems from a 2003 apprehension of the looney Max Factor heir Andrew Luster who escaped to Mexico after raping a minor. Dog went to down to Mexico, grabbed him and brought him to the border and turned him over. They surrendered to Mexican officials and spent 3 days in jail in a well-publisized incident. He broke the law, but most Americans feel he did the right thing. The thing that strikes me is, the Mexican gov't now has hand in American law. What a great world we live in. If I was one of those federal marshals, I would've quit rather than serve a request at the behest of the Mexican gov't, if this indeed turns out to be a rope-a-dope.

I find it very funny that on the first request, we honor the Mexican Govt.'s wishes. Yet when we requested Raul Gomez (illegal immigrant that shot and killed a cop here in Denver) they took weeks to hand him over and dictated what he could recieve and what he could not recieve as punishment here. What a joke.

signed,
Matthew



2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

It is a twisted world, but one has to recognize that 'Dog' Chapman did violate the laws of the sovereign government of Mexico. I would hope that President Bush would tell the Mexican government to tell them get lost as Dog's arrest of Andrew Luster was not able to be done by normal legal means. Of course, Bush has to keep Mexico from hating us even more.
Maybe Dog should have paid off some Mexican cops to do the arrest and transport him to the border and have him arrested by US border police. Now he faces a potentially nasty stint in a Mexican jail. Yet millions of Mexicans are in the USA illegally, 10,000's + entering illegally each day and we don't go after them...


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
I believe that he is facing possible similar charges in California, for taking into custody the wrong person, and the same person is suing him in civil court because the innocent person was shown in his show being handcuffed and dragged to jail. Personally, I think Mr. Chapman is a worthless POS that looking for the limelight.

Shit happens. If anything that goes in DOG'S favor, is the fact that he hunts fugitives. I would say his record of arrests is pretty darned impressive. Being a Bounty Hunter is a very difficult profession (looking at your retirement from CHP, you know how hard it can be with a badge and gun.). We are all human, and can make identity mistakes. Regardless if he is looking for limelight, nobody can touch his ability to get the bad guys.

Look at the fiasco with the Jon Bonnet Ramsey case. Guy was flown all the way back to the US, and turns out that he was not the one. While he had other charges, is that considered kidnapping?

I have personally watched law enforcement handcuff and haul off innocent people. Even law enforcement has its bad days. DOG is doing a good thing, and he is good at what he does. If he gets recognition and makes the limelight,,,,, good for him!!!! If I could get in the limelight, a television show, and lots of $$$$$ for being good at my job.......... I would be fine with that!



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2208 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Thread starter):
The thing that strikes me is, the Mexican gov't now has hand in American law. What a great world we live in. If I was one of those federal marshals, I would've quit rather than serve a request at the behest of the Mexican gov't, if this indeed turns out to be a rope-a-dope.

So now you kinda know how other countries feel when the FBI and CIA have a hand in their countries' law... If there is such agreement between two countries, both have the right to exercise it.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Very simple.
While "Dog" has powers of arrest in the US, he doesn't have them in Mexico (it would have been the same in Germany, private "head hunters" are not legal here, only police and customs can legaly arrrest a person. An exeption is the citizen arrest, if you e.g. catch somebody while he is committing a crime. Then you can hold him until the police arrives.).
Any attempt of arrest would have to go through the Mexican authorities.
If there doesn't exist an extradition treaty, tough luck. It is up to the respective governments to negotiate one.
E.g. Germany and most EU countries do not extradite if a person faces captial punishment or torture.
The crime also has to be punishable in here, e.g. we wouldn't extradite somebody to China because e.g. he broke the Chinese censorship laws.

In some cases we have bilateral agreements with our neighbouring countries (e.g. the Netherlands), which permit police from one country in hot pursuit to cross the borders and to arrest a fugitive.But in this case the local police has to be informed ASAP and the suspect then handed over to the respective country's police, who will then go through the process of extradiction. In some border counties e.g. German and Dutch police do mixed patrols or even share the police station on both sides of the border.

Arresting somebody in a country without having legal power of arrest IS kidnapping.

Jan


User currently offlineLucky42 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2149 times:

Bottom line is that if the corrupt Mexican law enforcement had been doing it's job Chapman wouldn't have had to go down there to get this scumbag. While true that he violated Mexican law my question is that they had the dog in custody why didn't they take care of it then? Why now almost 3 yrs later? Are they jealous of his fame perhaps?

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 14):
Bottom line is that if the corrupt Mexican law enforcement had been doing it's job Chapman wouldn't have had to go down there to get this scumbag. While true that he violated Mexican law my question is that they had the dog in custody why didn't they take care of it then? Why now almost 3 yrs later? Are they jealous of his fame perhaps?

Correction.
As far as I see the case the fugitive had not comitted a crime on Mexican soil.
Mexico and the US have no extradiction treaty for crimes comitted in the respective other country, so there was no base for the Mexican police to arrest the fugitive. Mexican police and (unlike there is a treaty, other police forces) don't care what somebody did in another country. The only excemption I know of are war crimes and crimes against humanity. Also some countries e.g. make child abuse a crime for their citizens, no matter in which country they comitted it.
What "dog" Chapman did was simply illegal and if he is facing a prison sentence in Mexico it is purely his fault.

It is up to the governments to negotiate a extradiction treaty. Then the US can fax the arrest order over to Mexico and, if approved by a Mexican judge, the Mexican police can arrest the criminal and send him to the US. This will obviously also work the other way around.


Jan


User currently offlineMDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15):
Mexico and the US have no extradiction treaty for crimes comitted in the respective other country...

Yes we do

31 U.S.T. 5061

However, it is currently not applicable to extradition to the United States from Mexico since Mexican courts have ruled that they will not extradite unless the US can make a guarantee on the sentence the accused would receive... which is illegal under US law. So, currently only United States to Mexico extradition happens.

Under article IV of the treaty Mexico is supposed to try any crimes committed by or against Mexican nationals while in other countries. We've found this to be... not the case in practice.

Only one of many areas in which the US needs to re-examine it's relationship with Mexico.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
However, it is currently not applicable to extradition to the United States from Mexico since Mexican courts have ruled that they will not extradite unless the US can make a guarantee on the sentence the accused would receive... which is illegal under US law. So, currently only United States to Mexico extradition happens

As I said, Germany doesn't extradite people if they face the death penalty, and this includes the US. But if it falls within German jurisdiction, the German legal system will prosecute.
An example: I remember a case long ago. where an US soldier raped and killed several women in Germany. He was tried by a German court of law and is now serving a life term in Germany.
The German authorities who had him arrested in first place refused to hand him over to the American authorities due to the fact that he might be executed, which is against the German constitution.

There were other cases in the past as well.

Jan


User currently offlineDw9115 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 449 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
I believe that he is facing possible similar charges in California, for taking into custody the wrong person, and the same person is suing him in civil court because the innocent person was shown in his show being handcuffed and dragged to jail. Personally, I think Mr. Chapman is a worthless POS that looking for the limelight.

Now come on! He has good intentions but does stumble sometimes yet another reason why cops need more money to do these things instead bounty hunters.


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1992 times:
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Simple answer GUILTY! Mexico laws, Mexico wins this round.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15):
Correction.
As far as I see the case the fugitive had not comitted a crime on Mexican soil.
Mexico and the US have no extradiction treaty for crimes comitted in the respective other country, so there was no base for the Mexican police to arrest the fugitive. Mexican police and (unlike there is a treaty, other police forces) don't care what somebody did in another country. The only excemption I know of are war crimes and crimes against humanity. Also some countries e.g. make child abuse a crime for their citizens, no matter in which country they comitted it.
What "dog" Chapman did was simply illegal and if he is facing a prison sentence in Mexico it is purely his fault.

Well it's nice to see that Mexican police care so much about their citizens as to not put suspicion or watch on someone known to be a sexual offender. Can you not tell me honestly that this creep would not have tried to rape some girl in a resort town or small village? C'mon, this guy was probably in heaven seeing all the oppurtunities he had to commit a crime. Your thought that we should not care until they actually commit a crime is very dangerous. This is the exact same attitude that prevented us from accepting Bin Laden when the Sudanese offered him over. (just to go off topic for a sec). Bottom line here folks, Dog was justified in breaking Mexican law if it meant that another innocent girl would be sparred from this pervert.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
If there doesn't exist an extradition treaty, tough luck. It is up to the respective governments to negotiate one.
E.g. Germany and most EU countries do not extradite if a person faces captial punishment or torture.
The crime also has to be punishable in here, e.g. we wouldn't extradite somebody to China because e.g. he broke the Chinese censorship laws.

While I 100% agree that a person should not be extradicted to another country to face death for a non-violent crime, I have to do a 180 when it comes to accusations of a violent crime. If countries have a problem with the death penalty in violent crime cases, then fine don't use that punishment in that country. However, if we feel a person deserves to die for taking the life of another person, then other nations need to honor that right.

signed,
Matthew



2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1981 times:
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Also maybe in jail he will get that awful mullet cut off!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1976 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 19):
Simple answer GUILTY! Mexico laws, Mexico wins this round.

If that's the case, why did they wait 2-3 years to arrest him? They knew where to find him all these years, for Chrissakes.

Quoting Yanksn4 (Reply 20):
Bottom line here folks, Dog was justified in breaking Mexican law if it meant that another innocent girl would be sparred from this pervert.

 checkmark 


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13599 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1957 times:
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Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Under article IV of the treaty Mexico is supposed to try any crimes committed by or against Mexican nationals while in other countries.

So then let's just start shipping illegal aliens not to the border, but to the Mexican judicial system for trial, as each of them committed a crime by entering the U.S. illegally.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 22):
If that's the case, why did they wait 2-3 years to arrest him?

I was asking the same question before, but now I assume it's because of the boredom brought on by not fixing things or enforcing laws in their own country.




-NWA742


25 MD11Engineer : Funny how you "Law and Order" people are willing to break laws if it suits your agenda. Either you have laws or don't. Jan
26 Luv2fly : The bottom line is that he is no better than the people he chases! What is good for the goose is good for the gander! He broke the law, once by bounty
27 Yanksn4 : So I'm guessing you'd rather have another girl raped?
28 AirCop : And what would your reaction be if he detained you by mistake took you to the jail, get booked, sit in the cell for a few days, then released by the
29 EMBQA : They were arrested because they failed to appear for their court date in Mexico. This same thing would have happened to any of us. I'm sure had they
30 Dw9115 : Well I know the local sheriff were my parents live (FSD), now it is some what of a small county (only 250,000 people) but he said that when they get
31 MD11Engineer : I fully agree. He also violated the souvereignity of Mexico. I'm glad we don't have private bounty hunters over here. Here (as in most European count
32 Flyboy36y : No he did not. How?
33 TedTAce : He broke Mexican law, then thumbed his nose at the government by leaving and ignoring his parole sentencing. I love watching Dog, but I'm calling a s
34 Post contains links 767Lover : Way to be so judgemental. BTW, I bet if that scumbag boyfriend of your daughter's had taken her to Mexico you would have been happy to have Dog's hel
35 MD11Engineer : Well, I think if you want to break the law for personal justice the only honourable thing is to do it yourself, not to pay somebody to break the law
36 Post contains images 767Lover : I don't think we have to worry about you attempting to kick anyone's @$$, Jan!
37 MD11Engineer : You think so? While I'm normaly a peacefull guy and rather avoid confrontations, some people who have made me angry enough in the past got quite surp
38 EMBQA : Anyone watch special on A&E on Tuesday...? While they did good going after Andrew Luster and bring that pig to justice.... they all but admitted they
39 TedTAce : I wasted my time on this, yes. Yeap, I think they should have taken thier licks while they could have gotten away with it. Maybe if they had stayed t
40 AirCop : Its time for Dog and his crew to face the music. Lets face for a action there is a reaction and this one bit him.
41 MiCorazonAzul : He went into a country and did something illegal which is bounty hunting. Why on earth shouldn't Mexico prosecute him? Oh and not only did he go boun
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