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GM Ford In Talks Too Merge Or Form Alliance?  
User currently offlineMuddydwagon From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 657 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

Just reading through some news stories, and this caught my attention.


The nation's two largest automakers, Ford and General Motors, have reportedly discussed an alliance or merger.


http://www.thestreet.com/_googlen/ne..._ven=GOOGLEN&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA


Both manufacturers are declining comments.

What will this mean for the US auto industry, Is this really what it has come to?


Your thoughts.


Cheers Peter

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1528 times:

Excuse my ignorance but what or how does a car alliance work?

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1508 times:

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 1):
Excuse my ignorance but what or how does a car alliance work?

Sharing of platforms and engines think of being VW owning Skoda, Seat and Audi where platforms and engines are used in each manufacturers marques.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1506 times:

Don't get too excited about General Ford Motor Company:


"As of now, the two companies are not holding talks, and one person says there is a slim chance that anything will come of it."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...icle?AID=/20060918/NEWS99/60918001


User currently offlineORFflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 days ago) and read 1502 times:

Quoting Muddydwagon (Thread starter):
Is this really what it has come to

I think it's pretty much been there for a while. Almost all American made cars and light trucks are very similar in quality, craftsmanship, design, and price. The US automakers have IMO, let the union labor costs put them in a position to sacrifice quality. While I still buy American now, I will not let that be a deciding factor in future auto purchases.


User currently offlineMuddydwagon From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 657 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 days ago) and read 1498 times:

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 4):

Yes I do agree with you there. On the buying American, before I left the US I worked at a Chevrolet dealership and traded my Chevrolet for a Volvo. The quality, craftsmanship, and pride is no longer there. That fact is quite sad.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3):
Don't get too excited about General Ford Motor Company

Yes it is nothing to get excited about. I do think that Ford wants to jump on the Nissan, Renault alliance if GM decides to not pursue it.


Cheers Peter


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

Would the DOJ even allow such a "merger" anyway?

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1476 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
Would the DOJ even allow such a "merger" anyway?

Never happen as would concentrate into 1 company the only real large American vehicle companies (Chrysler is part of German based Daimer-Chrysler). Already Ford and GM do have a joint transmission product and facility for a 6 speed Automatic transmission.
The problems of Ford, GM and DCX (USA side) are very deep, mainly due to union blue collor labor and retiree costs that now have become unsutatinable and made them uncompetitive with foreign based companies which don't have those costs and never will.


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7):
The problems of Ford, GM and DCX (USA side) are very deep, mainly due to union blue collor labor and retiree costs that now have become unsutatinable and made them uncompetitive with foreign based companies which don't have those costs and never will.

I would also say that the American car companies STILL do not have 'it' when it comes to customer post-sales service, as well as the sales-experience..

Too many years of dropping prices to sell crappy cars (which HAVE got better in recent years), and not focusing on the Customer Service aspect of the whole experience.

Story:

When I bought my Mazda6, I was treated like a king.. they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.

When my car came in, my sales guy spent *1* hour going over all the features of my car, where everything was, how to program the remote garage door opener on my rear-view mirror, where all the 'spare' stuff was, and also some 'things that I've learned from our service deparment', such as not shutting the trunk hard enough will cause the doors to not lock, etc.

I won't even go into the service aspect.. they've been FANTASTIC.

Granted, it's dealer-by-dealer, but I just find more people pissed off at GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. when it comes to after-sales support ,than you do with imports.

They just still haven't got it yet..

They are getting better though -- GM's recent extension of their warranty programs is a step in the right direction!

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1441 times:

I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1438 times:

Would I be able to get a GMC 8.1 liter V8 with the Lincoln Town Car?
That would be cool.  yes 

Could the Cadillac DTS be mounted to the current Panther platform?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1420 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 9):
I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?

I think Kirk Kerkorian is looking to dump his shares and getting Renault/Nissan to buy them seems like a good idea. Basicly the alliance would work in similar way to the Nissan Renault one does. GM would buy shares in Renault and Nissan, Nissan and Reanult would buy shares in GM and product sharing would also occur.

A GM Ford deal has no chance. It is super anti-competitive. It would almost be like Apple and Microsoft merging (Klaus would slash his wrists)


User currently offlineCheckraiser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1412 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.

I, personally, would not want that kind of attention.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
When my car came in, my sales guy spent *1* hour going over all the features of my car,

My rectum feels stretched and chaffed after I sign for a new car. I prefer to leave the dealership right away!

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
Granted, it's dealer-by-dealer

 checkmark 

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
Mazda6

Ironic - I believe this is a rebadged Ford Fusion.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1410 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 11):
It would almost be like Apple and Microsoft merging (Klaus would slash his wrists)

Or grow up and dump his Apple for the real deal.  duck 

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 11):
A GM Ford deal has no chance. It is super anti-competitive.

Before Steve Jobs took over Apple, wasn't there talks of Apple and Microsoft merging?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8451 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1409 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 13):
Before Steve Jobs took over Apple, wasn't there talks of Apple and Microsoft merging?

probably just a rumor to stimulate some movement in the stock prices.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8):
When I bought my Mazda6, I was treated like a king.. they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.

I just got a 2006 new Mazda 6. That is a model assembled in the USA, in a UAW contolled plant in Flat Rock, MI, where the Ford Mustang is assembled too), the V-6 is made in Ohio or Mexico and Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda worldwide.
So far is seems better than the Fusion/Milan on price and value and it seems to be a lot of fun to drive, very smooth. The dealership didn't treat me the same as your's did, but still it was professional and at a Mazda only store (although part of a group that owns a number of brand dealerhips)


User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1378 times:

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 12):
Ironic - I believe this is a rebadged Ford Fusion.

Granted, it is built in a plant in Michigan but the Mazda6 has been around well before the Fusion was released.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
just got a 2006 new Mazda 6. That is a model assembled in the USA, in a UAW contolled plant in Flat Rock, MI, where the Ford Mustang is assembled too), the V-6 is made in Ohio or Mexico and Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda worldwide.
So far is seems better than the Fusion/Milan on price and value and it seems to be a lot of fun to drive, very smooth. The dealership didn't treat me the same as your's did, but still it was professional and at a Mazda only store (although part of a group that owns a number of brand dealerhips)

Yessir, I was aware of that prior to my post.

If you take a look at my message though, I wasn't calling into question the American WORKER.. I was calling into question the American Automaker NOT understanding that sometimes it's not about selling cheap cars. It's about the whole experience from sales, to after-sales service...

That was my point  Wink

And, by the way.. my next car is likely to be a Civic, or even more likely, a Mazda3, which is built in Japan  Wink

It does say a lot when the Mazda6 WILL hold it's value for re-sale more than the Fusion, just like the Toyota Matrix does over the Pontiac Vibe..

Same car, same parts, some different badges and different body panels, but the guts are the same, yet one car holds more value..

Perception is key.. and right now, the general perception of the American Automaker is that their cars are cheap, plastic and not of high quality..

GM is doing a good job of trying to change that perception now..


1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1372 times:

I think it's very safe to relegate the reported GM/Ford "talks" to the ain'tgonnahappen.com website.

Reiterating previous comments about PERCERPTION of quality and reliability, it's very significant. And, as has been pointed out in numerous topics, USA product is (and has been) very competitive in many if not most areas for a number of years and continues to be so.

BTW, the Flat Rock, MI plant that's been mentioned was originally built (I watched it go up in stages on trips back and forth to our Monroe, MI hangar) as a foundry and engine plant. I believe the "famous" 351 Cleveland CJ V8 blocks were produced there for several years. Other former products after it was converted included the Probe which was originally intended to be the Mustang III. Glad FoMoCo 86'd THAT plan. Regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 days ago) and read 1344 times:

Quoting N231YE (Reply 9):
I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?

It looks like it will happen.

GM and Toyota have an alliance so GM and Ford is not as out there as you guys think, stock swaps are not the only type too.

Toyota produces Pontiac's in a Toyota plant, Toyota produces Camry's in a GM plant. Ford has put Mazda transmissions in Rangers since the early 80s long before they gained control. I could go on all night.

Its all about not reinventing the wheel, pardon the very relevant pun.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
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