I think it's pretty much been there for a while. Almost all American made cars and light trucks are very similar in quality, craftsmanship, design, and price. The US automakers have IMO, let the union labor costs put them in a position to sacrifice quality. While I still buy American now, I will not let that be a deciding factor in future auto purchases.
Yes I do agree with you there. On the buying American, before I left the US I worked at a Chevrolet dealership and traded my Chevrolet for a Volvo. The quality, craftsmanship, and pride is no longer there. That fact is quite sad.
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 3): Don't get too excited about General Ford Motor Company
Yes it is nothing to get excited about. I do think that Ford wants to jump on the Nissan, Renault alliance if GM decides to not pursue it.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 942 times:
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12330 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 933 times:
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6): Would the DOJ even allow such a "merger" anyway?
Never happen as would concentrate into 1 company the only real large American vehicle companies (Chrysler is part of German based Daimer-Chrysler). Already Ford and GM do have a joint transmission product and facility for a 6 speed Automatic transmission.
The problems of Ford, GM and DCX (USA side) are very deep, mainly due to union blue collor labor and retiree costs that now have become unsutatinable and made them uncompetitive with foreign based companies which don't have those costs and never will.
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 922 times:
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 7): The problems of Ford, GM and DCX (USA side) are very deep, mainly due to union blue collor labor and retiree costs that now have become unsutatinable and made them uncompetitive with foreign based companies which don't have those costs and never will.
I would also say that the American car companies STILL do not have 'it' when it comes to customer post-sales service, as well as the sales-experience..
Too many years of dropping prices to sell crappy cars (which HAVE got better in recent years), and not focusing on the Customer Service aspect of the whole experience.
Story:
When I bought my Mazda6, I was treated like a king.. they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.
When my car came in, my sales guy spent *1* hour going over all the features of my car, where everything was, how to program the remote garage door opener on my rear-view mirror, where all the 'spare' stuff was, and also some 'things that I've learned from our service deparment', such as not shutting the trunk hard enough will cause the doors to not lock, etc.
I won't even go into the service aspect.. they've been FANTASTIC.
Granted, it's dealer-by-dealer, but I just find more people pissed off at GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.. when it comes to after-sales support ,than you do with imports.
They just still haven't got it yet..
They are getting better though -- GM's recent extension of their warranty programs is a step in the right direction!
Bill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8320 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 877 times:
Quoting N231YE (Reply 9): I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?
I think Kirk Kerkorian is looking to dump his shares and getting Renault/Nissan to buy them seems like a good idea. Basicly the alliance would work in similar way to the Nissan Renault one does. GM would buy shares in Renault and Nissan, Nissan and Reanult would buy shares in GM and product sharing would also occur.
A GM Ford deal has no chance. It is super anti-competitive. It would almost be like Apple and Microsoft merging (Klaus would slash his wrists)
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12330 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 861 times:
Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 8): When I bought my Mazda6, I was treated like a king.. they announced that they had a new car buyer, everyone got up and clapped, and I was given a shirt.
I just got a 2006 new Mazda 6. That is a model assembled in the USA, in a UAW contolled plant in Flat Rock, MI, where the Ford Mustang is assembled too), the V-6 is made in Ohio or Mexico and Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda worldwide.
So far is seems better than the Fusion/Milan on price and value and it seems to be a lot of fun to drive, very smooth. The dealership didn't treat me the same as your's did, but still it was professional and at a Mazda only store (although part of a group that owns a number of brand dealerhips)
Lnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1588 posts, RR: 17 Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 835 times:
Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 12): Ironic - I believe this is a rebadged Ford Fusion.
Granted, it is built in a plant in Michigan but the Mazda6 has been around well before the Fusion was released.
Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15): just got a 2006 new Mazda 6. That is a model assembled in the USA, in a UAW contolled plant in Flat Rock, MI, where the Ford Mustang is assembled too), the V-6 is made in Ohio or Mexico and Ford owns a controlling interest in Mazda worldwide.
So far is seems better than the Fusion/Milan on price and value and it seems to be a lot of fun to drive, very smooth. The dealership didn't treat me the same as your's did, but still it was professional and at a Mazda only store (although part of a group that owns a number of brand dealerhips)
Yessir, I was aware of that prior to my post.
If you take a look at my message though, I wasn't calling into question the American WORKER.. I was calling into question the American Automaker NOT understanding that sometimes it's not about selling cheap cars. It's about the whole experience from sales, to after-sales service...
That was my point
And, by the way.. my next car is likely to be a Civic, or even more likely, a Mazda3, which is built in Japan
It does say a lot when the Mazda6 WILL hold it's value for re-sale more than the Fusion, just like the Toyota Matrix does over the Pontiac Vibe..
Same car, same parts, some different badges and different body panels, but the guts are the same, yet one car holds more value..
Perception is key.. and right now, the general perception of the American Automaker is that their cars are cheap, plastic and not of high quality..
GM is doing a good job of trying to change that perception now..
Cptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2549 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 829 times:
I think it's very safe to relegate the reported GM/Ford "talks" to the ain'tgonnahappen.com website.
Reiterating previous comments about PERCERPTION of quality and reliability, it's very significant. And, as has been pointed out in numerous topics, USA product is (and has been) very competitive in many if not most areas for a number of years and continues to be so.
BTW, the Flat Rock, MI plant that's been mentioned was originally built (I watched it go up in stages on trips back and forth to our Monroe, MI hangar) as a foundry and engine plant. I believe the "famous" 351 Cleveland CJ V8 blocks were produced there for several years. Other former products after it was converted included the Probe which was originally intended to be the Mustang III. Glad FoMoCo 86'd THAT plan. Regards...jack
DeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 801 times:
Quoting N231YE (Reply 9): I thought GM was still in talks over a GM-Renault-Nissan alliance. Did that fall through?
It looks like it will happen.
GM and Toyota have an alliance so GM and Ford is not as out there as you guys think, stock swaps are not the only type too.
Toyota produces Pontiac's in a Toyota plant, Toyota produces Camry's in a GM plant. Ford has put Mazda transmissions in Rangers since the early 80s long before they gained control. I could go on all night.
Its all about not reinventing the wheel, pardon the very relevant pun.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
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