Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
On The Nature Of Apologies: How Much Is Enough?  
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

It is noted with interest that there is criticism that Benedict XVI's repeated apologies for his recent speech quoting a Byzantine emperor were insufficient because he said he was sorry for the uproar that he caused, and not for having made statements that caused it.

The critics may have a point.

Now, in another connection, we read this further criticism of the Pope:

(Excerpt)

Quote:
In contrast, Pope Benedict has managed to antagonise two major world faiths within a few months. The current anger of Muslims is comparable to the anger and disappointment felt by Jews after his visit to Auschwitz in May. He gave a long address at the site of the former concentration camp and failed to mention anti-semitism, and offered no apology - whether on behalf of his own country, Germany, or on behalf of the Catholic Church.


Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1875791,00.html

So, apparently, the Pope should have apologized (again) on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church for the Church's alleged inaction during the Holocaust.

Hasn't the Church apologized on this score before? I thought it had.

How many times do people have to apologize for the same thing, I wonder? Twice? Three times? Three million?

That's a legitimate question, because technically, as long as an apology is sincerely meant, it need only be offered once. Demanding that apologies be granted again and again is rather excessive, isn't it?

What is the nature of apologies, and how much apology is enough?

Suggested reading:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/pope_apo.htm

[Edited 2006-09-19 12:47:55]

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3233 times:

You have a good point, but the Jews are demanding an apology for something that has been apologized for before while the Muslims are demanding an apology for something that only occured last week, and that he has not apologized for properly yet.

I personally think the Pope's apology is enough, and I am completley and utterly disgusted by what is going on; how can those Somali militiamen kill a 70 year old nun who is their country just because she is Catholic? Also, how can my fellow countrymen attack churches simply because they are Christian? I mean, they aren't even Catholic and had nothing to do with the Pope's statement, nobody, including Catholics, should be attacked; it was one man's comments, not 1.2 billion people's comments.

Disgusting...


User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

Quoting

"We have had to find a way to liberate and purify memory without talking about responsibility."

Huh? Religion or politics?

How much hand wringing and messing about would be saved if,once and for all, the Catholic church (for it was them) came out and said, "Yes, we helped the Nazis in WW2. It was wrong. We admit it is wrong. We shouldn't have done it."

....but you know how it is.... we were under the Nazi umbrella.... if we didn't help to hand over the jews then our heads would have been on the block, and, frankly, who's ass were we going to protect?.....


What's the worst that could happen? I mean, God is watching, isn't he, and he's been keeping a tab on who did what, to whom and when. Anything that could happen on earth would surely pale into insignificance once you're at the pearly gates, or elsewhere.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3226 times:

This is why there is so much cynicism about the Roman Catholic Church, frankly. There is a bit of politicking that goes on within it, isn't there, and in its policies?

Nor is this limited to the Church itself. Hardly.

I mean, let's look at it dispassionately.

People of ecumenical (inclusive) inclinations love to cite John Paul II's and Vatican II's statements that, in effect, relegate Catholicism to simply one of many faiths that are "equally valid". And -- think about it -- John Paul II was the first Pope ever to set foot in a mosque, let alone kiss the Koran.

Now, much the world seems to love John Paul II's memory in that respect; it also loved him while he was alive, although this unusual ardor tended to attenuate the farther the conversation veered from how much all religions are the same.

In other words, the more that the "progressive" view of religion (such as it was), that all paths to God were equal, was promoted, the more love was shown by people of all faiths toward... the self-claimed vicar, in the realm temporal, of Christ. The self-claimed infallible vicar of the living Christ, on Earth.

Much wiser men than I have claimed that the more inclusive the Roman Catholic Church was, the more it was like Christ Himself.

But is that claim actually true?

It's quite ironic to me that progressives seem to ignore the truth about Christianity in one respect (i.e., that it can be rather exclusive, rather than inclusive), and yet attack it on the basis of that truth in another (ibid.). That is, progressives think that the Church (under John Paul II) was properly inclusive, yet progressives also think that the Church (in general) is exclusive and anti-[insert cause here].

It seems that the less Roman Catholic was the Pope, the more he was loved. Perhaps the late Pope's truer calling was to be the universal Pope, although this was not his title.

The theology of this is quite beyond me. But it does seem that the rationalizations in support of, or attacks against, the Roman Catholic Church, are evidently chaotic by nature. There is little rhyme or reason as to why the Church should happen to be an epitome of progress, in one respect, and yet, Sinead O'Connor-like, also be deemed the mother of all conservatism, in another -- depending, seemingly, on the day of the week.

If what his detractors, such as Madeleine Bunting, the author of the cited Guardian article, says is reasonable, then what Benedict XVI has done, it would seem, is to make the Roman Catholic Church a church in which Roman Catholicism actually rules. Very little, really, should we be surprised, since, while this may not be ecumenical, at least it has the virtue of being Roman Catholic.

As for whether this serves the interests of apologia, I leave that up to the reader.

[Edited 2006-09-19 14:01:37]

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3207 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 1):
while the Muslims are demanding an apology for something that only occured last week

Noooooo, it didn't happen last week . . . the quote by the Pope might have happened last week, but the words he referenced were spoken 700 years ago. Perhaps the Muslims ought to take it up with the people that first spoke the words?

Quoting QR332 (Reply 1):
that he has not apologized for properly yet.

Opinion

Quoting QR332 (Reply 1):
Also, how can my fellow countrymen attack churches simply because they are Christian?

Simple answer - that will get me  flamed  I know: Because that's the only response to any slight the Muslim world can produce in this day in age . . . violence and more violence. Obviously not all Muslims are the culprits, but those that are continue to damn the Muslim people that are not.

Unfortunately.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 1):
Also, how can my fellow countrymen attack churches simply because they are Christian? I mean, they aren't even Catholic and had nothing to do with the Pope's statement, nobody, including Catholics, should be attacked; it was one man's comments, not 1.2 billion people's comments.

Are your fellow Muslims taking the parties responsible to task for this? Are the questions you cite above being asked and answers being demanded from within the Muslim community?


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Noooooo, it didn't happen last week . . . the quote by the Pope might have happened last week, but the words he referenced were spoken 700 years ago. Perhaps the Muslims ought to take it up with the people that first spoke the words?

ANC, nobody quotes somebody for no reason. If I quoted Adolf Hitler on Jews being sub-human and didn't explain exactly what I meant, what would your impression be?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Simple answer - that will get me flamed I know: Because that's the only response to any slight the Muslim world can produce in this day in age . . . violence and more violence. Obviously not all Muslims are the culprits, but those that are continue to damn the Muslim people that are not.

Unfortunately.

No, it isn't. Lets look at where the violence is occuring: Palestine and Somalia. Now, lets look at the situation in both: Palestine has been under occupation since 1967 and living conditions are among the worst in the Middle East, and Somalia is in a state of complete anarchy with warlords controlling the country.

If it was the only way Muslims know how to react, surely you'd see similar things occuring throughout the Muslim world? What it is, to me at least, is people who are living in bad conditions trying to take out their anger on the West in any way they know how. It is monstrous, it is disgusting, they deserve to be hung, but if it was indeed a Muslim thing, it would be occuring everywhere.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
Are your fellow Muslims taking the parties responsible to task for this? Are the questions you cite above being asked and answers being demanded from within the Muslim community?

Yes, they are being asked over and over again, I was even watching a debate on 9/11 on Al Jazeera where they had a pro-Al Qaeda Algerian political activist arguing with a pro-US Palestinian political activist, and many very interesting questions were asked by both sides. On the Pope issue, people are very surprised by these attacks, and completley disagree with them.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3189 times:

Ann Applebaum of the Washington Post in her editorial "Enough Apologies" sums it all up quite well:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/09/18/AR2006091800992.html

Do read it.


User currently offlineCptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3188 times:

From (Excerpt) in thread opener:

"The current anger in Muslims is comparable to the anger and disappointment felt by the Jews after his (the Pope's) visit to Auschwitz in May."

Comparable anger? WRONG! I didn't see Jews rioting and calling for the execution of the Pope, burning Catholic churches and murdering Nuns.

The Muslim religion has been hijacked by fanatics and that's the face that (most, apparently) "peaceful" Muslims allow to be portrayed to the world. That the Pope offended the Muslims is perhaps the result of his poor choice of words or presentation but certainly not worthy of such a maelstrom. Admittedly, I'm not Catholic (and haven't read the entirety of his words) but the resultant hysteria of stone-age rabid radicals is yet another illustration of the deterioration of the mindset of these "people". Regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3186 times:

First off - let me say I'm not attempting to be combative or argumentative . . . just seeking answers.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
If I quoted Adolf Hitler on Jews being sub-human and didn't explain exactly what I meant, what would your impression be?

Having some Israeli blood in my veins (along with the Dutch, Irish and Cherokee) I'm prone to a hot temper. That said: I guess it would depend on the context of your comments. Simply quoting Uncle Adolf I'd probably ignore - or think you were nuts - or both. Simply quoting that nut case Hitler isn't enough to get my blood boiling. In fact he was a scoundrel, but a lot of his henchmen were damn sure much worse.

Difference is, QR, I'm not going to go riot in the streets - which is exactly what a lot of your fellow Muslims have done. Along with the usual attempts to blow shit up, and perhaps (as yet unproven connection) the killing of the nun in Somalia.

Further, if the Pope had said something - a quote of several hundred years old - against perhaps the Baptist Church, I don't think it would make the evening news . . . and if it did, it certainly wouldn't be a headline. Further, I don't see a lot of Baptists running into the streets to riot on the occasion that that might occur.

Now, the Pope has gone on to elaborate on what the context of his comments were meant to be. Seems his commentary was meant to be rather benign, a call for understanding across all religous boundries, yet there is still a call for an apology . . . apparently, explanations - and context - are irrelevent.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
If it was the only way Muslims know how to react, surely you'd see similar things occuring throughout the Muslim world?

Hmmm, seems to me rioting occurred in a lot more places than just Palestine and Somalia . . .

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/17/pope.islam/index.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/5349604.stm
Egypt, Palestine, Pakistan, Turkey . . .

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
It is monstrous, it is disgusting, they deserve to be hung, but if it was indeed a Muslim thing, it would be occuring everywhere.



Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
On the Pope issue, people are very surprised by these attacks, and completley disagree with them.

Thanks for that . . .


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Having some Israeli blood in my veins (along with the Dutch, Irish and Cherokee) I'm prone to a hot temper. That said: I guess it would depend on the context of your comments. Simply quoting Uncle Adolf I'd probably ignore - or think you were nuts - or both. Simply quoting that nut case Hitler isn't enough to get my blood boiling. In fact he was a scoundrel, but a lot of his henchmen were damn sure much worse.

Fact is the Pope did not say "while I disagree with this view on Islam, this quote shows...". He did not show that he disagreed with the quote nor did he state that it did not follow his point of view. If I quoted something out of Mein Kampf while criticizing Israel and did not make it clear that I disagreed with that view, how would you react?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Difference is, QR, I'm not going to go riot in the streets - which is exactly what a lot of your fellow Muslims have done. Along with the usual attempts to blow shit up, and perhaps (as yet unproven connection) the killing of the nun in Somalia.

Less than .01% - probably much less - of Muslims is hardly a lot. Also, the most that has happened in riots is the burning of an effigy, there hasn't been any further action other than in Somalia and Palestine.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Hmmm, seems to me rioting occurred in a lot more places than just Palestine and Somalia . . .

From your links, it is not rioting, it is protesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI_Islam_controversy

According to the Wiki article and the sources its cites, protests have hardly been major. Put it into proportion - 1.4 billion Muslims, a few thousands protesting. Its just that those few thousand make a lot of noise.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 3176 times:

Quoting Cptkrell (Reply 7):
Comparable anger? WRONG! I didn't see Jews rioting and calling for the execution of the Pope, burning Catholic churches and murdering Nuns.

Jackie Mason on how Jews would have responded:  Smile

http://samizdatblogfree.blogspot.com...6/04/jackie-mason-and-muslims.html

Could you picture a Jew killing anybody for such meaningless reasons? If a Jew gets mad he might sneak into your house and steal your Lipitor or he would make a deal with your doctor to lie about your cholesterol number, or just when you have fasted a whole day on Yom Kippur he would sneak into your house and steal all the pastrami sandwiches.

I never saw a Jew going into meaningless fights. That is why you seldom see Jewish football players. A Jew is not going to take a chance on spraining his neck or tearing a ligament in his knee, just because he was fighting with somebody about catching a ball. He would rather go to a store and buy another ball and avoid the whole problem. That is why there are also no Jewish hockey players. Hockey players spend all their time hitting each other in the mouth with sticks. When Jews saw how Gentiles played hockey, that is how Jews found out that instead of becoming hockey players they would become dentists, and that way they decided to let other people play the game while they found a way to make a profit from it.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
If I quoted something out of Mein Kampf while criticizing Israel and did not make it clear that I disagreed with that view, how would you react?

Same answer . . . ignore it as ignorance.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
From your links, it is not rioting, it is protesting.

IMO, no difference. The protest against the Vietnam war could be called riots. The race riots in the US in the 1960s could be called protests. Same shit, different word.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 9):
Its just that those few thousand make a lot of noise

And firebomb churches . . .


User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 3156 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Having some Israeli blood in my veins (along with the Dutch, Irish and Cherokee) I'm prone to a hot temper.

I don't know what that has to do with anything. My blood is half-Anglo and I often need to check my temper, too. I understand the Irish have a rep for being hot-blooded, but, as to which I believe you alluded:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Difference is, QR, I'm not going to go riot in the streets

It all comes down to choice.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
If I quoted Adolf Hitler on Jews being sub-human and didn't explain exactly what I meant, what would your impression be?

Personally, I would think that you hated Jews and wanted them exterminated.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 1):
the Muslims are demanding an apology for something that only occured last week, and that he has not apologized for properly yet.

A lot of Muslims and their folk demand lots of things that, if they were to get them, they still would not be satisfied.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
technically, as long as an apology is sincerely meant, it need only be offered once.

That is correct.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
What is the nature of apologies, and how much apology is enough?

I had to learn from an old girlfriend that if I was sorry for something wrong I had done and I wanted to come across sincerely in my apology that I should ask forgiveness for what I had done. Apologizing for people being sorry for how they feel is like hearing Timberlake being sorry for anyone offended at the "wardrobe malfunction". Being sorry for how other people feel is not an apology.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
Demanding that apologies be granted again and again is rather excessive, isn't it

Agreed. He's either sorry or he isn't. And when a person offers the apology, if it's insincere, call 'em out on it and if it comes across sincere, then either forgive or look stupid while sulking more about it.

-R


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 5 days ago) and read 3156 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 1):
Somali militiamen kill a 70 year old nun who is their country just because she is Catholic? Also, how can my fellow countrymen attack churches simply because they are Christian? I mean, they aren't even Catholic and had nothing to do with the Pope's statement, nobody, including Catholics, should be attacked; it was one man's comments, not 1.2 billion people's comments.

Disgusting...

It is, and it proves again that the Islamic world heads right to idiotic violence to vent it's rage at the world-OVER NOTHING! OVER SOMETHING WRITTEN 700 YEARS AGO!

And, in the other thread, you say the Islamic World isn't violent? This proves otherwise.

And you're disgusted. I applaud you for that. But it's going to take the whole of the Arab/Islamic world to act on that disgust, and kill and wipe out these thugs wherever they are, before there will be any peace.

You're disgusted, but then you turn around and cheer on those scum who attack Israel all the time.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 13):
It is, and it proves again that the Islamic world heads right to idiotic violence to vent it's rage at the world-OVER NOTHING! OVER SOMETHING WRITTEN 700 YEARS AGO!

Well, isn't that what all religion is about? Stuff written thousands of years ago? And then people running around killing others to enforce their own version of what was written? Yeah, we have radical fundamentalist itchy Muslims with long beards in very hot countries screaming bloody murder today, but lets not forget that death and destruction in the name of religion is old hat, not to mention people believing stuff written thousands of years ago and insisting its the absolute truth.

I don't for a moment believe that what the Pope said wasn't calculated. You'd be a blithering nitwit to say what he did and leave it open-ended as he did, and not expect a response. Of course, as Jackie Mason says (see above) burning cars and shooting nuns and the like is absurd. But then, a majority of these people in the streets are poorly educated (if at all), brainwashed for much of the part, and hot and itchy (try maintaining a 2 foot beard in a very, very hot country, and you'd be grumpy and nasty too).

As I said several hundred posts ago, the Pope puts his red prada'd foot in his mouth, fanatics scream bloody murder, and the innocent die.


User currently offlineSoyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3097 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What is the nature of apologies, and how much apology is enough?

A single apology, so long as it is heart felt and meant, is and should be enough.

Signed,
Families of victims of IR655.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3094 times:

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 15):
A single apology, so long as it is heart felt and meant, is and should be enough.

Signed,
Families of victims of IR655.

As usual, a half-assed post without telling the entire tale . . .

Here . . . let me help you with your history since your education is obviously lacking.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=36104&st=iran+air&st1=

Prompted by the humanitarian traditions of our nation, the President has decided that the United States will offer compensation on an ex gratia basis to the families of the victims who died in the Iranian airliner incident. Details concerning amounts, timing, and other matters remain to be worked out. It should be clearly understood that payment will go to the families, not governments, and will be subject to the normal U.S. legal requirements, including, if necessary, appropriate action by Congress. In the case of Iran, arrangements will be made through appropriate third parties. This offer of ex gratia compensation is consistent with international practice and is a humanitarian effort to ease the hardship of the families. It is offered on a voluntary basis, not on the basis of any legal liability or obligation.


And . . . .
http://www.answers.com/topic/iran-air-flight-655

On February 22, 1996 the United States agreed to pay Iran US$ 61.8 million in compensation ($300,000 per wage-earning victim, $150,000 per non-wage-earner) for the 248 Iranians killed in the shootdown, but not for the aircraft, which was estimated to be worth approximately US$30 million. This was an agreed settlement to discontinue a case brought by Iran in 1989 against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice.[12] The payment of compensation was explicitly characterised by the US as being on an ex gratia basis, and the U.S. denied having any responsibility or liability for the incident.



Seems an "apology" wasn't all that was given to the vistims families? Of course, you conveniently left that out though, eh?

As tragic as this incident was, the US paid to the victims families likely more $$$ than that family would have earned in a lifetime . . .

Go back to the sidelines Soyuz - you missed the boat, yet again.


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 2):
How much hand wringing and messing about would be saved if,once and for all, the Catholic church (for it was them) came out and said,

The Church's conduct as a whole has already been apologized for years ago. While many catholic priests ran independent sancuaries and escape routes for Jews and others the Nazis were after, the Church itself (at the top) wanted to sit out of it for fear that the Vatican and all the Roman churches in occupied Europe would be invaded and confiscated. John Paul II apologized for this attitude back in the 80's, as I recall.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 5):
ANC, nobody quotes somebody for no reason. If I quoted Adolf Hitler on Jews being sub-human and didn't explain exactly what I meant, what would your impression be?

It depends on the context.

Which brings me to this question. How much of the Pope's speech was broadcast or printed in the Arab press? Did they quote only the offending sentence, or did they quote the whole part of the speech that would explain why he is quoting a 700 year-old text?

Personally, I don't feel any apology was necessary. The Islamic world needs to learn not to be so touchy, as this incident and the Danish Cartoon story clearly demonstrates.


User currently offlineSoyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3080 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
As usual, a half-assed post without telling the entire tale . . .

As usual a half-ass with a half-assed post which tells the truth...but not the truth as you want to see it PMSL.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Here . . . let me help you with your history since your education is obviously lacking.

And thanks for showing me the proof. And it proves what I said.

Big fricking deal. So your govt paid off a few Iranians, but NOT ONCE was the word SORRY ever offered.

Good to see your education system is so half-assed up there in Alaska, that you don't realise that paying off a few families does not equate to apologising. Ask the Iranians, they are still waiting for an apology - an apology they won't get.

So please do continue to make it look like I don't know what I am saying ANC, but the fact is you don't have a clue. Back to the corner with your dunces hat chum.

QuotingGeorge H Bush:
I will never apologize for the United States of America — I don't care what the facts are


PMSL

[Edited 2006-09-20 14:13:40]

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3061 times:

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 18):

Wow, you get drop kicked and come out swinging eh? Glad to see I could get to you so easily. I didn't deny the plane got shot down. I didn't deny it was wrong. I didn't deny it was a tragic event.

All I did was point out your half-assed post that was factually incorrect . . .

Once again . . . before you hurt yourself . . .

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Go back to the sidelines Soyuz - you missed the boat, yet again.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

Only ONE.As long as its from the Heart.Its up to the people recieving the apology to believe.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineRichardnhsv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 473 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

 redflag  The following may be offensive to some  redflag 

C = Christian
IFM = Islamo-Fascist-Muslim

Scenario I
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough
C: I'm sorry
IFM: That's not enough

Scenario II
C: I'm sorry if I offended someone
IFM: (burns in effigy, burns flags, burns churchs, shoots a nun, rioting...)
C: I'm sorry
IFM: (continues with above reaction)
C: I'm sorry
IFM: (continues with first reaction)
C: I'm sorry
IFM: (continues with first reaction)

argumentum ad infinitum et nauseam

Just as an aside, and to clarify (to avoid a possible ban)
All Muslims are not bad and all Christians are not good.

Richard



"If you've ever had a filet this good, welcome back." - Ruth Fertel
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

The only thing that will ever apease the islamofascists is the death of everyone who's not one of them.
They are after all offended by the very existence of people who are not fundamentalist mohammedans.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineSoyuzavia From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2998 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
All I did was point out your half-assed post that was factually incorrect . . .

What's this? World history according to ANCFlyer? Can you tell me where in the fiction section I can find this fascinating read?

That sarcastic comment of mine was dead on the money, so to speak, and was totally factually correct. I would suggest you go back and have a look at what was what.

NO APOLOGY was ever given. The only thing that was ever given was 'a regret of loss of life'. That is no apology. If anything, it's a big f' you, we were right, we are never wrong, and did I mention f' you?

Oh, and in case you were wondering, that little quote from GHB.....he quoted as saying that in relation to IR655 only a matter of weeks after the shooting down.

And that compensation. Was made in 96 under Clinton, and as you can see from the quotes you yourself gave, never once was the word sorry ever used, nor has there ever been an admission that your guys were wrong.

But those responsible did receive medals. Some apology eh?  Yeah sure


User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Unbelievable... another thread to blast and flame both sides of the coin!!! some of you people reeeealllly have nothing to do...hehehehehe

What ever the pope said and however it happened is irrelevant as to the matter that some one or group somehow ...and i have to say they are evil.... leaked the words in a twisted way to cause this uproar.... Sooooo typical...

With all the sensitivity in the world now, anything to be leaked will be extra bonus to create this huge split in the world!!! Are we that blind???? They are all laughing at us now.... Once again they managed to win and create more hate... we are the stupid ones, we are the losers!!!! We will never learn

Keep on flaming and blasting each other... it's exactly what they want as they keep us busy and reap the benefits and become more rich and powerful!!!


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 25, posted (8 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
What is the nature of apologies, and how much apology is enough?

Not pertaining to the subject at hand, though generally, one should be enough, but we are only human. We want back the precieved peace of mind (call it innocence or naivaty, etc) we had before what was said or done, but we cannot. So we take it out of the person(s) who said or did it.

Some people will not accept apology, not as if 'water under the bridge', more as what we say will stand for all time and somehow, even our children are just as responsible.

Some people like to hear others constantly apologize, not that what those say means anything, but hearing them think it does is enough pleasure. That's all it is really; you can prove your sincerity all you like, in reality they want you to suffer for 'wronging' them.

There are others I'm sure, those are ones I've seen from both sides.

Normally I do not trust apologies from anyone. It gives the impression of letting my guard down. But many times people have said sorry and within weeks do/say it again. Thesedays I have to ask what are they sorry for, make them think about it, if they even know. In reality, they are not and should not be sorry for saying/thinking it (it was intended at the time, per their personality), rather they expected me to react differently. They expect me to react as they do -- that is the mistake. If they apologized for that and not repeated it, then they have my trust.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
How Much Is That Cronie In The Window? posted Fri Oct 14 2005 21:30:53 by TedTAce
LHMark Is Getting Married On The 16th Of July! posted Tue Jul 12 2005 17:55:43 by Cumulonimbus
Something Is On The Roof Of My Dorm! posted Thu Feb 17 2005 17:57:47 by Aloha73G
How Much Is/Was Your Tuition? posted Thu Sep 21 2006 15:32:23 by Iamcanadian
How Much Is Airliners.net Worth? posted Fri Aug 18 2006 11:17:34 by Nighthawk
Slavery Still Exists On The Isle Of Man! posted Tue Aug 1 2006 18:52:51 by 9VSPO
Help With T-Mobile. How Much Is Airtime? posted Sat Jul 29 2006 04:47:01 by Luisde8cd
Israel On The Verge Of Entering Gaza posted Wed Jun 28 2006 00:04:03 by RJpieces
So How Much Is Gas Where You Live Now? posted Sat Apr 8 2006 01:53:05 by FlagshipAZ
The Results Of Studying Too Much. posted Fri Jan 27 2006 01:20:31 by Cadet57