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Iraqi Poll: 71% Want US Troops Out  
User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

This is interesting:

71% want US & British troops out,
75% said the troops' presence is causing more violence than preventing
61% approve attacks agains US troops in Iraq

A large majority strongly diapproves of Osama bin Laden, and over half are opposed to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president.

source (in Finnish):

http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/oikea/id44027.html

108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11953 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Hmm, it's almost as if they don't like to be occupied by foreign nations...

Silly Iraqies...

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

Hmmm anyone care to translate to English? Tis a bit late for me to take up Finnish . . . or anyone have a link in German???

User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11953 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Hmmm anyone care to translate to English? Tis a bit late for me to take up Finnish . . . or anyone have a link in German???

I've got one in Ethiopian if you'd like...

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineKieron747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 2):
Hmmm anyone care to translate to English?

Amply three quarter irakilaisista rate Yhdysvaltain force raising underfoot more väkivaltaisuuksia like obstructive them. September ship mill mielipidekyselyn profitable by wholly 61 percent irakilaisista approving stab underfoot behaving amerikkalaisjoukkoja versus. Vastaajista 71 percent desperate Iraq hallituksen having Yhdysvaltain deriving corps indelible maasta season and 37 percent already poland season over. Three quarter irakilaisista credence , that States suunnittelee dependable sotilastukikohtansa underfoot enduring. Again tutkimuksesta appearance , that Iraqi suhtautuvat dead negatiivisesti also terroristijohtaja Instalment bin Ladeniin. Thus age Iran president Mahmoud Ahmadinejadia object past half Iraq nation. Marylandin university teettämään enquiry but 1 150 anthropology. Tutkimuksen virhemarginaali is three prosenttiyksikköä into.

So much for the online Finnish-English Translator!
 sarcastic 

Kieron747


User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11953 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2768 times:

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 4):
deriving corps indelible maasta season and 37 percent already poland season over.

 rotfl 

Quoting Kieron747 (Reply 4):
bin Ladeniin

Wait, I think I know this one... Big grin

Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2753 times:

Quoting Joni (Thread starter):
71% want US & British troops out,
75% said the troops' presence is causing more violence than preventing
61% approve attacks agains US troops in Iraq

If this is how the Iraqis sees it, I don't really care, but just a question... How do you see Iraq if the US and UK pulled out "prematurely"?

If they want them out, well then there is no point in staying, except to prevent further slaughtering.

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Here's an English link with more info:

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi.../250.php?nid=&id=&pnt=250&lb=hmpg1

Quote:
A large majority of Iraqis—71%—say they would like the Iraqi government to ask for US-led forces to be withdrawn from Iraq within a year or less.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting Joni (Reply 7):
Here's an English link with more info:

Excellent - thanks for this . . .

I appreciate the info in the link because rather than the usual blather in a poll, this link provides the details on the questions and the breakdown on the responses to the questions. Excellent.

Interesting to see the Sunni's are the most upset with the US presence. Also falls in line with those credited with most of the in-fighting and violence in Iraq. it should not be a surprise . . . of course they want to US out - so they can eliminate their competition.


Excellent link, excellent article. I'll take some time to digest this - re-read and comment again. Thanks Joni!


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

I'll second the Sgt. Major comments, its no to often where a in depthrnlook at the questions are provided to the reading public in order torndigest the numbers and try to make sense out of all this.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
Interestingrnto see the Sunni's are the most upset with the US presence. Also fallsrnin line with those credited with most of the in-fighting and violencernin Iraq. it should not be a surprise . . . of course they want to USrnout - so they can eliminate their competition.

Thats the American way to eliminate the competition.  box  Seriously if over 90% of the sunni believe the US causes more problems that it solves, I would say that our efforts with them has been less than successful, and I would doubtnthe future of Iraq after the allies leave would be bright.


User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

So for anyone who's keeping track of Iraq War record.

WMD? No
Ties to 9/11? No
Meaningful support to World terrorism? No
Increased the terrorism threat? Yes
Increased the number of Iraqi deaths? Yes
Made life for Iraqi children more perilous? Yes
Use of torture in Iraq increased from Saddam days? Yes
Started a civil war? Yes
Killed over 2500 US soldiers and countless Iraqi innocent? Yes.
Cost to the US 400 Billion and counting.
US gained respect in World opinion? No, it was lost.
Created a situation where most Iraqi's approve of attacks on US? Yes 61%.
Increase Iran's influence in the Middle East? Yes.

In fairness,

Saddam deposed.
Elections held for Government that must stay within Green Zone for protection.
And can't forget about the schools. The right wingers love to talk about the schools.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

A most interesting poll. It clearly suggests that the Sunni are the odd men out. Not surprising, really. They lost their grip on power.

Federal Republic of Iraq, anyone?


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2671 times:
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In IHMO, thing out there would get worse if the US troops would leave. I never approved of the idea for them going in anyways but now its too late to bail.

I wonder what would happen if the US said:

"You know folks, we screwed up.. We are sorry" and give control and command to an international force (UN?, NATO?).

How would the Iraquies feel about that?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 10):

Care to add something quantitative to the subject matter of the thread or just present more inane blather. Your post is wholly irrelevent to the thread subject - which is a poll about what the Iraqi people think . . .

Thanks for the statistics however . . . even though they're subjective  redflag  opinion for the most part . . . even laughable in some cases.


User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
In IHMO, thing out there would get worse if the US troops would leave. I never approved of the idea for them going in anyways but now its too late to bail.

I wonder what would happen if the US said:

"You know folks, we screwed up.. We are sorry" and give control and command to an international force (UN?, NATO?).

How would the Iraquies feel about that?

Busybodies and officious intermeddlers take notice. Iraq is what happens when you butt in where you don't belong.

So we removed the normative force (the kleptocrats of Ba'athism)that was keeping the Sunnis and the Shias from each other's throats and the Kurds from their aspirations to nationhood, and now we're holding each of them by their collars knowing that if we let go of any of them there'll be real hell to pay....it's as bad as Algeria was for the French.


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2330 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
In IHMO, thing out there would get worse if the US troops would leave. I never approved of the idea for them going in anyways but now its too late to bail.

I wonder what would happen if the US said:

"You know folks, we screwed up.. We are sorry" and give control and command to an international force (UN?, NATO?).

How would the Iraquies feel about that?

I agree with your first bit there.
About the handing over to the UN... Well it would be a disaster, remember the bombing of the UN installation in Iraq? The UN is unable to defend itself in the face of such ongoing attacks.

Boaz.



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Ha! LOL sure ANC.. I'm not taking the bait.

You're welcome to refute any of my points. But you didn't. And I'll take that as your answer.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 16):
I'm not taking the bait.

I'm not asking you to take any bait . . . I'm asking you to make comments relevent to the thread topic . . . the Iraqi poll.

It's one of the best damn polls - and explanations of questions and results - I've ever seen posted here. CNN, BNC, BBC, all of 'em, could take lessons here.

Do you have any points to make about the subject of the thread? You have an opinion about everything else . . .

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 12):
"You know folks, we screwed up.. We are sorry" and give control and command to an international force (UN?, NATO?).

No difference. Levels of violence would continue unabated. You don't really think the UN is going to anything do you???

The Sunni's aren't the fair haired child in Iraq anylonger and they have their panties in a wad. Read teh results from the poll - and not the big picture results - rather the nitty gritty details. It's pretty evidenct the Sunni's are the issue and the negative driving force.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2637 times:
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Quoting Windshear (Reply 15):
UN... Well it would be a disaster, remember the bombing of the UN installation in Iraq? The UN is unable to defend itself in the face of such ongoing attacks.

But who else though? Maybe this is also a good time for strenghened UN?

But the whoel point is that you have to get rid of this idea that ONE country is in charge and in control.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

See how spin can affect reception?

Another way of reading the data:

63% or Iraqis DO NOT want the U.S. to withdraw immediately.

29% want the US to stay until the security situation improves, and think it will take at least 2 years.

34% Think that iraqi security forces can begin to deal with the problem within 6 months and 2 years, and THEN the US should be asked to leave.

Only 37% Want the US to leave in the immediate future (within 6 months). Most of these guys are the xenophobic assholes who want to create a Shia-dominated dictatorship (like Sadr) or reinstall a Sunni dictatorship.

For the first time, just over 50% belive the Iraq security forces can handle things. This corresponds nicely with the feelings about when the US should leave.

As far as provoking violence, I'm sure you can say the same thing about England in 1942. If England had given up in 1940, there would certainly have been fewer deaths and less violence in 1942. The whole argument is idiotic, because of course if you are going to fight an enemy, they will fight back.

As far as approval of attacks on US troops is concerned, it is interesting, because it does not correspond with the other data. It would be interesting to find out how exactly the question was worded.


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2634 times:
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Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
No difference. Levels of violence would continue unabated. You don't really think the UN is going to anything do you???

Again - it would dispell the image the US is in control..

And seriouly, what is the US doing? How much worse can it get?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

We have confirmed reports from our own intelligence services that the Iraq war is making things worse. It is increasing the terrorism threat.

Of course if we pull out there will be more blood shed in the short term. But staying makes things worse in the long term. The damage has been done folks. There is no turning back the clock. The right wingers got us caught up in a War we have already lost. Bush is not willing to commit the amount of troops needed to secure the Country. US public opinion will not stand for the amount of sacrifice needed either.

Pull out in an orderly measured fashion to bases located in or near the Middle East as competent military experts have suggested. Iraq must be left to Iraqis.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting Joni (Thread starter):
61% approve attacks agains US troops in Iraq

Well why don't they f*cking come and do it!!!! Shoot at us god damn it! The truth is, they're no longer primarily targeting allied troops. They're going insane and killing each other.

Everytime they engage us, we kick their asses up, down, and side to side. So they don't come after us anymore. They spend their time just killing each other.

----------------


So here's a new poll for all of you:

99% of American troops think Iraq is an immature nation that has little to no respect for women, the rule of law, fairness, cooperation and the value of peace.

So they want us to leave, eh? Probably because we're the only things keeping them from going totally ape shit and killing every living thing. NO RESPECT FOR LIFE.

Today a local shop was bombed.... not because the shop was sympathetic to the Americans... but because the owner of the shop was a Sunni, and the bomber was a Shiite. YEAH!!!! WOOO-HOOO! That's a f*cking brilliant reason to kill 7 individuals - they're not your RELIGION!  Yeah sure

I can just hear the guy who bombed the joint, "YEAH! LETS KILL THE BASTARDS!!! He's a Sunni. I'm a Shiite! Hey that's a good enough reason for me! What's that you say? There are innocent people shopping inside that store? Eh... who cares!! Life is cheap! Hey Abu, pass me some of that Haji wine, I wanna get good and drunk for this!"

Oh and don't think that just because this is a Muslim nation, people don't drink ALKY-HALL! Oh no no no my friends, let me tell you - they drink it by the gallons! Apparently even though it's forbidden by their religion (hey, doesn't that same religion say a thing or two about how murder is also wrong  scratchchin  ), it doesn't stop them from pounding it. Drunk driving in Iraq? "No UH60, you're wrong, there is no drunk driving in Iraq. It's a Muslim nation." Yeah... and I suppose those Iraqis are swerving all over the road and crashinginto things because of poor eye sight, not because they're under the influence of alcohol! But hey... that's not MY problem. Iraq can take of itself.

Yeah... so sure, we'll leave. And we can watch from afar as this country goes totally insane and turns into an Iraqi version of Woodstock. (except instead of sex, drugs and rock&roll... they'll have murder, alcohol and blaring prayer music from minarets. Sounds like a jolly good show. Who's bringing the popcorn?)

-UH60

PS: And if any of you are wondering why I am off my rocker today... well I just saw two dead Iraqi children a few hours ago. But hey... Iraq can take care of itself.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2623 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 22):
Well why don't they f*cking come and do it!!!! Shoot at us god damn it! The truth is, they're no longer primarily targeting allied troops. They're going insane and killing each other.

Everytime they engage us, we kick their asses up, down, and side to side. So they don't come after us anymore. They spend their time just killing each other.

Really? Well the facts show otherwise. Coalition deaths in September are up to 2.57 per day. The highest in 5 Months. And on average higher the the overall average casualty rate.

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/


User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 23):
Really? Well the facts show otherwise. Coalition deaths in September are up to 2.57 per day. The highest in 5 Months. And on average higher the the overall average casualty rate.

If you have never been there and get your facts from the NYTimes,WASH Post, or the Boston Globe. Have you ever noticed when they go after a GI they usally take out ahole lot civilians also. Ill go with what UH60 observes than the facts you read.



I would help you but it is not in the contract
25 Post contains images AndesSMF : Doubt you'd be happy if more troops were added. And if I am not mistaken, they have in the last few months. Shocking surprise, Artie. There is still
26 ArtieFufkin : You just can't believe your lying eyes. Here is the DOD list so far in Sept. All fatalities with active DOD links have been confirmed by The Departmen
27 Venus6971 : They can try to invade Kurdistan, but if you think the US got a bloddy nose just wait until Turkey or Iran try. Don't think the U.S. will leave the K
28 Post contains links and images Cfalk : You could let the UN take charge. Don't you love irony? A couple of years ago, people accused the Bush administration of cherry-picking intelligence,
29 UH60FtRucker : Yeah, and I have a friend on that list. Go back to one my archieved posts, and read about how I had the honor of being one of the men who carried his
30 ArtieFufkin : So what is the story behind the increase in US soldiers deaths this Month?
31 UH60FtRucker : ...Are you reading the entire post, or just bits and pieces? Please read: I don't know how that wasn't clear for you, but I will try and lower it to
32 ArtieFufkin : Spin how you like, the increased deaths are by enemy bombs. Not bullets or IEDS....Whooppeee! . Leaks are coming out today on this new NIE report that
33 ME AVN FAN : NO, the odd men out clearly are the Kurds as being the only ones in favour of the occupation. While the Arab majority just differs in extent and perc
34 Cfalk : The Soviets suffered their highest casualty rates of WWII in April 1945, just a week or two before the end of the war. They lost over 400,000 troops
35 AndesSMF : I could just imagine going back into the 40s, and hearing our friend Artie complaining about the fact that the US was going to loose the war in the P
36 ME AVN FAN : A strange question, as you of course know quite well that towards the end of a conflict, military commanders launch last minute efforts to achieve th
37 JetJock22 : You really believe what Bob Woodward has to say? The man blinks all the time like a left hand turn signal. He's about as far left leaning as a report
38 ArtieFufkin : And this is why the White House gave him exclusive access to the President in order for him to write a biographical account of Bush during wartime? A
39 ArtieFufkin : Lot of this cognitive dissonance running rampant on these boards..LOL if someone is called upon to learn something which contradicts what they already
40 Cfalk : ME, you normally make more sense than that. You mean to say that Generals say to themselves, "Oh shit, the end of the war is coming and I still have
41 JetJock22 : Uh, this is the point ANC and several others made about 25 posts ago.
42 ME AVN FAN : Yes, Generals want to get as much as possible before they have to stop. It is their business. It is NOT only those "closer to defeating the enemy" bu
43 ArtieFufkin : Well at least you're honest with your opinions. I only hope the GOP leadership agrees with you and will share the vision with the US public before th
44 Post contains links and images UH60FtRucker : Accept it? Dude... I am living it. Ohh kind of like how when one is present with first hand accounts of how Iraqis are shifting their focus on killin
45 Dougloid : I do not think you're reading it correctly, what I was pointing to was the fact that the Sunni are in the main not sanguine at all as to the long ter
46 ArtieFufkin : UH60 I hope I don't come off as not respecting what you do. I was in helicopter unit myself. I just think war is very serious and it's not the time to
47 ME AVN FAN : Well, they know that it, after the withdrawal of the occupationers, will be a Sunni general who will take over.
48 AndesSMF : I somewhat agree with this. There has been a slow growing movement that has as its main purpose the creation of a world wide Islamic state. Non-musli
49 Post contains images Windshear : Horrible to hear! All these things you witness corresponds well with what my father and uncle witnessed in wars with Arabs, apparently this is the wa
50 Post contains links Cfalk : Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 42): but in YOUR case we have THE fact that losses DO increase towards the end of conflicts, and so have to try to find the
51 Mt99 : Would that describe the US goverment? Didnt the UN asked for 1 or 2 more weeks of inspections before the attacks began?
52 Cfalk : The US troops could not wait that long. The military campaign was anticipated to take a certain number of weeks (it was actually done faster, but the
53 Dougloid : Yes, quite possibly so, and I expect his term in office will be measured in minutes.
54 Mt99 : How could it have been more "wisely"? Their task was to keep WMD out of Saddams hands right? Obiusly that worked.. or has any been found since?
55 DrDeke : I like to explain it to conservatives in the following manner: Say you were living your life in America back in the 1990s while Clinton was President
56 Mt99 : Clinton was voted in.. Saddam was not... Clinton was the "will of the people", just like Bush is. Tehe US had institutions inplace to change who is i
57 AGM100 : Its a valid Point Cfalk, especially when many of our countrymen are convinced we are the evil doers. We accept it in reverence and respect and in my
58 Mt99 : I am greatefull when i ASK for help and i recieve it. Did the Iraqis send a letter to Bush: "Please help us" My mother was staying w me for a few day
59 DrDeke : I realize that the situations are very different but I don't think the comparison is off-base at all when it comes to what the public reaction has be
60 Post contains images AGM100 : OMFG it will never end Ya get angry at your Mom for a gesture of thoughtfullness. Then maybe she will spank you ...
61 Post contains images AndesSMF : Complain when we didnt answer their request for help in 1991, complain when we helped in 2003.
62 Mt99 : Iraq asked for help in 1991? Nope. It wont... Deal.
63 Cfalk : The Kurds and the Shia did. Obviously the Sunnis did not. It was the reason for the no-fly zones in the north and south, so that Saddam would not be
64 AGM100 : Deal what...? Iraq will be stable prosperous and peaceful eventually . Unless your hopes are for something different just to prove President Bush wro
65 DavestanKSAN : You may respect UH, but it is crazy to argue based on published material while UH is in Iraq seeing things with his own eyes. Don't you think his opi
66 Dougloid : I think it'd be more like the British getting involved in our Civil War to a greater extent than they did. Imagine how that would have gone over. No,
67 Post contains images Cfalk : You seem to be under the impression that Iraq was a democracy, and that the Iraqi people could just get rid of him if they wanted. These fellows belo
68 AndesSMF : That is what bothers me. Whether the decision to invade Iraq was wrong, we are there. The Western world should get together to make Iraq work (i.e. r
69 ME AVN FAN : ehmmmm......., not really, and NOT my business really to find them correct, no doubt whenever realising the problem from the US point-of-view, my con
70 Dougloid : Not sure I agree with that but I am quite sure we're going to find out in a reasonably short period of time geologically speaking. I think the Sunnis
71 Baroque : Point one is that even this summary seems to be disputed. Would an opponent of the AF list care to summarize it for us? Point two, that seems to be t
72 ME AVN FAN : no, I think that Baghdad in case of a kind of "division" will stay Sunni, and also Mossul and Kirkut will stay Sunni, but Kurdistan will drop out of
73 Dougloid : Well, that's what makes for horse races and lawsuits. I am not nearly as sanguine as you are about the ability of secularists in the middle east to r
74 ME AVN FAN : while in reality, secularists are on top in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. The fundamentalists started to get vi
75 AndesSMF : I didn't, you missed this part.
76 Post contains links Mt99 : Bush: Criticism dovetails with 'enemy propaganda' Bush: At one point, however, he said, "Iraq is not the reason the terrorists are at war against us."
77 Cfalk : Why exactly is it dribble? This is certainly true. We've only been in Iraq for 3 years, and we've had problems with Islamofascists for 30 years. Deba
78 Post contains links PPVRA : Regarding U.S. casualties, the following is an interesting link: http://www.icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx Shows how it fluctuates and proves UH60'
79 Mt99 : How can you say its not dribble, if you ask what dribble is? Ill do some reasearch about Salafism - but they are against Freedom you say? How come th
80 Post contains links AndesSMF : Malaysia? Thailand? Spain? Argentina? France? Did not Germany just uncover an attempted attack on their country. http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news
81 ME AVN FAN : they are, by their program, in favour of a strictly pulled through, most restrictive Islam. Which means that they want to stop ANY consumption of alc
82 Baroque : Sorry, I think I did miss that, probably a red mist appeared with the earlier bit!! (Joking) However, in some ways it was a good miss, because the po
83 Klaus : Absolutely!!
84 ME AVN FAN : I mean, exchanging views with people you agree with is not REAL discussion. Real discussion and debate is to exchange views with people you DISagree
85 Dougloid : mere window dressing, my good fellow, window dressing. The real action's in the back room of the mosque. The question is not if Uncle sugar will leav
86 Zippyjet : We 71% can grouse all we want but, hey be careful for what you wish for because you got it baby...Meaning the folks who were snookered into voting for
87 ME AVN FAN : simply rubbish. Wild conspiracy theories of no substance. Those in "the back room of the mosque" would NOT accept secularist politics and secularist
88 Joni : Were you involved in conducting the poll, since you appear to have such intimate knowledge of this particular group? One would assume these are the m
89 Cfalk : I would get rather upset at this, but then I see you answered the charge for yourself: I hope that stills any further comparisons between the US and
90 Mandala499 : OMFG! For once in my life, I think Cfalk (R#19) and AndesSMF (R#25) are talking sense! (just kidding)... I may disagree to our two participants mentio
91 Baroque : Yes, that was a good post Mandala as was your latest. On the face of it, the argument that the US (and the UK and Aus) have to stay in Iraq is attrac
92 ME AVN FAN : What originally was the liberation from a tyrant, by that continued domination has simply turned into a straight occupation and therefore needs to be
93 Baroque : Well, it is a bit worse than an occupation because whatever it really is (and other than UH60 et al, we don't know what it is, but anyway we would al
94 Mandala499 : Baroque, It really is a catch 22 for the US in Iraq when it comes to staying put or withdraw. The solution is to work on a way out that provides the l
95 Baroque : Unfortunately true and of course the Catch 22 reference you made Mandala is all too redolent of the current problem. As you indicate, there needs to
96 Thomson735 : well, if the US leaves then the place will get really Shite, a Civil war will break out, and terrorists will attempt to take over the country resultin
97 Baroque : And that will be different from what is happening now? Iraqi deaths are running at about 1200 to 1500 a month over the last three months. Dismantling
98 Mandala499 : Thomson735, A dictatorship is STILL A GOVERNMENT and a SOVEREIGN one whether you agree with it or not. By removing Saddam, the US took on the responsi
99 Thomson735 : well if everybody wants America out of there so badly then maybe they shud, just say ahh ok well let u nutters get on with it and leave yous, Still if
100 Cfalk : Not necessarily. If you would recall, Iraq made its sovereignty conditional by signing the cease-fire in 1991, and then gave up its sovereignty by no
101 AndesSMF : Then you will have people complain how the administration shirked its responsibility by leaving Iraq. The problem with leaving Iraq is manyfold. The
102 Baroque : Oooh! Interesting argument. If you went back to whatsisname who signed that agreement for the US, I feel he might say that they did not make any cond
103 ME AVN FAN : not really. The main "piece-de-resistance" will be gone first of all, and second, an ambitious army general will take over and establish order and se
104 AGM100 : MAF ... Do you really think that this would happen ? I am now of the mind that a US pull out is inevitable. But of course the question becomes , how
105 ME AVN FAN : A) I am NOT a clairvoyant, and so cannot be really sure about anything - B) YOU regard the "coalition forces" or rather "occupation forces" as a "sta
106 Baroque : That is indeed the main argument for removing the coalition forces - overall, they make the situation worse not better. If they do withdraw, Iran and
107 Post contains images MCIGuy : I'm just about to the point where I say we go isolationist again. No more help from the US of ANY kind. This goes for small nations bordering Russia t
108 ME AVN FAN : Most regrettable, but what can we do when a superpower decides to retreat "let them" ? > who voluntarily retreated from Saxonia and Thuringia in 1945
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