Make no apologies for the use of “Islamic fascism.” It is the perfect nomenclature for the agenda of radical Islam, for a variety of historical and scholarly reasons. That such usage also causes extreme embarrassment to both the Islamists themselves and their leftist “anti-fascist” appeasers in the West is just too bad.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 20514 posts, RR: 56 Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1885 times:
I'm of the opinion that when pretty much everybody knows how bad something is, arguing over the perfect words to describe it is generally a waste of time. Islamic extremism, Islamic fascism, Islamic terrorism, Islamic anti-Westernism, whatever. Hell, all you have to say these days is "Islamic" and people pretty much know what you're talking about (which is in itself a pretty sad thing, but that's another topic).
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1841 times:
The term Islamic fascism is old hat.
Its been used now for over 20 years, and it rings true. Especially in that Islamic fascism exporting nation, Saudi Arabia.
The repulsive and pathetic President suddenly adopted it a month or so ago, (late as he is to anything that rings true), and suddenly his detractors who can find 1,000,001 things to criticize him over, and who themselves have used that term, now find it unacceptable. Idiots, all of them.
Clearly his handlers shoved that term into his limited vocabulary of late. Clever diversionary tactic. Now, his dimwitted followers who have made themselves blind to all his other dangerous tantrums and lying have suddenly discovered that term as well. And the guileless and short-sighted bleating goats on the left will now take them on in a battle of syntax. And while all of this happens, the victorious Islamo-fascists laugh at the intemperate Dauphin and his baby-sitters in the White House as they continue to lie, deceive, obfuscate and trample on the rule of law that made this country great.
EK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1818 times:
MAF why do you even attempt to answer these kind of threads??? Falcon, ANCFlyer, RJpieces and the others are convinced 1 Billion percent that we are ALL... and in all I mean EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM ON EARTH ... we are all terrorists, fascist, killers, haters etc.. Why do you give them any attention mate? Look else where to people who will have a constructive conversation with you.
In the last month this lot that I have mentioned have only been started threads to flame, blast and cause more hatred towards the whole Islamic Religion. They are convinced that if you are a Muslim then you are a terrorist. And if you say that you are not a terrorist, then you are not a Muslim.... and when you try to defend or argue against the notion that all Muslims are not like those few fanatics, they will not listen to you or will tell you "So do something about it" or whatever it is that they want to say.
They don't want peace... they just want to hate us all and show the world that we are bad in every single thing. They will tell you we want peace... and then they say... we should be exterminated, banished from earth and so on...
I as a muslim would rather have a Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or whatever friends that can work with me, be good to each other, respect each other and understand that we are all being made to hate each other because of the agenda of a few greedy people.... I will not let these greedy people make me fall into arguing with ignorant poeple who have beed braishwashed by them whatever religion they follow and firstly with my fellow Muslims... I will argue with them first and for most ... to make them understand that we are being divided to be conquered... all of us Muslims, Jews, Christans and others are being divided to keep us busy fighting against each other... for the other greedy few to reap the fruits of the earth... when will the people wake up?
You guys really need to find something else to talk about... for the last couple of months... all you do is start the same thread with different names... tells me alot about what your intentions are.... soon you will be talking to the walls cause you are stirring hatred like others around you are .... so when you say you are better than those Muslims Clerics or Extremists who call for the end of whatever .... you are no better than them!!!
it may fit in many ways, but is NOT accurate. As fascism in reality is not just a state-of-mind but an ideology (Benito Mussolini in Italy, Francisco Franco in Spain, Antonio Salazar in Portugal. It later on became a term to describe any authoritarian right-winger as a fascist. Rather a kind of fashion.
The Islamist fundamentalists of course ARE authoritarian, right-wing conservatives of zero-tolerance and an extremely narrow-minded point-of-view.
Islamo-fundies would rather be my term.
MDorBust From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1814 times:
Quoting EK156 (Reply 11): Falcon, ANCFlyer, RJpieces and the others are convinced 1 Billion percent that we are ALL... and in all I mean EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM ON EARTH ... we are all terrorists, fascist, killers, haters etc..
If we were convinced of that, we would have already taken steps to kill all of you.
Quoting EK156 (Reply 11): . They are convinced that if you are a Muslim then you are a terrorist. And if you say that you are not a terrorist, then you are not a Muslim....
I would love to see you quote that from one of those members.
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1802 times:
Quoting EK156 (Reply 11): MAF why do you even attempt to answer these kind of threads??? Falcon, ANCFlyer, RJpieces and the others are convinced 1 Billion percent that we are ALL... and in all I mean EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM ON EARTH ... we are all terrorists, fascist, killers, haters etc.. Why do you give them any attention mate? Look else where to people who will have a constructive conversation with you.
I think you need to talk to someone about your persecution complex.
Islam is what motivates most of these terrorists. They fight because they feel that (make your choice) the presence of infidels in muslim lands is an affront to Allah, that all former muslim lands must be restored, to spread the word of Allah by the sword, that Allah will reward him for killing infidels, etc. etc. whatever. Those are their motivations. They are related to the Islamic faith, regardless of whether or not they are misinterpreting the Quran or not.
In the middle ages we had the Crusades - the name itself relates to the Cross of Jesus, even though Jesus' teachings had nothing to do with their butchery, Chistianity was their motivation.
The longer you deny the fact that Islam in some form is the motivator behind these terrorists, the longer it will be before your culture does something to address the problem.
Christianity did eventually - it was called the Reformation. It was bloody and dirty but it had to be done. Through the Reformation, Christians started to face what had gone wrong, and take steps to change things. The process took a couple of hundred years, but as a result, we don't have thousands of Christians demanding the death of anyone simply they are not like them anymore.
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13877 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1794 times:
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 14): Joseph Stalin, Mao Tsetung, Adolf Hitler and Kim Il Sung were hardly right wingers, but decidedly fascist.
Stalin, Mao and Kim were NOT fascists but communists. As totalitarian as the Fascists, but LEFT-wingers. The "Nazism" of the NSDAP in Germany was a kind of extreme "derivative" of fascism. Fascism and communism may have much in common, but simply are not only not the same, but on two opposite ends.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1786 times:
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 14): I object to the idea of fascists being associated with "right wing" however. Joseph Stalin, Mao Tsetung, Adolf Hitler and Kim Il Sung were hardly right wingers, but decidedly fascist.
Kim Il Jong, Stalin and Mao adopted communist economic ideologies, but their brand of fascism is synonymous with the "right wing," a term that symbolizes absolute authority. Can anyone doubt that Franco was a right winger? Can anyone doubt that Mussolini and Hitler both of whom opposed liberalism, democracy and pluralism were right wingers? Communism in its inception symbolized "leftist" economic ideologies, but like every other institution of absolute authority was a right wing authoritarian one.
In the words of Mussolini himself:
Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the "right", a Fascist century.
Fascism in Europe allied itself with mainstream elites - the Church, large industrial houses (in 1930s Germany, for instance) - who used fascism to further their own brands of conservatism, either religious, or nationalist, or economic.
Bringing the far East with its Confucian and entirely different social traditions into an understanding of Western Fascism is dishonest. Fascism in the West, especially in the war years and the post WWII era has decidedly been a right wing cause.
While I see your point, you're making the classic mistake of associating fascism and communism with the "left wing" politics of today. Other than the meaningless rants of those 21 year old tatooed and pierced anti World Bank kids of Bankers themselves out on some youthful angst-driven kick, the connection between anti-capitalism and the left has been decimated a long time ago. With the taming of robber-baron capitalism of the turn of the last century, the so-called left (at least in the United States) has made its peace with capitalism, and the politics of right and left, fascism and democracy have moved onto a different playing field.
The fascists of today - the Islamo-fascists, the Christo-fascists, all have one objective - absolute adherence to religious authority, a deep hatred of modernity, democracy, critical thought. The Christo-fascists have cleverly embraced superficial talk of the free market and nationalism as a veil to hide their ulterior motives, while the Islamo-fascists have embraced all the prevailing problems of their cultures (poverty, absolute monarchies, etc.) to further their own hideous agenda.
Fascism is just a form of absolute control in the Executive branch of government (often the only branch in most fascist states), the antithesis of democracy, gutting of the judiciary, the exploitation of the power of the mob. Economic modes were just a means to an end.
ArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1784 times:
Sure go ahead and use the term. Bush obvioulsy doesn't care that it's offensive to Muslims all over the World? I mean let's not kid ourselves. We don't need the majority of Islamic World opinion on our side do we? We'll just fight a world wide terrorist movement by ourselves. I mean look how well Iraq is doing? Look at the report that came out last week showing how well Bush's war has done in defeating Terrorism? The important issue is that it makes the Bush base feel good so they'll vote for the GOP in November.
Yes use the term. You're so serious about winning the War on Terror. That's really going to help....LOL
ArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1773 times:
I just trying to figure out what's being accomplished here by using the term?
Is saying the "truth" as you define it. "Islamic facists" Is this going to drive home the point to the US public so much so that the tide turns and they support a full scale escalation of the military campaign? We've got 140K troops there now. We probably need triple that to bring it under control.
Or will it drive a wedge between peaceful Muslims and the radicals?
Seriously what does Bush hope to accomplish by using the term?
ArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1766 times:
Well US actions are 95% of the problem. But if we had a true leader in charge every speech he made should make clear that most Muslims all over the World are peace loving. Only a small percentage are radicals. "Islomofascism" is taken by the majority of Muslims as a smear. Is that what you are trying to accomplish? Piss them all off? You think you are going to turn the tide of public opinion saying that?
Ahhhh... I see said the blind man as he pissed into the wind. It's all coming back to me.
Thanks, Artie. I had forgotten it almost entirely our fault. Jeez... we gotta do something about that!
Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 21): every speech he made should make clear that most Muslims all over the World are peace loving.
But that's all I freakin hear coming out of Washington. "The religion of Islam is a peaceful one." "Islam teaching have been bastardized by Al Qaeda." "Islam is peaceful." "Islam is great." blah blah blah. I seriously don't know how you've missed this.
Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 21): "Islomofascism" is taken by the majority of Muslims as a smear.
Ehhh... but so is "white devil" and "infidel". Oh and let me tell you... whenever I hear those terms, my first reaction is to bomb a middle eastern embassy or go kill some people. It's cathartic, ya know?
But seriously Artie, I asked you what term you would prefer we use. But you skirted the question. WHAT TERM WOULD YOU USE?