EK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 706 posts, RR: 2 Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 470 times:
I wonder how humans will cope if tomorrow it was decided that all religions will cease to exist!!! Will all wars and differences end? Will all the people stop stereotyping and start looking at a human within his or her deeds?
Will the extremists have no more excuses? Will there be Chaos like in the old ages? Will capitalism become the one religion people know? Will there be democracy all over? Will borders cease to exist?
I really wonder if our world can actually survive the notion of having no religions existing? Just curious.....
What's an extremist? Someone who attacks animal testing labs doesn't necessarily act out of religious conviction.
No excuses? There'll still be excuses that aren't based on religion. Having your land occupied by other people will probably be the commonest. Said people might have different religious affiliations (before there were no more religions), but religion isn't necessarily the primary issue, it's occupation.
You could argue that some of the more violent soccer fans who go out looking for fights with oppositon fans are extremists. No religion there.
Man City p3 w3 d0 l0 f4 a0 P9 - hey it may never happen again!
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 2881 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 423 times:
Quoting EK156 (Thread starter): I wonder how humans will cope if tomorrow it was decided that all religions will cease to exist!!! Will all wars and differences end? Will all the
The person or the group of persons making that decision would be the dictators ruling such a world. The North Korea of today would be paradise and heaven in one compared to the World that would be if only one had to decide.
John Lennon may not have thought the lyrics of his song to the end, but it is the hymn of Communism and that is really not something desirable.
The livable world is the world of pluralistic societies where religions can exist side by side, not calling the followers of another religion "infidels" and not trying to spread their version of the book with the sword.
The livable world is the world where relkigion is a matter of privacy and not a matter of group pressure, the livable world is a world of tolerance and compassion.
A world without religion would not be a livable world.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 10162 posts, RR: 70 Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 417 times:
One thing to get out of the way, is the idea that horrors such as Fascism, Nazism, Soviet, Chinese (Maoist) and sundry other versions of communism, are examples of atheism gone mad.
I see them as modern, mainly industrial age, religions.
We don't see this yet since their origins and consequences are still too recent. Marxism for example, with it's 19th Century origins, is yesterday compared to most established religions.
Before I get flamed on this, consider, did Marx or Engels ever forsee what would, in the following century, be done in their name?
I doubt it, had they, they'd likely not have bothered.
The negative aspects of religions, as we at least in the West see it, are due to extreme, distorted versions of established faiths, and not only Islam either.
Think of the almost god like icons of Soviet Russia, those huge images, everywhere, of Marx, of Lenin, then Stalin.
The doctrines, the articles of faith, the desire to have a hand in just about every aspect of the lives of those living under it.
There was, at least in the German Nazi Party, a link back to Paganism, they were not short of icons either, though in their short history, this tended towards just one, still living, until the 30th April 1945 that is.
I see Nazism as a latter day extreme crusade, Hitler himself saw it that way, he even indulged Himmler in his hopeless, obssessed, search for links back to an imagined, spritual past.
He had his SS castle as a cathederal, Hitler had his post war plans of Great Halls etc in Berlin, Numemburg Stadium being a stand in.
If this all seems a stretch, do not forget that we in the West, are living with post enlightenment Christanity, not under Middle Ages Papal or other 'godly' jackboots.
Long past is the era of real political power from the church.
But that was not always the case, not for much of Christian history.
Not that Nazism/Facism of any kind is capable of 'englightenment', it was too vile, too extreme, luckily, too short lived.
But Marx?
We all in the West live in Capitalist democracies, but even in the US, the hand of the state in certain aspects of welfare for the poorest, is way beyond what Marx saw in 19th Century industrial age Britain.
Which was none whatsoever.
And that was what inspired him in the first place.
If that wasnt sarcasm (not thinking properly today ) an extremist is a "nicer" word for terrorist as they go to extremes to achieve there goals.
The world would be better in my opinion but alot more people would be depressed as people need something to believe as some cant just simply believe life is the only thing there is.
Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
Banco From United Kingdom (England), joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 56 Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 415 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 5): Before I get flamed on this, consider, did Marx or Engels ever forsee what would, in the following century, be done in their name?
I doubt it, had they, they'd likely not have bothered.
Certainly. For one thing, Marx never envisaged a country like Russia adopting (in name anyway, in reality they never did) his ethos; he viewed the country most likely to move towards a revolution as Britain, the leading power of the age.
The view that Marxism is fundamentally evil is entirely wrong; Marx never remotely advocated the kind of totalitarian state that resulted.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
QR332 From Jordan, joined Apr 2004, 2685 posts, RR: 51 Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 404 times:
I personally think that it is very narrow-minded to blame all conflicts and problems in the world on religion - it is human nature to fight, and if it wasn't over religion people would fight over land, resources, power, etc. Lets not forget that Stalin, who was arguably the 20th century's most brutal dictator, did not have any religious beliefs.
Even what might appear to be conflicts fueled by religion today are not; the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, for example, is a purely political issue.
Religion has done the world a lot of good, it has moved the world forward and it has given us morals that we would not have without it - it guides billions of people and is by no means evil or the root of evil. The most recent dictator which was evidence of this is Saddam, who prayed every now and then for PR but was secular; he still persecuted the Kurds and Shi'aas not because of their beliefs, but because of power.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
TedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 363 times:
Quoting EK156 (Thread starter): Will all wars and differences end? Will all the people stop stereotyping and start looking at a human within his or her deeds?
No, and No
Quoting EK156 (Thread starter): I really wonder if our world can actually survive the notion of having no religions existing?
EVENTUALLY.
As much as I like the idea of abolishing religion, there are several problems, not the least of which is telling people to stop believing what they were taught since birth. The next problem is that the apparent immediacy of your proposal will never work with PEOPLE. People en mass can't deal with change, they like to know that a+b=c and they don't want to complicate it. The next problem is people aren't just going to up and forget history. Even if all the Palistinians and Jews rebuked their religions tomorrow they will never forget as a people the things they have done to eachother in the past.
If we don't blow eachother to hell and nothing like an asteroid or what not ends us in the interim, it's entirely possible that religion as we know it will be delegated to a VERY small minority within the next 1,100 years. I'm not optimistic we will make it that long, but if we do I think the evidence will be overwhelming that religion is .
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 2881 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 351 times:
Quoting GDB (Reply 5): One thing to get out of the way, is the idea that horrors such as Fascism, Nazism, Soviet, Chinese (Maoist) and sundry other versions of communism, are examples of atheism gone mad.
I see them as modern, mainly industrial age, religions.
We don't see this yet since their origins and consequences are still too recent. Marxism for example, with it's 19th Century origins, is yesterday compared to most established religions.
You are exactly right with what you are saying. It does not matter what it is called, Fascism, Nazism, Communism, they are all pseudo religions which can exist only without competition.
Such societies can never be pluralistic. It is only logic, that a world without religion would be ruled by a pseudo religion, whatever it may be called.
Communism had the vision of world rule, it failed because failure is a build in part of the ideology, all people are NOT equal and most are not so stupid to work when others do nothing but have the same benefits. Marxism, Communism can only be brought upon mankind by force. That is where it eventually fails, besides that it takes imagination away and a communist society does not have entreprenours who carry the cart.
Let there be as many religions as people can dream of and want to follow but never have a religion rule a country. The only possible rule in a country can be the rule of law, independent of religion but based on common values and the Bill of Rights. Unfortunately, the majority of countries are a far way from this ideal situation.
Under the rule of law with a clear and enforceable separation of powers, fundamental Christians may be a nuisance but are not a threat.
EK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 706 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 345 times:
So could it be that religions were created for political ambitions? Like Marxism, communism etc....
Could it be that humans revolve their lives around their religion because they need to believe? If there was no religion from day one, would we still be living in the dark ages? Or would we be where we are now but with chaos in the world?
It seems to me that day by day, religion is becoming less of an importand aspect in a human's life than work, making money, securing a good life for himself and his family, travelling and so on. People from different religions, even those who seems to be in political difference as the world preceives them, they are conducting successful business transactions that is benefitting both parties. Is the Economy becoming our new religion? Globalization? Capitalism? Cause before we used to know where someone is from and what religion they follow..... now we only want to know if we can conduct successful business transactions with them, have fun as friends with them and so on..... Nationality and Religion are slowly becoming insignificant...
Does that mean they are slowly moving towards being forgotten?
ANCFlyer From United States, joined Nov 2004, 22999 posts, RR: 100 Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 339 times:
Quoting QR332 (Reply 10): I personally think that it is very narrow-minded to blame all conflicts and problems in the world on religion - it is human nature to fight, and if it wasn't over religion people would fight over land, resources, power, etc.
I beleive QR is correct.
If religion didn't exist, there'd still be fighting. Over something. Over someone. For some reason. It's the nature of the hunman beast.
That said: I believe that Religion plays a key role in the genesis of most conflicts in the Middle East region of the world today. That's not to say that Religion is the cause - but the fact that Sunni's kill Shiites because they are Shiites does speak volumes.
The Christians had their own problems as well . . . the Crusades is a fine example. Fortunately - after a couple thousand years - Christians learned that perhaps killing each other off in the name of religion wasn't the way to accomplish anything positive. Perhaps our Muslim brethren could take a page from history and have a look at that theory.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
Skidmarks From United Kingdom (England), joined Dec 2004, 6923 posts, RR: 58 Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 329 times:
No religion. Hmmm, there goes one excuse for thumping thy neighbour. Maybe then we could all get down to the basics and instead of blaming some invisible, omnipotent, non-existent being for our bloodthirsty attitude, admit we are thugs and that we enjoy kicking the shit out of each other.
EK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 706 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 282 times:
Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 17): No religion. Hmmm, there goes one excuse for thumping thy neighbour. Maybe then we could all get down to the basics and instead of blaming some invisible, omnipotent, non-existent being for our bloodthirsty attitude, admit we are thugs and that we enjoy kicking the shit out of each other.
Just a thought
Andy
I like that thought Andy. It would be interesting to see how all the clerics, priests and religious leaders would react when they get the news that Religion no longer exists?
But what ANCFlyer said is also true. If there was no religion, there would be something else to fight over... land, power, money etc.... Also what you said ANCFlyer is quite interesting. I truly believe that religious extremism will die out with time and with all the fuss around the Muslim World, the muslims have already started, and i being one of them, to speak out and say enough!!! We don't want anyone to fight in the name of our religion. Even though we have been saying that for a long time but being shutup... with time, we won't be shutup any more. It is becoming frustrating for many.... people want to live, do business, travel and so on!!! We get stereotyped all the time and i have started to hear alot of Muslims around me say they are frustrated with those who call themselves the Warriors of Allah or those who fight under the banner of Islam. It is funny that they don't go through the rough treatment we get as travellers or people who live in the Western World. The is a huge call for reform in the Muslim World all over and it is happening. But the problem is the West and other countries around the world, keep on giving the extremists attention... if they stop or engage them in secret.. things will become much better... but as long as the War is in the open public and attention is always going to the extremists, it will be difficult for us to do anything!!!
That being said, I also agree that with time, religion will become a personal practise and all the wars raged in it's name will seize... So will that be equal to having no religions at all?
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