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What If There Were No Religions In The World  
User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

I wonder how humans will cope if tomorrow it was decided that all religions will cease to exist!!! Will all wars and differences end? Will all the people stop stereotyping and start looking at a human within his or her deeds?

Will the extremists have no more excuses? Will there be Chaos like in the old ages? Will capitalism become the one religion people know? Will there be democracy all over? Will borders cease to exist?

I really wonder if our world can actually survive the notion of having no religions existing? Just curious.....

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2886 times:
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Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
I really wonder if our world can actually survive the notion of having no religions existing?

I really wonder if our world can actually survive having religions



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineThepilot From Canada, joined Jan 2010, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2883 times:

John Lennon asked the same question in "Imagine." Good song!


From YVR
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6738 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Will the extremists have no more excuses?

What's an extremist? Someone who attacks animal testing labs doesn't necessarily act out of religious conviction.


No excuses? There'll still be excuses that aren't based on religion. Having your land occupied by other people will probably be the commonest. Said people might have different religious affiliations (before there were no more religions), but religion isn't necessarily the primary issue, it's occupation.

You could argue that some of the more violent soccer fans who go out looking for fights with oppositon fans are extremists. No religion there.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9393 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
I wonder how humans will cope if tomorrow it was decided that all religions will cease to exist!!! Will all wars and differences end? Will all the

The person or the group of persons making that decision would be the dictators ruling such a world. The North Korea of today would be paradise and heaven in one compared to the World that would be if only one had to decide.

John Lennon may not have thought the lyrics of his song to the end, but it is the hymn of Communism and that is really not something desirable.

The livable world is the world of pluralistic societies where religions can exist side by side, not calling the followers of another religion "infidels" and not trying to spread their version of the book with the sword.

The livable world is the world where relkigion is a matter of privacy and not a matter of group pressure, the livable world is a world of tolerance and compassion.

A world without religion would not be a livable world.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13210 posts, RR: 77
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

One thing to get out of the way, is the idea that horrors such as Fascism, Nazism, Soviet, Chinese (Maoist) and sundry other versions of communism, are examples of atheism gone mad.

I see them as modern, mainly industrial age, religions.
We don't see this yet since their origins and consequences are still too recent. Marxism for example, with it's 19th Century origins, is yesterday compared to most established religions.

Before I get flamed on this, consider, did Marx or Engels ever forsee what would, in the following century, be done in their name?
I doubt it, had they, they'd likely not have bothered.

The negative aspects of religions, as we at least in the West see it, are due to extreme, distorted versions of established faiths, and not only Islam either.

Think of the almost god like icons of Soviet Russia, those huge images, everywhere, of Marx, of Lenin, then Stalin.
The doctrines, the articles of faith, the desire to have a hand in just about every aspect of the lives of those living under it.

There was, at least in the German Nazi Party, a link back to Paganism, they were not short of icons either, though in their short history, this tended towards just one, still living, until the 30th April 1945 that is.

I see Nazism as a latter day extreme crusade, Hitler himself saw it that way, he even indulged Himmler in his hopeless, obssessed, search for links back to an imagined, spritual past.
He had his SS castle as a cathederal, Hitler had his post war plans of Great Halls etc in Berlin, Numemburg Stadium being a stand in.

If this all seems a stretch, do not forget that we in the West, are living with post enlightenment Christanity, not under Middle Ages Papal or other 'godly' jackboots.
Long past is the era of real political power from the church.
But that was not always the case, not for much of Christian history.

Not that Nazism/Facism of any kind is capable of 'englightenment', it was too vile, too extreme, luckily, too short lived.
But Marx?
We all in the West live in Capitalist democracies, but even in the US, the hand of the state in certain aspects of welfare for the poorest, is way beyond what Marx saw in 19th Century industrial age Britain.
Which was none whatsoever.
And that was what inspired him in the first place.


User currently offlineJamesbuk From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 3968 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 3):
What's an extremist?

If that wasnt sarcasm (not thinking properly today  Smile) an extremist is a "nicer" word for terrorist as they go to extremes to achieve there goals.

The world would be better in my opinion but alot more people would be depressed as people need something to believe as some cant just simply believe life is the only thing there is.

Rgds --James--



You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 5):
Before I get flamed on this, consider, did Marx or Engels ever forsee what would, in the following century, be done in their name?
I doubt it, had they, they'd likely not have bothered.

Certainly. For one thing, Marx never envisaged a country like Russia adopting (in name anyway, in reality they never did) his ethos; he viewed the country most likely to move towards a revolution as Britain, the leading power of the age.

The view that Marxism is fundamentally evil is entirely wrong; Marx never remotely advocated the kind of totalitarian state that resulted.



She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2409 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2841 times:

The world would be a much better place without religion.

User currently offlineThom@s From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 11953 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Imagine there's no countries
it isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religions too.


Thom@s



"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

I personally think that it is very narrow-minded to blame all conflicts and problems in the world on religion - it is human nature to fight, and if it wasn't over religion people would fight over land, resources, power, etc. Lets not forget that Stalin, who was arguably the 20th century's most brutal dictator, did not have any religious beliefs.

Even what might appear to be conflicts fueled by religion today are not; the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, for example, is a purely political issue.

Religion has done the world a lot of good, it has moved the world forward and it has given us morals that we would not have without it - it guides billions of people and is by no means evil or the root of evil. The most recent dictator which was evidence of this is Saddam, who prayed every now and then for PR but was secular; he still persecuted the Kurds and Shi'aas not because of their beliefs, but because of power.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 5):


do not forget that we in the West, are living with post enlightenment Christanity

Maybe in the UK...here in the US the fundies keep growing and growing and growing.

We're in the "Back to Salem" phase of Christianity. Only instead of witches, gays and lesbians are the main target.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Will all wars and differences end? Will all the people stop stereotyping and start looking at a human within his or her deeds?

No, and No

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
I really wonder if our world can actually survive the notion of having no religions existing?

EVENTUALLY.

As much as I like the idea of abolishing religion, there are several problems, not the least of which is telling people to stop believing what they were taught since birth. The next problem is that the apparent immediacy of your proposal will never work with PEOPLE. People en mass can't deal with change, they like to know that a+b=c and they don't want to complicate it. The next problem is people aren't just going to up and forget history. Even if all the Palistinians and Jews rebuked their religions tomorrow they will never forget as a people the things they have done to eachother in the past.

If we don't blow eachother to hell and nothing like an asteroid or what not ends us in the interim, it's entirely possible that religion as we know it will be delegated to a VERY small minority within the next 1,100 years. I'm not optimistic we will make it that long, but if we do I think the evidence will be overwhelming that religion is  redflag .


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9393 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2779 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 5):
One thing to get out of the way, is the idea that horrors such as Fascism, Nazism, Soviet, Chinese (Maoist) and sundry other versions of communism, are examples of atheism gone mad.

I see them as modern, mainly industrial age, religions.
We don't see this yet since their origins and consequences are still too recent. Marxism for example, with it's 19th Century origins, is yesterday compared to most established religions.

You are exactly right with what you are saying. It does not matter what it is called, Fascism, Nazism, Communism, they are all pseudo religions which can exist only without competition.

Such societies can never be pluralistic. It is only logic, that a world without religion would be ruled by a pseudo religion, whatever it may be called.

Communism had the vision of world rule, it failed because failure is a build in part of the ideology, all people are NOT equal and most are not so stupid to work when others do nothing but have the same benefits. Marxism, Communism can only be brought upon mankind by force. That is where it eventually fails, besides that it takes imagination away and a communist society does not have entreprenours who carry the cart.

Let there be as many religions as people can dream of and want to follow but never have a religion rule a country. The only possible rule in a country can be the rule of law, independent of religion but based on common values and the Bill of Rights. Unfortunately, the majority of countries are a far way from this ideal situation.

Under the rule of law with a clear and enforceable separation of powers, fundamental Christians may be a nuisance but are not a threat.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineCedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):
Will all wars and differences end?

wars existed before religions !
Alex!!!



Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2773 times:

So could it be that religions were created for political ambitions? Like Marxism, communism etc....

Could it be that humans revolve their lives around their religion because they need to believe? If there was no religion from day one, would we still be living in the dark ages? Or would we be where we are now but with chaos in the world?

It seems to me that day by day, religion is becoming less of an importand aspect in a human's life than work, making money, securing a good life for himself and his family, travelling and so on. People from different religions, even those who seems to be in political difference as the world preceives them, they are conducting successful business transactions that is benefitting both parties. Is the Economy becoming our new religion? Globalization? Capitalism? Cause before we used to know where someone is from and what religion they follow..... now we only want to know if we can conduct successful business transactions with them, have fun as friends with them and so on..... Nationality and Religion are slowly becoming insignificant...

Does that mean they are slowly moving towards being forgotten?


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2767 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
I personally think that it is very narrow-minded to blame all conflicts and problems in the world on religion - it is human nature to fight, and if it wasn't over religion people would fight over land, resources, power, etc.

I beleive QR is correct.

If religion didn't exist, there'd still be fighting. Over something. Over someone. For some reason. It's the nature of the hunman beast.

That said: I believe that Religion plays a key role in the genesis of most conflicts in the Middle East region of the world today. That's not to say that Religion is the cause - but the fact that Sunni's kill Shiites because they are Shiites does speak volumes.

The Christians had their own problems as well . . . the Crusades is a fine example. Fortunately - after a couple thousand years - Christians learned that perhaps killing each other off in the name of religion wasn't the way to accomplish anything positive. Perhaps our Muslim brethren could take a page from history and have a look at that theory.


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2757 times:

No religion. Hmmm, there goes one excuse for thumping thy neighbour. Maybe then we could all get down to the basics and instead of blaming some invisible, omnipotent, non-existent being for our bloodthirsty attitude, admit we are thugs and that we enjoy kicking the shit out of each other.

Just a thought Big grin

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2740 times:

I think religion has been, more or less, a positive factor of human evolution.


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2710 times:

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 17):
No religion. Hmmm, there goes one excuse for thumping thy neighbour. Maybe then we could all get down to the basics and instead of blaming some invisible, omnipotent, non-existent being for our bloodthirsty attitude, admit we are thugs and that we enjoy kicking the shit out of each other.

Just a thought

Andy

I like that thought Andy. It would be interesting to see how all the clerics, priests and religious leaders would react when they get the news that Religion no longer exists?

But what ANCFlyer said is also true. If there was no religion, there would be something else to fight over... land, power, money etc.... Also what you said ANCFlyer is quite interesting. I truly believe that religious extremism will die out with time and with all the fuss around the Muslim World, the muslims have already started, and i being one of them, to speak out and say enough!!! We don't want anyone to fight in the name of our religion. Even though we have been saying that for a long time but being shutup... with time, we won't be shutup any more. It is becoming frustrating for many.... people want to live, do business, travel and so on!!! We get stereotyped all the time and i have started to hear alot of Muslims around me say they are frustrated with those who call themselves the Warriors of Allah or those who fight under the banner of Islam. It is funny that they don't go through the rough treatment we get as travellers or people who live in the Western World. The is a huge call for reform in the Muslim World all over and it is happening. But the problem is the West and other countries around the world, keep on giving the extremists attention... if they stop or engage them in secret.. things will become much better... but as long as the War is in the open public and attention is always going to the extremists, it will be difficult for us to do anything!!!

That being said, I also agree that with time, religion will become a personal practise and all the wars raged in it's name will seize... So will that be equal to having no religions at all?


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
I personally think that it is very narrow-minded to blame all conflicts and problems in the world on religion - it is human nature to fight, and if it wasn't over religion people would fight over land, resources, power, etc.

Spot on - a minuscule number, if any, of the wars ever fought were fought for truly religious reasons, even so called 'religious wars'. In the end, those that orchestrated those wars, did it for political and resource reasons, only using religion as a cover.

Quoting EK156 (Reply 15):
So could it be that religions were created for political ambitions? Like Marxism, communism etc....

Could it be that humans revolve their lives around their religion because they need to believe? If there was no religion from day one, would we still be living in the dark ages? Or would we be where we are now but with chaos in the world?

Humans as a mass are curious people, but at the same time we need a sense of order. So we ask "why", but aren't comfortable if there isn't an answer. Religion, from the earliest Neanderthal to today, is an attempt to provide the "why", so that we can feel certain and move on. I don't think its possible to separate human societal evolution and religion, anymore than you can separate living and breathing.

Quoting EK156 (Reply 19):
We get stereotyped all the time and i have started to hear alot of Muslims around me say they are frustrated with those who call themselves the Warriors of Allah or those who fight under the banner of Islam.

EK, I've got to tell you, that's one of the most positive things I've heard in awhile. Keep speaking out, make it known that not only are you frustrated, but you will no longer accept these acts being done in the name of Muslims/Islam/Arabs/etc..



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Def Wars will reduce by 80%  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21467 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Excellent post, GDB, as usual!

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
I really wonder if our world can actually survive having religions

I think it's a bit like measles - it will pass...!  mischievous 

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 6):
an extremist is a "nicer" word for terrorist as they go to extremes to achieve there goals.

No. Some extremists resort to terrorism, but not all by far. It's a different concept.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
I personally think that it is very narrow-minded to blame all conflicts and problems in the world on religion

Indeed - many conflicts merely use religion as a pretense.

Quoting EK156 (Reply 15):
It seems to me that day by day, religion is becoming less of an importand aspect in a human's life than work, making money, securing a good life for himself and his family, travelling and so on.



Quoting EK156 (Reply 15):
Does that mean they are slowly moving towards being forgotten?

I think they'll rather be transformed into something new. The old-style relgions will indeed continue to weaken and fade away, but most of their essence will continue in different form.

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 17):
No religion. Hmmm, there goes one excuse for thumping thy neighbour. Maybe then we could all get down to the basics and instead of blaming some invisible, omnipotent, non-existent being for our bloodthirsty attitude, admit we are thugs and that we enjoy kicking the shit out of each other.

I think there's a lot of truth in that.

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 17):
Just a thought

Yeah. And you don't enjoy watching the normally ensuing fight at all...! Big grin


In my view relgions have had (and to some degree still have) a certain transitional function in the evolution of mankind.

Even our pre-human ancestors have probably been social animals, and group cohesion has certainly been a survival advantage.

When the capability of speech and thus the communication, standardization, preservation and tradition of ideas became possible, people began to create belief systems which basically served as a container for the beliefs about the physical worls, the "ground rules" of the community and the group cohesion glue, all in one.

Political rule and religious ideology were often identified and personified in the same individuals; And possessing a strong ideology which "worked" well to preserve the community was again a survival advantage. That is probably one of the reasons why some communities grew and became bigger and stronger while others died out.

Both the development of large, complex states with functional administrations and the invention of the scientific method for the objectified analysis of the physical world and the building of "working" theories about it began changing the game, however.

The superstitious ideas about the physical world were increasingly being proved wrong by scientific research and were supplanted by the increasing body of scientific knowledge.

At the same time, the nation state took over from the earlier tribal structures and religious laws were increasingly replaced by national (or regional) codified laws which underwent their own evolution, at least in part according to their relative practicability and other pragmatic aspects.

Philosophy began competing with religion for people's ideas about themselves on a more personal level. Instead of superstitions about imaginary deities or spirits, abstract ideas of good and evil and the common good began making inroads.

Of course these processes were not absolute, and there were many setbacks on the way; In the past centuries, religions have (often violently) resisted their progressive loss of control, and deviant incarnations of alternative ideologies have exploited the old susceptibilities of the human mind for their own purposes. Old superstitions are still being used as a cover for actual social, political and cultural fights.

But the general tendencies remain.


It's always been my conviction that people have invested and instilled some of the best ideas and intentions in their religions in the past; While the superstitious nonsense should certainly be taken with a huge helping of salt, much of the philosophy and some of the rules should in fact be preserved. But the way religions have "worked" in the past simply cannot survive in the long run except as a niche oddity, but not as a major factor in our societies.

I think the point is not that "religions should die" - I think it is more important to salvage as much positives as possible from the religions and carefully transition to the next phase of our awareness.

It is very well possible that the traditional religions will still exist in the future, even if just by name; But the idea of (multiple!!) lone and all-powerful deities micro-managing the planet will progressively die. It is not what had made the religions of the past valuable, and the sooner people stop the ideological superstitions, the better.


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